wrestling to sleep..is this normal?

[doulawoman]

So I posted a while back about bouncing dd to sleep for every single nap and through most every nap as well as often during the night. We have since discovered she has reflux and after trying everything under the sun she is on Zantac and it seems to be helping. We also have the head of our bed propped up. She is 20lbs and 9 mo this week and starting to resist the bouncing but she also resists everything else to get her to sleep too. I have continued to try. I wish she;d just nurse to sleep! Recently, she has nursed to sleep a few times when she wouldn't bounce to sleep but was exhausted and nutty and screaming and whining....*BUT* I had to repeatedly (like 20+ times) flip her back onto her back/side and often hold her so she couldn't escape, she;d be fallign asleep, eyes rolling back then suddenly get up and clown around, and eventually gets hysterical, which I hate, I'm totally against CIO but what to do when ti almost seems as if she needs to cry and struggle to relax? this can't be normal?!?

I watch my other friends who do not do CIO and have multiple children and a babe aroudn the same age and their babe sleeps at other people;s homes, in carseats, strollers, nurses to sleep or even passes out on the carpet. My baby is and has been since birth uber alert and obsessed with moving. I know she's not uncomfortable side lying cause if she's sleepier like ona  good night she just nurses on her side and goes back to sleep.

But I feel like a bad mother wrestling my baby, and if I don' she doesn\t eventually pass out rockign and bouncing don't work at that point, she gets hyper and cranky and it takes hours...hours of hell.

she is very sensitive...tried to oput her in the stroller which she normally lieks yesterday to go home from the mall (usually don't have car access) and she flipped and screamed, it was a full blown tantrum I was mortified to be wrestling like that in pblic but had too much stuff to carry her. she screamed all the way home and arched her back choked it had this pitch to it that is super distressing, she was wet when we got home, which Is suspected (even though I changed her right before getting ehr into the stroller) but I had no where to change her on the walk home and it was freezing. Nothign distracted her, not snacks or toys or songs. Anyway, please tell me there's hope. What does it mean if I ahve to eitehr wrestle or boucne my hysterical child? Am i the only one??

[kismetbaby]

Oh, I feel for you mama. My DS, now 13m, has always been very active/alert and NEVER sleeps in the stroller or out in public and rarely in the car.  Just today we were on the way home and I know he was tired, but instead of falling asleep he became very agitated and screamed in the car. :( I think he was just too wound up already and wasn't able to relax even though he was tired.  He did used to sleep in the carrier, but only till about 9m then he was too interested in looking around at things.  

He will nurse to sleep, IF we are at home, in bed, with curtains closed, other stimulations removed, and he's in a calm place.  If he's too wound up, I have to start a progressive sort of quieting down with him. He won't go from being busy.excited/stimulated to asleep in 5 min like some other babes I've seen.  I spent the whole first year of his life it seems trying to figure out what he needed to sleep. . .and I've learned and he's matured, so it's pretty stable now.  Mind you he still wakes 3-5x a night to nurse and sometimes waked in the middle of a nap too.  But the fact that he'll go to sleep without a total fight is great.

He has at certain times (the worst was when he learned to crawl) needed to be "wrestled" to sleep.  Sometimes, he just won't lay still long enough to fall asleep!  And I know he's dead tired.  So here are some of the things I've done that have worked for us:

--Swaddle! when he was smaller (but still technically too old for it) I would swaddle him just to get him to be still for ten minutes and realize he was sleepy. I know some mamas that basically swaddle their babes with their arms, like a giant hug to get them to relax.  My son wouldn't stand for that, but he did like the swaddle for a time.

--create a routine and stick to it.  This has evolved for us, but basically it's bath (nighttime), brush teeth (also just for nighttime), diaper change, stories, turn out the light, lay down on the bed.  And this routine begins around the same time every night and begins about 30min before I expect him to fall asleep.  Naps are a little easier for us, but follow an abbreviated routine.

--model the behavior.  This one has been huge for us.  I always try to settle myself down too!  I try and get into a quiet frame of mind, I take deep breaths (which DS started mimicking).  And I lay down with him. . .if he refuses to lay/stay in bed, then I just close the bedroom door and stay in bed myself.  Every so often I remind him quietly that its night time and time to sleep.  Eventually he'll crawl back into bed with me.

Hope that helps, I know you have been dealing with reflux, so is it possible that she has just has bad/painful associations with falling asleep?  You will probably have to be very patient in showing her that falling asleep can be gentle and safe and enjoyable.  Is it possible she is dealing with a food sensitivity as well?  Those can manifest as bad sleep sometimes.  Just brainstorming here.

[3xMama]

I don't have much in the way of suggestions, but I wanted to let you know that my DS (a few days shy of 12 mos) has basically always needed a little cry time before he fell asleep. Even when he was a wee teeny thing and I rocked him and held him while he was falling asleep and then while he napped, he just needed to cry a little. If he didn't cry long enough, he wouldn't fall asleep.  I think he just needed to get a last bit of energy out? I've also heard of other babies needing a bit of a cry before they could relax enough to fall asleep. So I would say that it isn't abnormal for your DD to need a cry/wrestle (since she's a bit older) to get that last bit of energy out and relax totally. Good luck, I hope you get some relief soon!!

[quantumleap]

I don't know if it's "normal", but our dd has always been a crappy sleeper, and I have always been in awe of those children who sleep anywhere, through anything, pas out while playing, etc. It just doesn't seem possible!

We went through a months long period (from about 9/10 months to about 13 months) where sleeping required about an hour (sometimes more, sometimes less) of screaming and crying and physical fighting. It DID get better, but dd still physically fights about 30% of her sleeping times. It does feel awful, doesn't it? I often just want to sob along with her. Or throw her out the window. I don't have suggestions, really. Switching dd's bath time to the morning instead of before bed helped a bit, which is a little counter intuitive, but I think the tub just winds her up. She's almost two now, and sleep is still a massive struggle. Some kids just need more help, I think.

Hang in there. You're doing the best you can, and, ultimately, that's all you can do. You're not alone, in any case!

[ekh]

our 14 month old, who is very very active and busy, often has a good scream right before she falls asleep. She also has to stand up, fall down, stand up, fall down in the bed sometimes before she sleeps. it was worse before and is getting better. some months ago, we always had to hold onto one foot while she fought to sleep so she wouldn't tumble out of the bed. she would get MAD. and then finally fall asleep. my older daughter has had her own, different sleep peculiarities. hang in there! when you figure out her current sleep needs and get into a routine, it will get easier...

[SilverFish]

my 8month old dd i would consider to be a very good sleeper, but she often seems to have periods like that. right now is one (very closely related to learning to crawl, i think). honestly, i don't feel bad about practically laying on her. the weight and pressure of my body really seem to help her relax and calm down. i find that very slowly increasing the pressure helps, since if you just grab them in a bear hug, they're going to freak out. but i start by just laying my hand on her arm, and then slowly putting more weight down and then trapping her legs and by that point she might be just fussing a bit and then 5 minutes after that she's passed out. we always used to swaddle too, and still could i guess but i rarely do unless me holding her isn't working.

we also get the crying to sleep sometimes too... last night she just bawled and bawled on the breast for a good 15 minutes. then she'd start nursing again, seem like she was fully asleep and start crying again. she's in my arms, nipple in mouth, freshly changed and dressed, the room is quiet and dark and i'm relaxed... i figure she just needs to let out that emotional energy and there's no point trying to stop it.

just a note: CIO is specifically refering to the practice of sleeping training by leaving a child alone in a sleeping space, crying or not, until they fall asleep. you could not be doing CIO if your baby cries in arms or in bed next to you (unless i guess you were purposely ignoring a need or something).

[doulawoman]

Thank you everyone! It is so good to know I'm nto alone..sometime sI wodner what the landlords think when they hear her shrieking. I just wrestled her for 20 mins, she;d actually eb asleep for a min then get up and cry and crawl away...I got exhausted and brought ehr out here and she is playing...but usually she wont just oplay she'll scream whatever I do. I just wish EVERYTHING didnt have to eb a striggle with her.

[marinak1977]

Ah yes, DS recently added crawling away and playing to his repertoire of sleep fighting. He usually nurses to sleep but lately he would nurse some then crawl off and start playing. There is just too much in the world to explore to waste time sleeping. ;) At least according to him.

[newmomrose]

Our daughter needed to be bounced to sleep most of the time until she was nearly a year old. I held her for almost all naps, bouncing on the exercise ball and nursing her to sleep, or bouncing her in the ERGO, or bouncing her wrapped in a blanket in my arms. It was a slow process to get her to sleep laying down, and EVERY time there was a new milestone, she got really really difficult to get to sleep. Learning to crawl and learning to walk were some of the worst. She would be almost asleep or fully asleep and then suddenly she'd be up on all fours and trying to get up. We added music to our bedtime routine and that seemed to really help, as did getting a twin bed that one of us could lay down with her on. We co-sleep on and off but when she is having an easier sleeping life she sleeps through the night in her own room sometimes, other times comes to bed with us in the middle of the night. We fully co-slept until she was about 10 months old or so, then started naps and some night-times in a crib (laying her down after she fell asleep -- she would NEVER fall asleep if we laid her down awake), then the twin bed. We would also have to have the house/room COMPLETELY dark and quiet.

She is now 21 months and going through another phase of sleep issues (coinciding with a language explosion, speaking in sentences). However, for the previous 3 months she was sleeping in her own room after I laid down with her for 10-15 minutes, sleeping at least 6 hours straight every night, then often joining us in the early morning for a nurse and cuddle before sleeping for another 3-4 hours.

I came to Mothering tonight to get support for our current challenges with falling to sleep but ended up realizing that this is really just part of her pattern of difficulty falling asleep when she's going through a major change, and we just need to ride it out. Every other phase passed and things got progressively better over time. Compared to where we started (needing to bounce to sleep and be held or next to someone while sleeping, with falling asleep often taking over an hour) an extended time of falling to sleep (30 minutes) with some crying and wrestling seems like a clear improvement, and I can make the connection that this is probably developmental and will pass soon.

So, to sum, yes this sounds pretty normal to me and it will pass with patience, but it might take some effort to transition when your baby is ready (or when you need to make a change). Good luck!

[justKate]

Originally Posted by doulawoman 

Thank you everyone! It is so good to know I'm nto alone..sometime sI wodner what the landlords think when they hear her shrieking. I just wrestled her for 20 mins, she;d actually eb asleep for a min then get up and cry and crawl away...I got exhausted and brought ehr out here and she is playing...but usually she wont just oplay she'll scream whatever I do. I just wish EVERYTHING didnt have to eb a striggle with her.

You're doing fine.  Some kids NEED the pressure on their bodies to get to sleep.  We held DD in a spoon-sleeper-hold for the first 13 mos. of her life...then she got too strong and the bruises (on us) weren't worth it... But IMO, it is better to help a baby to sleep and let them shriek, cry, and fight you, knowing that you love them than to let them CIO.  You're showing your LO that you're in this with her.  I often think it is worse on us than it is on them. 

Totally normal, totally fine.  You're doing good, mama.  Hang in there!
 

[doulawoman]

Originally Posted by newmomrose 

Our daughter needed to be bounced to sleep most of the time until she was nearly a year old. I held her for almost all naps, bouncing on the exercise ball and nursing her to sleep, or bouncing her in the ERGO, or bouncing her wrapped in a blanket in my arms. It was a slow process to get her to sleep laying down, and EVERY time there was a new milestone, she got really really difficult to get to sleep. Learning to crawl and learning to walk were some of the worst. She would be almost asleep or fully asleep and then suddenly she'd be up on all fours and trying to get up. We added music to our bedtime routine and that seemed to really help, as did getting a twin bed that one of us could lay down with her on. We co-sleep on and off but when she is having an easier sleeping life she sleeps through the night in her own room sometimes, other times comes to bed with us in the middle of the night. We fully co-slept until she was about 10 months old or so, then started naps and some night-times in a crib (laying her down after she fell asleep -- she would NEVER fall asleep if we laid her down awake), then the twin bed. We would also have to have the house/room COMPLETELY dark and quiet.

She is now 21 months and going through another phase of sleep issues (coinciding with a language explosion, speaking in sentences). However, for the previous 3 months she was sleeping in her own room after I laid down with her for 10-15 minutes, sleeping at least 6 hours straight every night, then often joining us in the early morning for a nurse and cuddle before sleeping for another 3-4 hours.

I came to Mothering tonight to get support for our current challenges with falling to sleep but ended up realizing that this is really just part of her pattern of difficulty falling asleep when she's going through a major change, and we just need to ride it out. Every other phase passed and things got progressively better over time. Compared to where we started (needing to bounce to sleep and be held or next to someone while sleeping, with falling asleep often taking over an hour) an extended time of falling to sleep (30 minutes) with some crying and wrestling seems like a clear improvement, and I can make the connection that this is probably developmental and will pass soon.

So, to sum, yes this sounds pretty normal to me and it will pass with patience, but it might take some effort to transition when your baby is ready (or when you need to make a change). Good luck!

I cannot tell you how wonderful it was to read this post. thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I read it to my husband, it makes me feel less stuck in this phase and gives me some ideas. Thanks again and to everyone!