Tired of stereotypes about gender and behavior

[wildmonkeys]

Lately I feel very tired of hearing people stereotype "boy" and "girl" behavior. I have three boys two of whom are VERY QUIET and gentle and another who is a little more rough and tumble. Why do people say he "is all boy" - when I am redirecting him? What does that even mean? As if my quiet introspective son is 1/2 boy?

I also have a neighbor who has 2 girls and a boy. Her boy is having all sorts of trouble at preschool with hitting and whatnot. She was really upset because each day at pick-up they have been telling her that he is hitting his classmates and even the teachers - I was trying to reassure her and she said, "Well, with three boys you are probably used to it, but the girls never hit anyone at school so it is hard for me to get used to this boy stuff" I was speechless, I have never once in all my years (13 combined) of picking up my boys from school had a single teacher tell me that my boys had hit someone! I am not used to or okay with boys hitting, but was trying to be nice.

I have reflected on this and I find it to be true even if I don't look at my own kids (since it is difficult to be without bias regarding your own children) I can think of several families I know where their dd are rougher than their sons. Anyway, I should probably just suck it up when people say this stuff, but it is wearing on me. There are plenty of negative stereotypes out there about other things that we don't accept people saying - why is everyone so okay with this?

What do you guys think?

[mamazee]

I'm the mom of a wild wild girl and I get tired of it too. Someone told me once when she was younger and less in control that my dd's wildness would be understandable if she were a boy.

[Tjej]

I don't like it either - the stereotypes and comments. Unfortunately for me, my kids fit the stereotypes for gender quite well. It's hard to refute peoples' gender-based comments when my kids prove them right.

I also don't like it when gender is used as an excuse for poor behavior (hitting, not listening, etc). All kids do that, but they need to learn it isn't acceptable, not that they can get away with it because of their privates!

Tjej

[DariusMom]

It really irritates me too. I have a quiet, gentle boy. Yet, when he was littler (he's almost 8) people seemed to expect him to be rowdy and boisterous. Either they projected that behavior on to him or else they started making cracks about how he was going to be gay (ha ha ... ) because he's artsy and creative. sigh ...

[MusicianDad]

I'm not even close to OK with it. I have enough of a problem with it that my default response to such stereotypes is to point out that the other gender does it too. Really.

I remember one day at school with a female friend (who has only a sister). Someone made a comment about how girls don't really fight, they just scream at each other and call each other names. Before I could say anything my friend started detailing the fights her and her sister had gotten into (including how she had at one point gotten the upper hand and her sister kicked her into a wall when they were 8 and 10.)

And the insinuations that the quiet boy must be gay while the loud, rambunctious boy is not? My brother was the quiet one, and engaged to a very nice woman, meanwhile I was the one getting all rough and tumble.

[WindyCityMom]

Question- what do you all say to people (family) when they remark "Oh, it's cause she/he's a boy" or "typical boy/girl" or "it's a girl/boy thing!".

One thing that irks me is that a little boy in our family has been suspected of having red flags for ADHD and sensory issues by his preschool teacher. Adults in the family have remarked that oh it's nothing, just typical boy behavior, and ignored it. Sad.

[OkiMom]

I have two girls and they are both very "girly" and very "boyish" at the same time. They are rough and tumble, loud, all over the place, climbing, jumping, playing with cars, getting muddy etc and then they will turn around and "make" hot cocoa in their play kitchen, rocking their "baby" to sleep, drawing/painting etc. I can't stand the sterotype because there is no "right way" to be a girl or a boy.
Im sure I would stun people, I love to cook, sew and craft.. but I also am a former Marine that can outshoot my husband, take someone to the ground if need be and break down just about any weapon faster than most the men I know.. Sterotypes just don't work.

[Greenmama2]

I hate it too but I thought it was pretty funny that you wrote this

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

What do you guys think?

Since MD is the only "guy" to respond so far. Personally being called a guy doesn't bother me but I used to spend a lot of time on a birth forum that autocorrected "guy" to "woman" and I know a lot of women who are bothered by it. So it struck me as funny that you finished your post with that.

I really hate that it's considered less acceptable (by some people) for DD to express her upset about something physically than for boys her age to do the same

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Greenmama2

I hate it too but I thought it was pretty funny that you wrote this

Since MD is the only "guy" to respond so far. Personally being called a guy doesn't bother me but I used to spend a lot of time on a birth forum that autocorrected "guy" to "woman" and I know a lot of women who are bothered by it. So it struck me as funny that you finished your post with that.

I really hate that it's considered less acceptable (by some people) for DD to express her upset about something physically than for boys her age to do the same

I find it odd that even on a birth forum "guy" would be auto corrected as "woman". Kind messes with statements that actually refer to a man.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by WindyCityMom

Question- what do you all say to people (family) when they remark "Oh, it's cause she/he's a boy" or "typical boy/girl" or "it's a girl/boy thing!".

One thing that irks me is that a little boy in our family has been suspected of having red flags for ADHD and sensory issues by his preschool teacher. Adults in the family have remarked that oh it's nothing, just typical boy behavior, and ignored it. Sad.

In that case I make it very clear that I don't believe certain behaviours are appropriate for anyone. It really makes me sad that some boys will fall through the cracks just because he's a boy. At the same time, though, I do understand that there is a rampant over diagnosis of things like ADHD and such a diagnosis harms the child in a similar way. In stead of "well he's a boy it's just how he is" we get "well he's ADHD so it's just how it is". We really need to find the middle ground before anyone can really be helped.

It always reminds me of people who blame a woman for a man not being able to control himself. Be it any sort of sexual assault, adultery, or just staring at a woman's chest or rear end when such attention is inappropriate for the setting. You know "how can you expect boys to concentrate in class when girls wear such revealing things?" Um, how about teaching them something called self control?

[Wild Lupine]

I'm really heartened to read that so many people are bothered by this stereotyping. I was beginning to think I was the only one.

It amazes me how widespread the stereotyping is, people I think should 'know better' still refer to boy behaviors and girl behaviors. I never have a good response, just usually pass the bean dip or something. If my kids are within earshot I might have a discussion with them later about what a strange thing so and so said.

One thing that never fails to bother me is watching people tell their sons not to cry, when I know they would let their daughters. I want to scream: "He's three years old and he's hurt, let him cry!!!"

On the other hand, no one batted an eye when we gave our son a doll for his second birthday. He pushes it around in his stroller all the time and the comments he gets are entirely appropriate, so that's a relief!

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

And the insinuations that the quiet boy must be gay while the loud, rambunctious boy is not? My brother was the quiet one, and engaged to a very nice woman, meanwhile I was the one getting all rough and tumble.

Absolutely! First of all, if DS is gay, that's fine by us! We even live in a country where, thankfully, gays and lesbians can legally marry and adopt. But it just annoys the beejesus out of me that there's a default assumption that sexual orientation is related to behavior.

[EdnaMarie]

I hate it so much, too.

My daughters are very active and physical and assertive and I let them be that way and I love it.

When I hear people at the park complaining about their boys walking up the slide--"SIGH! If only I had a little GIRL!" and one girl is hanging off the big toy, another one is trying to organize a stick war, and yet another is teaching everyone to jump off the bench on top of each other, well, I just want to scream,

"Are you blind? They're children, and girls can do everything boys can do and boys can do what girls can do, except have babies in the future, everyone has his or her own personality so PUHLEAZE stop feeling sorry for yourself and enjoy your wonderful, unique child!!!!"

Question- what do you all say to people (family) when they remark "Oh, it's cause she/he's a boy" or "typical boy/girl" or "it's a girl/boy thing!".

"Oh, is that a boy thing? I'll have my girls checked for penises at their next well-baby visits. I thought all kids did that."

In terms of something that is truly pathological--though frankly, I do NOT think ADHD is something that is easy to diagnose in pre-school, I think it is really hard and I'd never trust a pre-school teacher to do so, I'd want at least one therapist, preferable a second and third opinion, before I wrote it off as age-appropriate--I would probably keep my mouth shut at the moment, and find a diplomatic way to put it. Maybe, "Oh, wow, is that really typical of boys? I guess I have never seen that... hm."

[wildmonkeys]

GreenMama2 - Sorry! I see your point! Though I do think my language is more of a result of the fact that I live in an all "guy" house and when I am addressing a group in real life it is generally a group of guys rather than something deeper. Yesterday, between my kids, their friends, my hubby, and my brother I had 9 "guys" here and not a single female so I tend to talk to the "guys" in my day-to-day life.

Glad to see this bothers other parents as well. It just seems so accepted. It also seems like it follows the same patterns as other stereotyping (racial, parts of the country, religion, etc.) Whenever someone sees something that supports a stereotype they take it as confirmation of their belief, but if something runs contrary to their expectation they explain it away. For instance, numerous times I have seen girls behave really aggressively towards a little boys who are not provoking them and heard a parent say PROUDLY "Yeah she can really hold her own with the boys" rather than redirecting the behavior. If my son pushed ahead of another child in line or took a toy, I would ask him to wait his turn, but I have noticed that some behaviors are viewed differently (more as a sign of strength than aggression) depending on the gender of the child.

Thanks all for the feedback and good discussion and thanks GreenMama2 for the reminder about the power of language.

[velochic]

It does bother me... and I have a very "girly-girl" girl and no boys. It kind of makes me sad the way these gender lines are drawn. It's not new.

I was a tomboy growing up (I'm in my 40's now) and my mother was stereotyping my sexual preference because of it before I even had a sexual preference. (Turned out I'm 100% hetero, and defied all of her expectations. )

I particularly hate it when boys are expected to act a certain way. Girls have a lot more room to be creative with their personalities, but the culture really brings the hammer down on boys.

My boss at work displays the kind of ignorance I'm talking about. He has an infant boy (about 6 or 7 months old). He is already raising the next great misogynist because he thinks he has to force masculinity on a boy.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

It also seems like it follows the same patterns as other stereotyping (racial, parts of the country, religion, etc.)

Forgot to quote you in my last post.

I think if follows along the lines of ignorance. Any kind of intolerance is usually the result of lack of knowledge.

[treeoflife3]

Someone once told me I shouldn't want another girl because boys are so much easier. You can just tell them to knock it off and get over it, to get up and quit yer crying.

Apparently having a boy means you don't have to care about their emotional wellbeing and having to do so with oh so delicate girls is a hardship.

I don't tolerate sexism though. I don't think it is funny or right. I just want another girl because I already have all the clothes for one and i'm not prepared to put a boy in pink dresses and deal with THAT mess....

[Lolagirl]

Originally Posted by treeoflife3

Apparently having a boy means you don't have to care about their emotional wellbeing and having to do so with oh so delicate girls is a hardship.

I really, strongly believe that much of the differences between the sexes that our society accepts as inherent are in fact often socially constructed. I have 3 boys, and the boys will be boys nonsense I constantly get from people drives me crazy. My husband's side of the family is especially guilty of this, they all apparently operate on the assumption that roughness, rudeness and violence are inherently male traits and actually encourage them so that their boys will grow up to be strong manly men.

Thankfully, my husband is just as irritated with it as I am and we are both on the same page about this issue. We often joke that we want to save our kids from years of therapy and dysfunction as adults, but we both really strive to encourage our boys to be themselves and encourage them to work through emotional stuff with us so that they don't feel emotionally stifled.

[mama_daba]

i am glad this thread is here and that others know what this is like

whenever my son plays in a very active way or with mud, people always comment on how he plays that way because he is a boy and i don't get it. he plays with dolls and draws and plays with his doll house as much as he plays in the mud and most of his mud play involves pretending to cook mud food. i had a fabulous mud sandwich earlier today! but people only ever notice what things he does that fit into their gender stereotype and it gets really frustrating. he is a kid he plays like a kid. the whole thing is very frustrating. i do feel a bit lucky that the town i am in at least half the boys seem to have long hair and i have seen boys get princess books and things from the local free box where all the kids in town go to find toys and put their toys that they no longer play with. for the most part the gender stereotypes around me don't come from parents but the older generations and int his town even most of them do not do so much stereotyping. still when it happens it really gets on my nerves!

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by mama_daba

i am glad this thread is here and that others know what this is like

whenever my son plays in a very active way or with mud people always comment on how he plays that way because he is a boy and i don't get it. he plays with dolls and draws and plays with his doll house as much as he plays in the mud and most of his mud play involves pretending to cook mud food. i had a fabulous mud sandwich earlier today! but people only ever notice what things he does that fit into their gender stereotype and it gets really frustrating. he is a kid he plays like a kid. the whole thing is very frustrating. i do feel a bit lucky that the town i am in at least half the boys seem to have long hair and i have seen boys get princess books and things from the local free box where all the kids in town go to find toys and put their toys that they no longer play with. for the most part the gender stereotypes around me don't come from parents but the older generations and int his town even most of them do not do so much stereotyping. still when it happens it really gets on my nerves!

Just a random thought... You might want to put a comma in the bolded between the words "mud" and "people".