therapist says "gifted" psychiatrist says "asperger's" - Page 2

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Originally Posted by LauraLoo 

Another very good book and along the same lines as the "Misdiagnosed" book is "The Mislabeled Child," by the Eides.  I can't believe I didn't think of it before.  Maybe your library has this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Mislabeled-Child-Solutions-Childrens-Challenges/dp/1401308996/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

This book has a chapter completely dedicated to giftedness called, "The Midas Touch:  How Giftedness Can Cause Learning Challenges in Children."  Also lots of good info on autism and ADHD.  

Heh.  I recommended it upthread.  I think if either of us is posting on a thread that even smells a little 2E, the Eides will be mentioned, and if both of us are, it's guar-an-teed.  Honestly, I think they should kick us some of their royalties with all the recommendations.  

      I think a kick back would be great!   

[dmarieb]

EarthRootsStarSoul - I find your story amazing!  Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with me!

So I went to my bookshelf to start another book on gifted parenting and found a book that I previously bought by Webb called A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children.  There is an entire chapter on twice-exceptional kids.  And after reading the part on Asperger's, I am certain my DD does NOT fall under that category.  I believe the psychiatrist has stated his theory based on seeing her zoned into her video games at each appt.  Having taken until age 7 to diagnose her with ADHD, I always threw a handheld game system at her when in public to keep her low-key.  So it's my go-to trick.  Definitely a habit we are starting to break.  But her video games are an addiction to her.  So I think he sees her in that zoned state, completely tuned out to the world, and began leaning toward that theory.  Not to mention, when I haven't brought it to an appt, she purposefully acts annoying so that I will give her my phone to play with and keep her quiet.  I know she is acting weird.  He doesn't know she's just acting.  She is sharp to know how to get what she wants.  For example, last year, her teacher kept telling me that my DD had a stomach problem.  She was always going to the bathroom at school because her stomach hurt.  Sure enough, it started at home during mealtimes.  Since we have one child with food allergies, I went so far to get her tested for allergies.  Then one day, her counselor suggested that she had found a socially acceptable way to keep her body moving when she felt her body needing to fidget - bathroom breaks.  Sure enough, I talked to her about it and she fessed up!  And the all of the bathroom breaks stopped.  Smart little cookie!

So based on my thoughts, her counselor's thoughts and the limited info the psychiatrist has had, I do believe my daughter does NOT have Asperger's.  But again, my unprofessional opinion.

[Bird Girl]

Dmarieb, It's my understanding that ADHD can definitely mimic Asperger's syndrome, and I would say that if you are seeing improvements around social cues since starting the medication, then you probably have overlapping symptoms, not co-morbid conditions. However, not a doctor, don't play one on TV, so qualifications and all that.

My own 8.5 year old is obsessed with Percy Jackson (there's another series by the same author that starts with Lost Hero, if you're looking for fresh reading material) and also loves her American Girl dolls. Frankly, our girls would probably get along very well!

EarthRootsStarSoul, it sounds like you have the opposite of my brain. (I bombed O-chem in college--who could tell what all those little molecules were doing?) I'm delighted to hear that you're tearing up your course work and have found your talents.

[A&A]

Aspergers is no longer a separate diagnosis; it is now known as high-functioning autism, just FYI.   Is your dd getting enough sleep?  (My 3rd grader still needs at least 10 hours per night).  Lack of sleep or too many additives in the diet can look like ADD/ADHD.  (Check out the Feingold diet.)  Also, your dd could be incredibly bored, which would result in not doing all of the work (because it's boring!)  This could also cause social issues---it's much easier to make friends with people who are your mental age rather than merely your chronological age. 

www.nationdeceived.org

[RiverTam]

Originally Posted by A&A 

Aspergers is no longer a separate diagnosis; it is now known as high-functioning autism, just FYI.   Is your dd getting enough sleep?  (My 3rd grader still needs at least 10 hours per night).  Lack of sleep or too many additives in the diet can look like ADD/ADHD.  (Check out the Feingold diet.)  Also, your dd could be incredibly bored, which would result in not doing all of the work (because it's boring!)  This could also cause social issues---it's much easier to make friends with people who are your mental age rather than merely your chronological age. 

www.nationdeceived.org

That's sort of true and sort of not true. The current version of the DSM-IV which is the diagnostic manual for psychological disorders lists Asperger's, autism, and PDD-NOS as separate disorders. It is the one that is currently being used. The upcoming version of the DSM-V will be published in May 2013 (if it stays on schedule). The committee working on developmental disorders has recommended that autism, PDD-NOS and asperger's be folded into one diagnostic category: autism spectrum disorder. They accepted written comments on the new criteria in the spring. They are now field testing the criteria. If they are functional and useful, they will be used. If not, they will be revised. "High functioning autism" can be a very useful description, but it's not a DX in either the DSM-IV or the DSM-V.

I'm not a fan of the term "high functioning autism" for Aspies because it masks the fact that the IQ profiles of kids with Asperger's (usually) have high verbal ability and lower visual spatial skills, while kids with autism (usually) have a better visual spatial/performance IQ and lower verbal skills.  If anything could be referred to as "high functioning autism," I would apply it to kids with pragmatic language disorder, because they're verbal, but the social aspects of their verbal skills is impaired and they tend to have better visual spatial skills.

Its all a  moot point when the new manual comes out in 2013, but unless a psychiatrist is in the field trials, they're still using the DSM-IV codes. 

[dmarieb]

kids with Asperger's (usually) have high verbal ability and lower visual spatial skills, while kids with autism (usually) have a better visual spatial/performance IQ and lower verbal skills.

I find this interesting because my DD has AMAZING visual spatial skills.  So would I be correct in assuming then that she could not have Asperger's?  I know, I know, you can't diagnose.  But after all I'm reading, she really does seem to fall under gifted and not Asperger's.  But for some reason, I seem to NEED someone else to tell me that.  I can't trust my own call here.  Why is that?  This current book by Webb that I am reading talks about visual spatial learning struggling in a traditional classroom setting.  I totally see this with my daughter!  Not to mention, when she was entering kindergarten, I told my DH and my Mom that I thought she should be in Montessori because I felt that would be better for her learning style. 

[Roar]

Originally Posted by dmarieb 

kids with Asperger's (usually) have high verbal ability and lower visual spatial skills, while kids with autism (usually) have a better visual spatial/performance IQ and lower verbal skills.

I find this interesting because my DD has AMAZING visual spatial skills.  So would I be correct in assuming then that she could not have Asperger's?

No that would not be a correct assumption at all. There are kids with Asperger's who have great visual-spatial gifts. Also, if you are dealing with a gifted kid even their less strong areas may still be in the gifted range.
 

[RiverTam]

A significant delay in language rules out Asperger's, but the reverse isn't true. For kids with Asperger's, visual IQ is *usually* better than performance IQ, but the reverse can happen.

You might want to look at some of the information on the Broad Autism Phenotype, too. There are a lot of gifted people with autism-like traits who don't have autism or Asperger's. 

More here: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201006/006-not-quite-autism-the-borderland-asd

We went round and round with DX for my DS1 for about a year. My son has mixed expressive receptive language disorder with semantic-pragmatic deficits. He fits pretty well in the broad autism phenotype, but doesn't have enough to be DX'd with an ASD. I've worried a lot about the "But what if it's an ASD?" issue. I finally gave up.

Here's our bottom line: DS is getting the services and therapy that our team has identified as needed. There are people like him in my mom's family for at least 4 generations. They all grew up to functioning adults with perfectly good jobs and families without any special services.   DS1 is getting speech therapy with a particular focus on semantic-pragmatic issues and some social skill lessons,  so we anticipate he'll do as well as his undiagnosed, untreated relatives.