Concerning teacher behaviors - Page 2

[Tigerchild]

I hope you will reconsider interpreting strong disagreement or phrasing that you don't like as "bad" and "irrational" and a personal attack on you before you meet with your kid's teacher.  You may need to take a step or two emotionally back, if at all possible.

People can be attached to their children and still disagree about your course of action as you described.  It's "irrational" to attack their credentials as attached parents and to throw away a whole website community because you didn't get the answer in the words you wanted.  Look, we all overreact or are sensitive sometimes, especially when we're dealing with an issue that is really bothering us, so I don't fault you for the "I'm going away you guys are so mean" response, but I hope you'll rethink it when you have some time to calm down.

I also think that most people do not hide their dislike/suspicion as well as they think they do.  By your own admission, you have viewed this teacher with mistrust and suspicion almost from day one.  Please don't fool yourself that you haven't given her any clues.  It may be why she is stiff/short with you (not that it excuses rudeness) because she is as wary of you as you are of her--and please think about whether or not you're so reactionary now that you're interpreting everything in the most dire light now.  That too, is painfully obvious--even though most people think they hide it.

If I were you, I would ask to meet with her privately, not in the middle of class.  I might consider apologizing that apparent you've both gotten off on the wrong foot, and for upsetting her during your visit (you didn't intend to upset her, did you?  If not, you can certainly apologize for that and say it wasn't your intent).  You could tell her that DD seems to be having some trouble adjusting, which worries you, and admit that you were hoping to observe your DD's behavior and reactions in the classroom.  I would also ask her about the "tattletale" bit.  Let's face it--1st and 2nd graders can be pretty annoying in their tale telling, and they do often need to be taught to be more discerning, but maybe there are better ways you can support your kids' (collectively) learning about that.  I would wait to meet with her, though, until you are capable and willing to suspend your judgement and actually able to see her as a person in a non-combative and/or defensive way.  Young teachers ARE often targets of parental bullies--you may not be, but you have no idea what she has had to deal with last year and with other parents, and just as you have made a knee jerk reactive judgement based on instinct, she is not subhuman and not doing that as well.  If you are lucky, we can hope that she will also apologize for her tone once she understands that it hurt your feelings and upset YOU as well.

I would ask if there is any at home work that you could do.  Some teachers, esp. new one, do need some time with overly strong boundaries (esp. after a bad experience or two) before they feel safe enough to relax them to something more livable for everyone.  I have found that I can generally coax people out by offering to do grunt work that's not in the classroom, which gives me the opportunity to write a little happy note and turn it in--it builds bridges, and shows that you're interested in things other than checking up on her (fake it until you make it).  If you're unwilling to put in the time trying to work things out in a way that respects her comfort as well, then I guess you might as well persue a class change--though IME those are really difficult to get.

I don't think it's too late to try and "start over" with each other.  But you have to be willing to do it (and so does she).  I've found that admitting you didn't get off to the best start, that obviously you've both hurt feelings and had misunderstandings about the other's intentions can really help things get back on track.  I'd at least try to do it.  Maybe she is a terrible person, but I'm going to guess that probably she isn't.  It's worth a try, what do you have to lose?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by catinthehat 

I have found most of the replies here to be extremely irrational and almost like you are just playing the devils advocate.  I have a hard time believing that most of the mothers here would not have acted in the same way I did if they were in a similar situation with a teacher.  I DID confront dd's teacher at the conferences sevral weeks ago about several things dd had told me about and she TOTALLY denied all of them. 

  This is the first time you've mentioned having spoken to the teacher directly about your concerns. Ah, I see "our conversation the other day" was in reference to discussing your concerns? The way your original post is written, it looks as though you emailed the teacher about her reaction to you entering the class.

Honestly, even if it's all a huge misunderstanding, I don't think the teacher is a good fit for your family.

[tatermom]

Originally Posted by karne 

I need to say that I do not think that a parent's need/right to have total access to their child during the school day, during instructional time, supercedes the rights of the other children in the classroom.  I send my child to school to be in school with the teacher, not in class with student's parents.  I think it is amazing that folks don't get how hard teachers work to maintain the focus and rhythym of their classes, esp. in the early grades.  I can't imagine walking in unannounced, anywhere, and expecting someone to stop instruction, acknowledge me and provide seating.  The teacher's job is to teach, not take care of the needs of the parents during the day.

I find all of this a little underhanded, and lacking in respect.  If you need to see the child that badly, take them out of school, and let the classroom be for the children's needs, not the parent's.

Sorry OP, but I agree with the above comment.  To me, an open door policy should mean that parents can stop by, briefly see their child or observe for a few minutes from the doorway, or pull your child out of the class.  It would be extremely disruptive to have parents showing up without warning and sitting down in the classroom for an hour at a time!  Your need to spend time with your child does not outweigh the needs of the other children to have focused class time.

I do agree with you, OP, that it sounds like the teacher overreacted, does not have the best interpersonal skills, and may be overly harsh in the classroom.  All of these are cause for concern.  However, I think the main point here is that you are unhappy with this teacher, and the teacher knows it.  I would seriously look into having your daughter change classes or else work hard *with* the teacher to improve your communication with her.  The last thing you want is your daughter stuck in a class with a teacher who bears a grudge against her mother, in the type of shaming environment that you described.  Good luck, OP, I hope you take all these comments as gently as they were intended.

[purslaine]

I wouldn't be too harsh on the OP  .The school does say it has an open door policy.  Perhaps she thought that meant she could drop in....  I know I might have interpreted it as such.  Moreover, if the OP did anything wrong, then it is the teachers job to respectfully tell her.  A simple,  "oh!  You would like to observe?  We can accomodate that but you need to make an appointment" would suffice.

[One_Girl]

The schools in our area give teachers the authority over scheduling parent volunteers and allowing others in their classroom so the part about asking you to tell her first seems normal (though not the part where she was furious).  It is very disruptive on the class when parents come in and if you just want to spend time with your child the time to do that is recess or lunch, many parents drop in and eat lunch with kids.  Class time is time for working not spending quality parent-child time together.  Parents do not just drop in and observe even in the schools where there are a lot of parent volunteers, that is just not something that happens.  I would be very upset if my dd's education was cut short on a frequent basis because parents didn't value it just because she is at the beginning of her education not at the end where they do important things in a chemistry lab.  I value what my dd is learning, my dd values what she is learning, and frequent disruptions devalue that and the children who are there to learn.  Yes, it is ONLY first grade to you, but your child isn't the only one in the class and your feelings on the importance of a first grade education aren't the only ones that matter when you send your child to school. 

The rest sounds very abnormal, but it sounds like you are really pushing boundaries and irritating this teacher by disrupting her class a lot.  It sounds like there is a lot of misinterpretation and frustration on both sides. I think you should ask the principal to mediate this meeting so it isn't the two of you alone getting more over each others bad behavior.  Having the principal in can help a lot because it will remind you to stay civil and give a calm portrayal of what is really bothering you about your dd's classroom and she will stay open minded.  I suggest that you ask for a teacher change if the meeting doesn't have a good conclusion.  If the principal says no try asking for the supervisors name and number, this usually makes people cave if you have a compelling case.  It sounds like you have a very bad relationship with this teacher and if the meeting goes badly it will get worse.  Teachers sometimes have a hard time separating their feelings for a parent they don't get along with from their feelings towards very sweet wonderful students.

As someone who has had to deal with a teacher like this, who also decided on day two of class that my child was needy, not a good listener, and academically not up to par (something she reluctantly re-evaluated after the meeting with the principal), I do not understand why your child is still in this class if you have truly felt that something is wrong for this long, spoken to the principal twice, and still feel there is a serious problem.  My dd had the teacher from H*** last year, she says that the teacher is like Professor Snape from the Harry Potter book series, she still talks about how awful the teacher was and tells more things once in a while that shock me even more; and I still didn't drop in unannounced because it is not appropriate and when you have a teacher who is already not on good terms with you and your child the last thing you do is irritate them more and make your child stay the rest of the week with a teacher who is dwelling on the fury caused by her interaction with you.  I got plenty of info about the situation from my dd,  from the way the teacher addressed my concerns, and from the interactions I noticed when I was there on the rare instances I could come to volunteer.  I wound up puling my dd to homeschool because it worked for us.  Some parents in our community have their kids switch teachers, some switch schools (they allow open-enrollment all year round), and some pull their kid out to homeschool due to clashes with teachers.  Some of these things may not be options, but when it was me I was looking for money to scrimp when the principal turned down the request for a room change so I could afford a nanny or private school.  I was lucky to get the opportunity to homeschool but if I hadn't there were other options.

Edited by One_Girl - 11/16/10 at 8:22pm

[LynnS6]

Dang this new system, I just lost a long reply!

OP: Two things have struck me in this thread:

1. Your clear animosity toward this teacher. I haven't a clue as to whether it's justified or not. But as others have pointed out, it's got to come out in your interactions. You are clearly extremely unhappy with this teacher, and very emotional in your language describing your interactions with her. Before you talk to her again (I hope she responds to your e-mail reasonably), I would recommend that you write out, in very neutral language, what your concerns are. In fact, write it out, and then maybe give it to someone you trust to edit to make it more neutral. When you meet with the teacher, ask her to discuss these points and explain how your daughter could have gotten that interpretation. If she denies, for example, that she makes both kids stay in until the miscreant confesses, ask her to explain what her policy is. If her explanation doesn't make sense, then you have something to go on.

I also agree with others that having a 'neutral' third party with your meeting might be in order. Some schools assign mentor teachers to new teachers -- does she have one? That might be a good person to start with because they're not an administrator, but still someone with authority. If there is no mentor (bad on the part of the school, IMO), then it would have to be the principal. If you can't get satisfaction from this meeting, ask for a transfer.

2. The second thing that struck me is that it appears you were unaware of the disruption that unannounced visits can cause. "Open door policy" or no, classroom management is tough, especially with first graders. First graders are highly distractible, hard to keep on task, and very dependent on a routine. If you haven't taught, you may not realize this. This is a good thing to learn about how schools work, and I hope you take the information in the spirit that I think it was offered. It wasn't "oh my gosh, how awful you were, but "hey, did you know this might be a problem?" I heard a lot of defensiveness when people pointed out how hard it might be for the teacher to have an unannounced visitor. People weren't, in my opinion, defending the teacher, but explaining why unannounced visits might not be greeted with shouts of joy from the teacher. Heck, I teach college and I hate unannounced visits. It disrupts the whole flow and classroom dynamic. And my students are 20+ years old and can focus quite nicely.

I'm not sure why you're responding that the responses have been 'irrational'. Most of the responses were along the lines of "I can see why an unannounced visit would be hard on a teacher, but if she's done what you've said she's done, that's terrible and you should talk to her/the principal and maybe get your daughter moved."

[MovnMama]

As a "second year" teacher, I must agree that many non-tenured teachers are bullied by both parents and administrators, and also that they are easy targets for malicious community members. People are typically quite ready to state the a younger or less-experienced teacher is doing many things wrong in or out of the classroom and (I shudder to quote this reply) "need to get fired."

Here's the dilemma with this approach. The job of teacher in the United States is already underpaid... most reasonable people agree on this point. The workload is atrocious. The expectations are constantly getting higher without any funding or support to achieve those higher expectations. The rate for new teacher burnout is approximately 50% (of new teachers) leaving the profession in the first 5 years. Personally, last year, I worked nearly every day of the week for at least 14 hours each weekday day, and at least 5 hours each weekend day. And I had a family, with a toddler! I literally lost 20 pounds, and I wasn't exercising (like I had time!). I was also, for the record, bullied into taking on extra responsibilities, on top of learning all my best practices, planning, assessing, etc, because I *was* a new teacher, and I had sucker written on my forehead.

Despite everything this teacher is doing wrong (and she is making mistakes, for sure - lots of them) lets remember how much is being asked of her and how little support she may be receiving. Now, fine, you think she's a bad teacher and she needs to be fired. Okay, and in the next 10 years, 2/3 of the teaching force is going to be eligible for retirement. If parents and administrators don't implement support for new teachers, those will quickly figure out they can make more money for less work, and less criticism and badgering. And then what happens to the quality of education?

*stepping off my now*

OP, what is so concerning to me about your responses is that... I don't see how this teacher has a chance. She's already got an F in your book. If she can't fix it with you, why should she try? You don't sound too interested in repairing the relationship, as one excellent PP gave hints to do. I think she senses an "out for her" vibe, and it sounds like, rather than get tips to fix the situation, you wanted to hear how you were right and she was a really bad teacher. But investing in a struggling teacher rather than targeting them benefits everyone, from one student up to the entire system.

I think if you have a problem with the teacher, and you don't feel that conversations have been productive, then pull your kid out. But please, don't target. And calling her boss multiple times to tell them what a bad job she is doing sounds a bit like targeting. I would feel targeted in her shoes. Scratch that - I have felt targeted in those shoes.

[squimp]

What does it mean that the school has an open-door policy?  That any parent can come in at any time and do whatever they want?  In our school, parents are welcome in the classroom, but it is common courtesy to interact with the teacher to plan visits.  I would not really be welcome to just sit on the floor next to my DD - I could insist, but I'm pretty sure the teacher would not want me to, and it would be sort of as a hostile observer.  So honestly I can understand why she might have asked how she could help you.  She may sense you don't like her and that you were not there to help her, but to study her and gain evidence.  

My DD is in first grade and I work in her classroom every week.  I asked the teacher how I could help, and she asked me to listen to kids read.  I love doing this and it allows me to see the classroom in action.  Initially it was to observe the classroom dynamic, but now I mostly marvel at the kids and her teaching style.  But every time I walk in the room, several little heads bob up to look at me, others smile, others wave at me.  It *is* a distraction.  So it's important to have a good reason.  I honestly don't believe I should be able to go into my DD's classroom whenever I want - I think that is disrespectful of the class.  I might have felt that way when she was a baby or even a preschooler, but not once she started grade school.  

I think it's important to ask yourself why it is that you want to be in the classroom.  To me it sounds like you do not trust this teacher at all with your child.  If so, that is the fundamental issue that I would be thinking about, and I would be forming a plan to be true to yourself and your child in order to address that.  

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by karne 

I need to say that I do not think that a parent's need/right to have total access to their child during the school day, during instructional time, supercedes the rights of the other children in the classroom.  I send my child to school to be in school with the teacher, not in class with student's parents.  I think it is amazing that folks don't get how hard teachers work to maintain the focus and rhythym of their classes, esp. in the early grades.  I can't imagine walking in unannounced, anywhere, and expecting someone to stop instruction, acknowledge me and provide seating.  The teacher's job is to teach, not take care of the needs of the parents during the day.

I find all of this a little underhanded, and lacking in respect.  If you need to see the child that badly, take them out of school, and let the classroom be for the children's needs, not the parent's.

I have to agree with this. My DD is in 1st grade and I have witnessed how easily a class can be distracted by an unexpected visitor to the classroom. If you really felt the need to visit your child you should have had her step into the hallway for a moment so that you didn't disrupt the other kids in the room.
 

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

If I had a child in a school, and another parent insisted on walking into my kid's class whenever they felt like it, I'd be very angry. I believe parents have a right to be with their children at any time, but that means you can pull your kid from class to be with you. Not that you get to disrupt all the other kids.

Yes, this.  I think it's bizarre that someone would just show up announced to a class (beyond preK and Kindergarten, I suppose).  So what if you and 5 other moms decide to drop by one day?  You seriously can't see how that can be distracting and upsetting for the kids and the teacher?  I'm sorry that you don't think 1st grade is a big deal, but I'm sure she takes a lot of time to plan the day, and it can take a lot of effort to keep many small children on task.  Someone showing up out of the blue can throw that off.  My dd2 is in Kindergarten and parents are welcome to come by, but I expect that will change next year.

Your language is very combative.  Your "intuition" said "uhoh" from the first moment you met her (in other words, you never gave her chance).  You "confronted" her at the conference.  She looks at you with "pure hatred" etc etc.  Have you considered that maybe you've come off as a real jerk to her and she wasn't exactly pleased to see you?

As for "the rules" here's my take-

has a rule that if a child tells on another child for hurting, calling names, etc. and the child that did it won't admit to hurting, they both get in trouble until the child admits to what they did.   Unfair, sure, but consider for a moment if your daughter is the one accused of doing something wrong.  Would you appreciate her being punished if she insisted she didn't do it, while the other child got off scott free?  I'd imagine this rule comes from the teacher having to deal one too many times with parents who show up screaming at her about how their precious little Johnny would never do anything wrong and the other child is lying.  So if it's not witnessed and the accused doesn't fess up, they both get disciplined.  Sucks for the one that's being truthful, but it makes sense.

-when dd came to tell her that someone was hurting someone else, she said, "Why are you such a tattle tale?"  dd was crying about this becuase she didn't understand the difference between being a tattle tale and trying to take care of your friends.  So you said you "confronted" the teacher and she denied it.  Did she give any explanation of what happened, or did she just deny it?  My experience is that kids, especially sensitive ones, have a tendency to stretch things when their feelings are hurt.  My dd1 is like this.  She's not a liar, but if she feels someone has been mean to her, she exaggerates.  Example, she was outside yelling for the neighbor girl and the woman across the street told her to "be quiet already".  Rude, yes, but not horrible.  But dd1 relayed it to me as "she screamed at me to shut up!"  Totally different.  Is it possible your dd exaggerated? 

-when I come into the classroom, it is dead silent.  None of the first graders talk, and if they do, she is on them like that.  It feels like an atmosphere full of shaming, rigidity, and emotional control.   Um, maybe it's dead silent because someone showed up unannounced?  What does "on them like that" mean?  It feels like an atmosphere of "shaming, rigidity, and emotional control" to you, yet as far as you know, none of the other parents have an issue?  What was the class doing when you showed up?  Was it something where it would be appropriate for them to be talking?  I mean, were they completing a worksheet or taking a test? 

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by mum4vr 

I am a teacher, and I am a parent.

Wherever my child is, I can be.

BRAVO!!!  :clap

Why are people so willing to give up access to their children??  We are talking about 6 year olds!
 

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by Belia 

Originally Posted by mum4vr 

Wherever my child is, I can be. period. All immature feelings and taking things personally aside. If a parent cannot be where their child is announced or unannounced, someone feels they must hide something every every single time. No exceptions.

Really?  My kid had surgery last week, and I wasn't allowed to be with him.  Why??  So the doctor in whom I trusted his care could do his job.

The degree of seriousness may be different, but the basic concept is not.  I agree that the OP's language in describing this teacher is pretty judgey, and I would be pretty put off if I were interrupted in my job in such a way.   I think there was probably a way to get the information you're looking for (basically, observing the tone and tenor of the class) in a more collaborative way.

When my daughter had surgery, the only place I wasn't was the OR.  And even that, I probably could have scrubbed up and walked her back, but she was out by the time they took her (I was with her in pre=op and in post-op/recovery, and stayed in her room for the week following open heart surgery, including rounds, etc...).  The reason they don't want parents in the or is because of sterility issues and also to not distract the surgeon.  I'm sorry, but comparing school to surgery is a reach.  Also, most kids never have surgery in their lives, but will probably spend most of their waking hours in school.  So, yes, I think that parents have a right to check on them in school.  Whenever they please.
 

Edited by vbactivist - 11/17/10 at 6:24am

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by karne 

I need to say that I do not think that a parent's need/right to have total access to their child during the school day, during instructional time, supercedes the rights of the other children in the classroom.  I send my child to school to be in school with the teacher, not in class with student's parents.  I think it is amazing that folks don't get how hard teachers work to maintain the focus and rhythym of their classes, esp. in the early grades.  I can't imagine walking in unannounced, anywhere, and expecting someone to stop instruction, acknowledge me and provide seating.  The teacher's job is to teach, not take care of the needs of the parents during the day.

I find all of this a little underhanded, and lacking in respect.  If you need to see the child that badly, take them out of school, and let the classroom be for the children's needs, not the parent's.

What if you want to see how your child is doing IN the actual classroom??

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by MovnMama 

As a "second year" teacher, I must agree that many non-tenured teachers are bullied by both parents and administrators, and also that they are easy targets for malicious community members. People are typically quite ready to state the a younger or less-experienced teacher is doing many things wrong in or out of the classroom and (I shudder to quote this reply) "need to get fired."

Well, yes - they need to fire them before they get tenure, becuase once they get tenure the system is pretty much stuck with them for life :(

Here's the dilemma with this approach. The job of teacher in the United States is already underpaid... most reasonable people agree on this point. The workload is atrocious. The expectations are constantly getting higher without any funding or support to achieve those higher expectations. The rate for new teacher burnout is approximately 50% (of new teachers) leaving the profession in the first 5 years. Personally, last year, I worked nearly every day of the week for at least 14 hours each weekday day, and at least 5 hours each weekend day. And I had a family, with a toddler! I literally lost 20 pounds, and I wasn't exercising (like I had time!). I was also, for the record, bullied into taking on extra responsibilities, on top of learning all my best practices, planning, assessing, etc, because I *was* a new teacher, and I had sucker written on my forehead.

I don't think most people think teachers are underpaid.  They work less hours than most people in the private sector, even with the work they take home.  I am not aware of any profession that gets 10 weeks off a year to start. 

Despite everything this teacher is doing wrong (and she is making mistakes, for sure - lots of them) lets remember how much is being asked of her and how little support she may be receiving. Now, fine, you think she's a bad teacher and she needs to be fired. Okay, and in the next 10 years, 2/3 of the teaching force is going to be eligible for retirement. If parents and administrators don't implement support for new teachers, those will quickly figure out they can make more money for less work, and less criticism and badgering. And then what happens to the quality of education?

*stepping off my now*

OP, what is so concerning to me about your responses is that... I don't see how this teacher has a chance. She's already got an F in your book. If she can't fix it with you, why should she try? You don't sound too interested in repairing the relationship, as one excellent PP gave hints to do. I think she senses an "out for her" vibe, and it sounds like, rather than get tips to fix the situation, you wanted to hear how you were right and she was a really bad teacher. But investing in a struggling teacher rather than targeting them benefits everyone, from one student up to the entire system.

I think if you have a problem with the teacher, and you don't feel that conversations have been productive, then pull your kid out. But please, don't target. And calling her boss multiple times to tell them what a bad job she is doing sounds a bit like targeting. I would feel targeted in her shoes. Scratch that - I have felt targeted in those shoes.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

Originally Posted by mum4vr 

I am a teacher, and I am a parent.

Wherever my child is, I can be.

BRAVO!!!  :clap

Why are people so willing to give up access to their children??  We are talking about 6 year olds!
 

Well, some of us aren't.  Hence part of the reason for homeschooling.

Speaking only for myself, I am leery to leave a young child in a classroom, as you can never really know what is going on.  If you have a sense of dis-ease - what the heck can you do about it?  Young children often miscommunicate/misunderstand, and teachers often present their best face to parents.

I know myself and know I might have trust issues, lol, so it is better that I HS in the early years.

It is unfair of me to impose my trust issues (or other issues) on the school environment.  Schools run a certain way - I do not think it is perfect, but I do think they try their best to balance the needs of multiple families while creating a learning environment.  

The Op, however, has not mentionned HSing  and it is hardly the only way to resolve this issue.  Other ideas:

1.   work hard at mending the relationship with the teacher - and trying to figure out if you can trust her.

2.  If you think number 1 is not going to work, a classroom switch is in order.  It is essential a parent likes or respects a teacher in the early grades - otherwise the whole experience is going to be stressing for everyone.

[karne]

I don't know how to quote yet, but to answer the question of "what if you want to see your child IN the classroom", I would suggest talking with the teacher and/or the principal  to plan a time.  Most teachers we've had are extremely welcoming of parents, parent involvement, addressing concerns, etc.  More times than not the teachers are really concerned about our kids' adjustment to school and any issues they might be facing, ie peer issues, homework issues, classroom issues.

But truly, parking yourself in the classroom, with an agenda, is very passive aggressive.  It may be  better to just put out there what your needs are, ie I am worried about adjustment, about my child's experience in your room, about how he/she is managing the day.  

And FWIW, I don't see this as giving up access to your child.  If the 6 or 7 or so hours feel too much to be separated, maybe school isn't right for your family.  Or if you need "access" to your child, take them out of school, have lunch with them, make a plan.  In that way the experience can be between you and your child, rather than having to involve the teacher and the rest of the class in your need to be with your child during the school day.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

I don't think most people think teachers are underpaid.  They work less hours than most people in the private sector, even with the work they take home.  I am not aware of any profession that gets 10 weeks off a year to start. 

Well technically teachers do not get paifd for the summer - the only way they receive paychecks over the summer is by having their 10-month salary divided into 12 months of paychecks (and the vast majority of teachers work way more than 8-10 hours a day which is pretty dang comparable to the provate sector). Would you knock a fireman the same way - if there are no calls it is completely plausible that they might sit & do absolutely  nothing for an entire 12-hour shift.

 

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

I don't think most people think teachers are underpaid.  They work less hours than most people in the private sector, even with the work they take home.  I am not aware of any profession that gets 10 weeks off a year to start. 

Well technically teachers do not get paifd for the summer - the only way they receive paychecks over the summer is by having their 10-month salary divided into 12 months of paychecks (and the vast majority of teachers work way more than 8-10 hours a day which is pretty dang comparable to the provate sector). Would you knock a fireman the same way - if there are no calls it is completely plausible that they might sit & do absolutely  nothing for an entire 12-hour shift.

 

Well, yes, I think fireman have a lot of time off, too - my brother in law is one :)  But firemen can't get tenure.  And firemen aren't in charge of our kids for 7 or 8 hours every day. 

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

I don't think most people think teachers are underpaid.  They work less hours than most people in the private sector, even with the work they take home.  I am not aware of any profession that gets 10 weeks off a year to start. 

Well technically teachers do not get paifd for the summer - the only way they receive paychecks over the summer is by having their 10-month salary divided into 12 months of paychecks (and the vast majority of teachers work way more than 8-10 hours a day which is pretty dang comparable to the provate sector). Would you knock a fireman the same way - if there are no calls it is completely plausible that they might sit & do absolutely  nothing for an entire 12-hour shift.

 

This I have not found to be true, in my experience.  Maybe 8 - 10 hours.  Not way more than 8 - 10 hours.  If they coach a  sport or sponsor a group, they get paid for that in addition to their salary.
 

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 

Originally Posted by vbactivist 

I don't think most people think teachers are underpaid.  They work less hours than most people in the private sector, even with the work they take home.  I am not aware of any profession that gets 10 weeks off a year to start. 

Well technically teachers do not get paifd for the summer - the only way they receive paychecks over the summer is by having their 10-month salary divided into 12 months of paychecks (and the vast majority of teachers work way more than 8-10 hours a day which is pretty dang comparable to the provate sector). Would you knock a fireman the same way - if there are no calls it is completely plausible that they might sit & do absolutely  nothing for an entire 12-hour shift.

 

This I have not found to be true, in my experience.  Maybe 8 - 10 hours.  Not way more than 8 - 10 hours.  If they coach a  sport or sponsor a group, they get paid for that in addition to their salary.
 

 If you were to include all of the hours spent over the weekend/days off/holidays/vacations then yes, I most certainly believe that the majority of teachers average more than 8-10 hours a day, especially if you include all of the prep work done over the summer (which are hours that are not paid time). I have worked in an elementary school and a high school, in fact I was the student council sponsor my last year (which when you figured out how many hours I put in made my stipend worth maybe $2 an hour), and I can guarrantee that the huge majority of teachers do WAY more work than you as the parent or friend see (plus the money they spend out of their pockets to stock a classroom).

Also, tenure is not readily given to teachers, it is something that is most certainly earned (especially in this day and age where there are more teachers than jobs & those new teachers come to a district with a much lower starting salary than a tenured teacher in the same position).

Regardless, I don not think that it is fair to the teacher to expect him/her to have to deal with random (possibly lengthy if a chair was needed for the OP to take a seat) "visits" in his/her classroom and not find it disruptive and possibly frustrating.