Co-ed sleepovers? - Page 2

[Linda on the move]

I had a couple of other thoughts. On the explaining why it is that you trust him and yet still are saying no, I'd tell him that you trust if there was a real reason for her to spend the night, you trust that he would behave well. Yet we are all best off when we set ourselves up to do what we consider to be the right thing. I think there is a real life lesson in here for him that applies to lots of other situations. Sometimes people end up doing things that they didn't intend to because they put themselves in a situation and allowed things to get out of control. It's ego. It's believing that we are sooooo good, that we need not be careful.

The truth is that we are all capable of doing things we consider undesirable.

The other thing that I would talk to him about is that girls sometimes come onto boys, and that it's OK to say no and to put a stop to things. I think that's a very hard concept for many young men. There is soooo much cultural pressure on boys that sexual experience is desirable, plus it feels impolite to tell a girl no. It sounds like the conversation you guys had was about whether or not HE would behave. I think it's time to talk about the fact that girls are curious too.

If he and his friend don't already, I'd encourage some nice long evenings where they can hang out and watch movies or play games until midnight. But then I'd drive the girl home!

Edited by Linda on the move - 11/10/10 at 7:43am

[krisnic]

Good post Linda. I really like the way you worded everything. And yes, we had the conversation about girl's being curious as well. He sees my point now and has dropped it for the time being. I think the part about not putting ourselves in situations that could go bad is a good aspect. We have talked about parties. I won't let him go because I don't want him to be in a bad situation. He understands that. So I think he would understand this as well. Thanks for your help!

[EFmom]

No, I wouldn't allow it.

I'm an atheist, but to borrow a phrase from my Catholic upbringing, it's a "near occasion of sin."

 There's no real need for her to sleep over, and to my way of thinking, it's going out of your way to look for trouble.

[Honey693]

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

[Linda on the move]

14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.

I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.

I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.

So replace car with empty movie theatre.  I know many many people who used movie theatres instead of parking.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by Honey693 

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.

I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.

So replace car with empty movie theatre.  I know many many people who used movie theatres instead of parking.

My kiddo isn't going to be in a dark movie theater by herself with a boyfriend at 14, either, so your argument doesn't work with me. I'm sure it's cultural, as dh is from the Middle East, but we'll allow dd to go out in groups for a couple of years and when she's 17 or 18, she can start having one-on-one dates.  I know that makes us seem very old-fashioned, but we WILL respect the cultural beliefs of dh's family as much as we can within the framework of raising a daughter in America.  Where he is from, a girl is never even alone with a man until they are engaged.  Obviously, that's too extreme for the US, but I don't believe for ONE MINUTE that kids won't totally take advantage of a sleepover.  Saying that they'd rather make out in a semi-public place like a parking lot or movie theater and not try anything on a sleepover is not just absurd, it's naïve.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by velochic 

My kiddo isn't going to be in a dark movie theater by herself with a boyfriend at 14, either, so your argument doesn't work with me.

same here, and I have a 14 year old DD!

My kids are well supervised. We will deal with dating when it comes up, which hasn't happened. I don't understand making it easy for kids who aren't even old enough to date to have sex. That makes absolutely NO sense to me.

The parents I see doing a good job with kids this age with boyfriend/girlfriend situations do things like drive them to the skate rink and then stay in the snack bar and read a book. They let the kids have fun together in a safe situation. They stay in the back ground, but the kids are still supervised.

[karne]

Yup, that's us--reading a book in the dark, providing a silent support, but definitely a presence.  We don't have dating here-too young.  But we do have group get togethers,.

[Mom2Brendan]

I would prefer co-ed sleep overs when kids are younger . My son is only 6 and he has asked many times if his friend whose a girl to spend the night . I wouldn't have the problem with it because you don't have to worry about intimate risk in that group age .

But many parents are just uneasy of a 'too early sleep over  especially with the opposite sex .

Teens are more at risk of intimate relations our neighbor daughter who is only 15 a sophmore in highschool  and she's pregnant !   She's so busy taking care of her 3 siblings and one of them are special needs because their mother is nearly gone all the time or sleeping.

It's like that 15 yr old girl is a single mom of 3 with one on the way  and she still found the time to be intimate .

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Honey693 

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.

I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.

So replace car with empty movie theatre.  I know many many people who used movie theatres instead of parking.

Or they sneak away from the group when hanging out with friends, or cut class, or really do a number of other things in order to be alone. Unless you are on their tale 24/7 you can't know when they are about to have sex and stop them.

Someone who doesn't feel comfortable with co-ed sleep overs is allowed to not allow them. But truth be told, there is a much better way to protect your children than always being no more than x number of feet away. That would be education and talking and helping them understand that they don't have to do something just because they want to or someone else wants them to and there are ways to put a stop to that kind of situation.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by Honey693 

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier.  I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point.  It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it."  It's a matter of not providing the opportunity.  With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect. 

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

Originally Posted by Honey693 

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier.  I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point.  It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it."  It's a matter of not providing the opportunity.  With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect. 

And really, what are the chances of that happening when the parents are right upstairs? The reason that having rules about when and where they can be and who has to be with them doesn't stop teens from having sex is because it's not all about in the moment happenings. There is often planning that goes into how to do it.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

Originally Posted by Honey693 

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier.  I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point.  It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it."  It's a matter of not providing the opportunity.  With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect. 

And really, what are the chances of that happening when the parents are right upstairs? The reason that having rules about when and where they can be and who has to be with them doesn't stop teens from having sex is because it's not all about in the moment happenings. There is often planning that goes into how to do it.

For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%.  Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties".  It does happen.  And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do.  It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences.  When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.

There is a HUGE difference between giving your children the tools to think through these decisions vs. offering up on a golden platter the opportunity to let all of that teaching go down the drain in a flash of hormones.  Teaching them is one thing... providing the opportunity is another.  You don't have to keep your eye on them 24/7, but you don't have to pretend that a sleepover is absolutely always going to be "platonic".

I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).
 

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by velochic 

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

Originally Posted by Honey693 

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier.  I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point.  It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it."  It's a matter of not providing the opportunity.  With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect. 

And really, what are the chances of that happening when the parents are right upstairs? The reason that having rules about when and where they can be and who has to be with them doesn't stop teens from having sex is because it's not all about in the moment happenings. There is often planning that goes into how to do it.

For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%.  Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties".  It does happen.  And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do.  It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences.  When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.

There is a HUGE difference between giving your children the tools to think through these decisions vs. offering up on a golden platter the opportunity to let all of that teaching go down the drain in a flash of hormones.  Teaching them is one thing... providing the opportunity is another.  You don't have to keep your eye on them 24/7, but you don't have to pretend that a sleepover is absolutely always going to be "platonic".

I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).
 

But did they provide the tools your niece needed to make other decisions? There is a difference between a teen with complete and factual information about sex and knowledge of how to acquire or access to birth control. I know plenty of people who, as teens, were allowed sleepovers. With people they were dating even, and only one got pregnant as a teen and she doesn't think she ruined her life.

And I'm sorry, but someone who claims, as an adult, that her parents were responsible for what she did at 15 still has some growing up to do. As in realizing that in the end they were her choices. As is often pointed out by the abstinence crowd, teens can and do make the choice not to have sex even in the heat of the moment. It still comes down to whether or not they have the tools they need to make the choice that is right for them. On the other hand, if she was rape at one of the parties, then in the end it's the fault of boy who did it.

That being said, maybe she needs to stop thinking of it in the sense of a ruined life. A child at 15, 16, 17 is not a horrible thing unless you make it one. You being not just the mom in question but those closest to her as well.

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

Originally Posted by Honey693 

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here.  Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc.  And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not.  It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents.  When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room).  I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.

Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier.  I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point.  It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it."  It's a matter of not providing the opportunity.  With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect. 

And really, what are the chances of that happening when the parents are right upstairs? The reason that having rules about when and where they can be and who has to be with them doesn't stop teens from having sex is because it's not all about in the moment happenings. There is often planning that goes into how to do it.

Well, I have biological proof sitting upstairs that the chances are 100%.  Except that the parents weren't upstairs, they were in the next room, and it wasn't a sleepover, it was a couple hours after school in a room with a door mostly closed. 

[happysmileylady]

Originally Posted by velochic 

For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%.  Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties".  It does happen.  And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do.  It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences.  When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.

There is a HUGE difference between giving your children the tools to think through these decisions vs. offering up on a golden platter the opportunity to let all of that teaching go down the drain in a flash of hormones.  Teaching them is one thing... providing the opportunity is another.  You don't have to keep your eye on them 24/7, but you don't have to pretend that a sleepover is absolutely always going to be "platonic".

I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).
 

I totally agree (well except for the part about a baby meaning a ruined life)

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

But did they provide the tools your niece needed to make other decisions? There is a difference between a teen with complete and factual information about sex and knowledge of how to acquire or access to birth control. I know plenty of people who, as teens, were allowed sleepovers. With people they were dating even, and only one got pregnant as a teen and she doesn't think she ruined her life.

And I'm sorry, but someone who claims, as an adult, that her parents were responsible for what she did at 15 still has some growing up to do. As in realizing that in the end they were her choices. As is often pointed out by the abstinence crowd, teens can and do make the choice not to have sex even in the heat of the moment. It still comes down to whether or not they have the tools they need to make the choice that is right for them. On the other hand, if she was rape at one of the parties, then in the end it's the fault of boy who did it.

That being said, maybe she needs to stop thinking of it in the sense of a ruined life. A child at 15, 16, 17 is not a horrible thing unless you make it one. You being not just the mom in question but those closest to her as well.

I can tell you that my parents did provide the right tools.  I certainly was not misinformed or anything of the sort.  I simply, like most teens, never thought it would happen to me. 

And yeah, there are teens who can and do make the right choices in the heat of the moment.  However, I would never want to provide a golden opportunity to test out which choices my own child would make when the consequences can be SO major. 
 

[MusicianDad]

I guess I just have a little more faith in teens. I also don't consider teens choosing to have sex to always be the wrong choice.

[sweet.p]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

I guess I just have a little more faith in teens. I also don't consider teens choosing to have sex to always be the wrong choic

Musician dad how old are you sexually active adolescents?   

I have been the mother of that 15 year old teenage girl asked to sleep over a boys house who were "friends".

The parents did NOT call me to ask if this was okay! 

[EFmom]

A baby at 15, 16, 17 would most emphatically be my definition of "ruining your life."  I understand that some people feel differently and I have no problem with that, but I would absolutely be devastated if my dd gave birth to a  child at that age.  And I know too many people who were in that situation and what the outcomes were like to ever want that for my child.

I do believe in very comprehensive sex ed, and strive to keep the lines of communication open with my kids.  While it's no guarantee, providing opportunities for them to get pregnant at a young age just seems like going out of your way to find trouble to me.