Are homeschooled kids really bullied any less than kids that go to school? - Page 5

[Lillian J]

I'm thinking maybe this is the way the new format is purposely set up? Could that be? I did get a response or two under the quote at some point, I think - but that may have been by selecting and posting a quote instead of hitting the Quote button instead of the Reply button. 

 Lillian
 

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

(Interesting - I've always been able to get my responses under the quotes, but this time I couldn't. I think when I deleted my embedded quote, I also deleted a return that kept the space udnerneath open. I have no idea if that made sense, but it's something I used to run into a lot when doing word processing.)

[Lillian J]

Yes - same here in regard to the double-edged sword. Some of the huge ones have turned my life to different directions for the better once the dust settled, and I'm very thankful for those. I think those are the kinds of things that are best dealt with in adulthood, though, when we've already developed emotional/intellectual/spiritual tools to deal with them - and I think that's one of the big flaws in the "bullying is good for kids" theories.  - Lillian

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Yeah - we're using "dysfunction" differently. I get what you mean now, and mostly agree. I will say that there have been types of pain in my life that have been double-edged - leaving scars and dysfunction, but also spurring personal growth. As far as I can tell (and it's admittedly hard to be completely sure!), the bullying I received in school didn't do that. I only hindered me, emotionally and psychologically, without any of the compensatory growth. Of course, I'm projecting that onto other people and have no idea if it's the norm or not.

[Arduinna]

Yes I do think that HS'd kids have it easier regarding bullying because they are not forced to share space with bullies unlike in institutional school.

[heatherdeg]

I'm late to this discussion, too.

PART of why we homeschool DID have to do with social skills and self-esteem--including bullying.

Someone said to "get involved" in the school to make it stop, but when you're fighting the tide--that doesn't help.  If you're surrounded by other parents with the same mindset as DandelionKid--that it's a necessary part of the process and that this is why they're IN school: to learn how to handle and navigate these situations... and when some of the people of that mindset are the teachers and administrators, then really--what do you do?  And that's been my experience more often than not.

My son had a spectrum diagnosis and when it was lifted, he was flagged for re-evaluation for Asperger's when he turns 8yo (which is when they're supposed to dx--not earlier.  I know some Drs. do).  He didn't (and still has a hard time) picking up social signals that would alert most kids to back off.  As a result he's prone to being manipulated and bullied.

I am no more of the mindset that he needs to experience this to learn than I am in agreement with cry-it-out to learn self-soothing/sleeping skills or spanking for discipline.

He is still "prey" to the trends of the time with kids his age.  Despite the lack of TV, he knows about (and has) Pokeman, Bakugan, etc. because that's what his friends have.  Even among homeschoolers, values differ wildly.  But he is not forced to focus his attention on managing around difficult situations at the expense of his academics and building the social skills that people love to think you get out of a brick-and-mortar school because he is too afraid to participate in them based on the reactions of a bully (in any form that you choose to define it--and that includes teachers sometimes... sad, but true--I've worked with them, witnessed them and reported them).

We pulled my son out of the classroom for his Pre-K year (he was mild special needs and had been in a classroom/daycare environment since he was young--full-time the year before Pre-K).  He had gone to three different types of schools--all private.  One was Montessori.  I think the worst of the problems were sometimes notsomuch the other kids, but once it was the situation and the way the teacher was perceiving the issues and handling them (with the best intentions) vs. how it was affecting my son (which she didn't realize because she misconstrued his reactions, etc.).

As a homeschooling family, my son is not sheltered.  He is supervised.  By me.  That means that I understand when he's in trouble because I know him better than his teacher (who may know them well by the end of the year--MAYBE--but that leaves a long span of time without that "knowing").  And I can pretty well guarantee you that I can supervise him far better than people whose time and attention is split among 12-30 other children (more if they're at recess).  That means that when the kid on the playground (during afterschool hours--when there are also ps kids) goes to punch him because he's not really "getting" that the kid doesn't like him, yeah--I can step in (because I also don't believe he's going to learn anything through violence).  That means that when he's really suffering from how he's been treated, I can help him replay the situation with accuracy because I witnessed it--where his teacher may have missed the whole thing and my son may have (or likely) missed cues/actions or misunderstood things and I wouldn't get the complete story if I'd not been there.  That also means that I can help him process his feelings and walk through the "what ifs" for next time so that he has better odds of it not happening again.

No question, we have our share of troubles.  In July we moved to a block where there are seriously no less than 13 kids that all play together.  THIRTEEN.  And we have some serious issues with 2 of them.  One of which includes physical aggression.  They are all public schooled.  So really, there's not much in avoiding it.  And unlike most (but not all) homeschool events/activities, I'm not always witnessing it.  But he's turning 7yo now and I've had 2-1/2 years to mold him and direct him--so it's better.

[littlemizflava]

i have been trying to raise my 2 to know that when children are in school it is a battle all the time. to have the right shoes, clothes, toys & everything. when my bestfriends kids say something. my dd just let it go or says something smart back.

its kinda funny my dd 8 and ds 4 have only been "bullied" when out in the stores. when schooled kids are sticking their tounge out, making faces, or saying mean things. we cant figue it out at all. trust me the parents see and do a thing. i feel wrong about parenting other kids for such silliness.

the worst thing that has ever happened. my dd actually got yelled at by a mom for sticking her tounge out. it was done to my ds they were making faces at eachother but because her dd said she did it to her. the mom thought it was her place to parent my child and yell at out in the middle of the store. this actually gave her nightmares for over a week.

[oceanbaby]

This has not been our experience with school, at all.  I have other complaints about school, but this isn't one of them.
 

Originally Posted by littlemizflava 

i have been trying to raise my 2 to know that when children are in school it is a battle all the time. to have the right shoes, clothes, toys & everything.  

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby 

This has not been our experience with school, at all.  I have other complaints about school, but this isn't one of them.
 

Originally Posted by littlemizflava 

i have been trying to raise my 2 to know that when children are in school it is a battle all the time. to have the right shoes, clothes, toys & everything.  

We're actually going through something similar with ds1 right now. It took until his grad year for it to set in, but it definitely has. There's no guarantee, though. I never cared what the other kids had, and my sister always did. I think it's very individual.

[OliveJewel]

I worry more about future bad teachers (not a prob for homeschoolers, but that's a different thread!) than bully kids.  Unless there is a culture of bullying at a school, it doesn't seem like something that would be a chronic problem.  Perhaps I was lucky that I was never chronically bullied and DS, only in Kindergarten, hasn't experienced it.  I do feel like I call him out daily on what I call "bully behavior" toward his 2yo brother, so we talk about what it means to be a bully.  Sometimes he tells me that I am being a bully toward him, and I have been able to see his point about it!  I guess we talk about bully behavior on a sliding scale.  My husband calls it "being a punk".  If a kid were to say mean things to him, I think it would be a great opportunity to help him realize how much it really hurts to say those kinds of things.  Now that I think about it, BECAUSE my kid seems to have such a natural instinct to tease, it is a lot easier to regularly talk about bullying.  (Teasing does run in my family, and my dad was kind of a bully toward my brother, who bullied me, and got bullied himself in school.  I can remember teasing younger kids and animals, and I feel lucky to have learned better.  I think that since I had to work to overcome my tendency to tease, it bothers me *that much more* when I see my son do it.  Which is the same pattern my dad had toward my older brother: intolerant of his teasing me, so he bullied my brother about it.  Lovely cycle!  So now when DS1 teases DS2 I speak directly to DS2 about how I would feel the same way if someone did that to me, it would hurt me too, and usually that makes DS1 immediately start discussing his reasons for why he was teasing, which is better than actual teasing, but I definitely digress...)

There was a kid in middle school that taunted me because I volunteered to help with the Special Education class.  I always ignored him, even though I felt weird when he was yelling at me from a car as I rode my bike home, or something like that.  Would you believe that years later, when I worked at the grocery store as a checker, this man that I didn't recognize apologized to me for being that taunter?  I wish I could have been stronger at the time and looked him in the eyes, but I was so taken by surprise that I just kind of mumbled something and kept on checking him out, not wanting to make a big deal about it. 

I know that it would be extremely hard to empathize with someone who makes your kids feel bad, but a kid who is a constant bullier is probably getting some pretty negative treatment themselves from a parent or guardian.  And if they ever realize what it is that they are doing, I can imagine that the guilt would be pretty bad for having tormented others for all those years.  Best thing is to ignore, stay away, and only play with kids who don't bully.  I don't think that engaging in conversation with a true bully would be productive, unless it's short, direct comments to express extreme dislike of the bully's behavior.  And I think it's good to encourage kids who see bullying to stand up for the kid who is being bullied, if they feel strong enough, because peer support extinguishes bully behavior better than adult intervention.  Just my cents!

[littlemizflava]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby 

This has not been our experience with school, at all.  I have other complaints about school, but this isn't one of them.
 

Originally Posted by littlemizflava 

i have been trying to raise my 2 to know that when children are in school it is a battle all the time. to have the right shoes, clothes, toys & everything.  

i know not all kids that go to school are like this. i know that the kids we have had run in's with are in school because it has come up. the parents say their child is picking on my 2 due to them being "homeschooled" and mine are anti-social and are bullies. which is totally wrong all the time something has happened my 2 and me are just standing there (in line, looking at something). i have only had run in's with a few kids. i find it sad parents defending their child when they are being bad.

[hello.kiddo]

Late in on the discussion but I've loved reading the responses!

When I was in public school, I was bullied by fellow students but the biggest bullies I had were teachers! My first grade teacher, Mrs. Montoya, was horrible. She would humiliate me in front of the other students, treat me differently than she treated the girls who were popular, etc. It was horrible and I will never forget. I was freaking 6 years old!! Who does that?! Another was my science teacher from 7th grade. He would make me feel bad for always raising my hand when I knew an answer ("We all know you know the answer, Ashley! Put your hand down.") and would all in all pick on me.

I personally don't see any need in purposefully exposing my child to such negativity and nastiness. The social construct of public schools is so artificial and on par with Lord of the Flies. Not for us.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by hello.kiddo 

When I was in public school, I was bullied by fellow students but the biggest bullies I had were teachers!

Yes, I remember several teachers being mean to me....mostly in elementary school. I think there was a racist element to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

As a homeschooling family, my son is not sheltered.  He is supervised.  By me.  That means that I understand when he's in trouble because I know him better than his teacher (who may know them well by the end of the year--MAYBE--but that leaves a long span of time without that "knowing").  And I can pretty well guarantee you that I can supervise him far better than people whose time and attention is split among 12-30 other children (more if they're at recess). 

This. ^

Originally Posted by oceanbaby 

The problem with hs'ing social groups is that there are no rules, really.  Every family has their own rules, their own methods of discipline, and their own version of what is a problem.  As a parent who pretty much is always paying attention to my kids and has very little tolerance for meanness, from any child, even my own, this was a big problem for us, and even before my son asked to start school we were starting to avoid most of our local homeschool social gatherings.

I have found this to also be true, and it is one of the potential "downsides" to homeschooling. We've been lucky enough to run into only a couple of problematic homeschooled kids....but yeah, they did put a damper on our social time, because my kids would want to avoid activities that those children would be attending. Both of those kids were pulled out of public school due to behavioral issues, and later went back to public school (probably because their parents couldn't deal with them at home), so their presence wasn't permanent among our social circles.

That's another thing to remember....there are plenty of homeschooled kids who weren't homeschooled from the beginning, as a lifestyle choice. A lot of them are homeschooled as a last resort because nothing else is working for them. Their family dynamics will be different, obviously.

 

[octobermom]

 My child is "bullied" jsut as much if not more at home by neighborhood kids than she was at her school. Shes never experienced more than common childhood minor occassional teasing though never anything big.

Deanna

[happysmileylady]

 

I personally don't see any need in purposefully exposing my child to such negativity and nastiness. The social construct of public schools is so artificial and on par with Lord of the Flies. Not for us.

That's fine if it's not for you, but Lord of the Flies?  Really?   I have had a LOT of experience with public schools, as a student, a student teacher (multiple times and schools) a teacher, and a parent of a student, multiple schools, who was bullied.  Public schools have a lot of problems, smoe of which are the reasons I no longer teach.  Politics are a big problem.  But Lord of the Flies the vast majority are not.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by happysmileylady 

 

I personally don't see any need in purposefully exposing my child to such negativity and nastiness. The social construct of public schools is so artificial and on par with Lord of the Flies. Not for us.

That's fine if it's not for you, but Lord of the Flies?  Really?   I have had a LOT of experience with public schools, as a student, a student teacher (multiple times and schools) a teacher, and a parent of a student, multiple schools, who was bullied.  Public schools have a lot of problems, smoe of which are the reasons I no longer teach.  Politics are a big problem.  But Lord of the Flies the vast majority are not.

I always found schools a little Lord of the Flies-ish.

The issues are worse (IMHO) on the playground and bus - where the ratio of adults to kids is often very low.

I know this is not the experience of everyone, but it was mine.

I do think perception and expectation play a big part in interpretation of events.  I also know adults interpret events differently than kids - what you may see as acceptable they might not, and vice versa.  I think it can be very hard to know how much bullying etc goes on - and we interpret events through our own lens.  I also think adults are frequently in denial about bullying, or alternately, they jump to conclusions.

[Dar]

Just a moderator note here - from here on out, please keep this discussion to the experiences with bullying you've had (or not had) while homeschooling. Discussions about what happens in schools are outside the purview of this forum (they belong in Learning at School). Schools vary widely, and while I don't discount anyone's experiences and bullying obviously does happen both inside and outside of schools, I think it's important to note that many, many children attending schools have minimal or no problems with bullying.