where to start / when to start "discipline"

[JordanKX]

DS is 14 months. He's certainly testing boundaries (walking over to the open gate, looking at me like... I'm about to go into the kitchen, are you going to stop me???). So far in our lives, there are few things that have given him a reaction (even if the reaction is just picking him up to distract him), such as "the kitchen" which is normally gated; pulling at the TV cords, and pulling my hair. The latter, I didn't mean to give it a reaction, but come on... it hurts! He knows that pulling my hair enough times will get a reaction out of me. Most of the time just putting him down. But still... it's something he tests.

Enyhoo... it's coming on that "people" now have opinions (mother, MIL, myself honestly). It does seem that if I just let an action continue forever, I'm just Allowing it... which I don't want, yk?

A friend with the same aged child just instituted time-outs. This makes no sense to me. I still see DS kinda-like a dog in that way... by the time you put him in "time-out", he'd have forgotten what he did wrong. He doesn't get action = consequence. (or maybe he does... this is why I ask).

Obviously the few NOs he's gotten, he gets that it's a reaction, but does he really understand NO? I don't think so, he just gets that he gets attention.

So... what do you do, and WHEN? Our 4yo god-son, he's easy. He gets it. We have established routines for "discipline", if you'd call it that, in our house. But, for a 14month old? I'm clueless.

I mean, how long to you just ignore/distract? At what point are they able to start understanding that I don't want you to hit me in the head with the blocks? When does an action take on a consequence? I'm reading... but maybe I'm not reading the right things, so I'm up for book suggestions as well.

TIA!

[hakeber]

I think discipline as defined by this forum is an ongoing process that is an integral part of child rearing and begins when the child is born.  My baby is ten months, and when she bites my nipple, she learns that I screech in pain and the nipple goes bye bye until it feels well enough for her to suckle again.  The first time my baby yanked my hair I gave her to DH and I put my hair up.  The second time she pulled it I gave her to DH and did not take her back until my head felt better. She has not pulled my hair since. That was about 2 months ago.  I also tend to give her something to occupy her hands now (a little prevention a little consequence) a bobble, a wee toy a necklace, whatever is handy. She knows that she can't have acces to certain places and can only have acces to some places under supervision, because those places remain closed off.  Being 10 months there isn't a whole lot she can get into just yet.  But I don't see how distraction, prevention, and redirection is "allowing" the misbehavior. 

I am not a big fan of ignoring behavior, though.  If I were hit with a block, all the blocks would go away, intentional or not. For me the logical consequence for someone not being able to control the use of a toy so that others do get hurt is that it gets taken away until they are at a more appropriate age/developmental stage for that toy, no matter how young.  Cupboards full of interesting things get locked (or the items gets moved) if the children in the house cannot control their urge to destroy said objects. Rooms are blocked off.  If the child enters said room, I sort of see that as MY fault for not protecting my child, not my child's fault for having an urge to go some place forbidden (boy would THAT be hypocritical of me :lol).  This is a HUGE consequence for a toddler trying to explore the world and it really upsets them, but if it's not safe, like cords, or shelves, or sharp objects, then tough luck.

That being said at about 18 months we did start time outs with Benjamin (for such things as being purposefully destructive, biting, pinching people, and screeching incessantly, stuff like that).  He got two warnings and then an immediate time out for 1 minute -- I had read somewhere a minute for each year.) and they worked to the extent that he repeated offenses very infrequently and always apologized for the behavior and over time began to listen to our requests of cease and desist more quickly, but I am not sure that he wouldn't have responded just as well to other techniques, not the least of which might have been just more hands on interaction and vigilance on our part. :o  

You are disciplining your little one, but I would say starting from around the age they can actually move, grab and make choices, is a good time to starting dealing in logical consequences.

Edited by hakeber - 11/13/10 at 2:44pm

[pianojazzgirl]

You are already "disciplining" your ds.  Redirection is a discipline tool, and probably the best one in the toolbelt at this age!  Something you can try to do is "honour the impulse" - ie. give them what they're looking for (ex. climbing experience), but in an acceptable way (ex. redirect from climbing the bookshelf to climbing the indoor slide). 

Besides that babyproofing is your best friend.  If you don't want him in the kitchen keep the gate shut (or if you've forgotten to shut the gate a simple "uh oh, out we go" as you pick him up and plop him back in the livingroom).  See if you can do anything to make the TV wire situation safer - maybe keep it unplugged and wires tucked in, or somehow block the wires from him, yk.  If that's not possible and he does get into them I'd just say something like "not for ds", and distract him with something else - ideally something that "honours the impulse" if possible.

I think by removing a child from a danger situation (or removing a dangerous object from their grasp) and distracting them/redirecting them is far from "doing nothing", and if you calmly and simply state the reason at the same time "wires can give a boo boo" (or whatever), then you are teaching as well.

[JordanKX]

THANK YOU.

Because... I feel like I am "disciplining", just in life, in teaching, in removing potential for failure or issue.

It's just that I have met moms with same-age kids who are now doing time-outs, or lil pops on the hands.... things that I just see no need for yet. Granted, god-son, 4yo does have time-outs at our house - but I didn't have to start that... it came from parents and his pre-school. It is a norm for him. Like I said before, he's easy. Most of the time, the warning is all you have to tell him and he alters his behavior.

But, that these parents are starting at 14months... it just seems, odd. I appreciate your feedback that I am already "disciplining", and I need no formal regimen.

[dakotablue]

I honestly don't know if at 14 months timeouts would even make sense to a child? Do they have the reasoning skills at that point? other than removing your attention?

Hand bopping...I don't think works unless you are trying to associate pain with something, like electrical outlet. Even then its controversial.

Logical consequence teach a child to think for themselves...

We do have time in's when DS gets too rowdy (he's 13 months) I'll grab him for nursing or cuddles to calm him, but withdrawing myself just seems...IDK mean. (unless of course its better for the both of us)

[hakeber]

Time ins did not work for my DS because he is very much energized by human contact. He needs alone time to calm himself, and always has.(One of the main reasons co-sleeping with him just didn't work.)  DD on the other hand is the complete opposite.  You should do what works for your kids and your heart.

OP, you will get a lot of advice from other parents on discipline.  The question is what discipline do you want them to gain?  Do you want them to just obey, to cower in the shadow of your authority?  That will make it easy in the short term. A pop on the hand or the bum, yelling, and unreasonable age inappropriate punishments will generally lead to that type of learning. Or do you want to raise children who think for themselves, make good choices through trial and error, by weighing the outcomes and choosing their own choices?  I strive for the latter.  Of course there are days when I just wish to god he would do as he was told, stop questioning me and just listen and obey, but in the long run I believe I am giving him the tools to make better life choices than I was equipped to do as a child.

You're doing fine.  Just keep following your heart and it's unlikely you can go wrong.

[HappyMommy2]

I agree that discipline is different than punishment. 

I never let babies (or anyone) pull my hair.  A gentle "eh-eh, let go of mommy's hair" and redirecting their hand with my hand worked.  So with that type of thing (discipline), I guess I started day one (or as soon as baby was old enough to grab).  As the baby gets older, and tests the hair pulling like yours is doing, definitely put him down, and explain why.  Every single time.  They will soon understand that pulling mom's hair means mommy doesn't get to hold you anymore.

I did not start time outs (punishment) until 20 or 24 months.  And time-out offenses were actions that hurt other people or dogs. (hitting, biting, etc.)  Really short time-outs worked with my son, like only 15-30 seconds, because he is a super people-person.  Other annoying actions were just redirected.

Redirection is really the best tool there is.  It is mommy-time-intensive, but that is our job!  You might have to redirect 1000 times, but they will get it!  That is just what kids do! 

I do not believe you have to just keep letting a kid hurt you, that is horrible for the mom and really a disservice to the kid.  There are gentle ways to show kids how to respect other people. 

Also - remember to tell that what TO DO.  Don't tell them what NOT to do.  For example, do not say "stop flushing the toilet!" .... instead say "Please let go of the toilet handle".

Good luck mama!!

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by JordanKX 

It's just that I have met moms with same-age kids who are now doing time-outs, or lil pops on the hands.... things that I just see no need for yet.

IMO 14 months old is still a BABY.  I definitely don't see the need for time-outs at that age (I mean formal "sit-on-the-naughty-step-for-x-minutes" time-outs, not something like putting him down if he's scratching your face or something like that). 

I don't see the need for "lil pops on the hand" at any age.

I think you are doing great mama.  Listen to your gut.