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Co-ed sleepovers? - Page 4

post #61 of 99

I don't see how allowing them to sleep in separate rooms is giving them any opportunities they don't have somewhere else.  That said, I don't think I would have let my kids have a bf/gf sleep over at that age though.  My older two have their gf's stay overnight in their rooms all the time now though.  iirc it started around age 17/18.  They seemed to sense before that it would be a no-go I guess.

post #62 of 99
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post


 

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Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post

For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%.  Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties".  It does happen.  And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do.  It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences.  When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.

 

There is a HUGE difference between giving your children the tools to think through these decisions vs. offering up on a golden platter the opportunity to let all of that teaching go down the drain in a flash of hormones.  Teaching them is one thing... providing the opportunity is another.  You don't have to keep your eye on them 24/7, but you don't have to pretend that a sleepover is absolutely always going to be "platonic".

 

I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).
 


But did they provide the tools your niece needed to make other decisions? There is a difference between a teen with complete and factual information about sex and knowledge of how to acquire or access to birth control. I know plenty of people who, as teens, were allowed sleepovers. With people they were dating even, and only one got pregnant as a teen and she doesn't think she ruined her life.

 

And I'm sorry, but someone who claims, as an adult, that her parents were responsible for what she did at 15 still has some growing up to do. As in realizing that in the end they were her choices. As is often pointed out by the abstinence crowd, teens can and do make the choice not to have sex even in the heat of the moment. It still comes down to whether or not they have the tools they need to make the choice that is right for them. On the other hand, if she was rape at one of the parties, then in the end it's the fault of boy who did it.

 

That being said, maybe she needs to stop thinking of it in the sense of a ruined life. A child at 15, 16, 17 is not a horrible thing unless you make it one. You being not just the mom in question but those closest to her as well.


She was on birth control (the pill), without her parents' knowledge for BOTH pregnancies.  Birth control fails.  And yes, even now she has some growing up to do and she's nearly 30.

 

I'm saying that as a parent, you don't have to provide the opportunity.  To think that a sleepover at 14/15 years old is going to be innocent is ridiculous.  And I doubt anyone here would condone an active sexual relationship at this age for any couple.  It's no different than letting a 2 year old who likes to put thing in their mouth play with marbles.  We're not talking about 18 year olds here... we're talking about 14 year old.  There is a HUGE difference.


Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.

post #63 of 99

They can have all the opportunities they can find - but not in my home. Certainly not other people's children.

 

Diff'rent strokes.

post #64 of 99
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Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post



Quote:

I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.

It's both and more.  It's fear of STDs, it's fears of one party being taken advantage of and hurt emotionally, it's fear of all sorts of consequences of sex that teens may not fully realize that we as parents want to help them avoid.  I think if a parent has any reason to suspect that their child might be gay, then of course same gender sleep overs should be avoided as well.  However, since the majority of the human race is interested in the opposite sex, it makes sense to automatically be concerned about co ed sleepovers first. 

 

 

It's not just gay teens that have sex at single sex sleepovers. Maybe they sneak opposite sex friends into the house, or they sneak out of the house.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that if a teenager wants to have sex, they will have sex, unless you are willing to handcuff yourself to them. 

post #65 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.


But you do realize that's unusual, right? For the most part, those don't tend to be long relationships.

 

I think you sound like a wonderful parent in many, many ways, but I wonder if you really understand the fallout for many girls when their boyfriend, who they've been sleeping with, dumps them and starts sleeping with someone else. I think you are kinda seeing this through rose colored glasses.

 

 

 

 

 

post #66 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post

I don't think anyone is saying it's ideal.  I think there's a whole lot of grey area between "ideal" and "ruin your life."


Agreed, and I like the way you said that. Years ago I meet a really awesome woman who had her son very young, and she was such a great AP mom and her little boy was so precious. Her life wasn't ruined and sweet child wasn't a mistake.

 

But her life was hard. Very hard. 

 

and it just isn't the path I would chose for my child

 

but a baby is still a blessing, even if the timing is far from perfect

post #67 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.


But you do realize that's unusual, right? For the most part, those don't tend to be long relationships.

 

I think you sound like a wonderful parent in many, many ways, but I wonder if you really understand the fallout for many girls when their boyfriend, who they've been sleeping with, dumps them and starts sleeping with someone else. I think you are kinda seeing this through rose colored glasses.

 

 

 

 

 


Yeah but even if a relationship doesn't last, sex is not always a horrible bad thing. 

 

And rose coloured glasses? Really? Because I happen to know that sex/babies/intense emotional relationships when your a teen are not always as horrible as society would have you believe? Why can't we just accept the fact that things are just not as black and white as "teen sex is bad and no teen sex is good".

post #68 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Yeah but even if a relationship doesn't last, sex is not always a horrible bad thing. 

 

And rose coloured glasses? Really? Because I happen to know that sex/babies/intense emotional relationships when your a teen are not always as horrible as society would have you believe? Why can't we just accept the fact that things are just not as black and white as "teen sex is bad and no teen sex is good".



I have to agree with you. I became sexually active at 15. Nothing bad happened. Nobody ever once called me a slut.

 

We had some teenage drama over the couple years we dated and before we graduated high school I was realizing we had different goals so I broke up with him, but I actually think I learned some good personal relationship skills from that experience.

post #69 of 99
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Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.


But you do realize that's unusual, right? For the most part, those don't tend to be long relationships.

 

I think you sound like a wonderful parent in many, many ways, but I wonder if you really understand the fallout for many girls when their boyfriend, who they've been sleeping with, dumps them and starts sleeping with someone else. I think you are kinda seeing this through rose colored glasses.

 

 

 

 

 


Yeah but even if a relationship doesn't last, sex is not always a horrible bad thing. 

 

And rose coloured glasses? Really? Because I happen to know that sex/babies/intense emotional relationships when your a teen are not always as horrible as society would have you believe? Why can't we just accept the fact that things are just not as black and white as "teen sex is bad and no teen sex is good".


ITTA with Musician Dad. Although I would prefer my daughter not be sexually active as a teen, it doesn't mean it has to be disastrous if she does. I know a lot of folks from HS who had sex, and came through it unscathed. Of course, I also know some who really had a rough go of it - in life-altering ways. It is a very emotional decision, and a very personal one. Hopefully, your child (son OR daughter) and you have a good enough relationship where s/he is comfortable enough to not only talk to you, but at least take your thoughts under consideration.

 

Both of mine are pretty level-headed and are waiting for the right person with whom to take that step. My daughter (who is still <18) knows that she can come talk to me w/o my freaking out, and that I will make sure she is safe when she is ready. Right now, she's not - and has told me AND her b/f that. He's a nice kid and is in the same place in that regard (from what she says of their conversations). She's said to me "If he cares about me, he'll wait. If he wants to pressure me? Then he doesn't really care about me, and he's not the right guy to do it with." Wise words for a 16yo.

post #70 of 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Originally Posted by velochic View Post

 

I'm saying that as a parent, you don't have to provide the opportunity.  To think that a sleepover at 14/15 years old is going to be innocent is ridiculous.  And I doubt anyone here would condone an active sexual relationship at this age for any couple.  It's no different than letting a 2 year old who likes to put thing in their mouth play with marbles.  We're not talking about 18 year olds here... we're talking about 14 year old.  There is a HUGE difference.


Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.

 

You *are* the exception and not the rule.  In your case, it has worked out wonderfully (and it sounds like your father, taking a chance, made a good decision to support the relationship), but that is not how it usually ends up, especially when there is such an age difference at that stage in life.  If it had not turned out so well for you, if your dh had moved on to someone else, would you have fared so well?  That's what happens 99% of the time at your age when the relationship started - the two people move on and often it is at the expense of one of them.  You may have been lucky because your dh was an adult at the time (not that I condone 15 year olds getting involved with adults in their 20s), but the dynamics of your relationship is not usual in any way shape or form and can't be used as a benchmark.  We're talking about two 14 year old kids who may have an attraction to each other.  If they're really going to have sex, you can provide the education of safe sex, and be there when/if they fall, but you don't have to give them carte blanche as if they were in a long-term adult relationship.  You can't use one single data point (your experience) to base these things upon.  You have to look at the big picture.
 

post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post

We're talking about two 14 year old kids who may have an attraction to each other. 

 



I think that's a key point. 

 

Is everyone here under the impression that teenagers are so hormone crazy that they are attracted to every single person of the opposite sex? Boys and girls can't be friends? Most of my friends in high school were boys. 

 

There are four girls my sons are very chummy with. They've been friends for six years. None of them have ever dated each other. One of them briefly had a crush on my older DS, but he didn't feel the same way about her. I have no problems with any of these girls crashing on our couch.

 

When we have co-ed sleepovers, it's often because our friends all live in different cities and it's not so easy to get home at the end of the day. The buses have limited service to certain areas, and parents aren't always available to play chauffeur. Sometimes it's planned ahead, like for a birthday party. 

 

I'm curious, also, having just the two boys.....what do you all do if your son wants his friend to sleep over and you also have a daughter that's close in age? My friend has a boy and girl, 13 months apart. They are in the same grade at school and therefore know all the same people. Should she not allow either of them to have slumber parties?

post #72 of 99

I'll leave he word "bad" alone, as it describes young teens having sex.  But how about life altering?  This is how I think of it.  This age isn't that far off for our family.  I really would not want to give the message that it's OK, or healthy, or facilitate the circumstances myself.  It simply is not the life changing experience I would want for my dd at that age.  It truly is life changing, IMO, because no relationship you have after that (and at that age  there will probably be many), will be quite the same.  That's just how it is.

 

At risk of sounding like a seriously conservative old fart here, I want a different life for my kid than being sexually active in the early teen years.  I don't want her to have that level of emotional intensity, responsibility, and frankly, relationship, taking up her time.  It doesn't mean it won't happen-I know that.  And I certainly would be available for any support, information--we do that already.  But I'm not going to clear the way because in my view, it's not a good thing.  It doesn't a all mean that I don't value or respect my child either.  

post #73 of 99
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post



Quote:


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Originally Posted by velochic View Post

 

I'm saying that as a parent, you don't have to provide the opportunity.  To think that a sleepover at 14/15 years old is going to be innocent is ridiculous.  And I doubt anyone here would condone an active sexual relationship at this age for any couple.  It's no different than letting a 2 year old who likes to put thing in their mouth play with marbles.  We're not talking about 18 year olds here... we're talking about 14 year old.  There is a HUGE difference.


Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.

 

You *are* the exception and not the rule.  In your case, it has worked out wonderfully (and it sounds like your father, taking a chance, made a good decision to support the relationship), but that is not how it usually ends up, especially when there is such an age difference at that stage in life.  If it had not turned out so well for you, if your dh had moved on to someone else, would you have fared so well?  That's what happens 99% of the time at your age when the relationship started - the two people move on and often it is at the expense of one of them.  You may have been lucky because your dh was an adult at the time (not that I condone 15 year olds getting involved with adults in their 20s), but the dynamics of your relationship is not usual in any way shape or form and can't be used as a benchmark.  We're talking about two 14 year old kids who may have an attraction to each other.  If they're really going to have sex, you can provide the education of safe sex, and be there when/if they fall, but you don't have to give them carte blanche as if they were in a long-term adult relationship.  You can't use one single data point (your experience) to base these things upon.  You have to look at the big picture.
 



I am looking at the bigger picture. It tells me that you can't assume that a relationship a teen has, even if said teen has sex, is going to be a horrible experience. I have more than just my experiences to go off of. I know very few people who regret having sex as a teen. 

 

There is no usual for teen relationships, there are far to many variables to make assumptions. All I know is that promoting the idea to teens that a sexual relationship at that age is a bad idea is a sure fire way to make said teen ashamed and less likely to seek help if something does go awry.

 

And just a note, DH wasn't in his 20's when we got together. He's only 3 years older than I am. He also wasn't my first, and neither I nor the other person were harmed in the ended of our relationship.

post #74 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post

I'm curious, also, having just the two boys.....what do you all do if your son wants his friend to sleep over and you also have a daughter that's close in age? My friend has a boy and girl, 13 months apart. They are in the same grade at school and therefore know all the same people. Should she not allow either of them to have slumber parties?


I have one of each. 2 years and a bit apart. He really only had one guy friend he wanted to have stay over when they were teens - and he was more like a brother to my two than anything else. For a while, #2 had a crush on him, and we kept the boys' sleepovers to his house. Same when he later developed a crush on her and they dated casually.

 

It really comes down to common sense, IMO.

post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post



Quote:

I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.

It's both and more.  It's fear of STDs, it's fears of one party being taken advantage of and hurt emotionally, it's fear of all sorts of consequences of sex that teens may not fully realize that we as parents want to help them avoid.  I think if a parent has any reason to suspect that their child might be gay, then of course same gender sleep overs should be avoided as well.  However, since the majority of the human race is interested in the opposite sex, it makes sense to automatically be concerned about co ed sleepovers first. 

 

 

It's not just gay teens that have sex at single sex sleepovers. Maybe they sneak opposite sex friends into the house, or they sneak out of the house.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that if a teenager wants to have sex, they will have sex, unless you are willing to handcuff yourself to them. 


Just so you know, you are talking with someone who had a LOT of sex between the ages of 16 and 18.  I am perfectly aware that if a teen wants to have sex, they are going to find a way.  I certainly did, in lots of different places.  Of course there are kids that can and will sneak out of the house (of course, then they aren't having sex AT the sleepover, are they?) 

 

I think however that you are entirely missing the point.  The point is NOT that we don't believe that teens will find a way to have sex.  It's that we don't think it makes ANY sense to provide a hormonal, sexually immature TEENAGER a GOLDEN opportunity to get themselves into a situation that can have very serious consequences. 

 

Sure, there COULD be some very awesome consequences, obviously you have experienced them.  However, risks far outweigh any potential benefits for teens having sex.  A teen is far more likely to be hurt by someone taking advantage of them and using them just for sex than they are to be having sex with the person they will spend the rest of their life with.  

 

And you know, yes, there are millions of teens who have sex who experience only minor consequences.  They aren't taken advantage of, they don't get a disease, they don't get pg/get a girl pg, etc etc.  But, why risk any of that by giving the teen a chance to test their impulse control. 

post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post



Quote:

I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.

It's both and more.  It's fear of STDs, it's fears of one party being taken advantage of and hurt emotionally, it's fear of all sorts of consequences of sex that teens may not fully realize that we as parents want to help them avoid.  I think if a parent has any reason to suspect that their child might be gay, then of course same gender sleep overs should be avoided as well.  However, since the majority of the human race is interested in the opposite sex, it makes sense to automatically be concerned about co ed sleepovers first. 

 

 

It's not just gay teens that have sex at single sex sleepovers. Maybe they sneak opposite sex friends into the house, or they sneak out of the house.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that if a teenager wants to have sex, they will have sex, unless you are willing to handcuff yourself to them. 


Just so you know, you are talking with someone who had a LOT of sex between the ages of 16 and 18.  I am perfectly aware that if a teen wants to have sex, they are going to find a way.  I certainly did, in lots of different places.  Of course there are kids that can and will sneak out of the house (of course, then they aren't having sex AT the sleepover, are they?) 

 

I think however that you are entirely missing the point.  The point is NOT that we don't believe that teens will find a way to have sex.  It's that we don't think it makes ANY sense to provide a hormonal, sexually immature TEENAGER a GOLDEN opportunity to get themselves into a situation that can have very serious consequences. 

 

Sure, there COULD be some very awesome consequences, obviously you have experienced them.  However, risks far outweigh any potential benefits for teens having sex.  A teen is far more likely to be hurt by someone taking advantage of them and using them just for sex than they are to be having sex with the person they will spend the rest of their life with.  

 

And you know, yes, there are millions of teens who have sex who experience only minor consequences.  They aren't taken advantage of, they don't get a disease, they don't get pg/get a girl pg, etc etc.  But, why risk any of that by giving the teen a chance to test their impulse control. 


First, how can you expect teens to have the tools to make the choices that are right for them, when you come from the point of view that the only right choice is no sex. Every teen is different. There is no one right answer.

 

Second, most of the people I know who were allowed opposite sex sleep overs did not have sex during those sleep overs.

 

Third, anyone can be taken advantage of in regards to sex, or be hurt because of it.

 

Fourth, just because you aren't going to be spending the rest of your life with someone doesn't mean the sex is bad choice or going to result in some sort of emotional pain.

 

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

 

One last thing, does anyone actually remember my first post in this thread? Because I distinctly remember saying that if parents aren't comfortable with these sleep overs then they are allowed to not have them.

 

All that being said, sex positivity is the way we chose to go, the biggest reason being that everyone I know who has come from that type of household has never had a problem saying no when they didn't want to have sex and most were out of high school before becoming sexually active. 

post #77 of 99

It feels like the debate is being framed as no sex versus allowing/expecting sexual activity, in young teens. The OP has a 14 y/o ds--14 is a young teen, not an older teen, in my book.  I don't think that the issue is trying to control teens as much as it is trying to guide teens.  I believe that you can have a positive attitude about sex without wanting your younger teen to be sexually active.  There is a time for most things in life-who can fault a parent who would wish that sexual activity, and all of the resulting potential issues, was not part of a young teens life?

post #78 of 99



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

First, how can you expect teens to have the tools to make the choices that are right for them, when you come from the point of view that the only right choice is no sex. Every teen is different. There is no one right answer.

 

Second, most of the people I know who were allowed opposite sex sleep overs did not have sex during those sleep overs.

 

Third, anyone can be taken advantage of in regards to sex, or be hurt because of it.

 

Fourth, just because you aren't going to be spending the rest of your life with someone doesn't mean the sex is bad choice or going to result in some sort of emotional pain.

 

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

 

One last thing, does anyone actually remember my first post in this thread? Because I distinctly remember saying that if parents aren't comfortable with these sleep overs then they are allowed to not have them.

 

All that being said, sex positivity is the way we chose to go, the biggest reason being that everyone I know who has come from that type of household has never had a problem saying no when they didn't want to have sex and most were out of high school before becoming sexually active. 

Spot on. I have never regretted any of my casual sexual activity. I honestly have never heard anyone I know express regret about having been sexually active as a teen. I see sex as a natural part of growing up rather than some kind of ticking time bomb that must be prevented at all costs.

 

post #79 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by karne View Post

It feels like the debate is being framed as no sex versus allowing/expecting sexual activity, in young teens. The OP has a 14 y/o ds--14 is a young teen, not an older teen, in my book.  I don't think that the issue is trying to control teens as much as it is trying to guide teens.  I believe that you can have a positive attitude about sex without wanting your younger teen to be sexually active.  There is a time for most things in life-who can fault a parent who would wish that sexual activity, and all of the resulting potential issues, was not part of a young teens life?


Wish all you want, but when you make it clear you think sex is wrong at 14 or 15 or 16 and your teen feels that for them it is right to become sexually active then they are not getting a positive message about themselves or about sex.

post #80 of 99

Nevermind.  I'm just repeating myself.  redface.gif

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