Possibly Moving to Paris...Vax Questions Please.

[BabyJay'sMom]

We will possibly moving to Paris in the summer (hooray!) with our then 51/2 DS and 31/2 DD.  DS has only had his 2mo vax's, and DD is totally unvaxed.  We currently have a religious exemption for VA, as both go to a co-op preschool that requires vax status documentation.  DS will likely be attending K in Paris, and my understanding is that he MUST have certain vax's to attend school, however I'm unclear on exactly what.  The WHO site gives the regular childhood recommendations which look like they GREATLY outnumber the school requirements.  

This is what I've gleaned so far. 

A BCG Skin Test  (Would this be a TB Test here in the US?)

A Completed DT Series (Looks like 4 doses?)

A completed Polio Series (Looks like 4 doses?)

Two does of MMR

Is that it?  If so, I will want to start vaxing DS soon so I can space the doses/vax's as far apart as neccessary.  Though it looks like at this point he might not be caught up by the time we leave anyway.  Ug.  This is by far the most stressful part of anticipating this move.  Any help/guidance/suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks in advance!

[RomanGoddess]

BCG (this is the TB vaccine - NOT the skin test) is no longer required except in "at risk" areas.

Three vaccines are required - diptheria, tetanus and polio.

Problem is that in France, the vaccines only come in doses of 4 in one - diptheria, tetanus, polio and pertussis.

Best is to find a pediatrician who will write a note to the school that you can't comply with the law because there is no shot available in France that has just those three vaccines.

[IsaFrench]

I second that (& I'm french) MMR is NOT compulsory .... but most doctors tend to "push for it" counting on people not being informed and being easily swayed towards what they think is "best for the country".

The only three that are compulsory are D T P.

I was told that the combined version with 4 or 5 vaccines in one vial is for babies & that there IS a version with a single vaccine for older children, I'm not just sure what age it starts to be available for (I think 6 but I'll go and ask a pharmacist tomorrow and tell you what they say they can order/sell).

[IsaFrench]

found on the french version of wikipedia  (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination)

• Les vaccins contre la diphtérie, le tétanos et la poliomyélite

Ces trois vaccins sont traditionnellement administrés simultanément dans l'enfance au sein du DT Polio de Sanofi-Pasteur. Cependant il est très difficile de ne pratiquer que les seuls vaccins obligatoires, en effet ce produit (le seul vaccin "DTP" sans aluminium) n'est plus commercialisé par son fabricant qui l'a pour le moment retiré du marché depuis courant 2008 suite à une recrudescence d'allergies dont il serait responsable. Le vaccin de remplacement Revaxis n'a pas d'homologation pour une administration à des enfants de moins de six ans. Ces trois vaccins sont en général inoculés en même temps que les vaccins non obligatoires contre la coqueluche et l'Haemophilus influenzae B au sein d'un vaccin dit "pentavalent" (cinq actions).

so it looks like there's an option for just the 3 for after 6 years of age .... not to say that it will be easy to find a pharmacist who will be able to order it from its supplier .... but at least, you know the name of the possible replacement.

[IsaFrench]

Confirmation from my local pharmacist = no difficulty at all to procure the Revaxis for children over 6 years of age.

the other option for children less than 6 years of age is the Tetravac which has the 3 compulsory ones + pertussis/whooping cough

If I were you I wouldn't hurry (unless you have to have a medical certificate for the type of visa you'll be getting ?) since your eldest would be past 6 maybe when you arrive in France (6 years old by Sept 1st, => eldest can go in first grade)

+ because you can still start the course of vaccination as you arrive in France (there are places called "dispensaires" in every town where you can go and get any vaccinations that you need doing, for free if you don't bring your own vial  which you would have kept in your fridge after buying it from the pharmacist, after getting the prescription from your doctor, opening times for the "dispensaire" are not always convenient, for exemple in my town it's only on Wednesdays and you HAVE to start queueing to register with the nurse at 12:20 pm latest because the doctor starts at 12:30  on the dot, it's not a "consulation" where you discuss if you want the vaccination or not etc ... it's just a place where they do administer vaccinations and the time spent with the doctor is about 3 minutes max per person... you don't queue for ages basically as you could with a regular doctor who functions without appointments ...)

and if you arrive in the summer, school only starts in September so as long as you have started the course of vaccination or show the school that you have appointments lined up for doing it, you should be all right ...

what was more of a problem for us when we returned to France that we knew we were getting a certain flat at a certain address about 3 weeks later but the person in charge of registering late comers at the central place for registering for school would not allocate us to any school until we came back with a copy of the signed lease = we went to finally say "Hello" to the head teacher 2 days before the start of school & they had to reshuffle some classes (as in some of the teachers had 6 students of another grade in their class instead of just one grade per class SO that was a different workload for them & the supplies list given by the school in june effectively changed for some of the students = parents not too happy about it !!!)

one way to get around that is to find someone who could supply you with a "certificat d'hébergement" nearby where you think you'll be living so that you can apply for school in good time ...

if you decide that your youngest would be better of in a private "alternative" kindergarten (they start at 3 years old here & last 3 years), a bilingual one or montessori or whetever .... do ask them, it's possible that they are more relaxed about vaccination status, especially if they have a large expat population using their services ....

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

Do you not have a vax card from the states? You can fill it in yourself.....and tell the school that your child has had his vax's in the US and you will cont to get the remainder in the US. I would not vax my child just to satisfy another foreign country. But that is only my opinion, I know that we ll do what is best for our family. But i'd have to fudge on that one.

[IsaFrench]

previous poster 's suggestion "could work" .... Doctors do NOT keep their patients records over here,

at birth parents are issued a "Carnet de Santé"for each child with space at the back for Doctors to write and stamp and sign which vaccinations they do.

but that is for the parent to keep it & present it when needed (when ill at the doctor's office, or to provide photocopies of the vaccinations pages when registering for school, summer camp, some swim classes etc ....)

so ... the expectation is on the parent to present some sort of proof of vaccinations .... sinceyours would be done in foreign place & in a foreign language ... as long as it LOOKS genuine enough, that could well pass ....

[BabyJay'sMom]

First of all, thank you so much for helping me navigate the web of information out there regarding what I need to figure out before moving to Paris.  It looks like it is a certainty, and we'll be visiting at the end of January so my husband can meet his boss. 

Clarification please. 

Here in the states our babies get poked a zillion times for a thousand different vax's.  Are you telling me that you guys don't have to do that? 

Or that you do follow the standard schedule for France (I found the WHO schedule), but only the D T and P are required for school? 

Is there a large population that refuses/delays? 

Do they get a lot of flack from schools/docs?

As much as I would like to fudge the shot record, our health care provider keeps electronic records, so I'd be stuck if anyone called me on it.  Plus I'm no good at lying.  And frankly I think I'm OK with starting to selectively vax them at this age.  I never thought I'd say that, and there are some I'll never do, but I think they/I might be ready.  (Not to say I won't cry harder than they will.)

Unfortunately we will not be choosing where we live, we'll be in a corporate apartment, and the same goes for schooling.  They tell us where to go, at least initially for my then 51/2 year old.  (He won't be 6 until Dec 2011.)  So we will show up and go from there as far as I know.  I have no clue if my then 31/2 year old will be in school.  I'm sure we'll find out more about that in January.

Aaaah.  I really don't need any more gray hair.  Seriously. 

Thank you again!  Soon enough I will be asking you all for hotel advice!  That will be a much happier topic!

[RomanGoddess]

Originally Posted by BabyJay'sMom 

Here in the states our babies get poked a zillion times for a thousand different vax's.  Are you telling me that you guys don't have to do that? No, just diptheria, tetanus and polio as a matter of law, although there is a lot of pressure to do all the recommended vaccines and most people do them all.

Or that you do follow the standard schedule for France (I found the WHO schedule), but only the D T and P are required for school? Only D T and P are required for school.  Polio booster is required until age 13.

Is there a large population that refuses/delays? No and most people will think you're crazy or weird if you tell them that you don't vaccinate.

Do they get a lot of flack from schools/docs? If you go about it the right way no.  You have to find a anti-vaccine doctor who will write a note saying that your child cannot have the obligatory vaccines and then you're generally okay.  I don't think there are any religious or philosophical exemptions but someone else might correct me on that.

As much as I would like to fudge the shot record, our health care provider keeps electronic records, so I'd be stuck if anyone called me on it.  Plus I'm no good at lying.  And frankly I think I'm OK with starting to selectively vax them at this age.  I never thought I'd say that, and there are some I'll never do, but I think they/I might be ready.  (Not to say I won't cry harder than they will.)

Unfortunately we will not be choosing where we live, we'll be in a corporate apartment, and the same goes for schooling.  They tell us where to go, at least initially for my then 51/2 year old.  (He won't be 6 until Dec 2011.)  So we will show up and go from there as far as I know.  I have no clue if my then 31/2 year old will be in school.  I'm sure we'll find out more about that in January.  Preschool (école maternelle) starts at age three in France and 99 percent of children attend, so your little one is going to be mighty lonely if you don't put him in school at least for the mornings.  Did you mean December 2010 for your older son?  If so, your son will be put in grade one (called CP).

I would highly recommend joining MESSAGE.  You'll all the info you need there on schools and the area where you will be living.  You will likely get less info about vaccines as it is a pretty mainstream group on that front.

[BabyJay'sMom]

DS won't be 6 until the Dec after we arrive, so no luck starting vax's then.  I think we'll have to have the paperwork completed and turned into the school (whatever it may be) in July when we arrive.  Plus, now that I know that DD will also be attending some sort of school (she'll still be 3 when she starts) I think I'm going to have to get her vax'd for DTaP too. 

I'm really torn about this.  I just don't want to any sort of reaction.  I was going to start at our well baby/school physical appt next Tuesday, but I don't think I'm mentally ready.  I need to do some more research and map out a plan I think I will be able to live with.

And thanks for the MESSAGE recommendation.  I think I'll wait until I have a move date before joining it since it's a paid site.  Perhaps I can still bombard you guys with questions until then?  Please? 

We've got tickets to come visit from the 19th through 25th of January.  I'm starting to get excited. 

Thank you again RomanGoddess, IsaFrench and Mamato3wild ponnie.

[IsaFrench]

Do ask ! I might not know straight away but I like to search for answers and should be at least able to point you in the right direction ... + I regularly meet newly arrived expats so am used to "explaining my country" (.... which I now see with different eyes, after living abroad for a while !)