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NIP: taboos in our culture  

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
My sister is a hairdresser. A women comes in to her shop and begins to bf her infant without trying to cover. No one in the shop says anything until the women leaves but they all feel the same, uncomfortable and disgusted (my sister's discription).

My sister told me that when a women just whips out her breast to feed her child that it is obnoxious. No one wants to see a mother's breast. She says that a mother should cover up. I pointed out to her that somewhere between 5-7 months my ds started to pull the blanket off his head. She said that I wasn't nasty about it showing everyone what I have. I pointed out to her that I have small breasts and therefore my shirt pretty much covers me up without trying and that a mother with big DD's or larger could not conceal her breasts as easily.

I tried to explain to her that it is not that she is trying to expose herself to gain sexual attention. She is simply trying to feed her child. My sister says a large breasted women who can not cover up needs to go to her car or stay at home and nurse because no one wants to see her breasts. It is the right of other people to not feel uncomfortable in a public place.

I wonder if this is how most of our society veiws NIP? What do you think? Is it acceptable to NIP as long as you are trying to be discreet? Are big breasted women often seen as more sexual or even promiscuous (sorry I have NO idea how to spell that one!) Is it accaptable to nurse a toddler in a public place?

I don't NIP often because the occasion just dosen't arise so much anymore at his age but I have had comments like "Wow! That is a REALLY big baby!" He's a year and a half and still pretty bald. I think people assume he's much younger.
post #2 of 50
I have large breasts - I breastfeed anywhere - anytime.

I think that our society has perpetuated the notion that babies drink bottles and babies who don't are newborns and stay home. The idea that feeding an infant is veiwed as sexual i or perverted is just plain wrong.

People that feel uncomfortable certainly have the right to feel uncomfortable...but they can chooe not to look. People of different races, or that have different colored hair (think HOT PINK), or that are gay...they make many people uncomfortable (people who are ingnorant <uninformed NOT stupid>) That does not mean those people should be segregated from the mainstream population.

I think individuals who feel they have the right to limit others freedom of choice will live a long life of frustrating defeat....
post #3 of 50
I have VERY large breasts. DD is 8 months and I am now just starting to nurse w/o a blanket because she rips it off.

I think that we just have to let go of the worry. If someone is looking or has a problem then they are the ones with a problem IMO.

It just drives me nuts that in this culture a bottle fed baby (formula) can eat anywhere but the mothers who are trying to do the best they can for their babies can't
post #4 of 50
I think most people are uncomfortable. I know my attitudes have changed *significantly* since becoming a bfing mother.

I have big tits and I nurse a 2 1/2 yr. old---I'm gonna put a blanket over his head????? :

I just try to be the best embassador of breastfeeding and nip that I can. I smile at people, try to retain my sense of humor about the whole thing, and answer questions as patiently as I can.
post #5 of 50
Quote:
It is the right of other people to not feel uncomfortable in a public place.
Horse Hockey!

Says who? Where is it written in the Constitution (nevermind reality)?

It is however the right of a baby to eat. Unless all babies no matter how fed are being relegated to their mothers' vehicles, then she's promoting discrimination.

Unless all persons are required to eat in private, she's promoting discrimination.

And all the states that have made laws agree with our position here. And in all the states that have not made laws, NIP is NOT illegal either.
post #6 of 50
Quote:
It is the right of other people to not feel uncomfortable in a public place.
:LOL

If that's true, I should be able to sue everyone who bottlefed in public while I was watching, because it made me really uncomfortable! I mean, how am I supposed to explain that to my child? I don't want her exposed to that at all, but since those women are just sooooo hell bent on whipping out their bottles and doing their thing wherever they happen to be, there is a chance dd will see that someday. What am I supposed to say? It's very uncomfortable, and no, I can't just stop looking! I have a right to look wherever I want and still not see anything I don't want to see! Bwa ha ha ha ha!
post #7 of 50
I think overall out society is uncomfortable with it, and I hope that is changing. I nip my almost 10month ds all the time and get lots of positive comments those times that people notice what i am doing. that said i do think it is polite as a bf mom to attempt to be discreet just as i think people should treat everyone with kindness. i never use a blanket and never did, but i do use clthes that make nursing easier and turn while i latch etc...

the other day i nurses ds in the dentists waiting room and the woman next to be said how peacefully he was sleeping. when i said he was eating she smiled and said, oh, no wonder he is happy! while a few minutes later a mom came in with her dd, sat down, unbottoned her blouse, exposed her entire breast and proceeded to nurse. now i do that at home, but in a public place i dont think it is necessary and i think it increases negative stereotypes about bf. everyone was obviously uncomfortable...

anyway just my opinion, but when i nip i want to show people how wonderful it is, not make them uncomfortable....

hope this makes sense, i'm not trying to criticize anyone!

maria
post #8 of 50
OK...so my response didn't come off as I intended

I can't stand the fact that anyone might think breast feeding in public or ANYWHERE (no matter the size of the breasts or age of the child) is wrong/immoral/sexual/disgusting etc.

However, I do realize that some people are not exposed to much outside of what they deem to be average/normal/acceptable and will feel uncomfortable with anything "different." You can't say they are not allowed to feel uncomfortable....they can feel uncomfortable....but they can not impose their feelings on others - by requesting they leave/cover up/stay home/bottle feed etc. They can look away, read a magazine, etc.....or they can just plain get over it !

Does that make more sense ?

What would you do if you were the OPer ?
post #9 of 50
Some women choose to be discreet, which is fine, as long as the baby is comfortable and eating well. But some choose not to be, for whatever reason, probably because it's what works best for her and her baby. Why interfere with what works?

I don't intentionally expose myself (though I'm sure I have accidentally without noticing) but I don't try to hide the fact that we're nursing. I don't do nursing clothes, turn my back or go to another room. I just don't wear back-zip dresses that I would have to unzip and then pull down to my waist; now that would be awkward! I wear low-cut v-necks that I can just pop a breast out of. So I end up exposing just as much as I normally would just by wearing that shirt! And I am lucky enough to be small, but I don't think large-breasted women should be treated any differently.

Personally, I think it's great when women expose more than they absolutely have to. Men do it all the time; often they don't even bother to put on a shirt! There is no reason for men to even HAVE breasts, let alone show them to the world.
post #10 of 50
As long as butt cracks, butt cheeks(short shorts), see-through shirts, belly shirts, extreme cleavage, men's nipples, camel toes, and polyester doubleknit are a-okay, then so are my boobies. I don't mean to trivialize it, but come on! People are uncomfortable about feeding babies?

If we are talking about tact and courtesy, I don't understand how we can ignore the lack of tact and courtesy it takes to negatively judge a nursing mom!

Eeew! That mother just kissed and hugged her disgusting little baby! How can she publicly show such affection shamelessly!

I don't mean to trivialize the issue, but to get offended or think that nursing mothers should modify their behavior (in this respect) because YOU are uncomfortable is extraordinarily trivial.
post #11 of 50
My first thought was that in a salon I would make a bet that they have magazines proudly spread about their establishment that show more boob than the woman nursing did and no one was offended by that.

I try to remember how I felt about nip before I had children. I still remember sitting next to a woman about to get on a plane and being flooring that she nursed openly. Luckily when I mentioned this to my friend, who was just about to give birth, she set me straight She made me really think about why I was uncomfortable when all the woman was doing was feeding her baby.

Let's face it in our culture breasts are seen as a sex accessory - that's what makes people uncomfortable. Bottles are for babies – Boobs are for you boyfriend. I bet if that same woman came in and leaned over too far and exposed her breasts people would be talking about how sexy she was – but gasp – she used them to feed her baby – ick!

Hopefully the more people that nip the more people will get used to it. I also notice that you see women breastfeeding on tv more - no actually showing it up close, but at least it's discussed (I'm thinking of Friends, Mad about You, etc.) Of course they're always well covered and usually wean way before the age of one, but I think it's at least a start in getting people to realize it's okay to let a baby suck on your boobs - it's not obscene.
post #12 of 50
I got assaulted by women who put their nose into my breastfeeding when they decided that I either hadn't covered enough or my son was being smothered.

One pulled my breast away from his face. The other one pulled my shirt down on top of him.

If I hadn't been such a new nurser (again) I probably would have called the cops for assault.

AUGH.
post #13 of 50
Quote:
It is the right of other people to not feel uncomfortable in a public place.
i laughed at this too and thought about how uncomfortable i was at walmart the other day when i saw a 14 y/o girl wearing a midriff shirt, short shorts with her butt hanging out, and her thong pulled up to her waist whilst her shorts were pulled down past her hips. then she bent over to pick something up and i swear, i thought her shorts were gonna pop off!! AND she had a tatoo over her butt-crack. this girl was only 14!! she was with her mom buying groceries. and i see this "look" more and more among younger teens who are trying to be "sexy." ICK!! my kid wouldn't leave the house like that, i promise you. especially not to go grocery shopping with me.

that's why it makes me crazy when i hear about others being "uncomfortable" or thinking NIP or BF in general is "gross." i try to be as discreet as possible, and i usually do go to the car for the moment since i haven't learned a good way to get my boob out of my shirt yet, (dd is only 3.5 months and right now my boobies are an F-cup!!!), but if i'm able to NIP, i do. and i don't care what ppl say.
post #14 of 50
oh mamid!! i would have slapped the woman's hand and started yelling!!! no one puts their hands on me or my child!!! if they start reaching for my baby in her snugli or in her carseat, i say, "no touching please." and that usually does it. but if they are insistant, i get really bitchy, lol.

I would have flipped out if someone tried to do that to me!! the only ppl that have done anything similar to me were the LC at the hospital and my mom.

the LC was helping us learn to latch.

mom was helping my with my shirt b/c my dad saw my whole boob and we both got a bit embarassed, lol. it wasn't that i was covering up for him or anything, i just personally wasn't comfortable NIP'ing at that time, (dd was 2 weeks i think), and i wasn't ready for him to see my whole boob, lol.
post #15 of 50
why are the feelings of complete strangers more important than the feelings of the mother or her baby? i could care less if someone is uncomfortable by me feeding my baby...that is THEIR issue, not mine, and i refuse to stay home or go to my car just for the comfort of people i dont' know.

like you said...she's just trying to feed her baby, not show everyone what she's got. why don't people get that? breastfeeding is about the LEAST sexual thing i can think of, and people need to get over themselves!

sorry...i just really get riled up by that kind of attitude. if it makes them uncomfortable, they are perfectly within their rights to put a blanket over their OWN head so they don't have to look.
post #16 of 50
Like I said, I was a "new nurser" even though it was my second time doing it and I nursed for nearly 3 years until CPS decided to threaten me with loss of visits when my daughter went into foster care... Anyway, I was still shaky from the birth and antibiotics the asshole, I mean OB had me take. By 3 months, I would have decked the b-rhymeswithsnitches or called the cops.

The first 6 weeks, I was extremely shaky. I shouldn't have been doing some of the stuff I did and I don't know why I did it. I guess I was glad to be mobile because the last 2 months I was pretty much on bed rest.
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally posted by rareimer
why are the feelings of complete strangers more important than the feelings of the mother or her baby? i could care less if someone is uncomfortable by me feeding my baby...that is THEIR issue, not mine, and i refuse to stay home or go to my car just for the comfort of people i dont' know.

Quote:
Originally posted by rareimer
if it makes them uncomfortable, they are perfectly within their rights to put a blanket over their OWN head so they don't have to look.
:
post #18 of 50
Well, I think we are probably all in agreement that NIP is a good thing, and it is our right to do so. I wanted to share the following story to illustrate how bad things are in our culture with regard to NIP (as if you didn't all know already!) I have a 4 month old, and I recently went back to work part-time. I hired an Brazilian au pair to stay with us for a year. She was hired through an agency, and had to attend orientation to familiarize herself with American culture when she arrived here. She told me that they were taught in the orientation that "American women seldom breastfeed, and never do so in public, it is considered taboo." She is very pleased that I have NIPed with her and the baby when we go out in public. She says in Brazil, you see NIP everywhere, and nobody bats an eye. It was really hard to explain to her what the problem is in America. It really made me think, trying to come up with an explanation. I said it was because Americans have such wacky ideas about sex. We sexualize breasts, and therefore, Americans think it is indecent to expose NIP, but at the same time, it is ok to show lots of cleavage. It was very difficult to explain something that doesn't make any sense.
post #19 of 50
just had some more thoughts (ds eating so excuse the loweer case and typos)

i think women should feel comfortable nip at any time, any place, any age baby, any size breast, period.

but i also know our society has lost the understanding of bf and its importance and beauty and i really hope i can help change that. in my experience when people are uncomfortable they are less open to new ideas and changes. so i feel that if by being discreet i can help the mainstream see bf as positive and normal than as long as baby and i can be happy too why not... and i also hope to show some new moms that might not be comfortable nip/not comfortable with someone seeing their breasts that it can be done and they dont need to hide.

to me whether or not people should feel uncomfortable is not relavent,obviously feeding your child shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable, but i just try to get everyone i encounter to become a bf advocate, and i find helping them be comfortable in the beginning usually does the trick to them being open to what i say and believe.
post #20 of 50
I also have huge breasts and I breastfeed anytime anywhere, and I make no attempt to be discreet at all. Unfortunately, I think it is true that in our culture, breastfeeding is only accepted when it is done discreetly. Heck, it's barely tolerated even then. "The right of others not to be uncomfortable" -- I just love that one.

mariag, In my opinion, society will only become comfortable with breastfeeding when women start doing it overtly instead of discreetly. Doing it discreetly reinforces the idea that it's something that shouldn't really be seen.

You imply that it is impolite for me to breastfeed unless I do my best to keep my breast covered? Please! Would you have disapproved when women first started wearing shorts? Can you imagine if those first few women hadn't had the courage to make people uncomfortable? We still wouldn't be allowed to wear shorts!

>>a few minutes later a mom came in with her dd, sat down, unbottoned her blouse, exposed her entire breast and proceeded to nurse.

That woman you saw could have been me. That is exactly the way I breastfeed in public. You say you don't think it's "necessary" to NIP that way. Well, I don't think it's "necessary" to NIP YOUR way. Why do I "need" to hide my breast? There is nothing wrong with my breast. There is nothing indecent about it. I am not ashamed of it and I am offended my the notion that I should be. On the contrary, I think that people NEED to see breasts being used for their true purpose. People need to associate the image of a breast with the image of a baby being nourished. The image of a baby at the breast needs to replace the breast-image that is currently held in the mind of our culture, which is that of a breast being used by a man in a sexual context.

You claim that breastfeeding overtly increases negative stereotypes about breastfeeding. Can you give me an example of a negative stereotype about breastfeeding that is increased by overt breastfeeding? If you just mean that breasts make people uncomfortable, that's true, but there's no reason breasts *should* make people uncomfortable, and the only way people will ever become comfortable with breasts is if they get used to seeing them!

My objective when I NIP is not to make people uncomfortable, but if they are uncomfortable about my breast then I am not the one who needs to change, THEY are.
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