why is it my kids never behave but other kids do? - Page 3

[contactmaya]

I havent read all  of the responses-i gleaned a little bit of 'well if mothers like you would actually teach their kids some manners...' kind of attitude, so wasnt inpsired to read further. I could be mistaken, and i want to thank everyone for offering their wisdom and  especially those with experience of consesual living.

My kids probably are a little  more daring than others, because they havent learned fear. This isnt a criticism of other people, or of anyone on this board, so please dont take it as such. On top of that, they probably have personality types that make  disruptive bahviour more likely, but they are great in a playground. Being boys, also makes this more likely. (girls can be like this too, but from what i have observed, its less common)

I also think there is the fact that i dont have an overpowering personality. Some people are just more commanding, and it takes less effort for them to make others do what they want. Those people as parents, will experience less of what i am experiencing...thats just a theory, i dont know.

In some situations, its hugely impractical to 'leave'.  But I  certainly take any child of mine out of the room if they are disruptive. Its not like it just sit there and let them do what they are doing.I also get close to them and explain that behaviour is not ok, and that its important to be considerate of others.

But...that isnt really enough.

At home, my kids are great. We never have bedtime issues, we eat at the table together. They are considerate within the expectations of their age, because i emphasise consideration of others in their upbringing. Compassion and sensitivity rate very highly on my list of values. That is why, i detest engaging power struggles that involve physical force, and bossy or even manipulative behaviour. (That doesnt mean i dont see it as necessary sometimes.)

I also think that some of these 'child friendly' places are not as child friendly  they say. I did go to one place where there was total acceptance of child like behaviour. Toys were strewn at the feet of worshippers, and children played with them in the crowd as people prayed.  There was a general din, but it didnt bother those worshippers. If a child was really over the top-yes, take them out, But guess what, it  didnt happen. Not even my boys. It was nice to let them be themselves in a place of prayer.

Ive talked about this with friends IRL as well. Ive received advice that i should 'discipline' these kids, with a spank on the bottom (which they claimed wasnt hitting).

Ive received other advice, which i found more helpful-to read up on personality differences in children, and to speak in greater detail *before* the event about my expectations. Some people on this board have suggested this too, and i have done it, but maybe i will do it more.

Sigh...i think i may be stuck with this behaviour until they grow out of it, because i do believe its more a personality issue.

Just my thoughts for now....

You have to know that my 5yo is actually a very considerate kid, and ive always considered him to be nicer than his peers. 2yo is a 2yo....

I like my style parenting.

What would naomi aldort say about this do you think, anyone?

[sebandg'smama]

I think there has been some good advice given, and perhaps reading them through thoroughly might be helpful.

I just have some questions, what are you afraid of?  Other people's perception's of your dc's behaviour?  Their safety?  That if they are not listening to you now, they will never listen to you when they are older?  

Perhaps instead of comparing your boys to other children you should just meet their needs...playground than temple.  A mini trampoline (with a handle) +  fast music = great energy release!  My dd needed this (not my ds, go figure!).

Peace,

Melanie

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by sebandg'smama 
Perhaps instead of comparing your boys to other children you should just meet their needs...playground than temple.  A mini trampoline (with a handle) +  fast music = great energy release!  My dd needed this (not my ds, go figure!).

I agree with this. I guess I'm getting more confused with your posts, it sounds like you are pretty happy with the way your kids behave so I'm not sure what you were asking in your OP? I agree that many 'child-friendly' places aren't as child-friendly as I'd like... but I take 'child-friendly' to mean that it's a good place for children to learn how to act in public. So, to be honest, I'd be a bit appalled if I saw toys strewn all over the floor of our church & kids running around and talking. A child-friendly church service for me is one where children are welcome & occasional outbursts are expected, but kids are still expected to behave to the best of their ability & to start learning how to act during worship. Bonus points if there's a short children's program within the service that's more comprehensible to the young ones so they get some religious education...

I am a very quiet personality. I don't yell at DS to get him to behave, and I certainly don't try to instill any fear in him... DH is the same. He doesn't cooperate because he's afraid or because of the consequences we enforce... He cooperates because he knows what is expected of him, and we know when our expectations are unrealistic. When we go to church, for example, we talk to him beforehand about how he's expected to behave -- sitting quietly, praying, staying near us. At the same time, we know when the temptation to run around is too much for him, so we pick him up & distract him (talk about what's going on, point out the statues, etc.) I know when he hasn't slept well or didn't get to nurse beforehand that I may have to be more proactive to help him stay calm. Am I making sense?

I just can't shake the feeling of your posts, on the one hand it sounds like you wanted advice for encouraging positive behavior, but on the other it seems like you are already happy with your kids' behavior. It also sounds like you are judging the 'behaved' children as being fearful or having parents with strong personalities or parents that work out of the home -- which just doesn't hold true for many kids & most of us don't want to hear that our kids are only behaved because we are overpowering or fear-inducing, you know? So I think that's why the general tone of the thread has gone in this direction... I do think there was some good advice in here but maybe you aren't asking for advice???

[contactmaya]

just skimmed...

in this particular situation, i would like to be able to take my kids somewhere that is beneficial for them, without having to feel like im running a marathon and being judged by onlookers despite my best efforts...wondering what is the true cause behind this...the 'public' situation, 'crowd' situation seems to bring out ths behaviour...with rare exceptions, nobody here apparently ever experiences this...it would be nice to hear im not the only one but apparently i am...what  do i want? I want answers that feel true. I havent even read most of the posts yet, so i cant comment in any detail

[contactmaya]

ps.of course i meet their needs, playground, trampoline, of course of course of course.

[contactmaya]

...just read last 2 posts. No i dont judge other kids for being  quiet, im just trying to figure it out.

As for the question-what am i afraid of? thats a good question, and i ask myself often. Im not afraid for long term consequences. I think my kids are in a good place for the most part, though  we have our issues (this one for eg.) I really dont like the feeling of onlookers judging me (maybe thats in my head?), and maybe i should just ignore that. But since i value being considerate of others, well, i value it, and dont want to bother them. Im sure my kids' behaviour isnt so bad, that everyone is extremely bothered, but it draws attention to me and i dont like that....

For the most part, i would just like to understand why it is my kids(and occasionaly others) who behave this way, and not most of the others. Its easy to say that in lies in the method of discipline, but it could well be other factors. I'd like a solution, but maybe there isnt one, other than  not going at all. I have considered getting a babysitter, while i go and pray with the adults.  I give up my adult participation completely as the effective 'baby sitter' in a children's service.

I dont want to do that though, because i want my kids to benefit, and i can wait until they are older to go back to my way of life.

[sebandg'smama]

Sounds like you are blessed with high spirited children!  

I am glad your boys are getting their needs met in your desire to live consensually.  I am just worried that you are not getting your needs met.  It's ok to get a babysitter in order for you to pray with the adults, once in a while at least.  True consensual living has EVERYONE'S needs taken into account.

Peace,

Melanie

[contactmaya]

Thanks Melanie and others.

Sometimes i think my new religion is parenting. Getting my needs met would be seeing my boys thrive in this religious community, knowing they were benefiting from the children's services, learning songs, learning prayers, playing with other kids, making friends, learning self confidence,  being joyful, and me being there to witness it.

Me praying with the adults? I have my whole life for that,  although i miss it.

But...i sometimes consider it, so as to avoid this situation.
Just a couple of things to say after reading the posts. First, there have been some good ideas, thanks for sharing.
2ndly, i dont  necessarily think kids are behaving because they are afraid of their parents, its just an idea, i dont know.
 
3rdly, testosterone factor-im glad to hear from other single moms, ok, so its not the testosterone factor. Yay! It was just an idea. I love being a single mom, and would not use  that as an excuse. Im just putting ideas out there. Btw, my dad was scary, because he was big. Men are really big to little kids. You can be scary without meaning to be.

Lastly, i define consensual living in the parenting context as not forcing children to do something because you are bigger and stronger  but giving them the chance to say what they need. Finding a solution when there is a conflict, not just imposing your will. Not overpowering others, but finding a way to meet all needs, in effect, taking everyone's needs  into account, consulting others on what should be done, finding solutions that meet all needs.  Its perpetually looking for solutions really, rather than laying down hard and fast rules.  
(i suppose thats a rambly definition)

[velochic]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

...just read last 2 posts. No i dont judge other kids for being  quiet, im just trying to figure it out.

As for the question-what am i afraid of? thats a good question, and i ask myself often. Im not afraid for long term consequences. I think my kids are in a good place for the most part, though  we have our issues (this one for eg.) I really dont like the feeling of onlookers judging me (maybe thats in my head?), and maybe i should just ignore that. But since i value being considerate of others, well, i value it, and dont want to bother them. Im sure my kids' behaviour isnt so bad, that everyone is extremely bothered, but it draws attention to me and i dont like that....

For the most part, i would just like to understand why it is my kids(and occasionaly others) who behave this way, and not most of the others. Its easy to say that in lies in the method of discipline, but it could well be other factors. I'd like a solution, but maybe there isnt one, other than  not going at all. I have considered getting a babysitter, while i go and pray with the adults.  I give up my adult participation completely as the effective 'baby sitter' in a children's service.

I dont want to do that though, because i want my kids to benefit, and i can wait until they are older to go back to my way of life.

But I think what is happening in this thread is that people are saying that maybe consensual living is NOT working and that there are many, many, many ways to raise children gently and attached that involves other methods of discipline (and by discipline, I mean TEACHING, not punishment).  I think there is a lot of great advice in this thread, if you'd take the time to read it instead of skim it.  In my first post, I honestly didn't know what to say because I don't have a child like what you're describing yours to be but you seemed derisive about anything but consensual living.  I would never think that "my" way is the best, but it works for us.  We aren't consensual living, but dh and I are both GD parents, I'm a SAHM, we don't spank, yell, belittle, threaten or instill fear.  Our methods have been logical consequences and it worked for us.  That's what you need to find and it might help to go outside of the consensual living box.  If a particular method was not working, I would have gladly entertained other GD forms of parenting.  Perhaps your plan of action at this point is simply being more open-minded that other methods might work and taking the time to read what people have spent time posting to be helpful.

Edited by velochic - 11/18/10 at 12:18pm

[zinemama]

OP, I can completely understand your discomfort with the suspicion that other parents are silently judging you. And I'm sorry to confirm your fears, but yes, they are judging you. I know I judge parents who don't appear to have taught their children appropriate public behavior or who aren't willing to impose consequences when it occurs (and, as others have stated repeatedly, "consequence" does not equal "punitive."). And I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this.

But as you said, you value being considerate to others, as decent people do. So I don't think you should ignore your desire not to have your kids bother other people in public. Instead, use it as the motivation to get some strategies in place with your kids so that they understand the boundaries wrt behavior in public. Start small. Practice at home.

I also think you are complicating this situation unnecessarily by continually speculating that your kids behave this way not because you have no disciplinary strategy in place, but because they are somehow different from other children whose public behavior is more acceptable. From everything you've said about your parenting style, it seems clear that these are kids who push the limits simply because they can. So I urge you not to conclude that there's no solution, but to get a system in place to solve the problem. For their sakes as much as yours (and everyone else's).

[EdnaMarie]

Consequences?

If you can leave, leave.

If you do not want to leave--you feel it's too harsh--then "calming down in the car" is a good one.  I have two girls that are just... well they do seem normal compared to the other kids I know, but from what I read on here, we run in wild circles, LOL!  "You need to respect the rule.  If you do not, we will have to go calm down."  After they are in their seats for several minutes, I tell them that the next time, I will not waste my time in the car, that we need to go home.

My kids KNOW when I can implement consequences, and behave accordingly.  It is amazing that their behavior is the worst in the post office, and library, like if I'm running a quick errand that has to get done.  :(  They know I'm loathe to waste this ten minutes with a calm-down time or leaving and doing it another day, and holy smokes.  It's like... I don't know.

But I can assure you that even with my husband gone most of the time, and that my kids aren't scared of me (though they dislike calming down... they like being on a high), they do obey in kids' events.

Some of the time.  But the other times, you won't see us, because we will be gone.  We just leave.

Except that once-a-week post office trip.  Those are my kids, climbing while I run across the hall, signing a customs form with one hand and grabbing them with the other, muttering under my breath.  Yeah.

[Petie1104]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

I do appreciate the replies, but its sounds like the assumption is that i  just let my kids disrupt everyone. I am a polite person, so  i do not allow this, and i take them out. It is very very very very exhausting for me. I am trying to figure out why other parents just sit there, and so do their kids (most of them), while mine donT. Admittedly, my 5yo is usually ok, not always. He has matured a bit and maturity plays into this.  But he can still act goofy while his peers wouldnt dare.

As for keeping my 2yo near me, you havent seen my 2yo. He is not your average clingy toddler. He is fearless, and runs off. It wouldnt matter how many times i grabbed him and kept him by my side. He would go off again. As long as i think he's safe, i cut him some slack. When it came to the playground, he repeatedly snuck back out again.  He wouldnt take no for an answer. My 5yo was less interested, being 5, and found  a pillar he could run around (that he wasnt supposed to) He found another 5yo friend to do the same. I let him because i couldnt see the harm, and was busy with  2yo.

Other kids tho, just wouldnt do it. I watch in amazement as 2 year olds stick by their caregiver. Especially girls. Mine dont do that.

OK, reading your posts I have a few suggestions...

Our temple had alot of problems during tot shabbat of children that would run up and down the steps, climb on furniture, scream through the synagogue, so the Rabbi actually had one day when she sat them all down and they all agreed upon rules of behavior.  The older ones also agreed to help the littles remember those rules.  So if a 2 yr. old starts running, the older child is to go to them and say, "remember we are supposed to walk in God's house".  For some reason this method worked so much better than all of us adults trying to wrangle in our children.  They were able to take some responsibility for each other and they took it seriously.  Now I don't know how big your synagogue is, but is it something you could talk to the other parent's about trying to do.  It seemed to me and the kids that this was respectful to everyone involved.  The children created the rules and helped to enforce the rules. 

Secondly, logical consequence for misbehavior in a playground is that we leave.  The two year old WILL get it, though it may take a few times.  The point is, if you went with your husband somewhere and he decided to test the limits of his car and drove 100 mph down the road wouldn't you refuse to sit in the car with him even one more minute?  Wouldn't he have to earn your trust back?  Well, I feel the same way when my kids put themselves in danger time and again, so I make it clearn that I will NOT sit and watch them do that and we WILL be going home and they can try to earn my trust back the next time.  It is a logical consequence and one that makes a point fairly quickly. 

[EdnaMarie]

You talk about meeting everyone's needs.  Have you considered the possibility that sometimes, kids need to know that someone is stronger than them, that there are firm limits, and that they will hit those limits?  I appreciate kids' need to run around, but if they need to run around without limits, then perhaps those meetings aren't for them.  What I suspect is that, like the other kids, they do want to know where the limits are, and that they are trying to get this need met by pushing the boundaries.  And that crying and acting out are not necessarily them protesting violations of their rights, but part of the way they process what is going on, the new limits being imposed?

I know how it feels to try and be attached and have to carry a screaming kid to the car.  Oh, do I ever know.  It's embarrassing, it's not what I envisioned, it's undignified.  But sometimes, there is really no other way that is respectful of the other people in the room, and ultimately, it has helped my daughter understand what's acceptable and what's not, and that has made her much happier in the long-run.

Lastly, i define consensual living in the parenting context as not forcing children to do something because you are bigger and stronger  but giving them the chance to say what they need. Finding a solution when there is a conflict, not just imposing your will. Not overpowering others, but finding a way to meet all needs, in effect, taking everyone's needs  into account, consulting others on what should be done, finding solutions that meet all needs.  Its perpetually looking for solutions really, rather than laying down hard and fast rules. 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

jwondering what is the true cause behind this...the 'public' situation, 'crowd' situation seems to bring out ths behaviour...with rare exceptions, nobody here apparently ever experiences this...it would be nice to hear im not the only one but apparently i am...

What makes you think you're the only one? I'm not religious and don't attend any place of worship, but I would definitely be taking my kids out if I did so. I've attended a few "iffy" events with kids in the past (weddings, funerals, etc.) and have had to leave a few times, because of unacceptable behaviour. I had to leave a movie theater with ds1 and my nephew once (it was a first theater movie for both of them, and it didn't go as well as my sister and I had hoped it would), because they were acting up. I think lots of kids will act up in public and/or crowds (for many reasons). At some point, it's time to leave. In a previous post, you specifically said that your two year old "repeatedly" snuck out (to the playground, I think?). There you go. If he keeps doing it, you can either keep chasing him (which is what it sounds like you're doing), or you can leave. It's up to you...but if you don't leave, and keep chasing him, then you are going to attract some attention (not even necessarily judgment...but you can't keep getting up and leaving and coming back without people noticing, yk?), and they aren't going to get the idea that what they're doing isn't acceptable.

[CatsCradle]

  For the most part, i would just like to understand why it is my kids(and occasionaly others) who behave this way, and not most of the others. Its easy to say that in lies in the method of discipline, but it could well be other factors. I'd like a solution, but maybe there isnt one, other than  not going at all. I have considered getting a babysitter, while i go and pray with the adults.  I give up my adult participation completely as the effective 'baby sitter' in a children's service.

 If it gives you comfort, we have all been there (see bolded part).  Sometimes a parent can feel extremely alone in a situation where his/her child is acting out and everyone else's kids seem to be doing fine.  I have had a tough time with this myself.  Not in a religious setting, but in other public situations (think meltdowns and/or high activity on the bus or subway - where everyone is in a closed space and there is no escape between long stops or stations).  The best way that I have handled these public transit situations is to literally get off at the next stop.  If DD can't settle down when asked to, we simply get off.  This might sound harsh to some people but it is a consequence of her behavior.  Interestingly it has worked, because she has come to realize that she won't get from point A to point B as efficiently.  I should also add that there have been times when DH and I forgo certain activites simply because we don't believe DD is ready for them.  At two I would have expected to have trouble with DD in public settings.  At four, my expectations for behaving appropriately are much higher.  I believe that removing DD from a situation where she is infringing on others' rights is entirely appropriate. 

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

Thanks Melanie and others.

 
3rdly, testosterone factor-im glad to hear from other single moms, ok, so its not the testosterone factor. Yay! It was just an idea. I love being a single mom, and would not use  that as an excuse. Im just putting ideas out there. Btw, my dad was scary, because he was big. Men are really big to little kids. You can be scary without meaning to be.

 

My Dad was scary, too. Not because he was big, but because he was a jerk.

Dh isn't huge, but to a kid he might be. Ds's uncle is 6'4". In this house, a big man is pretty much akin to a giant teddy bear, as far as I can tell. So, I wouldn't go with that theory.

You've gotten some great advice, so I don't have too much to add. I do agree that boundaries are not punitive. Good luck! 
 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama 
Dh isn't huge, but to a kid he might be. Ds's uncle is 6'4". In this house, a big man is pretty much akin to a giant teddy bear, as far as I can tell. So, I wouldn't go with that theory.

Agreed. My dad is "only" 6', but he's one of the strongest men I've ever known (physically, I mean) and people can sense it. My friends in high school were kind of intimidated him and I heard more than once that my dad "another Arnold Schwarzenegger". However, as kids, none of us - me, my siblings, cousins, friends, etc. - were ever even remotely afraid of him. He was a total teddy bear, and wouldn't hurt a fly. Mom was occasionally a little intimidating, but not dad.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

I havent read all  of the responses-i gleaned a little bit of 'well if mothers like you would actually teach their kids some manners...' kind of attitude, so wasnt inpsired to read further. I could be mistaken, and i want to thank everyone for offering their wisdom and  especially those with experience of consesual living.

My kids probably are a little  more daring than others, because they havent learned fear. This isnt a criticism of other people, or of anyone on this board, so please dont take it as such. On top of that, they probably have personality types that make  disruptive bahviour more likely, but they are great in a playground. Being boys, also makes this more likely. (girls can be like this too, but from what i have observed, its less common)

I also think there is the fact that i dont have an overpowering personality. Some people are just more commanding, and it takes less effort for them to make others do what they want. Those people as parents, will experience less of what i am experiencing...thats just a theory, i dont know.

In some situations, its hugely impractical to 'leave'.  But I  certainly take any child of mine out of the room if they are disruptive. Its not like it just sit there and let them do what they are doing.I also get close to them and explain that behaviour is not ok, and that its important to be considerate of others.

But...that isnt really enough.

At home, my kids are great. We never have bedtime issues, we eat at the table together. They are considerate within the expectations of their age, because i emphasise consideration of others in their upbringing. Compassion and sensitivity rate very highly on my list of values. That is why, i detest engaging power struggles that involve physical force, and bossy or even manipulative behaviour. (That doesnt mean i dont see it as necessary sometimes.)

I also think that some of these 'child friendly' places are not as child friendly  they say. I did go to one place where there was total acceptance of child like behaviour. Toys were strewn at the feet of worshippers, and children played with them in the crowd as people prayed.  There was a general din, but it didnt bother those worshippers. If a child was really over the top-yes, take them out, But guess what, it  didnt happen. Not even my boys. It was nice to let them be themselves in a place of prayer.

Ive talked about this with friends IRL as well. Ive received advice that i should 'discipline' these kids, with a spank on the bottom (which they claimed wasnt hitting).

Ive received other advice, which i found more helpful-to read up on personality differences in children, and to speak in greater detail *before* the event about my expectations. Some people on this board have suggested this too, and i have done it, but maybe i will do it more.

Sigh...i think i may be stuck with this behaviour until they grow out of it, because i do believe its more a personality issue.

Just my thoughts for now....

You have to know that my 5yo is actually a very considerate kid, and ive always considered him to be nicer than his peers. 2yo is a 2yo....

I like my style parenting.

What would naomi aldort say about this do you think, anyone?

If by fear you mean fear of a parents wrath, then my kids haven't learned that at all. My kids don't fear me, they do respect me and know that when I say something and they can see what the good reason is they are allowed to ask and allowed to challenge.
 

You say your kids are much better behaved at home. That tells me that in the home they understand and have learned how to behave properly, not because of fear but because they have been practicing everyday for the past 5 and 2 years. Were as out and about, it's probably not everyday, and not for the same periods of time as at home. It's not about commanding, or fear, or control. It's about learning, respect and acknowledging that changes aren't going to happen over night. If you have to draw an imaginary circle on the ground and say "if you use your indoor voices and don't hurt anyone you can play how you want in this circle" and then let them run the edge of the circle fine. They do deserve the freedom to be themselves, but they also deserve to be taught that there are boundaries in this world that you need to stay inside of. In the end how you go about it is your business, but I do believe you will be doing them a disservice by deciding that it's just who they are. "Boys will be boys" or "kids will be kids" doesn't teach them to be responsible for their own actions.

[TinkerBelle]

All of this talk about needs. Well, what about the needs and rights of other people? You know, the ones that your children are disturbing? It is fine to raise your children however you see fit, but there is NOTHING wrong with setting limits and boundaries, and teaching your children how you expect them to behave.

I also take issue with the tone of your posts. You assume a lot about other people, obviously. I have a very good friend who has never yelled at her kids or spanked them. EVER. And they are two of the most polite children you will ever meet. They are both teens now and still very polite. They do NOT fear their parents. But, my friend never just let her kids run wild either. She taught them how to act, and was was expected, and there were consequences to any misbehavior. And she never let her kids disturb other people, either.

Before anyone says it, I am NOT saying that kids should "be seen and not heard". But there is a lot of gray area between letting them run wild and "seen and not heard".

I guess that I do not understand raising your kids without boundaries and limits. Because once they are grown, there WILL be laws, and rules at their jobs, and other places that they will have to follow or face prosecution or getting fired. If we do not prepare our kids for the real world, then what will happen to them?

I guess you really didn't want advice. Perhaps you just wanted validation. I cannot give you that. But I wish you a lot of luck with your kids.

[LynnS6]

My basic question to you would be: How are you teaching your children what acceptable behavior is in public? It sounds like you remove them when it gets to be too much and you do talk to them about being considerate. Do you talk to them in very specific terms? I stop my children from making a lot of noise in church or from running around not because it's 'bad' behavior, but because they are preventing other people from paying attention when they want to. Your 2 year old is too young to understand that, realistically, but your 5 year old should be able to begin to make the connection between: "If I'm speaking loudly, other people can't hear." So, how can you help them learn these fundamental things? What will help him understand? It takes lots of practice to remember that if you talk loudly, others can't hear, or if that you are running pell-mell in a place not meant for running, you might run someone over.

Would it help your parenitng journey if you reframed discipline as 'teaching'? I understand that you detest physical force, bossiness or manipulation. But there are many ways to teach that don't involve any of those things. That teaching is still discipline. For our family, it's going to look different than it will for yours -- partly because of my parenting beliefs, but partly because my kids just aren't that high energy. Dd is highly emotional, but physically not that active. Ds is just a mellow guy who 'freezes' when he's nervous, so in public, he stuck to us like glue at this age. So my parenting challenges involve helping dd learn emotional regulation and teaching ds that it's safe to stretch his comfort zone.

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

just skimmed...

in this particular situation, i would like to be able to take my kids somewhere that is beneficial for them, without having to feel like im running a marathon and being judged by onlookers despite my best efforts...wondering what is the true cause behind this...the 'public' situation, 'crowd' situation seems to bring out ths behaviour...with rare exceptions, nobody here apparently ever experiences this...it would be nice to hear im not the only one but apparently i am...what  do i want? I want answers that feel true. I havent even read most of the posts yet, so i cant comment in any detail

Your kids are still very young. Sometimes it's just hard to take a 2 and 5 year old anywhere, especially if they're high energy. If you still have this problem in 2-3 years, then I'd say you need to look at how you parent and whether you really are teaching your kids public behavior expectations.

Some kids get energized by the extra stimulation of being out in public. Sometimes it's because they're extroverts and it gives them energy. Sometimes because it's sensory overload and they're not very good at regulating that. One thing that you might try (sorry, maybe it's been suggested - I did skim) is to give them a lot of large motor physical exercise to get the energy out before going someplace that might expect somewhat more mellow behavior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by contactmaya 

Lastly, i define consensual living in the parenting context as not forcing children to do something because you are bigger and stronger  but giving them the chance to say what they need. Finding a solution when there is a conflict, not just imposing your will. Not overpowering others, but finding a way to meet all needs, in effect, taking everyone's needs  into account, consulting others on what should be done, finding solutions that meet all needs.  Its perpetually looking for solutions really, rather than laying down hard and fast rules.  
(i suppose thats a rambly definition)

Question: Are you taking your own needs into account? It sounds to me like you're doing a lot to make sure that you take your sons' needs into account. Are you taking your own into account too? [This is where consentual living with young children breaks down for me: 2 year olds are not developmentally able to take my needs into account or a sibling's. So, how do you live consentually with a 2 year old?] But despite my misgivings about CL, what I don't hear in you're meeting your own needs. The answer might as simple as: Right now, their need to run around is stronger than my desire to take them places, so we'll skip that and because I'm the mom, I'm OK with it. But I think it should be a conscious choice, and that you should beware of being a martyr and building up resentment.