what do you think of this waiver? (sent from dr office)

[titania8]

our new dr office called and said the insurance company 'wants' my youngest to get some shots. i informed the lady that we don't vax so she wants me to sign and return a waiver (i had her mail it to me). reading over it i'm not sure about it, though it's not like others i've seen where it says basically i acknowledge my kid will die if i don't vaccinate them.

so here it is:

REFUSAL (WAIVER) OF CARE AND/OR PREVENTIVE MEASURES

REFUSAL OF SERVICES RELEASE

(X) i understand what has been explained to me about my (the patient's) current medical problem(s) and / or recommended preventative services. (this is checked by the staff)

(X) i realize that refusing treatment/preventive services at this time could make my (the patient's) condition worsen and/or cause additional problems to develop. (this one is also checked by the staff)

( ) i release all of those currently involved in my care (including my primary care physician and his/her staff) from any liability (legal action) regarding the eventual outcome of the medical problem or preventative health intervention/screening for which i (the patient) am refusing treatment. ( i find it interesting this isn't checked)

written on this form is 'refusal for immunizations'.



i take a bit of issue with the use of 'immunizations' over 'vaccinations', so i'll probably correct that and date and initial it. but also, i take issue with the second point, since i don't believe any conditions are going to develop or worsen. i know there are some refusal forms out there, maybe i'll find one and staple it with this and send it back. we're new to this office so i don't know how they would react. not that it matters much, but i don't want to be a huge PITA, since it took us 9 months to find a new dr.

thoughts? links to 'good' refusal forms?

[2xy]

Honestly, I don't see how it causes you any harm to sign it.

Point #2 says "and/OR" cause problems to develop. In their eyes, if you refuse the varicella vaccine and your kid gets chicken pox, that is a problem which develops from lack of vaccination.

They are just covering their butts. People like to sue doctors, nurses, and other medical staff.

I've worked in many medical offices, both in the civilian and military community. The words "immunization" and "vaccination" are interchangeable in the world of medicine. Correcting their terminology will most like be met either with a lack of understanding or an eyeroll.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I wish the one I signed at the kids ped. office was worded like that. I wouldnt think twice about signing it.

[titania8]

sounds good to me! thanks for the perspective. its certainly easier on me to leave it as is, lol!

[Turquesa]

It's the "cause additional problems to develop" part that I'd take issue with, especially since the vaxes could do that as well. I'd strike through it, write VOID, and initial it.

[caned & able]

But, Turquesa, that is not permitted!

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by titania8

our new dr office called and said the insurance company 'wants' my youngest to get some shots. i informed the lady that we don't vax so she wants me to sign and return a waiver (i had her mail it to me). reading over it i'm not sure about it, though it's not like others i've seen where it says basically i acknowledge my kid will die if i don't vaccinate them.

so here it is:

REFUSAL (WAIVER) OF CARE AND/OR PREVENTIVE MEASURES

REFUSAL OF SERVICES RELEASE

(X) i understand what has been explained to me about my (the patient's) current medical problem(s) and / or recommended preventative services. (this is checked by the staff)

(X) i realize that refusing treatment/preventive services at this time could make my (the patient's) condition worsen and/or cause additional problems to develop. (this one is also checked by the staff)

( ) i release all of those currently involved in my care (including my primary care physician and his/her staff) from any liability (legal action) regarding the eventual outcome of the medical problem or preventative health intervention/screening for which i (the patient) am refusing treatment. ( i find it interesting this isn't checked)

written on this form is 'refusal for immunizations'.



i take a bit of issue with the use of 'immunizations' over 'vaccinations', so i'll probably correct that and date and initial it. but also, i take issue with the second point, since i don't believe any conditions are going to develop or worsen. i know there are some refusal forms out there, maybe i'll find one and staple it with this and send it back. we're new to this office so i don't know how they would react. not that it matters much, but i don't want to be a huge PITA, since it took us 9 months to find a new dr.

thoughts? links to 'good' refusal forms?

REFUSAL (WAIVER) OF CARE AND/OR PREVENTIVE MEASURES

REFUSAL OF SERVICES RELEASE

(X) i understand what has been explained to me about my (the patient's) recommended vaccinations.

(X)i realize that refusing treatment/preventive services at this time could make my (the patient's) condition worsen and/or cause additional problems to develop. (this one is also checked by the staff)
No way would I sign #2-- "and" or "and/or" you are admitting that your decision could cause harm. This is the "bad mommy" clause.

( ) i release all of those currently involved in my care (including my primary care physician and his/her staff) from any liability (legal action) regarding the refusal of vaccinations.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by 2xy

They are just covering their butts.

And not even that well. One reason, I presume, that the AAP form includes transmission to others as something one acknowledges having been told about is downstream liability.

Originally Posted by 2xy

I've worked in many medical offices, both in the civilian and military community. The words "immunization" and "vaccination" are interchangeable in the world of medicine. Correcting their terminology will most like be met either with a lack of understanding or an eyeroll.

This. Plus, it's a nuisance to be etymologically correct and try to remember which immunizations actually contain cow.

[titania8]

Originally Posted by Otto

And not even that well. One reason, I presume, that the AAP form includes transmission to others as something one acknowledges having been told about is downstream liability.



This. Plus, it's a nuisance to be etymologically correct and try to remember which immunizations actually contain cow.

uh...what does this mean?

[Fyrestorm]

I would start out by asking why the insurance company is recommending medical treatment for my child in the first place.

[titania8]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

I would start out by asking why the insurance company is recommending medical treatment for my child in the first place.

good point. they (the dr office) also called to say the insurance company wants our twins to have a well visit (they just turned 5). i feel a little harassed, tbh. i don't know if i should contact the dr office or the insurance company, since it sounds like the ins company is harassing the office, who is passing it onto us. our previous ins and dr office did not act like this, its all very new to me! i don't love it, i'll tell you that much. the dr herself is fine so i'm not looking for a new one, just getting a feel for how this operation is run, yk?

[Fyrestorm]

I would call the ins. co. and tell them to bug off. When they get a medical licence and you bring your child to them for services you may consider their advice - but in the mean while, they are there to pay the bills for services rendered by the HCP of your choice. Period.end.of.story.

Then call the Dr.s office and tell them that your ins. co. no longer needs a waiver of anything since you have informed them that your childs medical care is none of their business past paying the bills.

This should separate the wheat from the chaff and tell you if it was actually the ins. co. asking for it or the dr.s office using them as the fall guy.

Also - Our insurance company sends reminders to us at home - not to the doctors office.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by titania8

uh...what does this mean?

The 'vacc' in "vaccine" goes back to Latin "vaccula" ('heifer') and winds up tied to cowpox. The quarrel about the suggestively imprecatory nature of the word "immunization" is more recent.

[ETA.--And, yes, your insurer shouldn't be contacting you by proxy.]

[cappuccinosmom]

They are protecting themselves from lawsuits.

Whatever they may think of your decision, it is yours. All they want is your signature on something that says if your unvaxed child gets chickenpox, then develops pneumonia as a complication (and it is an unfortunate possible complication of chicken pox, though not very common), you're not going to sue them for not preventing it. That is the idea behind #2 in particular.

You have a right to make the medical decisions for your family, and to refuse "care". But most practices are bound by standards of care and certain protocols, and I would not take it too personally if they are trying to figure out a way to cover all the bases when someone steps out of the norm (same for well child visits). You may be a perfectly reasonable person and aware and willing to accept any possible risks of not following the norm, but others are not, and might refuse or just not care to do these standard things, and then turn around and sue the doctor/practice when something happens as a result.

[13Sandals]

And not even that well. One reason, I presume, that the AAP form includes transmission to others as something one acknowledges having been told about is downstream liability.

funny though - the AAP doesn't have a form to sign for those taking live vaccines that can result in transmission.

what do I think of that form? I wouldn't sign it. I wouldn't sign the AAP form either.

[kythe]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

I would start out by asking why the insurance company is recommending medical treatment for my child in the first place.

Insurances are always looking out for the bottom line. That is what they are there for, to pay for medical care. They see vaccines as cost-effective. If they fork out just a few dollars for "prevention", then they won't have to fork out hundreds or more on disease management.

What I question is, will the insurance pay for treatment of a disease that is considered vaccine-preventable? I'm not saying its likely your child will get sick, but if he does how will the doctor's office and insurance react?

I think the form itself is fine. It looks like a fairly typical waiver to me.

[ma2two]

How about this?

REFUSAL (WAIVER) OF VACCINES

REFUSAL OF SERVICES RELEASE

(X) i understand what has been explained to me about the recommended vaccines.

(X) I understand that there is a possibility my child could contract certain illnesses for which there are vaccines.

(X) i release all of those currently involved in my child's care (including the primary care physician and his/her staff) from any liability (legal action) if my child contracts one or more illnesses for which I have refused vaccination.

[blessedwithboys]

I just wrote up my own form that says "(Name of provider) has offered us vaccines today and we have declined" with lines on the bottom to sign and date at each visit. She was fine with it.

[titania8]

Originally Posted by ma2two

How about this?

REFUSAL (WAIVER) OF VACCINES

REFUSAL OF SERVICES RELEASE

(X) i understand what has been explained to me about the recommended vaccines.

(X) I understand that there is a possibility my child could contract certain illnesses for which there are vaccines.

(X) i release all of those currently involved in my child's care (including the primary care physician and his/her staff) from any liability (legal action) if my child contracts one or more illnesses for which I have refused vaccination.

i like this. thank you.

[Arduinna]

I don't even see why they want you to sign that, since the third one isn't checked and that really should be the one they care about the most.