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polio outbreak

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
I don't know enough to make very many educated statements... but I'm curious what the vax questioning population thinks about this...
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/content/...tral-asia.aspx
post #2 of 36


I'm curious, too. My husband comes and goes on direct flights from polio-endemic countries several times a year...

The flights are full... and direct.

Do you know how much it costs to get a fake immunization record?

Answer: Less than it costs to get the shots.
post #3 of 36
Honestly. I would get my kids vaxed for polio if there was an outbreak in my area or we were going to an area with an outbreak. Personally, I feel polio is serious enough to warrant the vax. (If there was an outbreak of measles, in contrast, I still wouldn't get the vax.)
post #4 of 36
I'd call that expected. Honestly, IMHO polio hasn't gone away. We've just renamed it: aseptic meningitus. That disease did not exist pre-vaccine. After the vaccine they *CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF POLIO*:

Pre-1954:
Signs and symptoms included:
~ Partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups
~Paralysiss detected on two exams 24 hours apart.

After 1954
Signs and symtpoms included:
~Residual paralysis at 10-20 days and again at 50-70 days after onset of illness.

So, what was once lumped in with "polio" we now call aseptic/viral meningitus. It hasn't gone away. We just call it something different. Polion never went away in the US or anywhere else, We just renamed it. Elsewhere they still test for the polio virus. 95-99% of cases of polio were *always* asymptomatic of paralysis (ie was just a cold). So, tbh, it could easily still be circulating in the US too. We just don't bother to test for it and call it viral/aseptic meningitus.
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadelbosque View Post
I'd call that expected. Honestly, IMHO polio hasn't gone away. We've just renamed it: aseptic meningitus. That disease did not exist pre-vaccine. After the vaccine they *CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF POLIO*:

Pre-1954:
Signs and symptoms included:
~ Partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups
~Paralysiss detected on two exams 24 hours apart.

After 1954
Signs and symtpoms included:
~Residual paralysis at 10-20 days and again at 50-70 days after onset of illness.

So, what was once lumped in with "polio" we now call aseptic/viral meningitus. It hasn't gone away. We just call it something different. Polion never went away in the US or anywhere else, We just renamed it. Elsewhere they still test for the polio virus. 95-99% of cases of polio were *always* asymptomatic of paralysis (ie was just a cold). So, tbh, it could easily still be circulating in the US too. We just don't bother to test for it and call it viral/aseptic meningitus.
Where are you getting your definition of aseptic meningitis from? Because if you think that the definition of it is anything like what you just wrote, you are dead wrong. As a matter of fact, by definition aseptic meningitis does NOT have focal neurological symptoms, such as paralysis. Honestly, I am totally confused by your post.
post #6 of 36
I am curious to know if its wild polio.
post #7 of 36
Yes, if you read the CDC MMWR report you can clearly see that these were WPV.

http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml...cid=mm5943a1_w


When you get large unvaccinated populations that receive travel and immigration from polio infected countries, there will be movement eventually. We saw this in Africa a few years back and now Asia and Europe are seeing the same. I think one would have to add that conditions for importation of WPV into many of these areas were predicted as far back as 2005, clusters of unvaccinated that received high immigration and travel clustered were identified and many of these went on to be involved in these outbreaks.

These outbreaks, with the possible exception of one, have all been controlled.
post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post
Where are you getting your definition of aseptic meningitis from? Because if you think that the definition of it is anything like what you just wrote, you are dead wrong. As a matter of fact, by definition aseptic meningitis does NOT have focal neurological symptoms, such as paralysis. Honestly, I am totally confused by your post.
It's a pretty standard trope, going back to the controversy over the (inactivated) Salk vaccine, implicitly vs. a live vaccine. The basic argument is that by modifying the diagnostic criteria (sometimes, it is suggested, to be more in line with those used in the Salk field trials; I've seen nothing either way on the veracity of this bit), "98%" or some similar number of polio cases were defined out of existence.

The locus classicus is this snippet from statistician Bernard Greenberg, frequently misattributed as being testimony before the House of Representatives:

Quote:
This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957, whether or not any vaccine was used.
Not often quoted is Greenberg's final remark. From Thomas Kavanagh's examination (Googleable) of the primary sources:

Quote:
I am agnostic [as to the effectiveness of Salk] like Dr. Kleinman. I am sorry that I do not know what the effectiveness of the Salk vaccine is. Since nothing else is available, there seems to be no alternative but to push the use of it. I don't think we should do so in ignorance, nor too complacently, believing that as long as we have some partially effective there is no need to have something better. The USPHS is, in effect, saying, "Let's face it: we were burned the last time by getting into this business too quickly; so this time we are going to be more cautious." By being more cautious, we may make a mistake by accepting a better polio vaccine too slowly. And that's what I am trying to emphasize: They must realize they are making this mistake possible. The issue must be pursued.
There's nothing in this or his one peer-reviewed article on the subject (abstracted here) to suggest that Greenberg thought the Salk vaccine was ineffective or some sinister put-on, but rather that it was not well enough characterized statistically. One of course is also still left with explaining away the subsequent disappearance of actual paralytic disease.

[ETA.--Regarding the change in diagnostic criteria, it is perhaps worth noting that the development of the Salk vaccine, which relied on the new ability to propagate the virus in cell cultures, goes hand in hand with the ability to diagnose the disease in lab cell cultures. A change in clinical criteria that comes along with a new laboratory tool might not be seen as particularly surprising.]
post #9 of 36
Even in third world countries where polio vaccination is well under way, polio continues to be epidemic. This was an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal: (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...239615022.html) Bill Gates' polio vaccination efforts haven't led to an eradication of the disease. They really need to focus on clean water and sanitation first.
post #10 of 36
I don't really have any objections to the Polio vaccine. It's supposed to be one of the least reactive vaccines you can get. I haven't given the vaccine to my youngest because it seems pretty useless, but I should probably do some more research into polio as a disease and rethink that one.

Interesting to see that it's still around.
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky85 View Post
Even in third world countries where polio vaccination is well under way, polio continues to be epidemic. This was an interesting article in the Wall Street Journal: (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...239615022.html) Bill Gates' polio vaccination efforts haven't led to an eradication of the disease. They really need to focus on clean water and sanitation first.
This is absolutely not true.

The places where polio remained endemic were those where is remained nigh impossible to get near herd immunity. The basket cases of the world. Many poor countries that have high vaccination rates and poor access to water and sanitation (namely, places with less water but accessible populations and peaceful though controlled conditions, like Turkmenistan) have much healthier populations.

If you think that people aren't freaking breaking their backs working on water and sanitation every bloody day around the world, if you think that there is a SINGLE humanitarian or development office that does not have water and sanitation as its biggest operation besides the flagship program, you are wrong.

Water and sanitation is incredibly hard to get to people and more importantly, massively expensive to maintain. Cost-benefit-wise, vaccination makes way, way, way, way, WAY more sense.

I am really disgusted, to be honest, whenever anyone suggests that somehow, the UN and NGOs and humanitarians are taking the easy way out.

Vaccines are used because water and sanitation is not foolproof. Because people steal the raw materials, because water is just so damn valuable! You can't sell vaccines to the desperately poor, and rich people need only one, so vaccines are actually less corruptible than water.

Moreover, just a few years ago, polio was contained to four or five countries. Somalia, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, where else? In 2001, say. Sudan, possibly?

It has now spread as vaccines become less popular where anarchy is spreading, in particular the former USSR. It is a terrible tragedy.

I'd love to hear your cheap, easy way to get water to the people of Tajikistan when their rulers continually use it to sell electricity to American forces in Afghanistan, to bribe Uzbekistan for electricity and transport routes, and to irrigate their only cash crop and purify their only mineral resources, that they sell to buy villas for themselves in Switzerland.

That would be fascinating. Maybe we should just inform Tajiks that they need a revolution for democracy so that their water, pipes, and natural resources would not be stolen hand over fist, and sold for cash to enrich their "leaders"?

Oh, wait, THEY TRIED THAT. Water and Sanitation are going to be rrrreeeeeaaaal fun to work on when Russia closes its borders to Tajik migrant workers, and thus the cash equivalent of more than double or I think it was even ten times the amount of international aid being poured into the country. Yeah.

Water and sanitation in Khatlon Province while Afghan refugees swim across the freaking river as the Taliban encroach on the Tajik areas of the north... Been there, done that. Good luck.
post #12 of 36
yeah you can check out the charts in the MMWR report I posted and see that they saw these problems coming...vaccination rates were low in these areas and clustering was happening. These outbreaks were not a case of highly vaccinated populations getting polio...these outbreaks were and are examples of the perfect storm- unvaccinated clusters in countries boarding a polio endemic country, disease travel into those clusters and then travel and immigration into countries that do not boarder that original endemic country.

And, of course, we can trace a lot of issues to Nigeria and their rash decision to stop OPV vaccination and the explosion of polio that created.
post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
Moreover, just a few years ago, polio was contained to four or five countries. Somalia, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, where else? In 2001, say. Sudan, possibly?
In 2006, the endemic countries were down to Afghanistan, India, Nigeria, and Pakistan (where the list remains), after Niger and Egypt were knocked off. In 2001, the tally was these six plus Angola, Ethiopia, Sudan, and Somalia. Then the AIDS/sterilization rumors got traction, Kano State in Nigeria decided to stage itself a boycott, and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHO, 2005 Sept. 22
The 19 previously polio-free countries suffering importations of poliovirus as a result of the 2003-2005 outbreak in west and central Africa are: Angola, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, CĂ´te d'Ivoire, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guinea, Indonesia, Mali, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Togo and Yemen.
post #14 of 36
We're vax delayers, not really questioners (we accept that they work), but I think this news is terrifying. My DH also travels regularly and we're planning a family trip to Egypt in a few months. DD needs one more polio shot to be caught up and this is really scary.

And Edna Marie, I agree with so much of what you wrote. People working in development want healthy populations. Healthy populations with lower rates of child mortality are important for so many reasons (including national security and sustainability). Decent infrastructure is an excellent goal, but vaccines have a proven, evidence based history of working right now. It can be a "both and" situation rather than "either or".

Now, I'm going to put on my flame suit.
post #15 of 36
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml

Polio in Nigeria: doubling of cases caused by vaccine use:

Quote:
This year, the number of polio cases caused by the vaccine has doubled: 124 children have so far been paralyzed, compared to 62 in 2008, out of about 42 million children vaccinated. For every case of paralysis, there are hundreds of other children who don't develop symptoms, but pass on the disease.

Quote:
They have since identified polio cases linked to the vaccine dating back as far as 2005
post #16 of 36
Isn't the issue in Nigeria that they're using the live (oral) vaccine? Can someone explain how that pertains to the spread in the former countries of the USSR when the article linked at the beginning said that the increase in incidence is wild? I'm confused.
post #17 of 36
Of course, if you have high immunization rates, mutation of vaccine virus does not happen:

Quote:
But in rare instances, as the virus passes through unimmunized children, it can mutate into a strain dangerous enough to ignite new outbreaks, particularly if immunization rates in the rest of the population are low.
(also from your article)

mutated vaccine virus takes large populations of unvaccinated to happen; Nigeria's rash decision to suspend the vaccination campaigns caused a lot of this issue.

Quote:
"Nigeria is almost a case study in what happens when you don't follow the recommendations," Kew said.
post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freestylemama View Post
Isn't the issue in Nigeria that they're using the live (oral) vaccine? Can someone explain how that pertains to the spread in the former countries of the USSR when the article linked at the beginning said that the increase in incidence is wild? I'm confused.
No, Nigeria did have a lot of vaccine virus mutation cases, but the 100 or so of those is nothing compared to their WPV numbers. It was WPV they exported- and much of this was before mutation was happening.

and, again, you don't get vaccine virus mutation when you have high immunization rates. shutting down immunization is what doomed Nigeria and what caused the rapid spread into other polio free countries. it was only in the last year or so that those immunizations numbers started to go back up in areas of nigeria.


look at the MMWR link I posted, they have a pretty good break down of where the disease spread (not all of those were from nigeria). you can also see the path of infection from Nigeria here:

Quote:
As well, 13 other countries in Africa have been affected by poliovirus linked to Nigeria, including Benin, Botswana, Burkina-Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Côte d’Ivoire, Ethipia, Ghana, Guinea, Mali, and Togo.
http://www.who.int/countries/nga/are.../en/index.html
post #19 of 36
sorry for serial posting, trying to be clear with previous poster:

Nigeria caused outbreaks in many parts of Africa:

http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5814a1.htm


This is somewhat separate from the Tajikistan outbreak:
Quote:
On April 13, 2010, Tajikistan notified WHO of a sharp increase in reported acute flaccid paralysis (AFP) cases. On April 20, the designated WHO regional reference laboratory in Moscow, Russia, identified WPV type 1 (WPV1) in stool specimens from persons with AFP cases; the WPV1 was genetically most closely related to WPV1 isolated in Uttar Pradesh, India, in August 2009. As of November 1, 2010, Tajikistan had reported 458 laboratory-confirmed WPV1 cases from 35 of 61 administrative territories, with paralysis onset dates occuring February 1--July 4 (Figure 1). Ninety (20%) patients were aged <1 year, 208 (45%) were aged 1--4 years, 107 (23%) were aged 5--14 years, and 53 (12%) were aged ≥15 years. Early in the outbreak, the majority of cases were in children aged <5 years; after week 20, 78% of cases were in persons aged ≥5 years (Figure 1). Twenty-six (5.7%) patients died; 15 were aged <5 years, eight were aged 5--14 years, and three were aged ≥15 years.

The outbreak spread to three other polio-free countries,* where 18 cases were confirmed, bringing to 476 the total number of cases in the European Region (Figure 2). Russia reported 14 cases following at least five independent importations, with onsets during May 4--September 25 (confirmed May 31). Turkmenistan reported three cases in June (confirmed June 27), and Kazakhstan reported one case in August (confirmed October 5) (Table 1). Nine of these 18 patients were aged <5 years.
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml...cid=mm5943a1_w

Nigeria was being talked about as an example of a country that created spread and also was being talked about in relation to claims about OPV being the cause of these outbreaks.
post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
mutated vaccine virus takes large populations of unvaccinated to happen; Nigeria's rash decision to suspend the vaccination campaigns caused a lot of this issue.
See also here. The better news is that trivalent OPV seems to have things heading back down.
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