All-Comers Catholic chat - Support Only - Page 2

[lavatea]

Originally Posted by la mamita 

i am wondering if anyone has considered converting to the episcopalian/anglican church and decided against it? obviously if you had been for it, you wouldn't be here still sometimes i think maybe i should be there, because it's 'catholic lite' and theologically very similar but more liberal as far as social teachings. but i'm stubborn and still won't leave.

i go through periodic crises where i think --do i really belong here? how much are my beliefs going to grow? what would happen if i left?-- because i believe in about 99% of church teaching but have one tiny little hangup where i know it's not a question of me not fully understanding what the church is teaching, but me just flat out disagreeing with their logic and thus their conclusions in a specific social teaching. i also know my parish is pretty liberal and that this specific teaching is not promoted to the extent that other things are (not that they oppose the official position but it's just not a major topic of discussion), so it's not like every week i am listening to something i disagree with.
 

I am posting specifically to the above quoted material.

I found this video today and thought it was relevant. Hope it helps.

[PoppyMama]

Originally Posted by la mamita 

 I wrote all of this but didn't post it and then was walking to pick up my kid and realized if I die at this moment and am sitting face to face with God and making a reckoning for all of the things I have done in my life, I could be at peace saying "I knew your Church's teaching on XXX and I disobeyed it in my heart because I believed it to be wrong, not out of a selfish reason because I wanted to justify my own behavior but because I believed your message to be otherwise and because I prayed and reflected on your love and studied the Church's position and could not promote it in good conscience." Do with me what you will, but I do not feel guilt about this from this moment forward.

This is basically how I feel about it.  Not to say there aren't things I feel guilty about anyway.  I also think there is a difference between agreeing with the church morally and wanting that legislated.  I attended a Dignity Mass in San Antonio for a while when I lived there and that was a truly beautiful experience.  The palpable love in the room felt like a gift to God far above what I had felt with the more conservative folks.  

[JMJ]

I'm sorry to see a support thread turn into this.  If we're going to have an all-comers Catholic thread, maybe we should stick to the practice of the faith and praying for each other.  Historically all-comers Catholic threads have had a difficult time on MDC.  The traditional Catholics have a thread to bring up struggles relating to following closely to the teachings of the Magisterium, and at times, there has been a liberal Catholic thread as well.  Perhaps a liberal Catholic thread would be a more helpful place for some of you who know that you understand and disagree with certain teachings of the Catholic Church.

La mamita, I can understand the difficulties you are having.  I think that the Catholic Church is the best place for us, even for people who disagree with it at times.  We need to be constantly open and growing, and the Catholic Church is the most excellent place for that journey.  The spiritual journey is not one where you reach a point where you are "saved," and that's it.  You're heading for heaven.  It is a journey where you are constantly growing and trying to perfect your life, finding deeper and deeper stages of conversion.  I can look back on my life, things I said and did, and think how could I have thought that.  Though it gives me a compassion for others who think that too.  You have to be constantly open to God working in your life.  I love our beautiful liturgical seasons and have to ask in each season, how does God want me to grow this season?  I think the Catholic Church, the Church that Christ founded, is the best place to foster that growth.

At the same time, you should not pretend to be something that you are not.  This is not something that I or anyone else can decide for you.  It is something you have to understand for yourself.  Do your differences make you feel unaccepted by the people of the Church, of do your disagreements make you unable to fully embrace the Catholic faith.  You mention the Episcopalian Church.  Do the beliefs of the Episcopalian Church better mesh with your beliefs in a way that would allow you to fully embrace it, or is there something about the Catholic Church that makes you know that it is the True Church, and even though you have your disagreements, she is your mother, and she is going to help guide you to heaven.

I hope that helps.  Full disclosure: I'm a Catholic who tries to follow the pope and the Magisterium, and I do not mean to be offensive, though you may disagree with what I say.

[PoppyMama]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

...and even though you have your disagreements, she is your mother, and she is going to help guide you to heaven.

Ding, ding ding. To me dissent does not equal disrespect or not belonging.  My kids don't agree with me and I don't agree with my mother but we all respect and love one another and no one is bailing out to join another family.

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by lavatea 

Originally Posted by lavatea 

FWIW, I think a lot of the Catholics that are "non-traditional" have decided for themselves what is or isn't right, and the old fuddy-duddy Church should just get with the program or be left behind. Their thoughts and ideas are the be all and end all, not the Tradition and teaching of the Church (or the teachings of the Father or Jesus, for that matter). It's relativism at its best (or worst). My friend calls them closet Protestants.

That's insulting, and doesn't belong on this thread IMO.  Are you even aware of what Jesus really taught?  Have you read any good books on Christology, or the complete history of the Catholic Church?
 

I was responding to the part bolded below, and I'm sorry if you took offense to it. I didn't say all. I said a lot. So if that doesn't describe you, I don't understand why you're upset.

Originally Posted by JMJ 

I'm sorry to see a support thread turn into this.

The problem here is that this is a support-only forum, and this thread is bordering on debate since the "Traditional Catholics" are obviously not going to agree with the "Liberal Catholics" (for apparent lack of better terms).  It's my uinderstanding that la mamita was asking for support in her struggle with the Catholic faith, and when she received that other posters jumped right in to disagree and point fingers.  If I did that on the "Traditional" thread, even without malicious intentions, I suspect there would be an immediate uproar, and that I'd be in trouble with the moderators.

 If we're going to have an all-comers Catholic thread, maybe we should stick to the practice of the faith and praying for each other.  Historically all-comers Catholic threads have had a difficult time on MDC.  The traditional Catholics have a thread to bring up struggles relating to following closely to the teachings of the Magisterium, and at times, there has been a liberal Catholic thread as well.  Perhaps a liberal Catholic thread would be a more helpful place for some of you who know that you understand and disagree with certain teachings of the Catholic Church.

Or - we can have an all-comers thread, put on our big girl pants, and simply refrain from debate and disrespecting one another.  I don't think that exclusiveness is the answer.  I sometimes post on the "Traditional" support threads, and I manage to do it without disrespecting the nature of the thread/forum.

[lavatea]

Originally Posted by Trigger 

Originally Posted by lavatea 

Originally Posted by lavatea 

FWIW, I think a lot of the Catholics that are "non-traditional" have decided for themselves what is or isn't right, and the old fuddy-duddy Church should just get with the program or be left behind. Their thoughts and ideas are the be all and end all, not the Tradition and teaching of the Church (or the teachings of the Father or Jesus, for that matter). It's relativism at its best (or worst). My friend calls them closet Protestants.

That's insulting, and doesn't belong on this thread IMO.  Are you even aware of what Jesus really taught?  Have you read any good books on Christology, or the complete history of the Catholic Church?
 

I was responding to the part bolded below, and I'm sorry if you took offense to it. I didn't say all. I said a lot. So if that doesn't describe you, I don't understand why you're upset.

Originally Posted by JMJ 

I'm sorry to see a support thread turn into this.

The problem here is that this is a support-only forum, and this thread is bordering on debate since the "Traditional Catholics" are obviously not going to agree with the "Liberal Catholics" (for apparent lack of better terms).  It's my uinderstanding that la mamita was asking for support in her struggle with the Catholic faith, and when she received that other posters jumped right in to disagree and point fingers.  If I did that on the "Traditional" thread, even without malicious intentions, I suspect there would be an immediate uproar, and that I'd be in trouble with the moderators.

 If we're going to have an all-comers Catholic thread, maybe we should stick to the practice of the faith and praying for each other.  Historically all-comers Catholic threads have had a difficult time on MDC.  The traditional Catholics have a thread to bring up struggles relating to following closely to the teachings of the Magisterium, and at times, there has been a liberal Catholic thread as well.  Perhaps a liberal Catholic thread would be a more helpful place for some of you who know that you understand and disagree with certain teachings of the Catholic Church.

Or - we can have an all-comers thread, put on our big girl pants, and simply refrain from debate and disrespecting one another.  I don't think that exclusiveness is the answer.  I sometimes post on the "Traditional" support threads, and I manage to do it without disrespecting the nature of the thread/forum.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to stir up trouble or even debate (and I haven't noticed any other traditional Catholics on this thread doing that, either). I don't think support means total agreement. Discussing options is not debating. I responded directly to questions posed by la mamita, and I never called out anyone directly on this thread.

If you don't want "debate" and you don't want to stick to practice of faith and prayer topics, what do you want from this thread? I'm confused as to where we go from here.

[scottishmommy]

Well, I am a recent convert to the RCC from the Episcopal church, so I can at least offer my experience with the Episcopal church. There are some teachings that I find hard to swallow in the RCC, especially coming from my very liberal background. However, while I love the inclusiveness of the Episcopal Church, I never felt challenged to be a better Christian. That isn't to say that Episcopalians aren't good Christians, many of them are, but I never felt encouraged to be better. It reminds me of the old saying "don't be so open minded your brain falls out". In many ways I feel like the Episcopal church is afraid to challenge it's members for fear of offending people and the secular world. This goes for a lot of teachings,not just the ones we read about in the news. In my experience it was difficult to discern what exactly is sinful and what isn't. I guess I felt a little lost. When I decided to convert everything simply fell into place.
Now there are some things I really love about the EC. Most of the churches I've been to have great choirs and the congregation actually sings. There's fabulous Anglican chant and a lot of bells and smells. The liturgy and the prayers are beautiful and poetic. I go to a fabulous TLM now, but when I go to a normal Catholic mass, I'm always a little disappointed in the service(I hope this isn't offensive). I also feel like, in a weird way, the congregation is more reverent. They tend to dress very nicely for church, most kneel at the communion rail etc. I also have never met an episcopalian I didn't like:). They tend to be very well educated and articulate. You will also find a lot of diversity in any given parish. It would be hard to not fit in.
It's a hard decision to make. Obviously, I would say be a Catholic. However, if you can't reconcile the your beliefs with Church teaching and it's causing you to have less faith in God, I would suggest looking into the EC. I would rather you find God in another church than abandon Him altogether( I know you didn't say that your faith is wavering, I would just hate for that to happen).

[la mamita]

lavatea: while i appreciate your concern, in my second post after posing the question about not agreeing with a Church teaching, i specified that i was not looking for the perspective of Traditional/Orthodox Catholics. you replied, again, with an offhand reference to closet Protestants. i found that very upsetting and unsupportive. that was the point where i did not feel comfortable responding on this thread. however, you did ask for clarification, so this is for that purpose.

New Beginnings vs. All-Comers: I think if we want to get into hard questions among the liberal/non-orthodox/questioning Catholics, it would be helpful to go back to a New Beginnings Catholic chat instead of All-Comers. If we're just chatting about Advent and Christmas preparations or the latest homily at Mass without getting into theological issues, then I think everyone could be welcomed and supported in a single thread. I didn't really grasp the difference beforehand, but I now see that it makes a big difference. I know I read all of the Traditional Catholic threads because I learn a lot from some of the articles or questions posed there even if I don't agree with the views stated always, but I respectfully do not post there. I also think that Religious Studies is a great resource (I have spent so much time reading past threads) if we want to get into debate or the nitty gritty of specific doctrines.

scottishmommy: thank you, that is a very helpful perspective. i have attended a few Episcopalian services (mostly funerals, as my grandfather and his brothers are Episcopalian) but i don't think they were full-on mass services or perhaps just a low church style of worship. i do remember one lovely Christmas service when i was a child with the kyrie being chanted.

"However, if you can't reconcile the your beliefs with Church teaching and it's causing you to have less faith in God, I would suggest looking into the EC. I would rather you find God in another church than abandon Him altogether( I know you didn't say that your faith is wavering, I would just hate for that to happen)."
I think if I got to this point, I would totally agree, but luckily this hasn't affected my personal convictions of faith. I'm happy staying with the Church and I have come to peace with that decision, so I've given up thoughts of conversion. After reading more about church history and beliefs, I have some concerns about the EC as a whole historically and how certain doctrines have been abandoned or are optional...so that was another reason to nix the idea. I do wonder what the current state of the EC is worldwide, I know a few years ago it seemed like schism/breaking off for more conservative groups was inevitable and there was a lot of coverage on it but I haven't heard much recently...that's probably OT though!

I would also like to put forward the idea that the Catholic Church does a great job of providing a moral framework and thought process--even in the past when I was very opposed to some other teachings and practices (like the no birth control or anti-choice activities), I have always respected the fact that the Church puts so much thought and effort into creating the teachings. I was reminded of that today when reading about that crazy fundamentalist church (forget the name) picketing Elizabeth Edwards' funeral--the flyer advertising the picket seemed to be written by someone with very poor logical or reasoning skills even apart from its offensive and hateful nature. I can't say that for anything official I've read in the Catholic Church.

I have found that framework and tradition of theology very helpful and, I will admit, I have changed my mind on some of the things I used to disagree with as an adolescent Birth control and abortion to name a pretty major example. I've done a 180 since just a few years ago!

So, in short, I'm sticking with the Church. If anyone wants to reply to my previous post about Catholics who struggle with some of the teachings and stay with the Church, I would love to hear from you on this thread or via PM, but I'm not considering converting anymore, so don't worry about convincing me to stay, for better or worse I'm here

[scottishmommy]

Yay! I'm so glad. I think you are so right about the Church. Despite all the controversies there is stll a profound amount of wisdom behind every bit of dogma.
Generally, I think we could all put a little less emphasis on belief and more on spiritual growth. I know that sounds pretty new age for a trad Catholic, but really, I feel like we will all have our struggles with church teachings.

[lavatea]

Originally Posted by lavatea 

Originally Posted by la mamita 

Second, if you are one of those "mutinous" Catholics, where do you find support? I have been reading so much about Catholicism online and the vast majority seems to be from an orthodox perspective. I know this isn't the reality of the majority of Catholics--take the church's teachings on birth control and contraceptive rates by Catholics in the US, for example, even though that's not an issue of personal contention for me and I really appreciate the Church teaching on it, it's a good example. I want to know--how come all THOSE Catholics are sticking with the church? are they struggling with the same questions I am? where are their voices? I suppose one could argue that Catholics who aren't orthodox just go through the motions or weren't properly catechized, but I can't believe that is true for all of them! i want to hear from people who are struggling, who are wrestling with the teachings, who question their conscience, who do feel a deep sense of faith...
 

I feel like I should apologize to you. I wasn't trying to rag on you or make you feel like you don't belong. I think it's OK to have doubts/questions and wrestle with teachings. I just think it's dangerous to do it too publicly or in a certain way.

FWIW, I think a lot of the Catholics that are "non-traditional" have decided for themselves what is or isn't right, and the old fuddy-duddy Church should just get with the program or be left behind. Their thoughts and ideas are the be all and end all, not the Tradition and teaching of the Church (or the teachings of the Father or Jesus, for that matter). It's relativism at its best (or worst). My friend calls them closet Protestants.

Originally Posted by la mamita 

lavatea: while i appreciate your concern, in my second post after posing the question about not agreeing with a Church teaching, i specified that i was not looking for the perspective of Traditional/Orthodox Catholics. you replied, again, with an offhand reference to closet Protestants. i found that very upsetting and unsupportive. that was the point where i did not feel comfortable responding on this thread. however, you did ask for clarification, so this is for that purpose.

New Beginnings vs. All-Comers: I think if we want to get into hard questions among the liberal/non-orthodox/questioning Catholics, it would be helpful to go back to a New Beginnings Catholic chat instead of All-Comers. If we're just chatting about Advent and Christmas preparations or the latest homily at Mass without getting into theological issues, then I think everyone could be welcomed and supported in a single thread. I didn't really grasp the difference beforehand, but I now see that it makes a big difference. I know I read all of the Traditional Catholic threads because I learn a lot from some of the articles or questions posed there even if I don't agree with the views stated always, but I respectfully do not post there. I also think that Religious Studies is a great resource (I have spent so much time reading past threads) if we want to get into debate or the nitty gritty of specific doctrines.

To your first point about me upsetting you, I quoted the relevant material above. (Sorry to make this all about me defending myself, but I really don't like being misunderstood and then attacked under the guise of saying I attacked first.) The bolded and italicized sentence I understood was a question to non-orthodox Catholics, and I did not respond. I responded to the bolded part several lines past that. I didn't understand that you meant for the whole post to be directed at just non-orthodox Catholics, and I'm sorry that I responded since you obviously didn't want my opinion. And, again on my thoughts on dissident Catholics, I said a lot not all or even most.

To respond to your point on All-Comers vs. New Beginnings, I suppose maybe there was supposed to be a difference here, but it looks as if this is really a liberal Catholic thread. I've never hung out in a liberal Catholic thread before (and I promise I never will again b/c this thread alone is making my blood pressure sky-rocket). I'm sorry this whole thing has devolved. I read blogs and such and I knew there was a great divide in the Church, but I never realized its full extent until now. I'm saddened honestly.

I'm off to pray about all of this and for all of us. I'm sorry I ever responded and apologize again for any hurt feelings that were caused. It was never my intention to hi-jack this thread or cause tension. Peace be with you.

[la mamita]

To your first point about me upsetting you, I quoted the relevant material above. (Sorry to make this all about me defending myself, but I really don't like being misunderstood and then attacked under the guise of saying I attacked first.) The bolded and italicized sentence I understood was a question to non-orthodox Catholics, and I did not respond. I responded to the bolded part several lines past that. I didn't understand that you meant for the whole post to be directed at just non-orthodox Catholics, and I'm sorry that I responded since you obviously didn't want my opinion. And, again on my thoughts on dissident Catholics, I said a lot not all or even most.

In that case, it seems to be a simple misunderstanding: I thought I had clarified and asked traditional/orthodox Catholics to hold their replies and you thought I was continuing the discussion for everyone with a new topic or strand of the conversation. I definitely felt confused that you were continuing to respond and I don't normally have these conversations so directly about my own beliefs with people I do not know, so it's hard not to take comments personally, even if you are speaking generally or referring to things other people have said. I do not hold any hard feelings and I am sorry if I have caused any hard feelings on your part.

I will say that the New Beginnings thread has a history and, lavatea, seeing you joined MDC in 2009, you missed a great part of it. Basically lots of threads got into very heated and unproductive discussions between orthodox or even ultra-traditional (SPXX leaning) Catholics and more liberal Catholics and the result was two separate threads: Traditional and NB. The NB one seems to have faded out in recent years and I believe the Traditional tribe has gotten smaller as some people left MDC due to some of the conflicts...

Um, let's go back to talking about Advent, perhaps?

[Trigger]

I'm all for a return to Advent discussion, but first - can somebody spare me a clue?
 

Originally Posted by la mamita 

New Beginnings vs. All-Comers: I think if we want to get into hard questions among the liberal/non-orthodox/questioning Catholics, it would be helpful to go back to a New Beginnings Catholic chat instead of All-Comers.  

Originally Posted by lavatea 

To respond to your point on All-Comers vs. New Beginnings, I suppose maybe there was supposed to be a difference here, but it looks as if this is really a liberal Catholic thread. I've never hung out in a liberal Catholic thread before (and I promise I never will again b/c this thread alone is making my blood pressure sky-rocket). I'm sorry this whole thing has devolved. I read blogs and such and I knew there was a great divide in the Church, but I never realized its full extent until now. I'm saddened honestly.

Originally Posted by la mamita 

I will say that the New Beginnings thread has a history and, lavatea, seeing you joined MDC in 2009, you missed a great part of it. Basically lots of threads got into very heated and unproductive discussions between orthodox or even ultra-traditional (SPXX leaning) Catholics and more liberal Catholics and the result was two separate threads: Traditional and NB. The NB one seems to have faded out in recent years and I believe the Traditional tribe has gotten smaller as some people left MDC due to some of the conflicts...

 

What does all of this mean, exactly?

 Um, let's go back to talking about Advent, perhaps?
 

 Absolutely!  B and I are attending the Advent reconciliation service tomorrow afternoon (Fr. D will use the letters we collected over the past two weeks to tailor the service), followed by a potluck soup supper in the parish center.  We're making ham and bean soup - I have navy and black beans soaking right now.

[la mamita]

Basically lots of threads got into very heated and unproductive discussions between orthodox or even ultra-traditional (SPXX leaning) Catholics and more liberal Catholics and the result was two separate threads: Traditional and NB. The NB one seems to have faded out in recent years and I believe the Traditional tribe has gotten smaller as some people left MDC due to some of the conflicts...

Quoting myself but this was pretty much it as to the history of the New Beginnings threads. There used to be a number of single Catholic threads, All-Comers if you will, but there ended up being so many disagreements and snark and fighting that the threads split off: New Beginnings which was for liberal leaning Catholics and the Traditional Catholics which is pretty self-explanatory. I think there used to be more Catholic posters back in the day and a few in both "sides" of the issue were very strong-willed and inclined to debate. You can look at some of the threads from, like, 4 or 5 years ago, but I am betting the worst of the worst were pulled and not returned.

Basically, it just got ugly and things were much easier and more peaceful when there was a place for Traditional Catholics to get support on following Church teachings to their fullest and the NB thread was helpful to those who were thinking of leaving the Church, questioning some teachings (like celibacy and purgatory to name some of the ones commonly discussed), not sure if there was a place for their views, who were non-traditional in some aspect of their lives (for example divorced or GLBT), or just were on the liberal side of things in general. I do think there is something to be said for gentle treatment of people who are questioning aspects of the faith or considering converting and unsure of how to reconcile past beliefs or choices and for having a safe space to do that--in the past, some of the responses were very harsh and I think gave the impression that Catholicism was about rules and wrist-slaps and in-fighting when doubt or confusion or even disagreement have often been a part of many devoted Catholic's journey of faith and shouldn't automatically be told "love it or leave it".

My involvement was sporadic at this time, mostly lurking and occasionally posting but I think this was when I started going back to the Church after a long period of non-attendance so the discussions were very inspiring to me in that regard, and I know there are more details that I am missing (I remember hearing something about a splinter group that eventually left MDC, but don't know anything about that), but that's the gist of it. eta: feel free to look up some of the old threads, there were some great voices posting on either side who have since left...I think the dates would be around 2006-2008 but I'm not totally sure when things really were at their worst.

Advent, we look forward to opening the doors every day and my kid has learned the Our Father in Spanish (! I don't even know it in Spanish) by praying every night. I've also decided to baptize him after waiting so long for his dad to organize things with the godparents he picked out. It's either next weekend here in Peru or next year in the US when we return home...I can't wait!

[enkmom]

I was a regular poster on the New Beginning threads, and I really miss them.  I also really miss some of the other posters who I don't even see around Mothering anymore.  I learned so much from those women and felt so supported during the really hard parts of my faith journey.  Having a safe place to talk about our struggles was wonderful.

As for advent, I am making time for prayer every day.  My daughter may be helping out a friend at another parish by singing in their choir, so we will get to attend midnight mass after all.  Trigger, I love the idea of a Reconciliation service followed by a meal.  A potluck sounds awesome - our church doesn't really host any fellowship events.

[lavatea]

I'm so glad we can continue this thread. I really hate tension.

We have an Advent Reconciliation service Monday night. I wonder if they'll use the Our Lady of Guadalupe readings (I read in the Misselette that that's an option since the OLG feast day readings can't supercede the Sunday readings). Our parish occasionally has fellowship events after Masses, but I wish they did it more often. I suppose it can be expensive, but I really like it when there's a fellowship especially after a feast day Mass.

Then again, I have a hard time making friends, so I generally stand off to the side of the room feeling awkward throughout most of the fellowship. I don't know many people and have resisted really putting myself out there because I thought we were moving this January. But now we're staying at least another year so I really need to try harder.

[Trigger]

Thanks, la mamita.  I'll have to search out some of that stuff sometime.

 

Originally Posted by enkmom 

  Trigger, I love the idea of a Reconciliation service followed by a meal.  A potluck sounds awesome - our church doesn't really host any fellowship events.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavatea Our parish occasionally has fellowship events after Masses, but I wish they did it more often. I suppose it can be expensive, but I really like it when there's a fellowship especially after a feast day Mass. 

Our reconciliation service was really, really nice.  I have some hangups about the ritual of reconciliation (not the Sacrament, just the ritual) and I was a tad anxious, but having B there beside me holding my hand (and praying for the guidance of the Holy Spirit) strengthened my resolve.  All of the first communicants made their First Reconciliation this evening, so the service took some time; but it was so sweet to watch them.  We had three priests stationed across the altar to hear confessions - I like that it was private enough, but also somewhat public - openly acknowledging to one another that we need reconciliation with God for the transgression of our sins.  I liked that it was less formal, as well.  Fr. D would put his arm around each person as the they approached, drawing them in as his royal blue vestments made a kind of veil about them.  The priest I confessed to was extremely kind, and kept me there for some time.  He hugged me before I departed the altar.

The soup potluck was wonderful.  The costs to the parish were minimal, as parishioners were asked to provide soups (there was a TON) and desserts.  The parish provided coffee, salads, bread, and paper products.  I made a pot of bean & ham soup.  Somebody brought three boxes of wine.  The religious ed kids did all the serving and bussed the tables, and volunteers from the Rosary Altar Society and the Knights of Columbus did the kitchen grunt work.

I'm newer to the parish, and still don't know a lot of people, but B has been heavily involved there for 22 years so there is never a lack of people to hang out with at parish functions!

(I'm no shrinking violet, though.  )

For meal grace at home during the Advent season, we are using a great booklet called Grace Upon Grace: Catholic Family Prayers for Each Day of Advent. Each reading begins with a short reflection & Scripture passage (to be read by a child), then a longer reflection which is read by a parent, then ends with a prayer read by a child, with a recitation of the Lord's Prayer rounding out the entire thing.

[lavatea]

Originally Posted by Trigger 

For meal grace at home during the Advent season, we are using a great booklet called Grace Upon Grace: Catholic Family Prayers for Each Day of Advent. Each reading begins with a short reflection & Scripture passage (to be read by a child), then a longer reflection which is read by a parent, then ends with a prayer read by a child, with a recitation of the Lord's Prayer rounding out the entire thing.

I so envy this kind of family stuff. I'm lucky to have an Advent wreath and a prayer before meals. Any extra stuff just wouldn't happen here unless I was alone with the kids. My husband isn't Catholic (raised Baptist - as was I - but doesn't practice though he does occasionally attend Mass with us) and my sister isn't Catholic, either. They both moan and groan when I try to do anything too out of the ordinary.

[Trigger]

Originally Posted by lavatea 

Originally Posted by Trigger 

For meal grace at home during the Advent season, we are using a great booklet called Grace Upon Grace: Catholic Family Prayers for Each Day of Advent. Each reading begins with a short reflection & Scripture passage (to be read by a child), then a longer reflection which is read by a parent, then ends with a prayer read by a child, with a recitation of the Lord's Prayer rounding out the entire thing.

I so envy this kind of family stuff. I'm lucky to have an Advent wreath and a prayer before meals. Any extra stuff just wouldn't happen here unless I was alone with the kids. My husband isn't Catholic (raised Baptist - as was I - but doesn't practice though he does occasionally attend Mass with us) and my sister isn't Catholic, either. They both moan and groan when I try to do anything too out of the ordinary.

Don't give up.  It took awhile before I could get my kids on board with stuff like this.  It wasn't until their dad & I split, and I moved to my own house, that we were able to really start incorporating some of these things.  (NOT that divorce is the answer, of course! - obviously the whole situation is far more complicated than lack of family prayer.)  I feel incredibly blessed that my oldest still makes it to Mass most Sundays (unless he is working or visiting his GF at her school).  B's oldest is coming to Mass with us on Christmas Eve, and I know he's thrilled - his girls are out on their own, and haven't actively practiced their faith for several years.

For myself, I've made an effort to at least spend the six minutes on the "Little Blue Book" daily Advent reflections on Matthew's infancy narrative, and to follow up with a reflection from the book, What Do YOU Want for Christmas?  I have a specific spiritual challenge that I am wrestling with this Advent season, and these reflections are part of my effort to work through my struggle.

B's sister sent me the Magnificat booklet for Advent, and I managed to misplace the darn thing.  Can't find it anywhere.

[lavatea]

Somehow I got a free copy of the Magnificat in the mail. I'm really enjoying it, though I'm pathetic at getting to it every day.

I think my prayer life is decent, but my devotion time stinks. And though I frequently pray throughout the day, I'd like to do more structured novenas and talking to saints and praying the Rosary. So maybe I should just focus all of my energy on spending more time on those things. Maybe someday my husband/family stuff will fall into place.

[Trigger]

B and I have been asked to minister the Eucharist at Christmas Eve Mass