Pottying Hell x2

[abomgardner417]

I will gladly accept any and all suggestions!!! I'm seriously going to lose it real soon here! My twin boys are 4 1/2 and we are STILL not potty trained. Let's start with twin #1. Was completely potty trained except at night a few months after turning 3. About nine months after that, he started leaking urine in his underpants, just little bits here and there and occasionally a full out accident. No accidents with pooping. I didn't think much of it, didn't make a big deal. He said it didn't hurt, but after a few weeks of this happening daily, I took him to the doc. The doc said he would be in pain if it was a UTI and said it sounded pyschological due to stress in the home (I'll go into that in a minute). He sent us to a counselor who was awful and was suggesting punishments as a solution. I smiled and nodded and never went back. I figured it would stop if we just went on as normal. Well, now here we are, almost 10 months later and this is still going on daily and now he's regressed to pooping in his pants too.

Twin #2 has no peeing problems other than he is still not dry at night. His problem is that he holds his poop until it gets so hard that it hurts him to go, which just causes him to be more scared to go so he holds it more and on and on. He'll hide and poop in his pants with no problem, but he refuses to go on the potty. We've seen the regular doc who sent us to a Ped GI doc who has had him on Miralax for the past four months. I never was real excited about the Miralax but I was desperate. He gets a ton of fiber, drinks a ton of water and poops everyday as long as I give him the Miralax, but if I stop it he starts holding it again.

Now to be fair, they've been through more than any 4yo should ever have to. We've moved 4 times in the 4 years they've been alive. I got a breast cancer diagnosis shortly after they turned 3. My stbx bailed on me during chemo. We've been physically separated for 9 mos and the boys still think that daddy is coming to live with us again someday. Add another change with preschool starting. They've had a lot to adjust to and I realize that, but jeez, they're 4.5!!

So like I said, I'll take any and all suggestions at this point, but I have to say, I feel like we've tried everything. I think I've done all the right things, and I'm ashamed to admit I've done all the wrong things too. Rewards, punishments, praising, yelling, threatening, shaming, DVDs, books, treats, candy, cookies, cakes, toys, trips on grandpa's boat, camp-outs at grandma's house...you name it, we've done it. At this point, we are back in pull-ups because I can't take washing 6-9 pairs of pants every day. They said they were afraid of monsters in the potty so we banished the monsters with a magic potion (food coloring!) and we have a "potty angel" - a little angel bell X-mas ornament - that we ring every time we go potty. They seem pretty excited to ring the angel, but not excited enough to stop the accidents.

Sorry for the long post, but can anyone please help??!!!

[abomgardner417]

Wow, it's that bad? Lol, just bumping up.

[skybluepink02]

I don't have any answers, but I wanted to let you know you were heard.

Could you go back to square one, temporarily? Reminders every half hour, physically putting them on the potty and sitting with them till they go, etc.

Like you said, you guys have been through a lot, and it could be that their minds are on other things. They may need some firming up in their minds of what, exactly, to do when they need to potty.

[pianojazzgirl]

I'm so sorry for all you've been through lately mama.

This isn't directly related to pottying, but one thing that occurs to me, is that yes, your boys have been through a lot in the past year and a half. You tried one counselor who was awful. Did you ever try to find a better counselor? Perhaps they both could benefit from seeing someone to help them work through everything that's gone on, and to help them gain some understanding of your separation.

I have no idea if that would help with the pottying issues, but it could be helpful in other ways.

In regards to the pottying. Hmmm... I guess the pp's idea of going back to square one seems better than anything else I can think of. Maybe even "reset" by taking a break from pottying for a few weeks. Just let them be in pull-ups, pee or poo in pull-ups, don't talk about pottying at all. Then have a big re-start where you start all over again as if they were potty learning for the first time. Do like the pp said and sit them on the potty at regular intervals and stay with them to keep them company (read books or whatever). I don't know - maybe it would work.

I'm curious: have you talked with their preschool teacher about it? What does she suggest? How does she deal with pottying while they're there? I think consistency between home and preschool is important.

[CherryBomb]

The only advice I have is to set a timer and take them every hour and a half (or whatever). This is the only thing that works with my 2.5 year old. She just does not care if she pees herself (she'll ask to poop in the potty most of the time, though). My 5 year old is disabled and she can ask to use the potty for urination, but not normally for bms, so with her I have to ask her frequently if she needs to poop, and if i think she does, I have her take a book and sit on the potty. She goes to Kindergarten, and they take her frequently there to keep her from having an accident.

[Mom2GCNJ]

Abomgardner417 I just wanted say I hear you. My little guy just turned four and like your boy #1, he was almost there at one point (so long ago I don't remember when :0) even to the point of staying dry through the night. Our family also went through some really difficult things. Toilet teaching went down hill fast through all of it.

So, long story short, our little guy still wears pull-ups a lot and I'm happy to just let it be that way. At the risk of sounding lazy, for our family it just isn't worth the stress of having to deal with messy accidents. So at home he wears undies and does pretty well most days. When we leave the house he wears pull-ups which sometimes stay dry - sometimes not. He always wears pull-ups at night and is rarely dry in the morning. He does have his bms willingly in the toilet which I am grateful for. Over-all my attitude about pull-ups is they allow us to celebrate the triumphs without feeling overwhelmed by the set-backs (I've found everything feels potentially overwhelming when I am under a lot of stress). I am confident that once we feel more settled and relaxed as a family, things will fall into place with the toileting issues.

I think the previous suggestions to have a "reset" period are great. Also, maybe, if it feels right to you, try to let go of what you think they should be doing at this point. Often when I think in those terms it is because I feel I'm being judge critically by "others" - like I'm not doing a good job as a mom because my kids aren't doing x,y,or z. But "others" don't know what it is like to parent in my shoes, within my context. I'm not sure that is where you are coming from, but I thought I'd put it out there.

I wish you the very best working through all life has put on your plate. Please do what you can to take care of yourself along the way.

[philomom]

Can you borrow an older boy for the day and have him show them what to do? My mom did this with my brother and one day is all it took.

[CariOfOz]

I don't normally post in here, but I am desperate and came looking for the same thing you did it seems! I have a 4.5yo boy as well (just one thank goodness, because I'm having enough of a time with him!).. he'll pee in the toilet no problem, even wakes up dry MOST mornings. BUt poop? Not bloody likely! The only time he will poop on the toilet is after AGES of sitting on it... we start out with screaming and crying and him screaming let me ouuut as if he's locked in or something. He swears he doesn't need to, doesn't want to.. but after washing 4 pair of poop smeared undies it's pretty obvious he DOES need to. But he refuses to go.

You're not alone in doing all the wrong things... we're right there with you but only because we've tried as many of the RIGHT things as we can think of and he still refuses! Don't mean to thread jack... just commiserating and stalking your thread for advice, since it's pretty much what I was going to post as well

[abomgardner417]

Thank you everyone for your responses and ideas. I think we will try going back to square one again. I tried that a about a month ago before the potty angel thing but maybe I just didn't do it long enough. I tried setting the timer too for a few weeks and I still tell twin #1 when to go potty. It's usually met with "But I don't have to go!!" and then whining and crying when I make him. I've just calmly repeated "You're having trouble deciding when to go potty, so for now, mommy will decide for you." But there's only so much of the whining I can listen to day after day, week after week. I realize I'm probably not being consistent and trying too many different things too quickly.
My reverend at church said the same thing essentially...that we've done everything so just try chilling for awhile. She's a certified counselor and teaches Becky Bailey's conscious discipline courses. She was supposed to get with someone who would ask Becky Bailey directly about my problem but I don't think she ever heard from that person.
MomtoGCNJ - I TOTALLY feel like I'm not doing my job as a mom. I feel like people are thinking that I'm a sahm so why can't I manage to potty train my kids. I really do need to just let it go and let it happen whenever it's going to happen. I just hope it's before they're in school full-time next fall!

philomom - they're dad and grandpa have shown them what to do. I think they know what to do, it's just getting them to WANT to do it! But maybe someone closer in age would help.

As far as their preschool teacher, I haven't talked to her because they're only there 2 days a wk for 2.5 hrs each day. They have one group potty break and can go if they need to. My pee-er will sometimes be fine during school but will pee on the way home and my pooper will just hold it during school. But maybe their teacher would have some ideas.

CariofOz - hey, the more the merrier at this potty party!

The other thing that makes me worry about my pee-er is that he'll go potty and then ten minutes later he has wet pants. Is his bladder really that small?

[waiting2bemommy]

My ds has been through a lot too and I find that he also has accidents or regresses a bit with each transition. I thin it is just his way of letting me know that he needs extra help r that it's too much for him to handle. Once he feels settled and his anxiety goes away, there are zero accidents.

I can't thin of any suggestion other than what's been posted, but I think you are right on about the transition in their lived maing them regress with the potty thing. I know how hard it is....when we were living in a motel with the nearest laundromat three blocks away and I was 8 months pregnant, ds started pooping on himself sometimes twice a day. I actually used to sit and cry because I did NOT want to do anymore wash.

if I think of any practical ideas I will come bac and post them. poor little giuys, they will adjust soon enough...