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Marriage, Sexual History, etc. (r-rated) - Page 2

post #21 of 42


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Thanks to eveyrone for your input.  It is helpful.  I guess I need to draw the picture more clearly.  DH says that the real issue is that I did not tell him the complete truth in the beginning, after being the one to bring it up.  The reason I told him about it - basically number of partners and what types of relationships they were - was that in my 22 year old mind, I felt like my life partner would need to know about the history overall and be willing to deal with it, or know about it and decide not to marry me.  By revealing details, saying I had gotten it all out, but then later coming up with more, he says I was manipulating him.  I can see what he's saying some, but of course, that's not how I saw it at the time. I saw that here was this man I loved and I was telling him things so he would know, but then he'd ask all these questions and get so angry, so I'd say some things and then shut down because the anger was so difficult to handle.   



How were you manipulating him by only revealing part of your sexual history?  I'd really like to know - that doesn't make ANY sense at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Long time mostly lurker here.  I've been married almost 16 years.  Was in early twenties when I got married and we didn't date long.  Long story short - after the first boy I ever went out with (at a very naive age 13 in 9th grade, having come from a nonemotional, no talk about sex/marriage, family) took me into a church hallway and stuck his penis in my mouth and then continued to kind of use me and spit me out, I started out on years of screwed up sexual behavior.  hubby did not have this history.  i told him before we got married about the overall scope of things, realized i should be quite embarrassed and that the knowledge was hurting him, and kind of backed off with the confession/revelation thing.  but this has been aproblem forever with us.  he is sickened that i did the things i did and does not trust me because i lied.  we have had several blow ups and long talks over the years, and i have remembered and revealed more details.  i am in counseling finally to try to get a handel on this.  i guess i had hoped this would all become a nonissue but it does not.  any thoughts, advice, etc.  hubby is plannig to leave me over this.


DId this information HURT your husband?  Or did it make him angry?  2 different emotions.  If he was hurt that you had been sexually assaulted and abused as a teen, he would not be angry with YOU, he would be angry with your abusers.  STOP revealing details - its none of his business, and he's not willing or able to help you through it.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Now he's also telling me i have to write emails to the priest who married us (to tell him we married under false pretenses and need an annulment, i think), my college friends for more perspective on how screwed up I was, and one of the guys from my history (to tell him he's a jerk).  He's also been looking people up on the internet, showing me the current photos and make fun of the guys and me.  There's a lot of disrespectul namecalling, yelling, taking up so much of our present time (away from our 2 lovely daughters).  Friday there were suicide threats over this issue.  This weekend I wound up in the hospital and he blew up on a doctor and yelled at me that a male nurse who was laughing too much was hitting on me - the man was so obviously gay! 



This is a huge over-reaction.  It's also controlling (seeing as how he wants you to contact all these people and tell them how you screwed up).  Namecalling is another form of abuse.  He threatened SUICIDE???!!!???!!!  honey, GET OUT NOW.  This is abuse, manipulation (and no, YOU are NOT manipulating him, HE is manipulating YOU!), and a huge power struggle that you won't win.  Read up on abusive relationships please.  If you determine that you are in one - DO NOT seek couples counseling.  Couples counseling is for people with MUTUAL problems, abuse is ONE person's problem - the perpetrators.  Couples counseling in abusive relationships usually only gives the abuser MORE tools to work with, and makes it easier for them to abuse their victim.  Please talk about this possibility with your own therapist, and DO NOT seek couples counseling until you have determined that it is safe to do so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

OH, and as far as whether or not I've done something wrong, he definitely sees any sex outside of a committed relationship as wrong.  And since I am his wife, it really affects him. 


Doesn't matter.  If you haven't had sex outside of this relationship, with him, since you were in it, your past is your own, and it shouldn't matter.  He knew you weren't a virgin, he knew you'd had previous sexual encounters - he chose to marry you anyway.  His doing.  If he can't handle the heat, he needs to get out of the kitchen (so to speak).

 

 

ETA - the get out now comment was a gut reaction on my part.  Having been in an abusive relationship, I know its not that simple.  Do keep in mind though that abusive rarely gets less severe, and almost always gets more severe.  Him threatening violence on himself is a sign that he may start threatening or perpetrating violence on you at some point in the future.  I would come up with a list of Domestic Violence services/shelters that you can contact in an emergency, and of course, PLEASE call 911 IMMEDIATELY if he is violent towards you or your child.

post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Now he has called me to say that he is leaving and doesn't deserve my deception.  And asked me to tell him one reason to stay with me and I told him I'd tried that before.He also called me pathetic and said that I was going to have a battle on my hands..   I am now leaving and taking my children and getting out of here.



GOOD.  File for divorce and custody while you're at it, and write down, and DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT everything that you can remember thats happened - to be used in a custody battle.  Abusers often fight for custody not b/c they want the children, but b/c they want to punish their victim even more.

post #23 of 42
Sounds like you're making a good choice. I'm sorry this is happening to you. I hope you realize that this is all about him and has nothing to do with you.
post #24 of 42

Good luck to you.  I think you're making the right choice.  

post #25 of 42
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Originally Posted by Witch's Titee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


Yikes!!!!  Clearly there is a LOT going on here.  You didn't do anything wrong.  This is really about him, in every way.  HE needs some seriously therapy as well.  Marriage therapy would be a good start as a therapist will likely nudge him in that direction.  Good luck...  That is a lot to put up with when you didn't even do anything wrong. 
 


Maybe not. My experience with marriage therapy is that the therapist is to treat the relationship as the client...In other words, prioritizing the existence of the relationship over the OPs quality of life.

I say it's time to put him out. It will either be a wake-up call and he'll fix himself/apologize, or he'll continue to attempt to break down your psyche. Either way, you have to say 'No' to mental manipulation, because nobody is immune to that kind of mess and it can take you apart. Better to do something COMPLETELY different with your life.

 

Best wishes for lots of grounded, solid decision-making. But it sounds pretty open-shut to me. Ick.


If that was your experience with marriage therapy, that is too bad.  A good therapist will suggest individuals seek individual therapy if the need is there....which in OP's DH's part, it is.
 

post #26 of 42

I am glad you're leaving. Having been there, I know it's difficult. In a way, he's doing you a favor by being the one initiating it. I had to wait until the horror of leaving was not as bad as the horror of staying (and I was convinced that divorce was evil and I'd go to hell for it - interestingly enough, the people at my church, including my leaders, told me congratulations - they knew what he really was, obviously).

 

Make sure you're in a safe place, if you can. And I agree with a pp, document! Document everything. Even if you don't end up using it, you will have made yourself safer for the "just in case" scenarios. If there's a safe person to stay with, that would be best. If you could document enough to get a restraining order or an order of harassment, that could help your sanity.

 

If all the stuff we're saying to you is making you tear out your hair and you're screaming, "I can't do all that!" Please understand that we say what we do because many of us have been there and have actually gotten out. We don't like seeing another woman suffer like we did. Obviously, your life is yours to live and yours to figure out. Do what you feel you need to do and understand that, even though we haven't met you and wouldn't recognize you if we saw you, that we care about you. We love you.

post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by la mamita View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Thanks to eveyrone for your input.  It is helpful.  I guess I need to draw the picture more clearly.  DH says that the real issue is that I did not tell him the complete truth in the beginning, after being the one to bring it up.  The reason I told him about it - basically number of partners and what types of relationships they were - was that in my 22 year old mind, I felt like my life partner would need to know about the history overall and be willing to deal with it, or know about it and decide not to marry me.  By revealing details, saying I had gotten it all out, but then later coming up with more, he says I was manipulating him.  I can see what he's saying some, but of course, that's not how I saw it at the time. I saw that here was this man I loved and I was telling him things so he would know, but then he'd ask all these questions and get so angry, so I'd say some things and then shut down because the anger was so difficult to handle.   




but, you said you gave him the scope of things when things were getting serious, and that his negative reaction prompted you to stop giving details. so, when the chips were down, he had his chance to hear you out, to listen to your past, to understand the part of you that is PAST and not his and not his to control and not his to judge, and he made it clear that he was unable to do so. you are not expected to detail every sexual encounter you have ever had, especially if you are going to receive hateful and hurtful responses to it! and i have to say, even if there was no history of abuse and you had just matured sexually early and lived a wild adolescence, his reaction is totally unacceptable. the fact that you were abused and treated without respect while still a child (!!) just makes all the more reason that you deserve a loving, understanding, accepting response to your past. i think PPs have said good things about how shocked and wrong this whole situation seems. stay safe, please.


This! Exactly. You tried to tell him and he freaked. He needs to own that.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by mamalisa View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

OH, and as far as whether or not I've done something wrong, he definitely sees any sex outside of a committed relationship as wrong.  And since I am his wife, it really affects him. 


My answer to him would be he shouldn't have married me then.  He knew you had a sexual past and it was his choice to marry you anyway.  The details of that past are irrelevant and certainly don't matter after 16 years of marriage.  At least they shouldn't in my eyes.



 

Again. This! He knew. Again. You tried to tell him.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Now he has called me to say that he is leaving and doesn't deserve my deception.  And asked me to tell him one reason to stay with me and I told him I'd tried that before.He also called me pathetic and said that I was going to have a battle on my hands..   I am now leaving and taking my children and getting out of here.


Honestly, it sounds like he wanted to leave and for whatever reason needed to find a way to blame it on you so all of a sudden he's tripping out about this. I am seriously wondering if he is having an affair, be it emotional or sexual. He's looking for a way out of your marriage, whether it makes sense to anyone else or not. Do you have anyone supportive, or can you take the kids and go to a DV shelter? He sounds like he can go from zero to very dangerous in a very short amount of time. And as far as him saying that you have a battle on your hands....I'd love to see any judge that's going to give you any grief at all over something you did when you were 16. Even the most conservative judges are not that stupid. Anyways, please get some support for yourself and if possible go to a safe house. He sounds really unstable and capable of anything at this point. Be safe. ((((((HUGS)))))

post #28 of 42

 


Honestly, it sounds like he wanted to leave and for whatever reason needed to find a way to blame it on you so all of a sudden he's tripping out about this. I am seriously wondering if he is having an affair, be it emotional or sexual. He's looking for a way out of your marriage, whether it makes sense to anyone else or not. Do you have anyone supportive, or can you take the kids and go to a DV shelter? He sounds like he can go from zero to very dangerous in a very short amount of time. And as far as him saying that you have a battle on your hands....I'd love to see any judge that's going to give you any grief at all over something you did when you were 16. Even the most conservative judges are not that stupid. Anyways, please get some support for yourself and if possible go to a safe house. He sounds really unstable and capable of anything at this point. Be safe. ((((((HUGS)))))


Hopefully I'm very wrong, but the same thing came to my mind.  It really sounds like he want to be the good guy and blame you as an easy way out.  Please don't take his negative claims on you as any sort of reality.  My best to you, OP.

post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamalisa View Post

Do you have a support system?  It doesn't sound like this is a safe environment for you and your girls.  I would suggest calling an abuse hotline and start making a safety plan.  He sounds unstable and scary.  What does your counselor say?  I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this.  It sounds like he's coming unglued ((hug)).



yes, this.  please stay safe.

post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios View Post

Now he has called me to say that he is leaving and doesn't deserve my deception.  And asked me to tell him one reason to stay with me and I told him I'd tried that before.He also called me pathetic and said that I was going to have a battle on my hands..   I am now leaving and taking my children and getting out of here.



Wow, has he ever got that one backwards. He's the one that blames the victim, claims that he is the one being hurt by your history, and that he doesn't deserve to be treated like that?

 

What he doesn't deserve is someone who was willing to be honest with him about such a sensitive matter. I say good riddance. You are too good for that UAV.

 

Leaving isn't going to be easy, but it will be for the best. You and your children don't deserve to have that kind of emotionally abusive person around. hug.gif

post #31 of 42

wOW. What Mamlisa said is spot on: "It's a smokescreen for something else, something inside him that is making him unhappy and he's using you as a scape goat to take the blame."

 

After 16 years of marriage, this is certainly about him not wanting to be married anymore, or about him having mental health issues, or having met someone else. Say he did talk to the priest: "Wife was not a virgin 16 years ago and now I want an anullment because of it." That would be really ludicrous on his part and (especially with children in the family) it would not go anywhere.

 

There is not reason for you to leave, let him move out. Has he made any threats of violence toward you and the kids?

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch's Titee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


Yikes!!!!  Clearly there is a LOT going on here.  You didn't do anything wrong.  This is really about him, in every way.  HE needs some seriously therapy as well.  Marriage therapy would be a good start as a therapist will likely nudge him in that direction.  Good luck...  That is a lot to put up with when you didn't even do anything wrong. 
 


Maybe not. My experience with marriage therapy is that the therapist is to treat the relationship as the client...In other words, prioritizing the existence of the relationship over the OPs quality of life.

I say it's time to put him out. It will either be a wake-up call and he'll fix himself/apologize, or he'll continue to attempt to break down your psyche. Either way, you have to say 'No' to mental manipulation, because nobody is immune to that kind of mess and it can take you apart. Better to do something COMPLETELY different with your life.

 

Best wishes for lots of grounded, solid decision-making. But it sounds pretty open-shut to me. Ick.


If that was your experience with marriage therapy, that is too bad.  A good therapist will suggest individuals seek individual therapy if the need is there....which in OP's DH's part, it is.
 


But regardless, marriage therapy is contra-indicated in cases of abuse b/c instead of helping the abuser to not be abusive, it examines the situation as though both parties are at fault - when in reality abuse is the fault of ONE party - the abuser.  Since a therapist also takes pains to make sure that people feel safe while at therapy, a victim of abuse generally reveals things that can put them in MORE danger after the therapy session, or say things that provide an abuser with more tools with which to abuse their victim.  If anyone wants more info, check out the book "Why does he DO that?" by Lundy Bancroft.  OP - you may want to read this as well, it literally changed my life after my abusive relationship!

post #33 of 42

Hugs, OP, I hope you are in a safe place.  This type of behavior can turn physical fast.  If you haven't already you can contact your local women's shelter.  Even if you don't stay there they have counselors you can talk to.

post #34 of 42
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Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch's Titee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post


Yikes!!!!  Clearly there is a LOT going on here.  You didn't do anything wrong.  This is really about him, in every way.  HE needs some seriously therapy as well.  Marriage therapy would be a good start as a therapist will likely nudge him in that direction.  Good luck...  That is a lot to put up with when you didn't even do anything wrong. 
 


Maybe not. My experience with marriage therapy is that the therapist is to treat the relationship as the client...In other words, prioritizing the existence of the relationship over the OPs quality of life.

I say it's time to put him out. It will either be a wake-up call and he'll fix himself/apologize, or he'll continue to attempt to break down your psyche. Either way, you have to say 'No' to mental manipulation, because nobody is immune to that kind of mess and it can take you apart. Better to do something COMPLETELY different with your life.

 

Best wishes for lots of grounded, solid decision-making. But it sounds pretty open-shut to me. Ick.


If that was your experience with marriage therapy, that is too bad.  A good therapist will suggest individuals seek individual therapy if the need is there....which in OP's DH's part, it is.
 


But regardless, marriage therapy is contra-indicated in cases of abuse b/c instead of helping the abuser to not be abusive, it examines the situation as though both parties are at fault - when in reality abuse is the fault of ONE party - the abuser.  Since a therapist also takes pains to make sure that people feel safe while at therapy, a victim of abuse generally reveals things that can put them in MORE danger after the therapy session, or say things that provide an abuser with more tools with which to abuse their victim.  If anyone wants more info, check out the book "Why does he DO that?" by Lundy Bancroft.  OP - you may want to read this as well, it literally changed my life after my abusive relationship!

 

Exactly, and thank you for the clarification. It is not to be taken for granted that an individual therapist will refer the abuser on to individual counseling...which is STILL contraindicated. I think the Bancroft book addresses this as well...How therapy for abusers is junk, what they really need is an abuser's program. It's about how they THINK, not how they FEEL. You can feel as mad as you want, as hurt as you want, but the choice to abuse is based on the thought process that it's some kind of OK to do so... that the partner deserves it/can take it,etc.
 

post #35 of 42

...

post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by number572 View Post

 


Honestly, it sounds like he wanted to leave and for whatever reason needed to find a way to blame it on you so all of a sudden he's tripping out about this. I am seriously wondering if he is having an affair, be it emotional or sexual. He's looking for a way out of your marriage, whether it makes sense to anyone else or not. Do you have anyone supportive, or can you take the kids and go to a DV shelter? He sounds like he can go from zero to very dangerous in a very short amount of time. And as far as him saying that you have a battle on your hands....I'd love to see any judge that's going to give you any grief at all over something you did when you were 16. Even the most conservative judges are not that stupid. Anyways, please get some support for yourself and if possible go to a safe house. He sounds really unstable and capable of anything at this point. Be safe. ((((((HUGS)))))


Hopefully I'm very wrong, but the same thing came to my mind.  It really sounds like he want to be the good guy and blame you as an easy way out.  Please don't take his negative claims on you as any sort of reality.  My best to you, OP.

 

This brings up memories for me, oh geez, sad painful, yet healed ones. An affair is what went through my mind, so I'll hijak for a sec, so you can see why I thought it.

 

Here's a similar story, without initial abuse, maybe coercion. My first sexual encounter was with this really cute guy I had a crush on, I was 13. We ended up "doing it,' very young, didn't even date. I feel 'guilty,' about this, for one I was 13, two we didn't date, and three I had enough of the 'Church' influence for added guilt on top of society.  My next serious boyfriend I dated for 2 and a half years, ending at 17, we were very serious and had an active sex life. Flip to my next boyfriend, a 22 year old HOT 'virgin,' I was 17. At some point he became very interested in my history, in a you are lying to me kind of way. Why are you keeping things from me, making me look like a COMPLETE jerk. Very very similar to what you are dealing with right now, I would remember stuff and forget other stuff. And the details would grow as I thought about it-also accused of manipulating. Only I was 19, didn't have as much to lose except to me at the time - my world. I got depressed. He wouldn't even be friends with guys - as a teen I still had many guy friends. He would incinuate that they were more than friends, men can't be friends, they don't know how. He even had me believing that he loved me so much, that if I wasn't lying about whatever details, that his heart was sure I was lying about then his love must be false. He tried to include my family, put a trojan horse onto my computer so he could see whatever I was doing, etc. I went to counselling, thought I was in the wrong, etc, etc. Was very hard on myself, thought I was really messed up.  So I got a lot from counseling, told him we'd work on things, and I'd stop lying. And I did, told him the truth about everything, including any details he wanted to know, completely compliant.  Got on anti-depressants, and took the fall, even with therapy. And even in therapy we found tons of reasons why I must be a liar. He never went to therapy, even when I asked. Things were rocky at first, but then things got back into routine and I was 'recovering' from being a liar. And we made it through it. TWO years later, he confessed about cheating on me during that time period. He wanted to know details back then, I presume so he could attempt to forgive himself. I'm not sure.

 

Definitely not saying this is the case with DH. What I learned was, your past is what makes you who you are, the good, the bad, even the hidden. The desire to conceal information is two-fold, to protect the ones you love, as well as yourself. It is HEALTHY to protect yourself. You know your husband and what he's capable of, he's also, at this point, manipulating you. Protect yourself from as much as you can, if he's anything like my situation you'll be going through a lot of self-doubt, a lot of self-induced hurt, questioning yourself, how he might be right etc.  Be careful here. If you guys work on the marriage, it'll be a struggle and I wish you the best of luck. I can only imagine to be going through all that after 16 years of being together. I am deeply sorry you are facing this.

post #37 of 42

Hugs. Honey, your husband's behavior is WAY out of line. Way, way, WAY out. I can understand him being upset if you'd told him you were a virgin before marriage, sure; and I even get his being sad that you had a previous sexual history. DH wasn't a virgin when we got married, and I definitely had to process that and grieve a little. But after only four years, it doesn't bug me any more, and hasn't for a while. After sixteen years, surely it should be a total non-issue except insofar as he cares about how the abuse affected you? I mean, you've proven your commitment to him - you have two children, for goodness' sake! - and the reasons you didn't reveal more about your past are extremely understandable. His lack of compassion and weird demands are... not a normal response to this. Really - he wants you to write to the priest and your old college friends?? I mean, what?

 

I hope you stay safe. He doesn't sound very stable to me. And I'm pretty sure he has no grounds for annulment, so if he wants out he'll just have to get a divorce and ruin his good-Catholic-boy image.

post #38 of 42


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

But regardless, marriage therapy is contra-indicated in cases of abuse b/c instead of helping the abuser to not be abusive, it examines the situation as though both parties are at fault - when in reality abuse is the fault of ONE party - the abuser.  Since a therapist also takes pains to make sure that people feel safe while at therapy, a victim of abuse generally reveals things that can put them in MORE danger after the therapy session, or say things that provide an abuser with more tools with which to abuse their victim.  If anyone wants more info, check out the book "Why does he DO that?" by Lundy Bancroft.  OP - you may want to read this as well, it literally changed my life after my abusive relationship!

This book is excellent if you want to know what goes on inside an abuser's head, and it isn't just physical abuse. When I was reading this book it was like, "Do you know my husband and did you peek into our marriage?"
 

post #39 of 42

hug.gif  You do not need him in your life:  he is controlling you.  Control is abuse.  Take your children, hug them, hug them, hug them, and go somewhere safe.  Hug your children some more after that.

 

Please realize that you DO NOT deserve this.  You DID NOTHING WRONG.  Please repeat this.  Be strong and look at this as a positive, not a negative.  A new chance and a new start. 

 

 

 

post #40 of 42

Oh Mamma

 You do not deserve this at all. I'm usually the one to say well let's examine this from the other person's point of view. When I try to do that in this situation I come up with nothing. Well I do feel like he's looking for out of the marriage and blaming you for it.

 

His demands that you "out" yourself to college friends  sends my abuse siren off at full blast.  I mean really how will this help? It will humiliate you I'm sure. And that makes your relationship better how? That makes him happier how? The only way i see it making him feel better is that he is getting satisfaction from your pain. THAT IS ABUSE. When someones reaction when they are feeling hurt is to hurt someone that is abuse.

 

It can be extremely difficult to deal with accepting that the person you love and care for is an abuser.  Especially when it's emotional abuse. I know in my case I had the hardest time labeling it abuse because that meant I was lumping him in with monsters. And, as I rationalized it, he wasn't a monster, he was just doing  things that were hurtful. I 'd  say well I'm not perfect either, I can be a real jerk sometimes too. I'd say  "if i had just kept my mouth shut about this", or "if i had just done what he asked"...     People do not have to be 100% bad to be abusers In fact I think all the survivors of abuse will tell you that abusers are kind at times, gentle,  and charismatic,  they lure us back in once we've toed the line. Here's the thing though,  the abuse doesn't go away. It escalates. The kind gentle times start to evaporate and you start scrambling to do the right thing so that you'll find that guy he used to be.  Sometimes the abuse escalates because the abuser is malicious. Sometimes it escalates because they have  justified their actions in their own mind. It does not  have anything to do with you.

 

It also tough because when we do leave people don't understand when we mourn a relationship like that. If he was such a jerk why do you care he's gone. I think it's normal to care, but healthier to leave.

 

I don't think the man you are describing here can be reasoned with. I don't think he wants to be reasoned with. Lawyer up and take the advice from those mamma's on here that have left  a marriage with kids. Good Luck.

 

 

 

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