You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.
Abandoning your children when you know a facility is closing is not bogus.
Calling it abandonment because the parent in 30 minutes late is bogus. For all you know said parent left work with enough time to arrive before closing but got stuck in a massive traffic jam because of an accident. Or they were in the accident. Really, how would it feel to be told "Sorry you were stuck in traffic but we call the cops on you because you were 30 minutes late" or "Sorry you wife died in a car accident, but we called CPS because she didn't pick the kids up on time".
You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.
There is a difference though in being late to pick up a kid from a friends house and being late to pick up a kid from school or day care. I've taught in daycare situations and had to be the one to call CPS. Mom was out with her friends and simply didn't want to pick up her daughter. That's not OK. Ever. I also was a teacher at school who ended up staying for three hours after school ended, because the baby sitter mom had hired to care for her son didn't show up, and didn't answer the phone. We called mom and dad and grandma several times trying to find someone who could take custody of the student. Finally my principal got involved and left a very curt message saying that if we didn't hear back within ten minutes the police would be called. Guess who we heard from right away? You guessed it. Mom! Who really couldn't understand why we were so unhappy to have stayed three hours after school watching her son. And PS....I was supposed to take my own son to a dr's appointment that day and had to cancel because I was stuck at school with a student for an extra three hours.
Daycare teachers often have their own kids that they need to go pick up, or get home to. Like it or not, when you put a child in daycare, you agree to abide by their hours. It's the same as any other business. You can't insist that a store or restaurant continue to provide service after hours, so why a daycare? It sucks that there are people in the world who don't "get" that the kid needs to come first, and part of growing up and being a parent is learning to put your child's needs ahead of yours, but these people are who they are.
It's really not fair or responsible for anyone in this position, paid or unpaid, to be taken advantage of like that. As far as the car accident scenario, one parent is stuck in traffic, or on their way to the hospital, that is why you have more than one person listed on the blue card who is ok to pick up your kid in an emergency. It's not like teachers watch the clock and then call CPS right away. We all certainly try very hard to find a friend or family member to take the child so that the police and cps don't have to get involved.
I've only read the first page of responses to your original post. But the thought did cross my mind whether it was related to her feeling stressed and needing some time away. Completely understandable, we all need that at times. Her error and it's a big one, was not communicating that to you and your husband.
Sometimes when our stress levels are so high, the ability to think rationally and responsibly is almost non-existent. I'm not condoning what she did and it was obviously incredibly frustrating for both you and your partner, but I do feel for her too, she's obviously struggling. And I think that it's wonderful that you are helping her further by exploring the resources that are possibly available for her ( I read a little more of the thread).
Peace
I wonder if this mom is begging for some kind of intervention. Maybe on some level she would like for CPS or inpatient psychiatry to take over, for that was a pretty desperate move on her part. Like someone else mentioned, either she's an extreme narcissist or incredibly depressed and overwhelmed. If she's depressed, hopefully it hasn't reached the point of suicidal ideation. She effectively abandoned her kid, so something major is going on and can't be ignored.
I'm the mother of a special needs child and have an ex that got addicted to crack cocaine. It started off with stress, then depression and then seeking mental help. When the mental health system didn't help him fast enough he tried drugs. Money would go missing, he would disappear without notice for hours on end even when he was supposed to home to watch ds so I could work, he had new friends but wouldn't tell me anything about them etc... Honestly this story is bringing back memories of my marriage a few months before I kicked him out and hired an attorney to get total custody and decision making over my child's care. I'm not saying that is what happening in this case but if your husband's instincts are screaming at him I think you both owe it to the little girl to let someone know and investigate.
I'm sorry but I just don't find her actions to be of a mother thinking clearly; either her thinking is muddled by stress and mental issues that can result or her thinking may be impaired by some substance but something is seriously impairing her judgment and that alone is reason enough to have her investigated. Please remember one thing if it is substance abuse addicts are excellent liars. Even to the day I kicked my ex out, he was still coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse of how this was my fault and our four year old's fault basically everybody under the sun was to blame but him. I didn't know at the time he was an addict, I found out a few months later after I kicked him out. The only thing I knew for sure at that point in time was that he was mentally unbalanced, putting my son in danger and a liar. I knew he was lying I just didn't know what the truth was and he refused to speak the truth, just told me what ever he thought I wanted to hear and if I confronted him with his behavior it only kicked off a new round of excuses and blaming everybody but himself.
I would go w/ this post. It's not something you want to believe is true, but it's very possible. For the sake of the child, I would call authorities.
I met with the mom this morning and honestly,I think she needs an intervention. Truthfully, I don't feel comfortable calling CPS but feel like I have to call somebody or do something. The mom needs some help and her sweet DD needs some resources to assist her in whatever her issues are. Originally the mom was supposed to be taking her to a special Pre K program for kids with SN but she is convinced nothing is wrong with her child. Anyhoo, we met at the park.I suggested the park because they are doing work in our building and the noise will cause her DD to freak out. Her DD left a book at our place and I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to return it and chat with the mom a bit.
The park is pretty empty in the morning and the noises that usually bother her wouldn't be an issue. We pushed the kids on the swing and I brought up what happened the other night. She said she was sorry but really needed a break and repeated the same thing she told us when she picked up her daughter. I reminded her that it's okay to ask for help and if she trusts her DD with me she could have just told me she needed me to keep her over night. Her attitude was very shrug the shoulders, whatever kind of thing. The swing my daughter was on started to squeak and her daughter stuck her fingers in her ear and started to cry. I told her we could sit on the bench if the noise was bothering her. She said her daughter would be fine and she needs to get used to hearing noises. I told her I was tired of pushing anyway and DD needed a snack and I brought enough for her DD if she was okay with them sharing. She complained that she has been keeping her too sheltered by not going places because she fears a tantrum. They went to Chuck E. Cheese and for two hours she stuck her fingers in her ear and cried until they left. Why she subjected the child and the other party goers to that I have no idea. She took her to a Yo Gabba Dabba live show and she said her daughter stuck her fingers in her ears and screamed the entire time. I asked her what the hearing doc said about it. The doctor told her the hearing test was fine but suspect a sensory issue and recommended she follow up with the surgeon who performed the daughters surgery for hydrocephalus and follow up with the primary ped.She hasn't done this yet. She's tired of people assuming something is wrong with her daughter because she is speech delayed. The sticking the fingers in the ear and screaming is a habit, flapping of the arms when she's excited it just a habit, taking off her diaper and playing and smearing feces all over herself is just a habit. There are things I've witnessed myself about her DD that would require more resources than just the mom and the speech pathologist but I've minded my own business. I know I have no idea what the mom is going thorugh. I also am not an expert.
Her DD tried to take a cracker from my DD and the mom apologized profusely. I told her it was no big deal and offered her DD some more crackers. She went on and on about being embarassed about it. I really don't want to go into details about the rest of the visit because it's depressing.The only thing I will say is her daughter needs help and I believe the mother may be mentally ill. Whether it's something she's been suffering through for years I have no idea but I believe her daughter needs help and so does she.
Is there anyway I can help the mother other than calling CPS? She seems lost and like another poster mentioned, I think she wants someone to intervene.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is any community resource that is able to meet her need except CPS. No other organization has the legal power to ensure proper action is taken. It's a tough call, and I can completely understand where you are coming from, because I've been in a similar situation with a friend. She was/is a little SN herself, and had a son that is slightly SN as well. She seemed to have a tough time accepting that B (her son) needed help. She would keep B out in the car until 3am, rationalizling that it was ok since he could sleep in the car. There ended up being several calls to CPS. Nothing much came of it except that B ended up in daycare, which IMO helped. My friend is now doing very well, is engaged, has another child, and B is thriving as well, getting the services he needs. Even though CPS didn't do much themselves I wonder if getting them called may have let her know that people DO care to make sure that B was safe. Your friend might need a similar wake-up call. If she's otherwise a good parent I don't think there is much of a chance that her daughter will get removed, but CPS will probably offer her resources and help that she may not have sought otherwise. Did you let her know that you do feel that her daughter could use some help? Sometimes that's a tough thing to say to people but hearing it from a friend can make a difference. She may be angry at first, but she'll cool down and may eventually thank you for saying something.
On one hand, my mom had a similar thing happen in a babysitting situation and she DID call the police after the mother was several hours late. They found the child's mother several days later in another state.. she had literally abandoned her child. I think the grandparents got custody.
On the other hand, no one showed up to pick me up from school when I was 8 or 9 years old once and someone stayed late at school (the principal I think) to watch me and try to get ahold of my parents. It only happened once and it was because my brother (8 years older than me) was supposed to pick me up but "forgot" because he was hanging out with his girlfriend. Needless to say, my parents were *pissed* (at my brother) and picked me up personally from that point forward.
I probably would have called the cops in the original situation. Not sure how I'd react now -- other than trying to get that little girl some help -- but I wouldn't be babysitting for free again!
--K
It sounds to me like she needs to find a group of strong, open minded mamas who also have special needs kids. She needs to see more people being proactive about their child's needs, rather than ignore it. She needs to see there's nothing to be ashamed about, and people don't think less of her if her child has special needs. I think a lot of times, women who have children with special needs feel like they're being judged negatively b/c of it. Some feel guilt because they didn't do everything perfectly during pregnancy. They see this little part of themselves, that looks like them, smiles like them, and acts like them... and the child may have an IQ below the norm or may not articulate themselves clearly and be perceived as being below average. The mother may internalize this, feeling that she comes across the same way. She in turn tries to protect her child, believing there is nothing wrong with the child because she doesn't want to admit anything might be wrong with her. Being that you suspect the mother has some mental health issues, I'm just assuming this may be the case.
Are there any local parenting magazines that include information on local resources? If so, take a look at the most recent issue and find something in the magazine (unrelated to your actual concerns) that you feel may be of interest to the mother (even something as simple as a healthy recipe you try and enjoy). Next time you see her, have the magazine ready to show her. Go on about the advertisements for local events, schools, etc. Point out the advertisements for resources you think will actually benefit her, and get really excited about her checking it out. Follow up with her in a couple days. If you know anybody who used that resource and had great things to say about it, during the follow up is time to bring it up.
Good luck!
In general, I am not for calling CPS. However, this mother is in some serious denial and it may be that the only way for her child to get help is for you to call CPS. Chances are, CPS is going to totally screen out your call and do nothing (I'm a social worker). But, maybe they won't and maybe it will get her to at least follow up with some of the specialists. I can almost promise you they aren't going to do anything dramatic, unless there are serious issues that you know nothing about.
A great book for sensory issues that might help her understand what is going on with her DD is The Out of Sync Child. Maybe you could just say someone you know who has a kid with sensory issues had read it and got some great stuff out of it for her kid (We "know" each other from this thread now, right?) Poor, poor, baby. It is so tough on kids to have these special needs and then have their parent not understand them. Good luck....
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It sounds to me like she needs to find a group of strong, open minded mamas who also have special needs kids. She needs to see more people being proactive about their child's needs, rather than ignore it. She needs to see there's nothing to be ashamed about, and people don't think less of her if her child has special needs. I think a lot of times, women who have children with special needs feel like they're being judged negatively b/c of it.
It sounds like this mom would greatly benefit from joining a support group.
I'm obviously not in a position to diagnose anyone, but as a mother of two children on the autism spectrum I can say this little girl is showing many red flags for also being on the spectrum, or at the very least, SPD. If this mom hasn't already, she really needs to find a competent neurologist/psychologist to evaluate her daughter and seek appropriate services from there.
I can understand being in denial to an extent, but the bottom line is you're doing your child a great disservice if you refuse to step out of your bubble and you're ultimately setting yourself up for disaster.
OP: I think you're very sweet to want to continue to help this mom and her DD after what she did to you.
You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.
My daycare has really strict late policies - a dollar a minute after hours, and a call to the cops at 2 hours past closing. But honestly? It let me play the daycare as the bad cop in work situations - "gee boss, you know I'd love to stay, but my daycare will call CPS on me..." - and that was a huge help. I wouldn't have minded if they'd put the deadline earlier. I just want to point out that these policies can be good for parents.
The director and teachers at my daycare are very reasonable people, they have an extensive list of people they can call if I fail to show up, and I know of at one incident where a parent didn't make it to the school until 8 p.m. and they didn't call. In that case, traffic was epically bad (the entire city choked up in a snowstorm), and the parent was on the phone to the DCP giving them updates as often as he could.
"Is there anyway I can help the mother other than calling CPS? She seems lost and like another poster mentioned, I think she wants someone to intervene."
You can call CPS. My opinion is that CPS is not going to do anything about his level of neglect unless you are lucky enough to get in contact with an exceptionally proactive worker.
But what you REALLY need to do is cut ties with this situation. There is a subcriminal level of neglect going on and you don't want to expose your kids to it, and you don't need the stress of it in your lives. Imagine if the issue were not SPD/ASD related, but simply a lot of corporal punishment that you had to witness and/or hear about. That would be a subcriminal level of violence, you wouldn't want your kids exposed to it, and you'd end the relationship with the mom.
I think it all depends on how vested you are in this friendship & in helping her & her daughter.
If you are 'done' with the relationship (and I certainly wouldn't blame you!) then yeah, call CPS... basically, let someone else (professionals) handle it so you don't have to continue feeling some kind of responsibility for this situation.
I really can relate to the mother in this situation (though I would never just drop my kid off & not come back)... so coming from that perspective, I would be heartbroken if you called CPS on me, and I think it would add extra stress to my life. What would be most helpful if it were me, would be a phone call, Hey my DH will watch your DD & mine, let's go get a coffee or something. And then lots of time to chat & try to see if you can pinpoint *her* problem, whether she's depressed or mentally ill or just really stressed. If you can, print out local resources for therapists, programs for SN, checklists for SPD, and things like that for her DD, as well as things for the mom like info on a mother's support group... However all that is a lot to ask of a friend (especially a friend who's already been lied to & taken advantage of), so if you don't have it in you to do that, don't! But that's what I think would help her -- having a break to chat, knowing a friend cared enough to print out all these resources, having someone help come up with a plan of action.....
Again, thanks for the great responses. DH and I decided not to call CPS. If I felt they were going to do something I would have called on Friday but I don't think they will. After talking to the mom at the park, I really just don't want to deal with her. I didn't even feel comfortable leaving DD with her while I went to the bathroom. I took my DD with me. If she's so lax with the care of her own child, I can't imagine how lax she would be with my baby.
Crunch_Mommy, I gave her alot of resources she can use though if she wants. I really hope she does.They are some great places too. Part of me feels like a bad person for not wanting to deal with her but I don't want or need the added stress. I think I've done what I can do and now I guess I have to just hope for the best for her DD and hope her mom gets whatever help she might need to help her take care of the things she needs to take care of for her DD.
Definitely don't feel bad!! You helped her child in a time of need & even gave mom resources... just move on now, no need in getting further sucked into that mess as long as no one is in danger or anything! Hopefully she will follow through with the resources you pointed her toward!
Again, thanks for the great responses. DH and I decided not to call CPS. If I felt they were going to do something I would have called on Friday but I don't think they will. After talking to the mom at the park, I really just don't want to deal with her. I didn't even feel comfortable leaving DD with her while I went to the bathroom. I took my DD with me. If she's so lax with the care of her own child, I can't imagine how lax she would be with my baby.
Crunch_Mommy, I gave her alot of resources she can use though if she wants. I really hope she does.They are some great places too. Part of me feels like a bad person for not wanting to deal with her but I don't want or need the added stress. I think I've done what I can do and now I guess I have to just hope for the best for her DD and hope her mom gets whatever help she might need to help her take care of the things she needs to take care of for her DD.
I totally understand you not wanting to deal with her, and, honestly, I wouldn't either. I'm glad you gave her the info on some resources and you should not feel bad AT ALL.
However, I do feel like you are doing her dd a disservice by not contacting CPS. You did give her resources but you cannot make her follow through, whereas CPS most probably could. I mean, the mom has possible mental illness and is not getting her dd the care she needs, and someone needs to intervene.
I did notice you said that you didn't feel like CPS in your area could really do anything, though, so maybe it's different where I live vs. where you live. (I have had to call on a friend in the past, and that's where I'm coming from).
It's just a tough situation all around.
I can't care for a child without feeling confident the mom will call back if there was an emergency.
By handling this situation in the way that she did, she really messed up any chance of being able to count on me for giving her a break in the future. It's not okay for her to be able to count on me but not me being able to count on her.
Good for you for setting boudaries. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
You're setting a good example for a lot of people who get taken advantage of.
I totally agree with the post that said while it's understandable that you yourself are "done" with this mom (and I don't blame you at all for feeling that way), I also agree you are doing her dd a disservice as you've recognized that that child is not having her needs met.
I really related to your initial concern about the wellbeing, present and future, for that child... have you considered calling CPS and basically sharing your concerns initially without necessarily reporting the mom, just to see what they think and what they might be able to do?
I always worry when people rule out calling CPS in their locality without specific or accurate info about how their CPS operates. For all I know, where you live it might not even get screened in (accepted as a report) if you report it, but that child sounds like she's got a mom who probably really needs some help with her parenting, and a child with specific needs that most likely are going unmet, and my heart just breaks for that child if there is something your local CPS can do but no one's calling them to give them the chance to help this mom.
I'm not a pollyanna, I don't know anything about CPS where you are and how good a response the family and child get often comes down to the caseworker assigned to the case. But a good or even mediocre caseworker can usually help put in at least some needed resources and to not do anything in response to your initial concerns about the child... I just wonder if maybe you could get more info about your local CPS *directly* from CPS maybe you'd be able to make a more informed choice about report/not reporting? Just my .02cents...
I agree w/ nola and LROM -- it may be highly uncomfortable for you, but this little girl could be living in a really bad situation that warrants intervention.
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