Should I just give up for now??

[Bebe's Mom]

I am trying to nightwean my almost 14 month old DD. I nurse her to sleep in her crib around 6:30-7 and she usually wakes up 1-2 times before I go to bed around 10, I nurse her back to sleep, then she wakes up between 2:30-3:30 and wants to nurse again. If I don't nurse her, she screams her head off, nothing calms her down except nursing. I take her into bed with me when she wakes up in the early hours of the morning- we were cosleeping full time until last month. There are times when I can limit her nursing, but lately it is not working, she uses me as a pacifier and all night cafe, and my patience is wearing very thin. I think she is getting her molars, which is probably not helping...Should I just grit my teeth and keep nursing, or is there some technique I can use that I have not been using?? I really don't want to let her scream, but I really, really want to nightwean. I have read Dr. Jay Gordon's article, and I have also read Elizabeth Pantley's book, and I have tried to use their methods with little success. My husband cannot take over nighttime parenting duties because he has sleep apnea and must wear a CPAP at night. Also, he is not patient enough to deal with her at night. I am just wondering if she is not ready yet? I realize she doesn't HAVE to nurse at night, but she seems to be unable to go more than 2-3 hours without it. BTW, I am SAHM and she nurses on demand during the day, plus eats solids..

[JuliMummy]

I could have written the exact same post a month ago. Actually, I think I did

We are currently in the process of night-weaning and it has been a lot easier than I though it would be. My daughter was exactly like yours and I really expected hours of screaming. But in the end, she only cried for a bit and then went back to sleep. After a couple of nights of this she seemed to realise that there wasn't going to be any milk and went back to sleep every time quite quickly. We've only been going a week and we're all a bit sick at the moment, so have had a little setback, but overall the experience has been much easier than I expected.

The main thing I have realised is that you need to be ready for it. You need to have got to that point where you refuse do cope with the night-waking and the exhaustion anymore AND you feel she might be ready for it. You need to be prepared that she might cry for quite a while and that it might take a few nights before she gets used to it. You need to be prepared to deal with the short-term sleep deprivation to get more sleep in the long run. You won't really know whether she's ready for it until you try it, and you might find, like me and a lot of others, that it's much easier than you expect. Of course, if you find that she gets really distressed and doesn't cope with it, then you can stop again and try again in a month or so. It took me a few months of agonising over it to get to this point. 

By the way, I started doing a modified version of Dr Jay Gordon's method, but when she had woken for the fifth time that night I decided enough was enough and from the next night on I refused to feed her at all until about 5am. For us this was a better approach, as it is very clear and not confusing for her.

Good luck in figuring out whether you're both ready for it yet. And good luck for when you do decide to give it a try.  

[Bebe's Mom]

Originally Posted by JuliMummy 

The main thing I have realised is that you need to be ready for it. You need to have got to that point where you refuse do cope with the night-waking and the exhaustion anymore AND you feel she might be ready for it. You need to be prepared that she might cry for quite a while and that it might take a few nights before she gets used to it. You need to be prepared to deal with the short-term sleep deprivation to get more sleep in the long run. You won't really know whether she's ready for it until you try it, and you might find, like me and a lot of others, that it's much easier than you expect. Of course, if you find that she gets really distressed and doesn't cope with it, then you can stop again and try again in a month or so. It took me a few months of agonising over it to get to this point. 

By the way, I started doing a modified version of Dr Jay Gordon's method, but when she had woken for the fifth time that night I decided enough was enough and from the next night on I refused to feed her at all until about 5am. For us this was a better approach, as it is very clear and not confusing for her.

Good luck in figuring out whether you're both ready for it yet. And good luck for when you do decide to give it a try.  

So, Julimummy,  What worked for you,  how exactly did you get her back to sleep?? We  tried letting her cry  the other night, but my husband couldn't take it and picked her up..Also, twice now she has cried so hard that she soiled  her diaper. This is after crying for 15 minutes or so. We are all in the same bedroom. I have been thinking about having him sleep in the living room for a week and then I can be with her in the bedroom. I don't have a problem nursing her before 11, it's the middle of the night wakeups that are really annoying. The fact that she cries so hard is making me think that she is not ready, but then I think that she is just mad for not getting what she wants, and doesn't really need it. If I take her into the bed with me and don't nurse, she pulls my hair and pushes at my face and kicks and screams. I feel like we are locked in some kind of power struggle, and I am on the losing end. I really don't want to have that kind of relationship with her, but I don't know how to communicate to her that she needs to go to sleep, or help her go to sleep without nursing.

[JuliMummy]

So this is what I did. When she woke up and cried I told her that I was not feeding her because it was nighttime and time to sleep. Then I lay her down again, put her covers on again and rubbed her back for a while. The first few times she kept crying and standing up in the cot, but eventually she lay down and went back to sleep. And it only took between 10 and 20 minutes the first few times, which really surprised me. Having said that, 20 minutes feels like a really long time in the middle of the night. 

If you like, have a read of my thread 'nightweaning - here we come!'. I found posting about on this forum really helped me keep my resolve in the middle of the night.

I think you're the only one who can know whether your daughter is ready. For us the difference was: When I tried to put her back to sleep without feeding a few months ago she cried and cried and eventually got so tired that she tried to lie down and go to sleep, but she was so upset that she just couldn't go to sleep - she would drift off a little and then sob herself awake again, because she was just so upset. At that point she clearly wasn't ready. But now, just a few months later, she cries a bit in protest and then goes back to sleep. It is a big difference. But you know your daughter best and you'll have to work out yourself at what point she is just complaining rather than genuinely upset and not coping.

Having my husband sleep in another room while she was spending a lot of time in our bed wasn't really an option. It is very important to him that we share our bed and even if it was just for a few months he would feel really rejected and unloved. But he is also a really solid sleeper and doesn't usually wake up when she cries. But if it's an option for you it might be good for a few months until you feel she's ready to nightwean and sleep in her own bed, if that is what you want to do.

I found reading older threads about nightweaning and the different approaches people took very helpful in slowly working out what I needed to do.

[Bebe's Mom]

Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful!! I have been checking out some of the newer nightweaning threads, but I will go back a bit farther and see what else I can find. I am leaning towards giving up for now, because I feel like she may not be ready. I just wanted some feedback because I was doubting my instincts a bit. Sigh. Yes, it would be hard to get my husband to sleep in another room, because usually he won't even go to bed until I do, even if he has been snoring away on the couch for the last 2 hours. Aaargh.

[Bebe's Mom]

Things are going much better these days. I was getting pretty discouraged until I thought back to a month ago. Last month when we started, there were lots of tears and wakeups.. It took awhile to figure out what works, and to get better at reading her sleep cues.. When we were still cosleeping full time, she was waking up 5-6 times a night to nurse. When I first put her in the crib, she would only sleep for an hour, then I would have to take her out and go to bed with her. Now, I put her to bed between 6:30-7 and she sleeps uninterrupted until 9 or so, at which point I either nurse her for 2-3 minutes, or sometimes I can just rub her back until she falls back to sleep. She occasionally wakes up around 2 to nurse again, which I limit to 10 minutes or less, and then put her back in the crib. When she wakes up at 5, I take her into the bed and she nurses until she is ready to get up. I am trying to limit this nursing session to 20 minutes or so...This morning she woke up at 5, nursed until 6 and was up, but then she decided to take a morning nap at 9! This never happens. I think now that we are getting into a routine that it is becoming easier, although it took a half hour to get her to sleep last night-she may not have been ready to go down, because most times it only takes 15 minutes or less to nurse her to sleep. So, we are making progress, it is just taking longer than I had hoped. I wish I would have started putting her in the crib sooner, because I don't think cosleeping past 6 months was good for her-she woke up every time we moved, and then of course wanted to nurse again. I was even able to go out in the evening last weekend after she went to bed, which I haven't been able to do since she was born. She slept the entire time I was gone.

[JuliMummy]

I'm glad to hear things are going so well for you. We're not doing so well. My daughter has a bad cold and we're back to square one with very frequent nursing day and night :(   I've got this cold too, so with that and the sleep deprivation I'm feeling pretty exhausted again. But at least for a few days last week I felt almost human again...  And I'm hopeful that things will improve again once she's all better.

[Bebe's Mom]

Sorry to hear that, Julimummy. Hope things get back on track for you soon. DD cut her lip open at the playground today, so not sure how that will affect her sleep. She is nursing just fine, but I am worried about the soreness keeping her up.

[Bebe's Mom]

So, the cut on her lip didn't seem to have any effect on her sleep, it healed up and she slept just fine the first night. However, the last two nights we have been back to square one. She wakes up every hour and I have to nurse her back down or she becomes hysterical. I have brought her back into the bed because she just refuses to sleep in her crib. I have been racking my brains to figure out what has changed and why she will not sleep, and the only thing I can come up with is that I washed her crib sheet. No diet changes, nothing else has been different. We are going on a trip this weekend and I am very worried that she will not sleep well while we are away. There is no crib where we are going, and I am bringing her pack and play for her to sleep in. She has never slept in it before, so I am not confident that I will be able to get her in it, she will probably end up in the bed again. Aargh. I was really hoping to go out with my husband, we really need a date!

[JuliMummy]

Oh Bebe's Mom. I'm so sorry to hear you're back to square one as well.  

My daughter is still getting over her cold and sleeping has been as bad as ever. Last night she started with 2-hour stretches that got shorter and shorter until by 4am she was waking between every 5 and 20 minutes, which was just infuriating - just long enough for me to get back to deep sleep. At that point I had had enough and told her I wasn't feeding her again and she should go back to sleep. By the way, she's now on a single mattress next to our bed, because there just wasn't enough room in our double bed (yes, that's right, double, not even queen size). Anyway, she just cried and cried. My husband tried to lie down with her but she just kept crying. After an hour she had gotten herself so worked up that she nearly vomited again (which she did all the time when her cold was really bad) so at that point I had to give up and feed her again. After that she did sleep for another 2 and a bit hours.

It seems that she has to be 100% well for me to even think about night-weaning again, as the slightest hint of a cold means she just won't settle down again by herself. So I'm feeling very discouraged, as we're just at the start of winter (our second in a row having just moved to the UK from Australia) which means the longest stretches of good health we're likely to get are maybe a couple of weeks, if that. And I just don't want to keep starting night-weaning over and over, but I also don't want to keep living in this zombie state of sleep deprivation :(     Oh, what to do?!

How did your weekend away go? Did she sleep in the pack and play? Did you and your husband get to go on a date?

Has your little one always been a bad sleeper? Or is it a recent development?

[Bebe's Mom]

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble, JuliMummy!!  Sleep deprivation is the absolute worst! I have been so forgetful lately, and I keep losing stuff. So annoying. I was so tired at dinner the other night I could barely keep my eyes open.  I tried putting bebe in the pack n play, but it didn't work out so well...The room was somewhat cold, and my in laws are going deaf, so the t.v. was so loud you could probably hear it outside..The result being that she slept for about an hour and then kept waking up. So, she ended up in the bed with us, a very small bed, and uncomfortable to boot. The first night we were there, she kept waking up, I would nurse her and she would unlatch and start screaming. She did that for or five times. The next day she was pretty miserable, and she fussed and cried all through dinner. I sent my husband to the pharmacy for some ibuprofen and we gave her that, it seemed to help since she slept better that night-only 2-3 wakeups and no screaming. The next day, she was still a bit cranky and then fell asleep on me while nursing, so I just sat there and let her sleep. Then she slept on the way home,, which was about 2 hours. When we got home, she was in a great mood, playing and happy..I put her to bed that night and she woke up a few times, but not as much as she had been. Then, last night, she woke up an hour after I put her to bed, then woke up around 2:30, went back to sleep in her crib until 5 a.m.!!!!! So, we are pretty much back to where we were last week. Which is good! I will take it. Hopefully she will continue to sleep well. I think the ibuprofen really helped with the teething problems she has been having and I will utilize it again in the future, now that I know why she was waking so much. She has never been a napper and she has generally always woken up every two hours to nurse, so getting her to sleep for more than three hours at a stretch is a huge accomplishment. And no, no date, I was too worried she was going to wake up and start screaming, and since I am the only one who can nurse her back to sleep, I had to stick around. But, we are going away again this weekend and there will be plenty of teenage girls around who love babies, so I will probably get some down time, if not a date.

I really hope you lo feels better soon, sounds like you need a break. Wish I had some advice for you...

Edited by Bebe's Mom - 11/24/10 at 3:36pm

[fuzzylogic]

Julimummy, can you move the baby into another room?  If you aren't right in sight, she may well settle down sooner, and your movements won't wake her.  Other than that, you may just need to be firm, even if she is sick, and leave her to settle herself.  I don't do unrelenting CIO, but don't pick her up, and just pat her back.  The first few nights will be the longest......also, I've given water bottles or paci's to babies while still flat out refusing to feed them past 8-10 months, if I needed them weaned at night.

[Bebe's Mom]

Fuzzylogic, you may be on to something there with the separate room idea....However, if a LO has not had a paci, is it a good idea to start when they are 15 months old?? Not trying to flame you, just curious... I am anti-pacifier myself, although in my darkest moments I have wished my DD had one...Then I come to my senses, lol. Julimummy, have you given your daughter a lovey? Maybe that would help her settle herself?? I haven't tried it myself, but I have read other threads where mamas have tried it, and it worked for them. Hope you are getting some sleep!!

[diana_of_the_dunes]

I'm in the exact same boat as you guys...  My LO is 14 months in a few days, and I'm seriously considering nightweaning.  Or partial nightweaning.  Something! 

My DS only wakes, on average, twice a night, and he's been bottle-fed since around 9 months.  But I'm just so tired.  I work 2nd shift, and I don't get to bed until about midnight.  DS has been waking right around then, and again at about 3 or 4.  He's up for the day around 6:30 - 7:30.  But DH works midnights, so I'm all alone at night.  He takes care of DS in the morning from 7 til 8:30 so I can get some sleep, but I'm having a rough time with 8 hrs of interrupted sleep. 

DS is in the middle of a neverending bout of teething...  And he's getting over a cold, so the timing is not ideal.  But I just don't think I can do it anymore.  Working a high-stress, full-time job, plus the crappy sleep, is taking its toll.  And we want to start trying for #2 soon, but I can't even fathom the pregnancy fatigue plus being up at night.

I've tried giving DS a bottle of water at the first wake-up, and he usually drinks it, goes to sleep, then wake up crying again 5-20 minutes later.  But his normal bottle at that time is 2 oz formula and 2 oz water, so he's really not getting that much "food" ya know?  He gets a 5 oz bottle at 4 am.  I know logically that he can go all night without eating, but how can I tell if he's actually hungry?

Last night was kind of miserable.  He woke at 11:20, but I refused to feed him until 1) he went back to sleep, and 2) it was at least 12:30.  We managed, but he cried for almost an hour, went to sleep with the bottle of water, and woke up 10 minutes later.  Thank God it was after 12:30.  He was so upset.  :(  I'm seriously considering asking my mom to come help out for a few days so we can try to get over this thing!  Even though I haven't nursed in a long time, he still associates me with food in the middle of the night.

Anyways...  This was kind of long and rambling, but I wanted you both to know that you aren't alone!

[alegna]

14 months is early to nightwean.  I wouldn't personally try before at least 18 months.  Teething will undo it anyway IME.

Could you move her to your bed full time so you could SLEEP and not have to get up over and over?  At that age both of mine went through stages where they nursed a lot at night (ds all.night.long) and I would have gone mad if I had to get up.  I got comfy and slept with a soggy nipple  lol

good luck!

-Angela

[diana_of_the_dunes]

I don't want to fully nightwean, just give up one feeding.  But I'm fairly certain he's not ready, just judging from how he wakes constantly if he gets a bottle of water instead of milk/formula.  He's big for his age (31" and 26 lbs), and I'm just not convinced he's not actually hungry.

DS and co-sleeping don't always get along.  Sometimes he spends all night in bed with me (after his first waking).  Sometimes he kicks and squirms so much that we're both happier if he's in his crib.  We just play it by ear, night by night.  It's much better than it was a few months ago...  Then he was waking at least 4 times.  I was SO tired... I am now too, but except on bad nights, I'm really not in a hurry to nightwean.  But on the bad nights...   I get resentful and wonder if I'll ever get a normal night of sleep again.  And then I hate myself for feeling that way.  This too shall pass, right?

[Bebe's Mom]

We were co-sleeping until about two months ago, but nobody was getting any sleep..Every time I moved, DD would wake up, which would trigger another nursing session to get her back to sleep. She was waking up 5-6 times a night, kicking my DH and me, screaming, etc...I much prefer having her in the crib, since I get more room and she wakes up a lot less...We have been doing fairly well, we are not night weaned, but I believe that we are slowly getting somewhere. She is teething right now, which means she doesn't sleep great, but we give her some meds at night when she gets really fussy, and that helps quite a bit. She generally wakes up 2-3 times a night now, and I can usually get her back to sleep within 3 minutes of waking. It used to take upwards of 45 minutes to get her back to sleep, so this is a vast improvement!! She has skipped her 9:30 wakeup a few times, so it is possible that she may start sleeping through that soon.(I hope!) She wakes again at around 2:30 or 4, and at that point I usually take her in the bed with us, because that is a long nursing session. She falls back to sleep after that and gets up between 6:30-7 a.m. for the day. I agree that she is probably not ready to fully night wean yet, she gives all the signs of not wanting to give it up. But we have reached a compromise, and that works for me for now. I think the gradual approach works better for us than the cold turkey approach. We tried that, and she just screamed her head off. Not so good.

[zamia7]

I tried reading through all the posts but I am tired so forgive me if I am repeating what someone else has said.  My ds is 14 months and we started night weaning at a year, because he was up every hour, would only nurse back to sleep.  It was going really great, then we traveled and it all went down the drain and he started waking every hour again.  He was teething and I wasn't sure, but I was so freaking exhausted I could barely see.  DH grudgingly took over from 11-6 (we loosely follow the Jay Gordon method) and it is working !  He still wakes, but not as often, and most times DH just sleeps with him.  The biggest thing that helped was putting him in his own room.  We gave up on the idea of a crib.  He has a full size bed pushed into a corner with a rail (on the floor, no bed frame) in a babyproofed room.  He LOVES it, and if he needs us, one of us can sleep with him, or comfort him until he is asleep and leave.  The beauty of it is that we don't have to move him, so he doesn't wake up.  Last night he only woke once.  I might also add that he has been high need his whole life, so I was pretty sure it wouldn't work, because I didn't think he was even capable of sleeping that long, and he is a very very poor self soother.  He is also big for his age (always has been).  My modified version of this method is to feed him after the first waking-whenever it is, and then not again until 6. 

[Bebe's Mom]

Just wanted to update, I am so excited!! After three weeks of teething and sickness, DD is finally feeling better. She actually slept through the night last night, without nursing, from 9 p.m. until 6 a.m.!!! She woke up a couple of times, but fell back to sleep almost immediately!! I couldn't believe it. I guess what I have been trying to do has been sinking in on some level, either that or it is a total fluke. Oh, I really hope it is the former!! Hope this helps all you mamas out there. I was actually not exhausted today, it was weird!

[JuliMummy]

Wow, Bebe's Mom, that is really exciting! Well done, Eleanor!

We're not doing so well. We had one horrible cold with a cough that hung around for a week after, and I was not prepared to give night-weaning another go until she was 100% well. After one night without coughing I was just psyching myself up to try again.....and she got sick again! So we're now in the middle of another horrible cold with the usual terrible sleeping. Hopefully I will have some more positive things to report in a few weeks' time.