Quiet time? Or am I being mean?

[Thing1Thing2]

I am having a hard time setting boundaries with my 29 month old. He has never been a good sleeper, and now that my milk supply is dwindling he is getting worse. He just recently started fighting sleep again for whatever reason. His molars are in. He's done teething and I thought I would finally be getting sleep.

I can't do this anymore, and now he is fighting his naps. I need time to do work because we need the money. It's only 2 hours, yet he can not seem to go down for his nap. But then he will be tired at 5:30pm and crying to go to sleep.

I have heard of putting them in the room with the door closed. So that is what I am doing right now. He is in there saying "I need help with these toys, Mama". I feel like such a bad Mama... I am ignoring him.

I need help. Seriously. I have given *every* second of *every* day and *every* night to this child. I have let my house fall apart and my health run down from sleeplessness. I am ready to set some boundaries for my own personal comfort.

He gets up at night and wants to "play". He puts the light on at 3:30 in the morning and wakes everyone up and won't let us sleep. I know this could be related to allergies, but I'm so tired of trying to figure this all out. I have kept him soy, dairy, corn and wheat free for 2 years. We can hardly eat anything. Our food bill is outrageous. I'm so burned out. But I don't want to hurt him by withdrawing. Please help me make some sense of this all.

Please know that I am a highly sensitive person and so is my child. When I say I am giving *everything* to him, I mean it.

[Artichokie]

Hugs to you.  my dd is now 34 mo but stopped napping regularly long ago.  We have a two hour quiet time every afternoon, but i do not separate myself from her.  She plays on her own, usually in the same room I am in.  I do have to remind her that she is supposed to be playing by herself but honestly at her age I don't expect her to be able to remember that we are in quiet time rules w/o occasion gentle reminders from me.   it will take some time for your DS to get into the routine of playing alone in the afternoon (we have quiet time directly after lunch), but with time and enough (gentle!) reminders, he will get there.  I do think he is too young to expect to be physically separated from you for that length of time against his will.  You will spend quite a bit of time redirecting him and reminding him about quiet time rules but he will get it.  I grew up with quiet time and iirc I wasn't put in my room for quiet time until i was around 4 yrs old.

ETA: do you cosleep?  My dd sstn but when she was waking and wanting to be read to, we played dead.  On the occasion that didn't work, we physically separated her from us (put her in her room) for like 1 min which upset her enough that she was ready to go back to sleep.  I totally get that you feel like you have given everything.  I have often felt the same way, esp before we night weaned and instituted a quiet time. 

[Thing1Thing2]

Thanks for replying. and thanks for the hugs. About the napping, I keep getting the feeling that he's done with afternoon naps. But I thought they weren't supposed to lose the nap until much much later.

Yes, he is too young tobe separated from me. He started crying and I went in to his room and nursed him for a while and when he didn't fall asleep, we came out here. I will start implementing "together" quiet time, but not when I'm in this mood. I know he is going to resist it and I don't have the patience.

Yes, we do cosleep. And he used to nurse 4-5 times a night. My milk supply is dwindling, and I can tell he is frustrated. I really want to night wean, and so I'm not trying to increase my supply, but I am trying to help him feel comfortable enough to sleep without a belly full of milk. I have tried feeding him right before bed, and that doesn't work because he has reflux.

I am going to try to put him in his bed for 1 minute tonight if he wakes us up. I feel like that is a better choice than stewing in my anger at 3:30 in the morning. And maybe it will work.

I do have a question for you though. You said you do quiet time together for a few hours in the afternoon. I'm wondering how much time you spend with your dc all day. It seems my ds may need more attention than other children, but I'm not sure.  I have had to pay more attention to our home recently, since we just moved, but I notice him missing the constant full attention I used to give him every day.

[Artichokie]

I spend all day, every day, with her.  Normally we get up, get dressed, have bfast, and go out for the morning.  We have a mommy and me day @ the local montessori, or go to the library, the zoo, the science museum, or shopping together.  We come home for lunch and then have quiet time.  After quiet time is snack and a walk (weather permitting).  We all cook dinner together (including dh), so supper is a little later than many with small kids eat.

I have a small wahm business and i totally understand how you need to work but feel pulled in two directions, plus are over tired too.

if you opt to put him in his bed, i would warn him first.  "it is sleep time now.  if you do not let us sleep, you will have to go in the other room."  Then if you do bring him in there, remind him that night is for sleeping and he is welcome w/you as long as he lets you sleep.  idk how gd that is, but a mamas got to sleep.

eta: we are tv free, but i have started permitting 30 min of mr rogers at the end of the day after clean up and before dh gets home.

nak (even though quiet time isn't over *sigh*)

[JamieB]

Have you read Sleepless in America?  Might help with the sleep stuff.  Will he stay in his bed if you but him in there with some books and maybe a toy?  Tell him it is quiet time and he needs to stay in his bed?  This is what I do my my DS won't nap.  I don't ignore him while he is in there though.  He is used to being in there to fall asleep though so he doesn't ask me to play or anything.  Good luck!

[Nicole730]

We do quiet time here with my 30 month old.  He stays quiet for about 20 minutes then starts talking and asking to get out, help with this or that, etc...  I just go over there and calmly remind him that it's quiet time now and he is free to read stories in bed.  So far, he's only fallen asleep once   But I do plan on keeping quiet time because I know he is in safe place while I get his sister down for her nap.  Although his newest thing is, I need you Mama.  So cute, but hard to ignore/say no to.  If I were you, I'd just keep up the quiet time, but go in there to remind him that is having quiet time on his own right now and you are not able to help him.  Let him know you will help him once quiet time is over.

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by Artichokie 

I spend all day, every day, with her.  Normally we get up, get dressed, have bfast, and go out for the morning.  We have a mommy and me day @ the local montessori, or go to the library, the zoo, the science museum, or shopping together.  We come home for lunch and then have quiet time.  After quiet time is snack and a walk (weather permitting).  We all cook dinner together (including dh), so supper is a little later than many with small kids eat.

I have a small wahm business and i totally understand how you need to work but feel pulled in two directions, plus are over tired too.

if you opt to put him in his bed, i would warn him first.  "it is sleep time now.  if you do not let us sleep, you will have to go in the other room."  Then if you do bring him in there, remind him that night is for sleeping and he is welcome w/you as long as he lets you sleep.  idk how gd that is, but a mamas got to sleep.

eta: we are tv free, but i have started permitting 30 min of mr rogers at the end of the day after clean up and before dh gets home.

nak (even though quiet time isn't over *sigh*)

It sounds like you have a nice routine going. I wish I had the presence of mind to stick to something like that. It seems like that would be hard for me to do at this point. I guess it could be easier if we had another car, besides the one my DH takes to work. We also have allergies and chemical sensitivities and everything takes tons of planning. We just moved back into our home after 10 months because of mold remediation. We almost lost our home. We moved four times during that ten months. We had no routine, no schedule... and lately I feel I have no patience. 

We are TV free too, but recently (during our move) we let him watch a little "Kipper". It is slow paced and I like the music. Well, he became obsessed and all he was talking about was Kipper. "Mama, do you remember when Kipper was afraid of the owl?" "Mama, Kipper likes to ride on a sled"... and so on. I didn't feel it was healthy for him, so we stopped him cold turkey.

I own a small business as well, and you're right, it makes you feel pulled in 2 different directions. Thanks for the help, it is nice to not feel so alone.

 

Originally Posted by JamieB 

Have you read Sleepless in America?  Might help with the sleep stuff.  Will he stay in his bed if you but him in there with some books and maybe a toy?  Tell him it is quiet time and he needs to stay in his bed?  This is what I do my my DS won't nap.  I don't ignore him while he is in there though.  He is used to being in there to fall asleep though so he doesn't ask me to play or anything.  Good luck!

I read that book about a year ago.  I don't remember much, except I got the idea that it was CIO. I could be wrong though.

He won't stay in his bed with a toy, unfortunately.

 

Originally Posted by Nicole730 

We do quiet time here with my 30 month old.  He stays quiet for about 20 minutes then starts talking and asking to get out, help with this or that, etc...  I just go over there and calmly remind him that it's quiet time now and he is free to read stories in bed.  So far, he's only fallen asleep once   But I do plan on keeping quiet time because I know he is in safe place while I get his sister down for her nap.  Although his newest thing is, I need you Mama.  So cute, but hard to ignore/say no to.  If I were you, I'd just keep up the quiet time, but go in there to remind him that is having quiet time on his own right now and you are not able to help him.  Let him know you will help him once quiet time is over.

Does he nap during the day? Or did he give up naps?

[EdnaMarie]

I can't edit my posts normally.  I meant 25F.  Obviously.  LOL!

My take is, it's certainly not mean to ask a child of that age to have quiet time.  There are a lot of good suggestions about how to do it here.  I'm taking notes.

If I knew how to get them to do stuff without making it into a huge tragedy, I would be the happiest woman on earth.

I'll just put one thing out there, and this is just something to consider--maybe he's not getting enough from you because he needs more people?  Maybe not in large groups, maybe not without you (but who knows?) but a more with other kids?  More time outside?  More physical challenges?  Around two they really do start requiring more input and while some kids need that to come 100% from mom, other kids require so much that no one person could ever do it.  So that's something to think about--tiring him out with more time at the park, etc.

We go to the park down to 25C even with a baby because if we don't get that, we will not see sleep.  My rule is, three hours outdoors, minimum, with exceptions on very busy / special days, if it's warm, if it's cold, as long as we can stand it and we have warm clothes.

Good luck!

[ssh]

Originally Posted by BonnieNova 

Thanks for replying. and thanks for the hugs. About the napping, I keep getting the feeling that he's done with afternoon naps. But I thought they weren't supposed to lose the nap until much much later.

My DD gave up naps at 27 months. For a few weeks before that she was unable to go to sleep until about 2 or 3 in the morning. Once we stopped the naps she was grumpy at about 6 or 7 and then went to sleep at about 9 and other than nursing a few times slept for 12 hours. Once we dropped the naps DD slept sounder and for longer periods. The evening grumpiness took a few weeks to go away, but it did go away. We went from it taking hours to go to sleep really late to it taking minutes. We did do quiet time around 2 or 3 in the afternoon but it was stories or a movie. My DD would have freaked out if we had tried to shut her alone in a room. She wasn't really comfortable being alone for any period of time even to play until about 3.5. She was playing independently for periods of time before turning 3 she just wanted to be within 10 feet of me while doing it.

As for needing constant attention, let your DS 'help' you do what you need to do. Having a toddler underfoot ALL the time in not as annoying when you're both doing what you want and need to do instead of just playing. Also toddlers find our work is still play for them.

[Bisou]

Bonnie:

My favorite book about sleep is the No Cry Sleep Solution by Pantley.  She also has one for toddlers.  Both offer lots of suggestions for dealing with sleep problems of all sorts.  She is very against crying it out, so it might be a good choice for you if you haven't looked at it already.

My son has always been very needy and sensitive and what worked best for him was ALWAYS having a very predictable schedule.  Even though he's pretty difficult about a lot of things, getting him in bed and to sleep has never really been a problem for him (except for an occasional issue) because he knows what is going to happen and it happens every single time.  I have always co-slept with him as well.

You said you recently moved.  Do you think he may be having problems because he's feeling unsure about his new environment?  When you lay down for naps, do you read to him?  I used to make my son stay on the bed with me and read for at least 30-45 minutes.  Once he realized he wouldn't be getting up, he would often fall asleep. 

Also, is the room dark?  I had to put dark shades, like blackout shades, over my son's windows so I could get him to sleep during the day because it was often too bright.  Are there other noises or distractions?  I used to always put a box fan on in his room so the white noise would distract him.

Good luck!  It sounds like you all need some rest.

[Thing1Thing2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie 

I can't edit my posts normally.  I meant 25F.  Obviously.  LOL!

My take is, it's certainly not mean to ask a child of that age to have quiet time.  There are a lot of good suggestions about how to do it here.  I'm taking notes.

If I knew how to get them to do stuff without making it into a huge tragedy, I would be the happiest woman on earth.

I'll just put one thing out there, and this is just something to consider--maybe he's not getting enough from you because he needs more people?  Maybe not in large groups, maybe not without you (but who knows?) but a more with other kids?  More time outside?  More physical challenges?  Around two they really do start requiring more input and while some kids need that to come 100% from mom, other kids require so much that no one person could ever do it.  So that's something to think about--tiring him out with more time at the park, etc.

We go to the park down to 25C even with a baby because if we don't get that, we will not see sleep.  My rule is, three hours outdoors, minimum, with exceptions on very busy / special days, if it's warm, if it's cold, as long as we can stand it and we have warm clothes.

Good luck!

Well, yesterday he missed his nap because I had no paitence to try and get him to fall asleep. I also wanted to see if maybe he's done with napping. He got tired and grumpy around 6 and we held out till 8. Bedtime at 8 and he did really well. Went down quickly (usually takes 45 minutes of nursing). Slept mostly all night except for waking up around 4 and wanting to nurse non-stop... It wouldn't have kept me awake except he has bad nursing habits (switching sides constantly, pinching, twiddling).. So I was up for about 1and a half hours until I finally said "no more nah nahs". He whined a little and then fell asleep and slept until 7. I think he's done with naps!

But what EdnaMarie said also resonated with me. I do feel he needs more than just me. He is very active and has loads of energy and I just can't be everything to him anymore. It would be nice if I had a little help here, but my mom lives about 13 hours away and my MIL works. The neighbors kids are inside all the time and I have come very close to stalking them by trying to get DS outside at the right moment so that they could play together.

I think I do need to talk my DH into another car. We can't really afford one right now, but it would make things so much easier for us if I didn't have to walk everywhere. The nearest park is a 40 minute walk.
 

Originally Posted by ssh 

My DD gave up naps at 27 months. For a few weeks before that she was unable to go to sleep until about 2 or 3 in the morning. Once we stopped the naps she was grumpy at about 6 or 7 and then went to sleep at about 9 and other than nursing a few times slept for 12 hours. Once we dropped the naps DD slept sounder and for longer periods. The evening grumpiness took a few weeks to go away, but it did go away. We went from it taking hours to go to sleep really late to it taking minutes. We did do quiet time around 2 or 3 in the afternoon but it was stories or a movie. My DD would have freaked out if we had tried to shut her alone in a room. She wasn't really comfortable being alone for any period of time even to play until about 3.5. She was playing independently for periods of time before turning 3 she just wanted to be within 10 feet of me while doing it.

As for needing constant attention, let your DS 'help' you do what you need to do. Having a toddler underfoot ALL the time in not as annoying when you're both doing what you want and need to do instead of just playing. Also toddlers find our work is still play for them.

NAK

Funny you should say that. I used to let my DS help around the house all the time, but when he started to enjoy throwing things I had to stop. Last night, I tried having him help again, and it seems the throwing stage is over. He did really well helping me make dinner. I'm going to try to let him help me more often. Thanks!


 

Originally Posted by Bisou 

Bonnie:

My favorite book about sleep is the No Cry Sleep Solution by Pantley.  She also has one for toddlers.  Both offer lots of suggestions for dealing with sleep problems of all sorts.  She is very against crying it out, so it might be a good choice for you if you haven't looked at it already.

My son has always been very needy and sensitive and what worked best for him was ALWAYS having a very predictable schedule.  Even though he's pretty difficult about a lot of things, getting him in bed and to sleep has never really been a problem for him (except for an occasional issue) because he knows what is going to happen and it happens every single time.  I have always co-slept with him as well.

You said you recently moved.  Do you think he may be having problems because he's feeling unsure about his new environment?  When you lay down for naps, do you read to him?  I used to make my son stay on the bed with me and read for at least 30-45 minutes.  Once he realized he wouldn't be getting up, he would often fall asleep. 

Also, is the room dark?  I had to put dark shades, like blackout shades, over my son's windows so I could get him to sleep during the day because it was often too bright.  Are there other noises or distractions?  I used to always put a box fan on in his room so the white noise would distract him.

Good luck!  It sounds like you all need some rest.

I read the no cry sleep solution for toddlers way back when he was a year old and having lots of sleep problems. I should read it again. i want to try and night-wean, so it may help. I tried to night wean back when we were in the apartment (about 3 months ago), but it didn't work out. After staying up almost all night with him for 2 weeks, I decided he wasn't ready and gave up!

We just moved and the place isn't that comfy looking. There are boxes everywhere and we lost most of our furniture because of the mold. He is definitely feeling unsure about his environment - and I feel so bad for him. He keeps saying "I don't like our new house, mama. I want to go to Grandmas". or we go shopping and on the way home he says "I don't want to go to our new house, mama". It breaks my heart. I want to make this place as comfy for him as possible, but he needs my attention as well.

The room is bright b/c our shades haven't come in yet. I didn't order the black out shades b/c they were more expensive. Hmmm maybe I should have... 

[EdnaMarie]

"Well, yesterday he missed his nap because I had no paitence to try and get him to fall asleep. I also wanted to see if maybe he's done with napping. He got tired and grumpy around 6 and we held out till 8. Bedtime at 8 and he did really well. Went down quickly (usually takes 45 minutes of nursing). Slept mostly all night except for waking up around 4 and wanting to nurse non-stop... It wouldn't have kept me awake except he has bad nursing habits (switching sides constantly, pinching, twiddling).. So I was up for about 1and a half hours until I finally said "no more nah nahs". He whined a little and then fell asleep and slept until 7."

He might be done napping, but frankly--and don't take this the wrong way, because I know some kids really truly do need less sleep, but-- he might just be powering through because he's not exhausted enough. 

The average child that age needs between 11.5 and 13 hours of sleep. If dropping the nap means he's sleeping the same amount or more, then great. If it means he's just losing that sleep, I would reconsider, personally. They don't have a lot of percentages on children's sleep habits, but it does seem that children need at least 12 hours until three. 11 hours is not a lot at his age and that will affect behavior.  

I think I do need to talk my DH into another car. We can't really afford one right now, but it would make things so much easier for us if I didn't have to walk everywhere. The nearest park is a 40 minute walk.
 

8O  Yeah!  Or he could carpool a few days a week?  Do you have a yard?  How many hours do you spend outside?  You could always invite people over.  When my DD turned about 20 months, we had to spend hours outside every day for all of us to feel okay.  She sleeps about 12 hours a day, DD2 sleeps about 13, but again, we have to work our butts off to achieve that.  Then again, I have to work my butt off to achieve pretty much anything, such as five fruits and veggies a day.

[cappuccinosmom]

Just on naptime, not the other issues.

I do not think it is "mean" to have an established, required quiet time.  I do think that if you want that long term, now is the time to establish it.  That might mean accepting interruptions for a while and figuring out what needs to happen in order for him to be able to take this quiet time (and to sleep at night).

I do not make my kids lie down and sleep.  I do require them to stay on their beds, and read or play quietly.  I put a story on CD, and provide them with plent of fresh books from the library every 2 weeks.  It was a struggle with the older two, when they were toddlers.  Now it's the norm, and my youngest didn't even question it because it was *so* normal.  He thought it was great when he moved into his brother's room and got to do all the things they do, incuding listening to stories.  My oldest doesn't get this rest time anymore due to school, and on days off and weekends he's always *so happy* to get to have rest time with the little ones, it's funny.

[JamieB]

Originally Posted by BonnieNova 

.

 

I read that book about a year ago.  I don't remember much, except I got the idea that it was CIO. I could be wrong though.

He won't stay in his bed with a toy, unfortunately.
 

Sleepless in America is not CIO at all.  It is more abot structuring your day for better sleep.
 

[Learning_Mum]

One piece of advice that I would offer is that if he's not napping I would put him to bed earlier.

DS2 is 2.5yo. He naps for about two hours around lunchtime and goes to bed at 7.30pm, usually asleep by about 8pm. However, if he doesn't have a nap I generally put him to bed at about 6.30pm and he's out within minutes.

If he's going to drop his nap, definitely put him to bed earlier so he can get some extra sleep.

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie 

"Well, yesterday he missed his nap because I had no paitence to try and get him to fall asleep. I also wanted to see if maybe he's done with napping. He got tired and grumpy around 6 and we held out till 8. Bedtime at 8 and he did really well. Went down quickly (usually takes 45 minutes of nursing). Slept mostly all night except for waking up around 4 and wanting to nurse non-stop... It wouldn't have kept me awake except he has bad nursing habits (switching sides constantly, pinching, twiddling).. So I was up for about 1and a half hours until I finally said "no more nah nahs". He whined a little and then fell asleep and slept until 7."

He might be done napping, but frankly--and don't take this the wrong way, because I know some kids really truly do need less sleep, but-- he might just be powering through because he's not exhausted enough. 

The average child that age needs between 11.5 and 13 hours of sleep. If dropping the nap means he's sleeping the same amount or more, then great. If it means he's just losing that sleep, I would reconsider, personally. They don't have a lot of percentages on children's sleep habits, but it does seem that children need at least 12 hours until three. 11 hours is not a lot at his age and that will affect behavior.  

8O  Yeah!  Or he could carpool a few days a week?  Do you have a yard?  How many hours do you spend outside?  You could always invite people over.  When my DD turned about 20 months, we had to spend hours outside every day for all of us to feel okay.  She sleeps about 12 hours a day, DD2 sleeps about 13, but again, we have to work our butts off to achieve that.  Then again, I have to work my butt off to achieve pretty much anything, such as five fruits and veggies a day.

Oh boy.  I don't think he's dropping his nap at all. He had a nap yesterday and was up all night wanting to nurse. Then he got up at 3 and wanted to play. He was obviously tired and went to bed with a little rocking, but I didnt enjoy being woken up. Yesterday he had a nap from 10am to 1pm and then went to bed at 8:30pm and then woke up this morning at 8:30am. I tried to keep him from his nap today because I want sleep. Well, he couldnt stay up any longer and just fell asleep. It's 5 pm, which means I will be up with him until 2am. I've never felt so incompetent in all my life. I design websites, repair computers, and set up networks.. and I can't figure out why my kid isn't sleeping??? 

We have a nice big backyard which is currently off limits. We had our deck stained and they used a toxic stain on it. I gave them the name of the natural paint I wanted and even told them I would pick it up for them, but they used the one they wanted to instead. The paint smell makes me and DS sick. so backyard - off limits. We were out inthe front yard today raking leaves and we did have a guest today, but it seems my attention gets taken from him when I have a guest. And we don't know many people with kids right now.

Yeah - at this point I don't have much energy left to work my butt off. I'm so tired. So frustrated. It's been 2.5 years of this and now it seems like it's getting worse. I'm so done! I mean, something has to change here. I'm so tired I want to cry. I feel like maybe the co-sleeping isn't working. And of course, my friend who was here today (ferberized her DS) backs me up on that.

 

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom 

Just on naptime, not the other issues.

I do not think it is "mean" to have an established, required quiet time.  I do think that if you want that long term, now is the time to establish it.  That might mean accepting interruptions for a while and figuring out what needs to happen in order for him to be able to take this quiet time (and to sleep at night).

I do not make my kids lie down and sleep.  I do require them to stay on their beds, and read or play quietly.  I put a story on CD, and provide them with plent of fresh books from the library every 2 weeks.  It was a struggle with the older two, when they were toddlers.  Now it's the norm, and my youngest didn't even question it because it was *so* normal.  He thought it was great when he moved into his brother's room and got to do all the things they do, incuding listening to stories.  My oldest doesn't get this rest time anymore due to school, and on days off and weekends he's always *so happy* to get to have rest time with the little ones, it's funny.

Thanks, I will try that. I love the stories on CD. We have one with trains that we havent listened to in a while..
 

Originally Posted by JamieB 




 

Hmmm.. Maybe I will have to pick that one up at the library again. Right now I am reading a book by Naoimi Aldort, which is taking me forever to get through. It's really good, but I have no time to myself to read. I need to do something about this sleep situation, so I will have to take some time to read that one again.
 

Originally Posted by Learning_Mum 

One piece of advice that I would offer is that if he's not napping I would put him to bed earlier.

DS2 is 2.5yo. He naps for about two hours around lunchtime and goes to bed at 7.30pm, usually asleep by about 8pm. However, if he doesn't have a nap I generally put him to bed at about 6.30pm and he's out within minutes.

If he's going to drop his nap, definitely put him to bed earlier so he can get some extra sleep.

Thanks for the advice. If he does end up dropping his naps, I will keep that in mind.

[smlame]

I'm writing a quick response so sorry if this is a duplicate of what someone else said!  I just have a few suggests ions for you b/c you sound burned out and I can so totally relate!  I have a now 3 year old who I had some of the same issues with (and still do).  I've stumbled on some things that are helping me to have a much more peaceful home life for me and her.  First, look into some Waldorf info about rhythm.  I've been working lately to instill a calm, unhurried rhythm to our lives (including some "mommy" time) and it has helped incredibly.  So napping or not, we always have some quiet time after lunch.  All of us (with me modeling this for her by being in my bed either nursing the baby or reading my own books.  I'm not "occupying" her-if that's makes sense).  Also, I stumbled upon an article by the woman who wrote the Continuum Concept clarifying for us Western parents trying to attachment parent.  She says babies and children were never meant to be the sole focus of our attention.  In fact, we are supposed to be modeling for them what is to be a social, productive member of society.  In other words, we should be going about our adult lives as they are around and with us but we are not in charge of finding things to occupy them.  I've heard it called "benign neglect" as well and I've found that my dd who sounds a lot like your kiddo is responding to this idea incredibly.  Now my day is about taking care of our home, making meals, answering emails, working on the budget, changing diapers, and yes-also spending a few minutes with her reading or whatever-but I hardly ever just "play" what she wants with her anymore.  No more hours of boring tea parties, etc.  And what I've noticed is that she usually does one of two things.......joins me in whatever I'm doing (I make sure I can give her a job whenever she asks to help with what I'm doing) or she now spends hours talking to herself and her dolls, playing pretend, arranging her books, coloring, etc.  My need for a TV babysitter has gone down dramatically (not that we still don't have sesame street on occasionally).  

If any of this hits home with you, I would suggest looking up that article I'm sure you can find it on-line or do a little research into the Waldorf philosophy.  Even if you just take away a few nuggets that work for you-it'd be worth it!  There are some great blogs about all of this too if you do a little digging.  Hang in there and definitely take some time for yourself-you were meant to do this and it is NOT mean!   In a boundaries class I'm taking, the teacher said that not setting good boundaries with a loved one is like saying "I hate you."  You will both be happier when you make yourself a priority too.

[To-Fu]

It took a long time for my son (three in January) to drop his nap completely, but it changed everything for us!  He started the process around 2.5 and bedtime went from an hours-long ordeal to a relaxed 10-minute nursing session.  We do put him to bed earlier (7p instead of 8p) so he can get that extra hour of sleep. 

All that is to say that if you're still wondering if your son is dropping his nap, give it a few months.  Nap dropping is definitely counter to everything that Sleepless in America suggests (it is definitely the opposite of CIO, and is very pro-sleep), but for us it made a huge positive difference in our relationship.  I did not like the parent I was becoming during those nighttime battles of will and due to all the sleep deprivation.  Now he sleeps much harder and more often through the night with minimal go-right-back-to-sleep-with-a-snuggle wake-ups. 

[Thing1Thing2]

Originally Posted by smlame 

I'm writing a quick response so sorry if this is a duplicate of what someone else said!  I just have a few suggests ions for you b/c you sound burned out and I can so totally relate!  I have a now 3 year old who I had some of the same issues with (and still do).  I've stumbled on some things that are helping me to have a much more peaceful home life for me and her.  First, look into some Waldorf info about rhythm.  I've been working lately to instill a calm, unhurried rhythm to our lives (including some "mommy" time) and it has helped incredibly.  So napping or not, we always have some quiet time after lunch.  All of us (with me modeling this for her by being in my bed either nursing the baby or reading my own books.  I'm not "occupying" her-if that's makes sense).  Also, I stumbled upon an article by the woman who wrote the Continuum Concept clarifying for us Western parents trying to attachment parent.  She says babies and children were never meant to be the sole focus of our attention.  In fact, we are supposed to be modeling for them what is to be a social, productive member of society.  In other words, we should be going about our adult lives as they are around and with us but we are not in charge of finding things to occupy them.  I've heard it called "benign neglect" as well and I've found that my dd who sounds a lot like your kiddo is responding to this idea incredibly.  Now my day is about taking care of our home, making meals, answering emails, working on the budget, changing diapers, and yes-also spending a few minutes with her reading or whatever-but I hardly ever just "play" what she wants with her anymore.  No more hours of boring tea parties, etc.  And what I've noticed is that she usually does one of two things.......joins me in whatever I'm doing (I make sure I can give her a job whenever she asks to help with what I'm doing) or she now spends hours talking to herself and her dolls, playing pretend, arranging her books, coloring, etc.  My need for a TV babysitter has gone down dramatically (not that we still don't have sesame street on occasionally).  

If any of this hits home with you, I would suggest looking up that article I'm sure you can find it on-line or do a little research into the Waldorf philosophy.  Even if you just take away a few nuggets that work for you-it'd be worth it!  There are some great blogs about all of this too if you do a little digging.  Hang in there and definitely take some time for yourself-you were meant to do this and it is NOT mean!   In a boundaries class I'm taking, the teacher said that not setting good boundaries with a loved one is like saying "I hate you."  You will both be happier when you make yourself a priority too.

.

Thanks for the advice and examples. I am going to look into a Waldorf type schedule. It may take a little patience on my part, but I want my DS to be happy and healthy.

Originally Posted by To-Fu 

It took a long time for my son (three in January) to drop his nap completely, but it changed everything for us!  He started the process around 2.5 and bedtime went from an hours-long ordeal to a relaxed 10-minute nursing session.  We do put him to bed earlier (7p instead of 8p) so he can get that extra hour of sleep. 

All that is to say that if you're still wondering if your son is dropping his nap, give it a few months.  Nap dropping is definitely counter to everything that Sleepless in America suggests (it is definitely the opposite of CIO, and is very pro-sleep), but for us it made a huge positive difference in our relationship.  I did not like the parent I was becoming during those nighttime battles of will and due to all the sleep deprivation.  Now he sleeps much harder and more often through the night with minimal go-right-back-to-sleep-with-a-snuggle wake-ups. 

Yes, we have bedtime struggles too. DS wants to stay up, won't lie down with me, cries - he could be about to drop, but doesn't want to sleep. I don't want to shut the light off and hold him there in bed, and I don't want to let him cry. My MO as of late has been to let him stay up until he drops... Sleep deprivation is what I have here. I will wait a few months and try the schedule, but it may be better for us to drop the nap as well...