reconsidering...

[onetrumpeter]

We've had no vaccines for our kids. But I have to admit; I'm fairly terrified of our kids getting pertussis. The infrequency of most of the other vax-"prevented" diseases is so low, but for some reason I just *keep* hearing about whooping cough and I'm terrified of our kids getting it.

It's been a while since I researched enough to say to our peds that we're going to "delay" (as in perpetually delay, which I think they get) but I'm really considering getting the DTaP. There's no straight pertussis vax, right?

oy. I'm not sure how much I'm letting fear play with my mind. I know there are risks both ways, but I'm just so strongly feeling the risk of having to deal with a long illness that is very difficult for my kids

thanks for letting me vent/process

[mom2happy]

I feel the same way. None if mine are vaxed either.
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[onetrumpeter]

Originally Posted by mom2happy

I feel the same way. None if mine are vaxed either.
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thanks! I think having DS with some sort of allergic reaction and even DD deal with a minor virus (which I think is doing well w/ oil of oregano on her feet - but not certain of its effect; her cold has just not really progressed beyond a bit of sniffles and very minor upper respiratory and chest congestion) reminds me of our vulnerability to disease.

I didn't formerly think this way - feeling vulnerable - but I *hate* seeing my kids sick and I know there are no guarantees of anything but maybe I can get them the DTaP and lessen the severity of a pertussis issue, should we get it...

[littlec]

check out the vaccination coverage vs. pertussis rates over the past decade- and then some. The rates have risen almost every year..this isn't some new "outbreak"- it's just getting more coverage this year.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...G/coverage.pdf

http://apps.who.int/immunization_mon...ntry.cfm?C=USA

If you feel concerned though, I would look at the package insert, the vaccine ingredients, and even the cdc pink book chapter on pertussis. Maybe that will help you make your decision. Here are the links for you. Hope that helps!


http://www.daptacel.com/support_file...DAPTACELVS.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...loads/pert.pdf

Quote from the pink book:
"Pertussis incidence has been gradually increasing since the early 1980s. A total of 25,827 cases was reported in 2004, the largest number since 1959. The reasons for the increase are not clear."

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter

We've had no vaccines for our kids. But I have to admit; I'm fairly terrified of our kids getting pertussis. The infrequency of most of the other vax-"prevented" diseases is so low, but for some reason I just *keep* hearing about whooping cough and I'm terrified of our kids getting it.

It's been a while since I researched enough to say to our peds that we're going to "delay" (as in perpetually delay, which I think they get) but I'm really considering getting the DTaP. There's no straight pertussis vax, right?

oy. I'm not sure how much I'm letting fear play with my mind. I know there are risks both ways, but I'm just so strongly feeling the risk of having to deal with a long illness that is very difficult for my kids

thanks for letting me vent/process

The big thing that helped me not be fearful was to start making a list of things that will help us get through illnesses more quickly and easily. Would having a plan, with a list of things to try and some products on-hand, make you feel more at-ease?

FWIW, we had a prolonged coughing illness last fall, both kids (ages 3 and 5 at the time) fit into the range of symptoms discussed in this study from Pediatrics...

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/100/6/e10

and the kids' symptoms responded to high doses of SA the way the anecdotal reports around here say they will for pertussis. And it was pretty darn manageable.

DH and I had low level coughing, not enough to actually seem sick, yk?, that lasted quite a while--if that's at all normal in adults, then I don't know how many times I may have had this over the years, it just acted like one of those winter coughs that takes a long time to go away. It really made me wonder how much is always around and missed.

I found that study helpful because a) I didn't realize pertussis could be so mild, and b) it made me realize I should just jump in and treat the illness as if it were WC and then see how the kids' symptoms responded.

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

And the pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission or infection. It is just supposed to reduce the severity of the illness. I have a friend who has 6 kids and 4 of them got pertussis and they were all treated with SA (sodium ascorbate). They recovered very quickly and life went on.

Again, getting your child vaccinated with the pertussis vaccine will not keep them from getting sick, will not keep them from transmitting the disease to anyone else, but may prevent proper diagnosis where they'll go into public (school?) and spread it to even more people...which is probably why the pertussis rates keep going up. If you hear the early symptoms of the disease, you can quarantine them...but if they symptoms are so mild that they do not sound like pertussis, you keep sending the kids out and infecting more and more people.

The links posted above are very good and I agree that you should research the vaccine (highly reactive) and research good, homeopathic and allopathic cures and see which you are most comfortable with.

[Pirogi]

Originally Posted by littlec

check out the vaccination coverage vs. pertussis rates over the past decade- and then some. The rates have risen almost every year..this isn't some new "outbreak"- it's just getting more coverage this year.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...G/coverage.pdf

http://apps.who.int/immunization_mon...ntry.cfm?C=USA

If you feel concerned though, I would look at the package insert, the vaccine ingredients, and even the cdc pink book chapter on pertussis. Maybe that will help you make your decision. Here are the links for you. Hope that helps!


http://www.daptacel.com/support_file...DAPTACELVS.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...loads/pert.pdf

Quote from the pink book:
"Pertussis incidence has been gradually increasing since the early 1980s. A total of 25,827 cases was reported in 2004, the largest number since 1959. The reasons for the increase are not clear."

Your first two links don't work, and I would really love to see this information!

[HRJ]

I am terrified of this increase as well. I have a 5 yr old unvaxxed child, and I'm due w/ a baby march 2. It is really bad in our county. My family dr is seeing it. Our ped is seeing it. There's been at least one case at the local school. Someone canceled their derm appt (over the phone) while I was sitting in the waiting room b/c their son had it. My SIL works w/ someone who had a case at their daycare. I never used to hear about it. Now they are saying where we live is worse than California if you go by per capita.

That said, my pediatrician is seeing it in unvaxxed AND vaxxed kids. She doesn't feel the vaxxed kids are getting it any less severely - just that those cases are being caught earlier.

I feel that for my son, he isn't going to get the full vaccine protection (which is only 76%) until after 3 shots. So by the time he's had them all, it would be spring, and the wave could be over. I feel that even if I wanted to get the Dtap, it is sort of too late. One shot might give him, what, 30% immunity? Deptacal is 76-77% effective after all boosters in preventing severe disease and only 60-something% effective in preventing mild disease.

There is a discussion over on Dr Sears vaccine forums about an outbreak of 6 kids at a school in PA. All were vaccinated. So I am just really skeptical about that vaccine.

Dr Sears even says that the pertussis vaccine is not very effective and pertussis is a very stubborn bacteria (he contrasts that to the MMR which is feels is very effective).

We have 4 cases of autism in our family, and my son has had behavioral issues with casein, so I think I have finally decided not to give him the shot.

[TonyaW]

Here is what helped me get over my fear of pertussis...

I have a good friend whose two children have had every vaccination under the sun, she is very into conventional medicine. Her two boys ended up with pertussis anyway.

My doctor, who doesn't push any vaccines and is fine with no vaccinations but still recommends a couple, says that it is probably 50:50 in his practice of those who vaccinate and who do not. He sees pertussis in both the unvaccinated as well as the vaccinated.

Supposedly Sodium Ascorbate makes a very big difference in the severity of the disease and cough. There are some recent posts of mom's here on Mothering who have claimed that their child had pertussis, developed a classic whoop, and started SA with great success. There are stickies on here too to read about SA as well. So if you ever suspect that anyone in your family has been exposed to pertussis or develop symptoms of pertussis, starting SA right away will help.

[leighi123]

My sister got it 2 days after getting the vax. They said it was most likely caused by the vax itself. I didnt get the vax for it and didnt get it, despite being in close quarters with her the entire time she was sick.

[onetrumpeter]

I'd tried to "subscribe" but for some reason didn't notice that others had replied.  Thanks so much, especially for the links.  I've got to check those out.  And I think I'd feel more comfortable if I were armed w/ sodium ascorbate.  Would appreciate any ideas on buying that/best prices, etc.  Thanks - I think now I'm officially "subscribed."  Hoping this is all just preparatory research and not needed, but it's good to hear from you all regardless.

[HRJ]

I don't know if it is the BEST sodium abscorbate, but I buy the NOW brand.  I used to buy The Right C, but they don't make it anymore.  Look at the Smart Medicine for a Healthier Child book too - they have a section in there on homeopathic remedies for WC, and that is on my to-do list - buy all the remedies and have them on hand.  I also plan to look for a homeopath that has treated this and treated it well. 

[bbrandonsmom]

 I think the cdc is having some link problems? Here is some info from inside vaccines about pertussis  http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/dtap/

 The people I have met irl, who have come down with Pertussis-have been fully vaccinated, so....

 HRJ-I had been getting the NOW SA as well, but they are not GMO free. I found some at iherb, that is GMO free and a better price too. 

[onetrumpeter]

Thanks for the link; I wasn't familiar w/ "inside vaccines."  Great to know about SA and looking for non-GMO.  I found one made by NutriBiotic; is that the brand you were meaning on iHerb? 
 

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom 

 I think the cdc is having some link problems? Here is some info from inside vaccines about pertussis  http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/dtap/

 The people I have met irl, who have come down with Pertussis-have been fully vaccinated, so....

 HRJ-I had been getting the NOW SA as well, but they are not GMO free. I found some at iherb, that is GMO free and a better price too. 

[bbrandonsmom]

Yes-Nutribiotic. 

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by leighi123 

My sister got it 2 days after getting the vax. They said it was most likely caused by the vax itself. I didnt get the vax for it and didnt get it, despite being in close quarters with her the entire time she was sick.

Whaaa??  DTaP isn't a live vax, is it? It's pretty darn near impossible to catch pertussis from a dead strain.  Isn't it more likely that she was exposed to pertussis while in the office getting the vaccination?
 

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter 

I'd tried to "subscribe" but for some reason didn't notice that others had replied.  Thanks so much, especially for the links.  I've got to check those out.  And I think I'd feel more comfortable if I were armed w/ sodium ascorbate.  Would appreciate any ideas on buying that/best prices, etc.  Thanks - I think now I'm officially "subscribed."  Hoping this is all just preparatory research and not needed, but it's good to hear from you all regardless.

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom 

 I think the cdc is having some link problems? Here is some info from inside vaccines about pertussis  http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/vaccine-efficacy-how-often-do-vaccines-work/dtap/

 The people I have met irl, who have come down with Pertussis-have been fully vaccinated, so....

 HRJ-I had been getting the NOW SA as well, but they are not GMO free. I found some at iherb, that is GMO free and a better price too. 

http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Sodium-Ascorbate-Crystalline-Powder-16-oz-454-g/10178?at=0

This is the one you mean, right?  This is awesome, we go through a ton of SA (we've got health stuff going on), and this is a) a better price than I've ever seen elsewhere, and b) easier to order since iherb has flat-rate shipping even for small orders and free for somewhat larger orders, and c) a very nice SA.  I bought it a couple times locally when I could find it and we ran out of the stuff I ordered online and I liked it. 

ETA: I had an error in my formula the first time, it's only slightly cheaper than the 3-pound Now foods SA, but it's still better quality and easier to order from iherb, so it's still a win!  Just not quite the cost savings I was hoping.

Edited by tanyalynn - 11/15/10 at 7:53am

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by NaturalBirthGoddes 

And the pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission or infection. It is just supposed to reduce the severity of the illness. I have a friend who has 6 kids and 4 of them got pertussis and they were all treated with SA (sodium ascorbate). They recovered very quickly and life went on.

Again, getting your child vaccinated with the pertussis vaccine will not keep them from getting sick, will not keep them from transmitting the disease to anyone else, but may prevent proper diagnosis where they'll go into public (school?) and spread it to even more people...which is probably why the pertussis rates keep going up. If you hear the early symptoms of the disease, you can quarantine them...but if they symptoms are so mild that they do not sound like pertussis, you keep sending the kids out and infecting more and more people.

The links posted above are very good and I agree that you should research the vaccine (highly reactive) and research good, homeopathic and allopathic cures and see which you are most comfortable with.

My son had all 5 DTaP doses and was recently tested for whooping cough.  He tested negative, but his doctor thought it was enough of a possibility to test him.  AKA, the vaccination does not ensure anything.

In the meantime, I kept him home from school and worried that the couple of days I sent him after the doctor first diagnosed him with a bad cold, he exposed who knows how many kids, teachers, volunteers, etc. to whatever he had.  I wished that I hadn't risked the vaccine, the reaction he had, and then the mildness of the symptoms.  As much as we hate our kids to be sick, I would have rather my son be clearly sick with something serious than mildly sick and expose countless others.

It seems to me that the pertussis virus is mutating, and/or it just happens to be this year's H1N1.  In which case I predict next year's VPD de jeur will be measles or mumps.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter 

I'd tried to "subscribe" but for some reason didn't notice that others had replied.  Thanks so much, especially for the links.  I've got to check those out.  And I think I'd feel more comfortable if I were armed w/ sodium ascorbate.  Would appreciate any ideas on buying that/best prices, etc.  Thanks - I think now I'm officially "subscribed."  Hoping this is all just preparatory research and not needed, but it's good to hear from you all regardless.

I get mine from Amazon.com.  Free shipping over $25, and you can save 15% with "subscribe and save", and cancel the subscription after it ships if you don't want another delivery.
 

[onetrumpeter]

Bokon, what brand SA do you buy on Amazon?