What do you think of tofu? - Page 2

[CherryBomb]

Some studies have suggested that fetal exposure to phytoestrogens can have negative long term effects.

[Annie Mac]

Huh. Interesting. I just wiki'd phytoestrogens. Here's the link, for anyone who might be interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens

And then I've taken this directly from the wiki text: 

" A more comprehensive list of foods known to contain phytoestrogens includes: soybeans, tofu, tempeh, soy beverages, linseed (flax), sesame seeds, wheatberries, fenugreek, oats, barley, dried beans, lentils, yams, rice, alfalfa, mung beans, apples, carrots, pomegranates,^[17] wheat germ, rice bran, soy linseed bread, ginseng, hops^[18], bourbon, beer^[19], fennel and anise.^[20]"

So, there's a lot of foods with phytoestrogens in them. I wonder why soya gets extra-vilified? Could it be political? Maybe? Flax is still our wunderkind, after all, and it's on the list too! The fact is, I loves me a good wheat-based, sesame seed bagel. I am unlikely to stop eating them. Apple carrot juice? Yum, yum! People have been eating these foods for quite some time. What's new is our daily use of plastics and shampoos and conditioners and pesticides. I believe all these products contain xenoestrogens, and are likely more harmful than a block of tofu.

[cocobean]

Estrogen is enormously involved in ttc and research shows that soy mimics estrogen and can cause problems.  If you don't have to many issues with hormones you probably don't have to worry to much about it but if you do it is a concern.  I have pcos and thus have to worry about my hormone levels.

[CherryBomb]

I think soy gets more attention because of the levels (has much more than fermented soy and other products), but honestly it's not an issue I've researched extensively since I don't like soy to begin with because it affects me negatively.  There is definitely a political component to soy, though not in the way you were insinuating, I think.  Soy is a huge lobbying power in the US (think Monsanto).

[Sayward]

whoops

[Annie Mac]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb 

I think soy gets more attention because of the levels (has much more than fermented soy and other products), but honestly it's not an issue I've researched extensively since I don't like soy to begin with because it affects me negatively.  There is definitely a political component to soy, though not in the way you were insinuating, I think.  Soy is a huge lobbying power in the US (think Monsanto).

Damn! Not the conspiracy theory I wanted (although maybe it's backlash, hmm...)! Hee hee :)  I guess it's just another one of those "if it works for you, then you have the option; if not, you don't have to eat it" things.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb 

I think soy gets more attention because of the levels (has much more than fermented soy and other products), but honestly it's not an issue I've researched extensively since I don't like soy to begin with because it affects me negatively.  There is definitely a political component to soy, though not in the way you were insinuating, I think.  Soy is a huge lobbying power in the US (think Monsanto).

When I think of Monsanto, though, I think of genetically modified soy which is used for a vast range of commericial purposes.  I also don't think of tofu when I think of Monsanto.  Monsanto is in the business of promoting and selling genetically modified soy which is used as a product in everything from candles to hair conditioner.  Monsanto isn't powerful because it is selling blocks of tofu in your local green market, it is huge because genetically modified soy (as a product used in other foods and materials) is such a versatile product and is cheap and easy to grow.  I don't think many people realize how much GM soy is utilized in everyday products on the market.  In my opinion, there is a huge difference between commericalized soy (which is backed by powerful interests) and the stuff that you can curd in your own kitchen. 

 

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by cocobean 

Estrogen is enormously involved in ttc and research shows that soy mimics estrogen and can cause problems.  If you don't have to many issues with hormones you probably don't have to worry to much about it but if you do it is a concern.  I have pcos and thus have to worry about my hormone levels.

Yup. See, this is what I heard. And I DO have problems with my cycles. I pretty much don't ovulate without clomid. So. Avoiding the soy for now. Thanks!

[CherryBomb]

You seem to be arguing that because GM soy products are in everything else, they're somehow not in tofu?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Yes, it has widespread commercial applications, but that doesn't translate into it not being in the food supply.  Here, even tofu magazine has a warning about it- http://www.tofu-magazine.net/newVersion/pages/GM-tofu.html 

Being able to make something in your kitchen does not somehow mean that the commercially prepared version is healthy and free of GMOs.  I can make "chicken nuggets" here in my kitchen, from chickens that I raised and butchered myself, with all organic ingredients.  But I wouldn't claim that means McDonald's are healthy.

I'm sorry, but it's just not true that Monsanto has limited themselves to non-food endeavors.  Tofu might not be a big market in the US, but it sure as heck is in other parts of the world, and that's precisely why Monsanto has extended their reach worldwide.  They're everywhere, and it's not just soy (corn is their other big money maker).

There's a wealth of information on this available on the web.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb 

You seem to be arguing that because GM soy products are in everything else, they're somehow not in tofu?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.  Yes, it has widespread commercial applications, but that doesn't translate into it not being in the food supply.  Here, even tofu magazine has a warning about it- http://www.tofu-magazine.net/newVersion/pages/GM-tofu.html 

I'm sorry, but it's just not true that Monsanto has limited themselves to non-food endeavors.  Tofu might not be a big market in the US, but it sure as heck is in other parts of the world, and that's precisely why Monsanto has extended their reach worldwide.  They're everywhere, and it's not just soy (corn is their other big money maker).

There's a wealth of information on this available on the web.

No, I wasn't making an argument about Monsanto not being in tofu, rather, I was trying to show (somewhat inartfully) that Monsanto's political connections have a lot more to do with its massive business interest in soy as a product used in everyday goods than in good ole tofu.  Many people don't realize that such products are put into many things on the market - including foods that don't even purport to be a soy product.  Of course their products are used in food - I was trying to give other examples of the extent that soy is used.  Industry's reliance on soy is bigger than anyone can imagine.  Monsanto's empire rests on soy, not tofu in itself.  They may produce tofu or the materials to produce tofu, but their lobbying interests are not about tofu.  I don't think tofu will have that much lobbying interest in D.C. for a long time!
 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 Being able to make something in your kitchen does not somehow mean that the commercially prepared version is healthy and free of GMOs.  I can make "chicken nuggets" here in my kitchen, from chickens that I raised and butchered myself, with all organic ingredients.  But I wouldn't claim that means McDonald's are healthy.

 I wasn't making that connection.  But, the connection that a lot of people make is that because it is "bad" in the market it must therefore be bad everywhere and under any means.  Even here, there seems to be a consensus that because commercialized soy products are deemed bad, then tofu in general must be bad.  I'm just trying to differentiate.  You illustrate the difference yourself with the chicken nugget example.

[Kelilah]

People worry about phytoestrogens in soy because commercially packaged food is loaded with way more soy than human beings would normally eat.  A non-TF American family who eats Kellogg's cereal (maybe with "healthy" non-organic soymilk) for breakfast, Rice-A-Roni for lunch, Stouffer's lasagna for dinner, and a bunch of packaged snacks in between is consuming far more soy and corn than anything else.  Eventually that's going to build up and cause problems.  Those of us who are eating whole foods, as long as we're healthy, don't need to be afraid of occasional tofu in my opinion.

[CherryBomb]

Ah, I got you CatsCradle.  Sorry :)   I have a newborn, my reading comprehension isn't that great at the moment, lol.

[Pogonia]

When I first read The Whole Soy Story by Kaayla Daniels, I finally understood what health condition I was dealing with...vulvodenia. And I hadn't even gone looking for such a thing! But doctors had just dismissed my painful symptoms and could come up with nothing, so it was good to finally understand what I was dealing with. We were pretty heavy users of soy milk and tofu and I sometimes wonder if it contributed to my husband's prostate cancer since it messes up the hormones. I also feel it's why I deal with thyroid issues now. Unless it's a fermented type of soy, I stay far, far away from it!

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb 

Ah, I got you CatsCradle.  Sorry :)   I have a newborn, my reading comprehension isn't that great at the moment, lol.

No worries, CherryBomb!  I probably didn't express myself very well in the other post but I think we're on the same page.  Congrats on your new baby!

[Naturopath Mom]

Everyday or often consumption of soy causes problems, I have gotten away from soy/tofu for many reasons, all of them for health (cause I love it!)

Hormone inbalances, thyroid problems and fibroids as well. Even in cultures where soy is a long time part of the diet, they do not eat it very often.

Moderation, yes!

[Koalamom]

 We avoid soy because of  food allergies.  I consumed way too much soy as a teenager and suffered yerrible thyroid issues from it.  And My mother devloped breast lumps, precancerous, and they were high in estrogen in unnormal amounts.  She was drinking lots of soy milk at the time.  So no soy for me.

What I want to know- is regular tofu a traitional food?  If the chineese have been eating it for thousands of years, how did they handle the extra estrogen?  I read somewhere that they only consumed fermented tofu.  Is this true?

[Annie Mac]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

 We avoid soy because of  food allergies.  I consumed way too much soy as a teenager and suffered yerrible thyroid issues from it.  And My mother devloped breast lumps, precancerous, and they were high in estrogen in unnormal amounts.  She was drinking lots of soy milk at the time.  So no soy for me.

What I want to know- is regular tofu a traitional food?  If the chineese have been eating it for thousands of years, how did they handle the extra estrogen?  I read somewhere that they only consumed fermented tofu.  Is this true?

I've heard yes and no on the fermented tofu question. I suspect the answer has to do with amounts. The Chinese wouldn't have been eating processed foods with soy products in nearly all of them, in addition to their tofu. Our North American lifestyle, diets and the way food is processed these days differ vastly from anything anyone would have been eating just a hundred years ago. So maybe it's not only the phytoestrogens that are the culprits, as they are in many foods, not just soy. Perhaps it's the processing itself, or the myriad of chemicals we are now exposed to, or anything really. 

[JMJ]

I also read about the fermented tofu in Nina Planck's "Real Food."  I really try not to eat soy that is not naturally fermented.  I eat Shoyu with my sushi, but that's about it.  We're pretty intense, though, trying to cure DD's cavities with diet.  If we were completely healthy, a little naturally prepared, unfermented tofu from time to time wouldn't be a big deal to me if the rest of our diet was good, but I wouldn't plan on putting a lot of it into our diet.

OP, if you cannot afford good quality meat, would you consider buying less meat and investing in good quality meats for when you do have meat?  I have a chicken supplier who gives me chicken carcasses and organs for free (or a small tip).  He would throw them away otherwise.  I can pick extra meat off the bones and make bone broth.  I have a fish supplier who gives me fish bones for 50 cents/lb.  Our grass-fed beef/lamb provider's marrow bones are a little more expensive, $2 or so/lb, but then you get the marrow as well.  Beef and lamb organ meats tend to run $3-4/lb.  I cook my grains in bone broths and make vegetable soups, so for very little, you can get the nutrients from meat without spending a whole lot or eating a lot of meat.  If you can invest in a larger portion of an animal, you can get meat for $3-$3.50/lb, so grass-fed meat does not have to cost a fortune

To increase variety and not cost, there are a number of wonderful beans out there to eat that contain fewer phytoestrogens than soy, and there are fermented soy products that do not contain the anti-nutrients in unfermented soy.  Consider traditional miso or tempeh.  Eat more eggs and fish and nuts.  I just wouldn't plan to make tofu a major part of your diet.

Edited by JMJ - 11/29/10 at 3:34pm

[serenbat]

beans can be soaked with kombu seaweed to aid the digestion

We are ANTI-soy!