Co-ed sleepovers? - Page 5

[karne]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

 

Wish all you want, but when you make it clear you think sex is wrong at 14 or 15 or 16 and your teen feels that for them it is right to become sexually active then they are not getting a positive message about themselves or about sex.

I respect that we are coming from different places here, and I respect that what you do in your family is right for you.  But I do want to say that I think parenting at this age may involve my child thinking that something might be right for them, and us, as parents saying slow down, lets think this through-this particular thing is not, in our view, as your parents, right for you at this moment.  Having sex at 14 years old would qualify as one of those moments, for me as a parent.  I don't think that means that my kid doesn't get a positive message about themselves. Actually, if that's what it takes for my child to feel good about themselves, than I think we might have bigger issues going on.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by karne 

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

 

Wish all you want, but when you make it clear you think sex is wrong at 14 or 15 or 16 and your teen feels that for them it is right to become sexually active then they are not getting a positive message about themselves or about sex.

I respect that we are coming from different places here, and I respect that what you do in your family is right for you.  But I do want to say that I think parenting at this age may involve my child thinking that something might be right for them, and us, as parents saying slow down, lets think this through-this particular thing is not, in our view, as your parents, right for you at this moment.  Having sex at 14 years old would qualify as one of those moments, for me as a parent.  I don't think that means that my kid doesn't get a positive message about themselves. Actually, if that's what it takes for my child to feel good about themselves, than I think we might have bigger issues going on.

You think there is a problem with your child needing to have some degree of control over their lives to grow into adults with a strong sense of their own ability make the right choices for them? Or do you think that there is a problem with any child needing to have positive messages about their abilities in order become adults with a positive sense of self?

What it all comes down to is that sometimes the teen is right and the parent is wrong. No one is incapable of making mistakes and no one is incapable of making the right choice, even if the choice is something that you personally wouldn't chose for yourself.

[karne]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Originally Posted by karne 

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

 

You think there is a problem with your child needing to have some degree of control over their lives to grow into adults with a strong sense of their own ability make the right choices for them? Or do you think that there is a problem with any child needing to have positive messages about their abilities in order become adults with a positive sense of self?

I think that you can help your child do all of this without encouraging them to have sex as a young teen.  I know this because we're doing it.  I think that there are many ways to give positive messages about a young person's abilities, and to give them control over their lives without paving the way for early sexual activity.

I'll bow out here because I'm comfortable with my feelings on this, and don't' want to debate what anyone else feels is right for their children.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by karne 

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

Originally Posted by karne 

Originally Posted by MusicianDad 

 

You think there is a problem with your child needing to have some degree of control over their lives to grow into adults with a strong sense of their own ability make the right choices for them? Or do you think that there is a problem with any child needing to have positive messages about their abilities in order become adults with a positive sense of self?

I think that you can help your child do all of this without encouraging them to have sex as a young teen.  I know this because we're doing it.  I think that there are many ways to give positive messages about a young person's abilities, and to give them control over their lives without paving the way for early sexual activity.

I'll bow out here because I'm comfortable with my feelings on this, and don't' want to debate what anyone else feels is right for their children.

I don't think anyone has said we should encourage sexual activity. Only that we shouldn't actively paint teen sexuality as an entirely bad thing. No one is going to be helped by making a generalized rule an applying it to everyone.

[EFmom]

 

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

I disagree completely. They aren't small children, but they are children.  Their brains are different than adult brains, as has been shown in many neurological studies.  Areas of the brain that control cognitive decision making, risk-taking behavior, and impulse control are still developing.

They shouldn't be treated like 5 year olds, but they still need guidance and boundaries.

[choli]

Originally Posted by EFmom 

 

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

I disagree completely. They aren't small children, but they are children.  Their brains are different than adult brains, as has been shown in many neurological studies.  Areas of the brain that control cognitive decision making, risk-taking behavior, and impulse control are still developing.

They shouldn't be treated like 5 year olds, but they still need guidance and boundaries.

My teens are definitely not children, they are young women.
 

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by EFmom 

 

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

I disagree completely. They aren't small children, but they are children.  Their brains are different than adult brains, as has been shown in many neurological studies.  Areas of the brain that control cognitive decision making, risk-taking behavior, and impulse control are still developing.

They shouldn't be treated like 5 year olds, but they still need guidance and boundaries.

And yet numerous societies through out time and all over the world, even today, seem to show that teens are capable of being adults. The industrialized world has extended childhood beyond what is evolutionarily normal. The brain never stops growing and changing, your brain now is different then it will be in 10, 20, 50 years from now. In 50 years your own ability to assess a situation and make a choice about what is appropriate will be different simply because the brain and how it works changes.

We treat teens like children then get PO'd when they act immature and rebellious when the whole reason for adolescence is for them to find out who they are a make their own choices. When given the opportunity, most teens will chose to do exactly what their parents tell them not to. On the other hand, when given the chance to make a choice with their parents telling them what is best, most teens will do what is best for them.

If teens were really as stupid as society seems to think, the human race would have died off a long time ago. No one would have made it past 16.

[mommaof3boz]

If at age 18 my son could be called to serve his country, elect a president and legally get married what does it take to be an adult???  So older teens aren't adults?  I started nursing school at age 18, got engaged at nineteen, moved in with dh at 19 and got married at 20.  Sorry but I don't buy that for a second.  Each person becomes an adult at their own pace.  You can't put a number on it.  It has to do with emotional maturity and responsibility and respect for others. 

To answer the original question: Yes I would allow her to sleep over IF it was OK with her parents.  Not in the same room.  I slept over at my dhs parents house.  We'd already had a whole lotta sex by that point.  I slept on their couch.  We truely never snuck into each others rooms.  We respected his parents to much. 

[littlest birds]

Originally Posted by choli 

My teens are definitely not children, they are young women.
 

I am mainly working on not treating dd like a child.  She went through puberty years ago.  If there is any age "child" well suited to a consensual living approach this is it it seems.  I left home at her age.  I can remember being that young woman, my own person, at that age.  Of course I was also quite immature, but I was really darn ready --truly ready--to figure things out myself anyhow and I did better for myself than my parents were. 

I do remember how I thought and felt.  I try to put myself in my dd's place based on that and respect who she is.

I do not encourage her having sex, nor do I forbid it.  Most important to me is that she really be able to truly enjoy her sexuality rather than feel uncomfortable or emotionally confused or isolated.  So far she is doing way better than I did overall.

I do not think that allowing a sleepover grants permission for sex.  I think it is an interesting challenge to handle together in full communication if parent and teen are ready for it.  I felt a little weird about the idea that an out of town male friend, with no interest in "hooking up", would be unable to visit at all simply because of their gender.  Of course, it was also a little weird to allow it.  But looking back months later, I am glad we did it.   

[amnesiac]

I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by amnesiac 

I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.

Well, in my experience if kids don't sleep over then someone needs to drive them home late at night... plus if they stay they often make me breakfast in the morning. :)

[amnesiac]

Originally Posted by Dar 

Originally Posted by amnesiac 

I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.

Well, in my experience if kids don't sleep over then someone needs to drive them home late at night... plus if they stay they often make me breakfast in the morning. :)

I guess it's sort of a compromise at my house. Since I'm up late on the weekends I don't mind driving them. I guess I'd just rather deal with transportation at night than to have my morning chill space altered.  My kids don't seem to mind because it's really the staying up late part they dig. If they do have sleepovers it's generally with kids on our block that can just walk across the street when they get up in the morning. If for some reason I did let one of the boys' gf sleep over I'd want to make certain her parents were okay with it.

[johnnymomma]

I have a pretty "good kid" kind of son who was 14 this past summer.  He had a lovely girlfriend who we've known since they were in kindergarten together.  We have a very small house with no rec room.  She was over for a visit and I had talked to her mom about the logistics, and she said they had hung out at her house together in her bedroom as long as the door was open, no problem.  I told my son, who promised nothing more than hand-holding, that I would agree under 2 conditions--door open, and to expect that I'd come to visit a whole lot and to know he'd never hear me coming.  He said of course, no problem.  Well, twelve minutes after they went up, it got quiet, so I went up to check.  They both had their shirts off and were lying on the bed making out.  That image will be burned into my noggin until the end of my days, let me tell you.  It's not that they are bad or perverted--they are normal teenagers who are marinating in hormones 24/7.

I agree with the replies to let them do a later-than-usual night as a compromise, then you drive her home.  Trust isn't the issue:  biology is.  But, perhaps you want to reinforce with him that it is the situation you don't trust, not him.  A possible analogy that'd he'd understand might be:  I trust you not to drink, but I wouldn't leave you alone with a six pack of beer (or whatever similar analogy works in your situation).  And I agree that it doesn't matter who gave birth to this child--you are POA & in loco parentis and you are, for all purposes, his loving, caring parents.  One yucky thing I have had to learn lately is that the incredibly sweet relationship I've had with my older son has had to change in some ways as he's aged (he's 15 now).  Despite what they say, kids do want limits.  This child sounds pretty fortunate that you are in his life--congratulations and keep up the good (hard) work.

Also, as a side note--I am a middle school teacher (home with a baby this year), and I have caught kids having sex in the bathroom.  It can happen in about a split second.  They are like jackrabbits. 

[2xy]

Originally Posted by amnesiac 

Originally Posted by Dar 

Originally Posted by amnesiac 

I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.

Well, in my experience if kids don't sleep over then someone needs to drive them home late at night... plus if they stay they often make me breakfast in the morning. :)

I guess it's sort of a compromise at my house. Since I'm up late on the weekends I don't mind driving them. I guess I'd just rather deal with transportation at night than to have my morning chill space altered.  My kids don't seem to mind because it's really the staying up late part they dig. If they do have sleepovers it's generally with kids on our block that can just walk across the street when they get up in the morning. If for some reason I did let one of the boys' gf sleep over I'd want to make certain her parents were okay with it.

IME, homeschoolers' friends come from far and wide, which is maybe why Dar and I see things the way we do. My boys have only two friends who live within walking distance. One lives two houses over, part time. The other is about two miles away, down a steep hill and up another, which is lots of fun in the winter. The rest are, at best, a 20-40 minute drive. 

I don't work the same hours every day, and neither does DH. "Late at night" is often when we're getting home from work. A 90-minute round trip at midnight is not something I'm interested in.

[Dar]

We're actually pretty lucky now in that most of Rain's friends live less than 5 miles away, but in the past they've definitely been farther away... but really, I've just never minded having extras around, especially once Rain got to be a teen and was pretty much self-sufficient. Maybe it's an only child thing - if Rain wanted a kid to play with we always had to import them, or export her...

And, on topic, Rain and her boyfriend are downstairs now, and yes, he will be spending the night. He's over 18 and lives on his own, so I'm not concerned about what his parents think. I'm comfortable with the precautions she has taken, and I'm comfortable with her being sexually active. 

The again, she's 17 now. At 13 and 14 she used to sleepover at a male friend's house - actually, often there were two or three teen boys and Rain (all homeschooled, if that matters) - and there was nothing sexual going on at all, and I was totally comfortable with it. 

[amnesiac]

I can see how those things would make a huge difference for me too. My kids' friends live 5-10 minutes drive but if they lived farther that would be a different story. If they were older teens I think it would make me feel differently too. Since I'm generally dealing with 13-15 year olds I'm still involved with a lot of "can you take us...", "can we do...", "can we have..." type dialogue when kids are here & that's what just irritates me in the mornings. If they were a little older & more able to deal with some of that independently I wouldn't mind sleepovers so much.

It's not really the sexuality issue that bothers me personally. One of mine is sexually active & I know that he has taken appropriate precautions. I also know that he will be sexually active no matter where he spends the night & I'm good with that. I live in a pretty conservative area though & I wouldn't have an underage girl sleep over without talking to a parent because most around here are not very accepting of teenagers being even close to sexually active. I actually got a call from a parent over the weekend telling me she doesn't want her kid even talking to one of my ds on the phone or IM because she is too young to even be thinking about boys.

[mtiger]

My daughter's asked for a NYE party this year, which I'm fine with. She actually is the one who suggested the guys sleep at another house - specifically because two of her friends (dating) would be looking for a place to have sex and neither she nor any of their mutual friends want to deal with that. As she put it: "They'd either be on my bed, or A's bed, or YOUR bed, or the couch, and... eewww. No." Note that her school friends range from living 10 minutes away, to almost an hour.

[choli]

Originally Posted by amnesiac 

 I actually got a call from a parent over the weekend telling me she doesn't want her kid even talking to one of my ds on the phone or IM because she is too young to even be thinking about boys.

Good luck to her trying to control her daughter's thoughts
 

[ecoteat]

When I was 14 or 15  I wanted my very best friend to spend the night on NYE SO BADLY. We were so close, but he was a guy. There were absolutely no romantic intentions there and my parents knew it. He had been my best friend for a few years and we did everything together. But my parents said no way. There are a lot of choices they made for me that I understand now that I'm a parent (even though my dd's only 4), but this is not one of them. I never understood why they said no and I still don't. Obviously it's hard to see into the future like that, but if dd was that age and her best friend happened to be a guy, I don't think I'd be likely to treat their friendship much differently than if it was a girl friend.