Tired of hearing about our debt!!

[busymama77]

I get to the point some days where I have an overwhelming feeling of anger when DH starts talking about our debt - what we can't buy right now - how we were 'almost there', but his car needed a brand new, $1,200 clutch!!
I hardly ever do anything for myself and when I do, I keep it as cheap as I possibly can and even then, I feel guilty spending the money even when we have it at the time!

How can I get past this and realize that I'm not the only one and that we'll 'get there' again?!

[Denvergirlie]

I would recommend flipping that anger, and attacking the debt. You hate hearing about the debt, so get mad at it, attack it, make it go away so it will never darken your door again.

I've been there myself. I hated the fact that I was broke, beyond broke, but I also accepted responsibility that I was the person that had lived beyond my means and now had to sacrafice to pay it off and change my behavior to make sure I am not in that poistion again.

I do understand and hope that you don't take my comments as an attack on you, but if you really hate that debt, then get mad! Get angry, get focused so you never have to go thru this again and that you can get out of it as fast as possible.

However, If you can, I would leave some "mad money" in your budget. $20 a week can make a big difference if it allows you a take out pizza or trip to the thrift store or whatever.

best of luck!

[beebalmmama]

Just wanted to say that I know how you feel. It is frustrating when things are financially so tight. Dh and I probably have most of our stress unleashed on eachother when money is tight. Which is currently is right now and considering I'm going back to school next year, will be tight for the forseeable future.

He sometimes gets annoyed at my budget, "because a man at my age with a professional job should be able to go buy a latte!" Well maybe, but we can't afford those little luxuries right now.

You're not alone!

[2lilsweetfoxes]

I understand. We are desperately trying to whittle down our debt. Last month 1) DH's grandma dies, so he flies out to her funeral and so everyone can meet the baby (around $600, which we have, but we don't, if you know what I mean. I encouraged the trip, but if we'd bought the tickets 2 days earlier, they'd have been half the price. Yep, hemming and hawing over whether or not to go cost us.) Then, a few days ago, his (only) pair of glasses--the frame breaks. So, he needs new glasses. I was able to do an emergency repair with superglue, but that isn't going to last. We go to the optical shop and they are having a bogo sale. Great! He can get a couple pairs of glasses. He picks out some sunglasses (which are $185 total, but he needed some for sports) and gets another pair of glasses, free. (You can get a pair of glasses there for $40, basic, no frills). If I'd needed the glasses, I'd have gotten 2 of the $40 pairs. I feel guilty anytime I spend money on myself--my jeans have holes in the knees, I haven't bought any in the last 5 years, my shirts are practically rags, I haven't bought a new dress since who knows when (I wear a uniform to work). Speaking of work, I have to put together my dress uniform because I have an inspection coming up, which will cost $$, but I feel guilty about spending the money. Oh, and my computer needs to be fixed, but I can't justify spending the money on it.

[HollyBearsMom]

It is hard when your scrimp and save to stay on top of the debt and then feel like its 2 steps forward and 3 steps back.

Do you and your husband have a budget, I mean a real budget that breaks down on your fixed expenses (rent/mortgage, utilities, etc) and non fixed (groceries, etc) so you know truly what is available to spend each week/month/quarter?

If not doing so might make you feel more in control and clearly illustrate to your husband what a huge hurtle an unexpected expense (like a new clutch) can do to it.

But it might also show you that you do have a some wiggle room for yourself (and some for your husband too) that would not dramatically impact your ability to pay down debt and save money. Remember the adage about paying yourself first.

And if you already do a budget can you take another look and adjust priorities?

What is important to you for you? Takeout pizza? A movie rental? High end coffee beans? a manicure? Ok so how much does it cost? Maybe you'll find you can do it once a week, maybe you'll find you can do it once a month, maybe once a quarter.

But the key is to build it into your budget so that you don’t feel guilty! Even when you have money its hard to spend it if you are nervous but if you have allowed for it and planned for it I find its easier to "treat" myself (to new underwear, LOL)

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by Denvergirlie

However, If you can, I would leave some "mad money" in your budget. $20 a week can make a big difference if it allows you a take out pizza or trip to the thrift store or whatever.

Heck, $20 a MONTH would even be worth a pedi or a coffee and pastry at Borders while browsing through magazines--ya know?

You might also have a chat with your dh and the two of you together start using different "language" to frame your situation so that you feel more positive about the sacrifices and struggles you're facing. Instead of focusing on what's wrong, focus on what you're reaching for and talk about THAT. Really FEEL it. Make a small vision board (even just a few pics on a sheet of copy paper on the fridge--or even a single picture) that you guys can look at and know that THIS is why you're doing the things you do.

Focus on the benefit--not the struggle. It's really hard and it's so easy to be discouraged and down about it because it can be really overwhelming.

Hugs to you...

[busymama77]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom

It is hard when your scrimp and save to stay on top of the debt and then feel like its 2 steps forward and 3 steps back.

Do you and your husband have a budget, I mean a real budget that breaks down on your fixed expenses (rent/mortgage, utilities, etc) and non fixed (groceries, etc) so you know truly what is available to spend each week/month/quarter?

If not doing so might make you feel more in control and clearly illustrate to your husband what a huge hurtle an unexpected expense (like a new clutch) can do to it.

But it might also show you that you do have a some wiggle room for yourself (and some for your husband too) that would not dramatically impact your ability to pay down debt and save money. Remember the adage about paying yourself first.

And if you already do a budget can you take another look and adjust priorities?

What is important to you for you? Takeout pizza? A movie rental? High end coffee beans? a manicure? Ok so how much does it cost? Maybe you'll find you can do it once a week, maybe you'll find you can do it once a month, maybe once a quarter.

But the key is to build it into your budget so that you don’t feel guilty! Even when you have money its hard to spend it if you are nervous but if you have allowed for it and planned for it I find its easier to "treat" myself (to new underwear, LOL)

We have NEVER had a budget and have NEVER sat down to actually make one out. We pay all of our bills online and whenever I get frustrated like this, he thinks I'm taking it out on him and says 'you can take a look at the bills any time you want!' No, I want to know how a family of 4 goes through over $7k a month in income (there's daycare for 2 kids, groceries, credit cards (2), a few Target trips, utilities - all of the MAIN stuff) and still lives paycheck to paycheck!?!
I've requested several times to sit down and make a budget. A set NUMBER of what I can spend this week and so on.... it's never happened. I think it's time for me to really put my foot down on this so that I know what's going on!
$20 a week?! Yes, I could see having a couple of lattes with that and a nice lunch out by myself!!

[busymama77]

And when he pays bills, he pays what has come in with the money that we have on hand and 'budgets out' the daycare expense for the next two weeks until I get paid and then pays the other bills. It's a budget that is done in his head, and not on paper.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by busymama77

We have NEVER had a budget and have NEVER sat down to actually make one out. We pay all of our bills online and whenever I get frustrated like this, he thinks I'm taking it out on him and says 'you can take a look at the bills any time you want!' No, I want to know how a family of 4 goes through over $7k a month in income (there's daycare for 2 kids, groceries, credit cards (2), a few Target trips, utilities - all of the MAIN stuff) and still lives paycheck to paycheck!?!
I've requested several times to sit down and make a budget. A set NUMBER of what I can spend this week and so on.... it's never happened. I think it's time for me to really put my foot down on this so that I know what's going on!
$20 a week?! Yes, I could see having a couple of lattes with that and a nice lunch out by myself!!

Originally Posted by busymama77

And when he pays bills, he pays what has come in with the money that we have on hand and 'budgets out' the daycare expense for the next two weeks until I get paid and then pays the other bills. It's a budget that is done in his head, and not on paper.

Okay... all of this is a little scary. What would happen if something (heaven forbid) happened to him...?

Do you think he's trying to hide something? Or do you think he just seriously doesn't "get" that this is an issue? I'm thinking that if you two argue about it, he MUST get that it's an issue...? What exactly is his objection to writing out the budget so that you can understand your family's finances? Has he given you a reason when you bring it up?

And really, can't you just look at the last few months of bank statements and cancelled check images and see where the money is going?

[2lilsweetfoxes]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

Okay... all of this is a little scary. What would happen if something (heaven forbid) happened to him...?

Do you think he's trying to hide something? Or do you think he just seriously doesn't "get" that this is an issue? I'm thinking that if you two argue about it, he MUST get that it's an issue...? What exactly is his objection to writing out the budget so that you can understand your family's finances? Has he given you a reason when you bring it up?And really, can't you just look at the last few months of bank statements and cancelled check images and see where the money is going?

I remember several months ago I lived in fear that my DH would find out about our real financial situation. Which was: we were 1 step away from bankruptcy. I was robbing Peter to pay Paul. Using credit cards he didn't know we had, or if he knew about them, he didn't know they were in use. If he wanted something, he'd get it. I'd "find" the money somehow to pay for it so he wouldn't realize and then charge the gas and groceries or slowly drain the savings accounts, which meant I couldn't pay down the credit cards, which were like within $100 of being maxed at all times. It got to the point I'd switched the passwords on all the accounts and stopped paper statements. (Finally, something occurred and I laid it all out on the table and we are working together to solve the issue. Maybe not as 'gazelle' as Dave Ramsey, but we are loosely following it--have an emergency fund in place, and are attacking the debts one at a time and snowballing it. The glasses I mentioned upthread were cash-flowed from the October snowball, bought them instead of paying on the CC and the plane tickets were paid with a credit card that will be paid off shortly so that we could use our airline miles.)

Why did I hide it for so long? (it took me nearly 2 years to come clean--and then only when I was forced to) Honestly, I don't know. I could say that he has a temper and when things don't go his way, or as he thinks they should, he literally blows his top. Maybe it was to keep some semblance of peace.

[busymama77]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

Okay... all of this is a little scary. What would happen if something (heaven forbid) happened to him...?

Do you think he's trying to hide something? Or do you think he just seriously doesn't "get" that this is an issue? I'm thinking that if you two argue about it, he MUST get that it's an issue...? What exactly is his objection to writing out the budget so that you can understand your family's finances? Has he given you a reason when you bring it up?

And really, can't you just look at the last few months of bank statements and cancelled check images and see where the money is going?

Um, yeah, I know. I don't even know the sign on or password for our online banking. He's 'told' it to me before, but I have no clue what it is. I'm not trying to bash him, it's just that it blows my mind that he's constantly worried about money, but yet he's never actually budgeted what we can spend and what we can't. He sees it all going towards bills and that's it. He doesn't set aside 'fun money'. He thinks that going to Target is a big deal when it's always things that we need and I always buy on sale and use coupons!!!
I don't think he's hiding anything. He's not the type. Unless it's a surprise or something...but still, how could we afford the damn surprise when I can't buy a latte at Starbuck's right now?! KWIM?

[cristina47454]

My husband feels the same way you do He's SO TIRED of hearing about it. But he works such long hours, that the last thing he wants to do is sit down and look at our finances, so I feel like TALKING about our finances at the breakfast table is the only way he'll understand where we are. And also, I talk about it so much because I'm always thinking about it and I'm trying to download information and get buy-in. I don't work outside of the home and I feel like taking on the budget is my way of "contributing" - esp since I'm the one doing all the grocery shopping, running around with the kids, etc. I NEED to know where things stand so I know what I can and can't afford (can't afford much of anything these days). And since he doesn't know where things stand from week to week (although he knows how much we need to pay out every month) - my talking about it lets him know that this is NOT the week for an oil change and a haircut. KWIM?

I think you need to take a proactive stance and force yourself to get more involved. If you knew where the money was going, you'd feel more comfortable spending/saving/whatever the case may be. When I first started this (we had a decent income back then) I couldn't understand how we were living paycheck to paycheck either...but then I realized "Holy Crap! All that eating out adds up!" Or "Holy Crap! I didn't know I filling up so often!" I found that although I "knew" how much I was swiping the debit card, I wasn't really "getting" how fast it all adds up by the end of the month. Imagine that! Thank goodness I had the tools in place when hard times actually hit!

[heatherdeg]

Well, Target can totally be a big deal if the money is tight even if you ARE buying on sale. I grocery shopped clearance and loss-leader items only and was blowing out my grocery budget doing it.

And if you're raking in $7k/month net (heck, even if it's gross and you have a ton of deductions leaving you with about $4,500/mo), unless you have an outrageous mortgage and taxes--I'm with you... wth?

If you think he has nothing to actually hide, this is a battle I would choose to fight. It's a pretty big deal. Something's not right--either the financial picture or his perspective on the financial picture; but something's gotta give here because that is seriously no way to live. And if you're NETTING $7k/month... all the worse.

And with all due respect, plenty of "not the types" have dumbfounded their friends and families on multiple topics. Wonder if 2lilsweetfoxes spouse thought the same of her (no offense 2lilsweetfoxes!! Just trying to point out the potential here).

Get the password from him, print your last year of statements, and start picking through them. Maybe it would be best to get a handle on reality before trying to argue with him to do something that you truly CAN do yourself (build a budget based on the last year of spending).

[busymama77]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg

Well, Target can totally be a big deal if the money is tight even if you ARE buying on sale. I grocery shopped clearance and loss-leader items only and was blowing out my grocery budget doing it.

And if you're raking in $7k/month net (heck, even if it's gross and you have a ton of deductions leaving you with about $4,500/mo), unless you have an outrageous mortgage and taxes--I'm with you... wth?
If you think he has nothing to actually hide, this is a battle I would choose to fight. It's a pretty big deal. Something's not right--either the financial picture or his perspective on the financial picture; but something's gotta give here because that is seriously no way to live. And if you're NETTING $7k/month... all the worse.

And with all due respect, plenty of "not the types" have dumbfounded their friends and families on multiple topics. Wonder if 2lilsweetfoxes spouse thought the same of her (no offense 2lilsweetfoxes!! Just trying to point out the potential here).

Get the password from him, print your last year of statements, and start picking through them. Maybe it would be best to get a handle on reality before trying to argue with him to do something that you truly CAN do yourself (build a budget based on the last year of spending).

I agree. Our biggest expense each month is a family loan (from his parents that includes some money that we borrowed at one time and his car payment), the mortgage (taxes are already figured in to it), my car payment, daycare, and credit cards.
Family loan - $750
Car Payment - $310 (will be paid off in January)
Mortgage - $1,500
Daycare (monthly) - $1,600
Credit cards - he usually pays around $500 or so on each so, $1,000

$5,160 give or take a couple of hundred each month. Factor in gas, electric, car insurance, student loan, groceries - our other needs - and that total could get up to $5,500. So, we have $1,500 left over each month. Where's that going???

His car is paid for by his company with a car allowance and so is my gas card. We hardly EVER go out to eat - I mean, take out once or twice a month. Buying clothes for the kids - consignment or garage sales or really, really good sales with coupons. Clothes for me - $40 a month tops.

Sooooo much left over still even after all of that. I just need to see it all with my own two eyes. All of this mentioned is just from what I see coming in as far as bills go and I'm usually the one going to Target and buying the kids clothes. It's all so mind boggling.

[cristina47454]

So you're saying his paycheck is $7k/month? Health insurance, taxes, social security, 401k...all that fun stuff...are already taken out when he gets that income? My utilities easily run $400 month and I live in a smallish house ($85 for electric, $85 for phone/internet, $100 for cell phone, $125 for oil heat). Maybe look at all the smaller things and see how they ACTUALLY add up.

It wouldn't be a reach that you are spending $400/mo on groceries, eating out twice a month $100, student loans (?), copays/pharmacy (?), life insurance (?), clothing $50, haircuts (?), gifts (?)...does he buy lunch at work? How do you spend weekends (seems like "fun" has a way of costing money. Parking, admissions, snacks...)?...Maybe he is putting a certain amount in savings every month?

It just always shock me how even when I think Phew! A good month! Extra expenses pop up to eat it all up.

I'm just saying, that money does have a way of getting eaten up. Target used to be a KILLER for me. If you add up all the little categories that you are lumping together as "other needs" you might be surprised.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by busymama77

$5,160 give or take a couple of hundred each month. Factor in gas, electric, car insurance, student loan, groceries - our other needs - and that total could get up to $5,500.

You seem to be saying that gas, electric, student loans, car insurance and groceries for a family of four would only be $340/month. That can't be right. Just our electricity and car insurance come to almost that much.

So, we have $1,500 left over each month. Where's that going???

What about phones, cable, internet service, etc?

Your overall situation sounds similar to ours...our costs are higher in a couple places, and lower in others. We have a lower net income...but we don't have daycare, which roughly offsets the difference.

Money gets eaten. Groceries, phones, misc. kid expenses (ds1's extracurriculars, a new hat/jacket for dd2, Halloween costumes, gifts for birthday parties they attend, markers, crayons, paper, etc.), cable fees, internet fees, dental fees, eyeglasses, my choir fees...it adds up. I've done a budget a few times, but I find myself surprised by school fees, which always screw me up...and our $1700 body shop bill didn't help.

Life is expensive and it can be a lot of work to stay on top of the money...especially when communication is poor.

[heatherdeg]

Okay... so let's say $7k net. You said:

Family loan - $750
Car Payment - $310 (will be paid off in January)
Mortgage - $1,500
Daycare (monthly) - $1,600
Credit cards - he usually pays around $500 or so on each so, $1,000

Assuming you're paying insurance & taxes in your mortgage payment, right here you're shelling out $5,160/month.

That leaves $1,840/month.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say your groceries are running easily $500/month with paper products included and that assumes you never pay more than $3/lb for meat and are not buying entirely organic. Add two REALLY cheap take-outs for the month and you're at $560.

And let's ballpark gas, electric, water, (garbage? sewer?) and cable at another $340/mo (which is way less than I would be paying for all of that).

Those two alone are $900. So $1840-900 = $940 left.

Okay... now maybe cell phones? $100? $840 left.

Target, Walmart and clothing alone could easily eat up $200 of that. $640 left.

Gifts? License renewal? Library fees? Renting a movie? A printer cartridge? Supplies for a school project? Or do you give kids lunch or spending money? That could be $100/month. $540

Of course, ALL HYPOTHETICAL, but you see where this is headed...

You need to know where the money is going since you're helping to spend it and he needs for you to be "in the know" about wth your money sitch is. There's no reason for you not to understand what's going on and there's no reason for him to avoid you knowing.

It's only going to get better when you're both aware of what's going on.

[GuildJenn]

You guys do need to do a budget but it sounds to me like you're suffering from "it sounds rich" syndrome.

$7k can be a lot - and as a PP posted, it can also be not very much. I didn't see (in the PP's math) gas for the cars, car insurance, health insurance (if not deducted already), life insurance, savings, gym, student loan...

You need to know before you can judge. You say he told you the password but you forgot - so you need to ask him for more specifics. You can do this.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by busymama77

I've requested several times to sit down and make a budget. A set NUMBER of what I can spend this week and so on.... it's never happened. I think it's time for me to really put my foot down on this so that I know what's going on!

Dh was like this when we were first married...now I pay the bills. Take all the bills, get put on the accounts and get the passwords, then you make a paper budget and pay bills with his input. $7000 a month would be rich in south Texas, but our life lived in NY would probably cost that much.

[MrsTittlemouse]

Knowledge is Power.

I was in the dark for years and I took the entire month of October to figure out where we are at. You can do it. I am still taking baby steps around our finances, but I am really really happy to be aware of our situation!