Any ideas?

[Stephenie]

So my 3.5 year old is bright. He's reading at least at mid-end of first grade level and in a period where that's just exploding. He loves science activities, math games (math is also about first grade level I would guess) and just generally loves to learn. When I don't provide him with intellectual stimulation, he goes nuts. He really needs to be challenged and busy, plus he has SPD and I can tell that he is really needing structure as well.

We homeschool and up to now it's been crafts, science experiments sporadically, plus starfall and lots and lots of reading. I had always wanted to kind of go with the flow and take an eclectic leaning towards unschooling kind of approach, but I am seeing how that won't work for him.

So I have looked into getting a homeschool curriculum, not planning on using it all, just what works for us/ his attention span etc. The problem is that anything pre-k is just so easy for him that it would be a waste and, honestly, it appears that the Kindergarten and even about half the first grade year for a lot of programs is made up of skills he has mastered (at least for reading and math.) So I would be looking at starting a first grade program with a 3 year old and just either skipping over the writing portions or do some of the writing for him (he can kind of write, but he's three and his motor skills are not there yet.) I just don't know if I am comfortable with first grade at three.

My other option is to find some sort of program (maybe a Waldorf one?) that just has a lot of activities to keep him busy that are just plain not academic and letting the academic stuff come naturally and with a few outside games, following the path we have so far. I am not sure if that would work for him either. He tends to bore of fairy tales and coloring etc pretty quickly.

Ideally, I would be able to come up with the amount of structure he seems to be looking for on my own, but I am struggling to do that and really want to find a program, book, something to give me guidance. Whatever I do, I plan on being flexible and remembering that no matter how bright he is, he's three-and needs lots of playtime etc... but I was wondering if anyone has btdt and has advice. I am hoping someone has an idea I haven't yet come up with.

FWIW, I do try really hard to just follow his interests etc (I now know more about airplanes that I ever cared to lol) but he really gets antsy and downright wild without several planned activities for the day.

I posted this here and not in homeschooling because I hoped people would understand a 3 year old at this level and not think I am someone who's pushing early academics. I really honestly never thought I would even consider purchasing packaged a curriculum at this age or even quite a bit older. This is just how he is and what he demands.

Sending him to preschool isn't an option for us for a variety of reasons (personality, SPD, money, etc) so please, even if you think it would be the best, it just isn't for us.

Thanks for any advice you may have!

[KCMichigan]

I would not buy a packaged program for him because you will not find anything that fits his needs. All the academic stuff at his level will require writing. I looked and looked and found little on programs that were made for 3-4 yr olds fine motorwise/socially and at a higher academic level ( K-2nd).

You may want to subscribe to some online things such as www.starfall.com (free no subscription needed), www.brainpop.com or other educational websites and build that into your day as well.

BTDT- right down to the SPD (one of my DD has SPD and gotten OT for it) At 3.5 & 4 my DDs were reading and doing simple math, had vast science vocabulary, etc. They had mastered K info with the exception of writing. We did some online academic appropriate activities (starfall, brainpop) that allowed them to do reading/math/puzzles at K-2nd+ grade level with no writing.

I would say set a schedule. Post it with picture clues & words--fulfill his need for routine. Allow for art time, science time,lunch, nap, lots of playtime, reading time, etc as much as you can. Be flexible day by day---but follow his lead. Set it up much like a preschool routine if you can but replace the formal activities with things at his level! That will make sure you can explore what he is interested in and still give him a set format each day.

From age 3-5 . We did themes. The girls picked a theme and we got tons of library books (fiction/non-fiction/high level & easy readers). I found simple crafts and online activities to do with them (we watched whale videos on youtube, make pinecone birdfeeders when talking about birds, cut out food pics from ads and made collages when talking about nutrition, made a giant dinosaur mural on the wall with dino stickers) for science and math. On days they wanted to skip things--fine, no worries, somedays we did a lot and some only one or two activities. We explored a subject until they were done (solar system lasted over a month, trains about 10 days) with it and lose interest.


This works for us...I do less now that they are in PreK. Although PreK does little for them academically, they are enjoying the social aspect and learning lots of social rules (how to treat friends, how to wait a turn, how to share, etc). Both girls fine motor skills are advancing and they are feeling less frustration at not being able to write as much as they 'know'.

Also see if you have a nature center or library time nearby. Those activities were great fun for my girls from 2.5-4. They are open ended, messy, kid friendly exploration opportunities!

Have fun!!

[Stephenie]

Thanks KCMichigan for your reply.
I've tried to do themes like that without much success. He works faster than I expect him to and will fly through what I hoped to be days worth of activities in one day. Maybe I need to plan more involved activities. And plan some library trips without both kids so that I can take more time to seek out materials. I have a hard time coming up with it all on my own (thus the desire for a curriculum) I did order a new book of science experiments. That should keep us busy for awhile .
Outside activities are hard for us, but I do try to get them in where we can. We only have one car and my husband works about 25 min away, so if I take the car we spend a lot of time in the car and use up lot of gas. Add that to the fact that even storytime at the library sends DS into sensory overload and a total meltdown and we have limited options. We do a lot of parks and the zoo, he's much better outdoors.

He loves starfall, I haven't heard of brainpop until now, off to check it out.
Thanks again.

[KCMichigan]

We also like the websites below for ideas to do: (me as a parent print off stuff or printable crafts- they do them) I usually use a mesh of these websites to get things to do.


http://www.dltk-teach.com/ (all free-- sorted by themes!!)

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/Home.html (some free, some subscription)

http://www.notimeforflashcards.com/crafts/by-theme (WONDERFUL blog of ideas!! sorted by age and/or themes)

http://abcteach.com/directory/childhood/booklets/ (printable books- easy to
harder)

and

http://www.ideasforpreschoolers.com/colors.php


Lots of good ideas to draw from. I usually print off a TON of ideas and printables, sort them by order or activity (paint, cut/paste/reading/etc) then if we run out....get some more! Some I make up on the fly. I try to do only one or two activities of each kind and spread them out (art in the am, a mini-book, then maybe a counting activity---we counted and sorted plastic dinosaurs the other day).

With some structure to the day, it spreads out. Each activity is really only 5-20 minutes- depending on interest and activity.

Our 'out of the house' activities are limited in the winter due to DD and the weather.

Also--out library will ship books to us (sometimes I get books for the girls after they are in bed and DH stays home).Would that work?

Hope this helps!!

[whatsnextmom]

I don't have a lot to offer as my own kids were not interested in traditional academics at that age. They had unusual interests like wanting to learn about ancient cultures, wanting to visit art museums and guess when artists painted what, spend hours at the zoo documenting what one single animal was doing, ect. I guess you could say we sort of did "unit studies" where they'd find some interest and we'd totally immerse in it until the interest changed. Niether had any interest in physical curriculum until about 5-years-old.

I just wanted to suggest thinking twice about Waldorf. It's so lovely in theory but we've yet to meet a gifted child who was happy there for long. Waldorf actively frowns upon early academics even when it's entirely child led. Even though my kids weren't interested in curriculum, they would have been frustrated in a preschool that didn't want them reading to themselves or writing letters to grandma (two things they really loved doing in preschool!) I would reccomend montessori or just a quality play-based preschool over Waldorf.

[expecting-joy]

I don't have a lot of specific advice, but I wanted to post just to lend some support. My 3.5 yo is also reading, probably at about the third grade level. Luckily she is a real self-starter and doesn't need me to provide her too much structure. She is also probably at the first or second grade level in math. What I have done is provided a lot of interesting and challenging (board and card) games, open-ended materials, art supplies, active and creative play resources. She adores writing and some of those workbook-type things. If you look you can find interesting ones without a lot of writing and instead a lot of drawing line to match or circling answers. I keep them on the shelf next to art supplies and she takes them out when she wants to do them. If you feel your child needs more stimulation, you might check out extra-curriculars in your area. My approach is to try and go broad instead of ahead. For us that has meant doing a lot of playdates and reading in other languages. Also, preschool has given her a different kind of stimulation, which she loves. She also enjoys things like swimming, gymnastics and ballet. We go to lots of parks and do obstacle courses and things like that at home. I would caution against overly directing your child's play/day. It's especially important for first/only children that figure out how to fill their time with interesting things.

[expecting-joy]

I would also caution against Waldorf. Some of the art is appealing, but our friends' experiences have been awful and beyond that the philosophy is really cultish.

[Greenmama2]

My other option is to find some sort of program (maybe a Waldorf one?) that just has a lot of activities to keep him busy that are just plain not academic and letting the academic stuff come naturally and with a few outside games, following the path we have so far. I am not sure if that would work for him either. He tends to bore of fairy tales and coloring etc pretty quickly.

I'm an unschooler at heart and my 4.5 year old DD sounds pretty similar to your son. A year ago I would of thought this was crazy for the reasons I bolded but now I'm actually considering buying a Waldorf curriculum. She and I get along so much better when we "have something to do" but I have no intentionof pushing academic stuff with her - I don't need to she does it herself. These days she loves fairy tales and creating art whereas even six months ago she had no interest in creating any kind of visual art. I understand why PPs have warned against Waldorf but I think just using a K/preschool curric to offer activities from is worlds away from sending a child to a school where they'll be shamed for wearing the wrong colour or using a black crayon.
DD really enjoys Singapore maths and for the longest time I simply offered to do the writing for her or asked her each time if she wanted to write the answer herself or not. She is writing now (as in spontaneously writing words, not coached) but she still prefers not to write numerals she finds tricky such as 2 and 5. Just recently I finally got the idea of using numeral stickers (still searching for a set of stamps which I think she would like even better) and she is enjoying not needing help even with writing anymore. I don't think there's anything wrong with skipping the writing or offering to do it for him. I've seen the way the fine motor skills just suddenly caught up with DD's knowledge of letters one day and I have faith the same thing will happen with numerals.

[MJB]

We used time4learning.com with my son at that age. It's a homeschooling program on the computer, so there's no writing. He whizzed through K and 1st grade math, and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade language arts, science and social studies in about 6 mos. He *loved* it. It's not a permanent solution but 6 mos. from now, or more, your son might be able to better handle preschool or some other option. My guy is now almost 5 and in kindergarten. His writing has improved dramatically in the 3 mos. he's been in school, and he's learning cursive in his free time.
We also did swim lessons, soccer, and gymnastics at 3 although soccer was an utter disaster at that age (he was very frustrated that the other kids didn't know the rules and they didn't play real games).

[Stephenie]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I was not talking about putting him in a Waldorf school, or any school for that matter. I just thought that maybe a curriculum that was play-based may add structure without academics that are below him intellectually or above his level of motor skills. A preschool or any outside activity with more than about 5 other kids is too much for him with his SPD. He melts down completely and it's not worth it for anyone at this point. The only place is sort of ok is Sunday school because the teachers get him, get SPD and there are usually only about 5 kids anyway. And even then, there are a lot of meltdowns and he takes all day to come down from it.

Here's an example of what I've tried-
This morning, I gave him some cut up pipecleaners to make letters out of. This was fun for him for about five minutes. Then I moved on to a Thanksgiving video and then a book. Then I had him color and read a printable book I got online. He had no desire to color it, so his little sister (19 months) colored it and he just read it. He then wanted to play in his ballpit, which I happily allowed. This was all in less than an hour. I now have two more activities planned and a whole day to keep him happy and occupied. As I am typing this he is asking for more. I am going to really try to drag out the nature walk, but it's before 8:00 am and I just don't know how to keep him happy all day.

[2xand2y]

I have a friend who has boxes with "jobs" in them. "Job" times are based on the child's age. At 3.5 they would probably last 10-15 minutes. In the beginning she had to work with her kids to know what to do with each box but now they do a pretty well.

Examples:
1- pipe cleaner letters: Pipe cleaners, index cards/flash cards showing capital and lower case letters, a favorite book. Make letters from the cards, make your name, make three words from the book. Build other things with the pipe cleaners. Her kids would know these are the things to "do" with the pipe cleaner box. If they got bored and came to her before time was up she would suggest the next job or say "try making a picture from the book with pipe cleaners".

2- small ball/marble box with cardboard tubes: lots of tape in this box, masking works well. She has a wall the kids are allowed to tape the tubes onto they also use chairs and blocks to make marble tracks. They like to race balls and count how long it takes and then do the same with marbles.

3- video and coloring- watch a video spend the "job" time drawing pictures of what you saw, what you wishes happened instead, or other "what if" scenarios. . anything to get the imagination pumping

4- blocks- they record how high they can build a single block stack, a double block stack, a pyramid. The next time blocks come out they try to break their record or come up with a new way to stack them

5- Book- with index cards with certain words, presented like a treasure hunt, see how many times you can find the word "ball" "red" etc- Count the capital letters.

6- Sorting- Sort manipulatives by size, color, texture etc-

I love spending time with this family. I know my friend puts a lot of effort into her boxes but her house is SO organized. Her day is usually:
get up, get ready, breakfast
"job" box while mommy cleans kitchen,
clean up that box (sometimes with mom, or not),
"job" box while mom does another chore,
clean up
leave the house for and errand/play group/park time/ library/ walk,
make lunch with mommy
eat
nap/quiet time (mom puts younger kid down for nap and starts dinner)
snack
Job, while mommy does chores
clean up
job
clean up
free play
get ready for dinner (clean up, set table)
outside play
dinner
hang out with daddy
get ready for bed

She sets a timer for the "jobs" and also for the clean up time. Which can take as long as the play time. Often they ask for the same job again. She has a four year old who loves to match socks so she puts a clothes basket of them in the "job" area, and a 2 1/2 year old who like to fold wash clothes/hand towels/kitchen towels. She has worked to get them slowly from 10 mins to 15 and is thinking of doing a 20 time for somethings.

[whatsnextmom]

I was not talking about putting him in a Waldorf school, or any school for that matter. I just thought that maybe a curriculum that was play-based may add structure without academics that are below him intellectually or above his level of motor skills.

The Waldorf curriculum would be fine because you could use the activities but not adopt the attitude lol. When you said you were looking at the Waldorf program, I assumed you meant school as I've never heard the curriculum being used outside the school.

[MJB]

Honestly, it's not your job to entertain him 24/7. From your most recent post, it sounds like he needs to learn to entertain himself at this age. Yes, he will get bored, and he probably will meltdown since this is new to him, but I'd actually go for less structure instead of more. You're setting him up for a lifetime of boredom if you keep him busy all the time at 3. Give him an environment rich in books, art supplies, puzzles, toys, and free time outdoors and he will learn to occupy himself. Gifted kids need to work on this skill just as much or more than a typical 3 yr. old.
I regularly tell my kids, "It's not my job to entertain you." At his age, it's not even your job to "keep him happy." He's a preschooler, not an infant, and some boredom/whining/crying is not going to hurt him.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by Stephenie

Thanks everyone for the replies.


Here's an example of what I've tried-
This morning, I gave him some cut up pipecleaners to make letters out of. This was fun for him for about five minutes. Then I moved on to a Thanksgiving video and then a book. Then I had him color and read a printable book I got online. He had no desire to color it, so his little sister (19 months) colored it and he just read it. He then wanted to play in his ballpit, which I happily allowed. This was all in less than an hour. I now have two more activities planned and a whole day to keep him happy and occupied. As I am typing this he is asking for more. I am going to really try to drag out the nature walk, but it's before 8:00 am and I just don't know how to keep him happy all day.

This sounds fine honestly.....at 3 that is about as long as the attention span of most 3 yr olds. You offered some activities- he participated as he saw fit. Every minute does not and should not be directed or planned. He will 'ask' for you to play all the time, most kids do. If he knows 'when' is mommy & him time and what is 'play by himself' time he will ask less and get to know when he needs to find something to do. At 3-- most kids attention span will not go past 10 minutes or so unless it is something that is very very high interest.

As PP stated, he does need to learn to entertain himself at times and at 3- should be practicing this skill. It takes time. Start slow for 5- 10 minutes while you tell him you are going to do_____. Creativity and pretend play is often learned through unstructured times.

To address the SPD: have you done a sensory diet at all?? (that also would help with the structure) Do you have a small trampoline or swing? I found that my SPD DD was able to focus for longer periods of time and play by her self after some 'physical' activity that dealt w/ the SPD issues.

[serenbat]

This sounds fine honestly.....at 3 that is about as long as the attention span of most 3 yr olds. You offered some activities- he participated as he saw fit. Every minute does not and should not be directed or planned. He will 'ask' for you to play all the time, most kids do. If he knows 'when' is mommy & him time and what is 'play by himself' time he will ask less and get to know when he needs to find something to do. At 3-- most kids attention span will not go past 10 minutes or so unless it is something that is very very high interest.

As PP stated, he does need to learn to entertain himself at times and at 3- should be practicing this skill. It takes time. Start slow for 5- 10 minutes while you tell him you are going to do_____. Creativity and pretend play is often learned through unstructured times.

--YES!

in addition we also do "stuff"-we do a lot of cooking, this means beside playtime and learning time we do work things as well, cutting of veggies, etc, measuring and mixing, etc plus basic work as well, cleaning, laundry, outside work-many things a 3+ can do with little help and this is not only alone time in a way but not just "playing" time

we don't do full structure time at this age with set things to do
most days we don't get everything done!

[eepster]

DS does great in a Montessori school, but I know some people do it as a homeschool thing.

Our cities recreation dept offers many classes for this age group. I have DS signed up for a dance class, a bowling league, and a gymnastics class. They also offer arts and crafts classes for preschoolers, but we can't do everything. The bowling has been especially good for DS's sensory needs.

I keep a number of activities available for DS to take out independently when ever he wants. One of his current favorites is origami. Things like construction paper, tape, and crayons are also just available to him. For some things I don't want him to have totally free access to (like scissors) I find harmless alternatives (instead of regular scissors he has fancy design scissors meant for scrapbooking, which won't cut his clothing, hair, or the couch {yes, I'm sure, he has tried them on the couch.})

We have memberships to several local museums and zoos, and the botanical gardens. They run all kinds of activities. The nature center also runs classes/activities. Local historical societies often have fun events like reenactments to attend.

One final thing, some times DS enjoy this website:
http://www.mhschool.com/math/mathcon...c1lesson1.html
even though we don't have any of the books from it, the games are fun.

[joensally]

What are you doing for his SPD? This sounds like it could be dysregulation in part.

[Stephenie]

I wasn't worried in any way by his attention span. If anything, the activities this am were not very well thought out activities for him. It also wasn't our typical day, we don't really have a very set schedule and I know that's a problem for him. I am trying to find the balance...

I like to have ideas ready when he's bored and would love to spread them out throughout the day. I am just bad at guessing how much time it will take and I am also bad about giving it all to him at once. When he finishes one activity, if he sees a printout etc that I have for later, he wants it now.

He does have some issues entertaining himself... part of it is that he needs close supervision to play with his sister... he sits on her, jumps on her, tries to carry her etc (he is a sensory seeker) and most unstructured time tends to end up going that direction, or he tears things apart. That or petering me with 1000 questions about dinosaurs' teeth, how airplanes fly or asking for help reading. Or just wants me to read to him (fine, I love to) but he'd sit for hours being read to.

He does participate in the day to day stuff, cleaning, cooking etc when he wants to and I try to encourage him to help me measure etc. He loves to cook with me. It stresses me out, honestly, I would much rather cook alone, but I do have him help me most days.

I wish that he would, say play legos for awhile by himself, but he just won't. He will if I play with him, or his sister, but she does it "wrong" and he yells at her. He is particular as to how the legos must be, creating patterns that you can't disturb and she will "mess it up" and he gets really mad. But if I try and keep her busy and away from the legos, he wants her to come play, or me to come play.

He will do sensory play alone. We have a ball pit and he will get in there and chew on his "chewies" and read a book or he'll jump on the bed (mattress on the floor, wish we had a trampoline but we don't) etc but that is the only play I can get him to initiate and maintain on his own.

We don't do a lot for his SPD right now, other than that and lots of running around outside/ spinning/ crashing etc. We can't get OT covered by insurance, the school district didn't pan out etc. We actually moved across the country in large part because my husband was offered insurance with "100% coverage" and we thought it would be great for him, his therapies his neurologist apts (he has other neuro issues as well) and we found out after we got here that our OT had a cap that would allow for about one month of visits. I don't want him to get set up with an OT and just have to stop as soon as he got comfortable there. It's a really, really frustrating situation.

I like the "job box" idea and may try to set up a few of those and see if he will play alone if it's more structured play like that. I've also wanted to look into some Montessori at home ideas as I have heard good things about Montessori for both gifted and SPD kids.

Thanks everyone for your ideas and advice. I know we need to change how things are working in our house, just not sure what to do.

[2xand2y]

I'm glad you found my post helpful. I was beginning to think I was really off base and should have kept my mouth shut. You've gotten lots of great suggestions and I hope you are able to find something that "fits" and makes day-to-day life a bit easier.

[Roar]

It seems like a lot of the suggestions were links to websites. I think that is a bad plan to focus on online solutions. It won't help his sensory regulation. And, it may make it harder for him to develop the ability to self entertain.

I agree you don't have to entertain him 24/7. And, it is fine if lots of the time you spend with him is on housework, cooking, etc. But, at the same time I think you are on the right track that some activities may help. At that age our son really enjoyed having some set activities every day.

Here are my ideas:
Take a look at the books by Peggy Kaye. Games for Math, Games for Reading, etc. Your library probably has them and if not there are lots of cheap used copies out there. They are intended for k-4ish but probably many of the activities would be appropriate for his age. Often her ideas are very simple, low preparation type activities but she explains them well and our child really enjoyed many of them.

The Out of Sync Child has Fun: Many sensory activities. They may help with sensory regulation and just be something fun to do.

Obstacle courses or activity stations. Use little soccer cones or some other kind of marker to let him go through a set of activities. So, station one might be something like - toss all the beanbags in the basket, station two jump up and down ten times, etc. This takes five minutes to put together max and it can be lots of fun especially if he's reading and can guide himself through it.

Card and board games. Uno. War with cards. Yahtzee when he's ready for it.

A mini trampoline is great for sensory stuff. Give him math problems and he can jump out the answer - like what's 10-5 - jump five times.

Have him dictate stories - you can type or write them out, he can illustrate if he likes to color or skip that if he doesn't. You can three hole punch them, and place between two pieces of cardstock or construction paper. This was a favorite activity at our house from ages 3-5. You will love to have them around years from now.

Books on tape from the library - he can read along in a book. Gentle and calm activity in a way that the computer isn't.

If you want to buy stuff that is closer to curriculum I'd suggest you might want to look at Five in a Row. Miquon math is great. It is for approximately K-4 but there is a huge amount of depth there.