My parents vax'd DS (long, sorry) - Page 2

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Dov'sMom 

I haven't read the posts yet, but one thing jumped out at me from your original post even before you get to the rights and wrongs of vaccination.

Your parents told your son to hide something from you.

That is a HUGE problem. Your son needs to know that he can tell you anything, everything. The message for him should be that if anyone tells him not to tell you something he should come running straight to you and tell you immediately. For TWO reasons:

1. (The much more obvious and probably the one to raise with your parents) Abuse. Abusers are always telling kids not to tell, they'll hurt them if they tell, you'll be mad if they tell. If your son has a foundation for thinking there are things he should hide from you, then it will be much easier to convince him to hide something else.

2. Undermining you as the parent. If their message to him is that they can decide certain things are good for him and you don't have to know, that's replacing you with them as the primary decision makers in his life. Or at least giving him unnecessary confusion.

And then there's the more general issue of are they trying to teach him that if he wants to do something he shouldn't it's okay if he hides it well? We spend so much of our parenting time trying to teach kids that we don't resolve disputes by force and trying to help them internalize certain rules of behavior -- and here they are saying oh, it doesn't matter as long as no one knows about it. Huh?

Actually they OP said that her parents might have told him to not tell her - it was just a feeling the OP had based on her son's behavior.

[tjlucca]

So sorry Mama. Make sure you and your son get the help you need to heal from this ordeal.  My thoughts are with you. 

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

So sorry to hear about these issues.  You should be eligible for state aid.  You may not get housing, as most state funded housing is a several year wait (some up to 3-4 years).  But, you should be eligible for Medicaid, Food Stamps, and possibly TANF.

If you are vegetarian and they are feeding your son meat, against your wishes, that is a huge no-no.  The only time it would be a rock/hard place thing is if they eat meat and your son wants it himself and is not being forced to eat it (my youngest could never be a vegetarian, LOL).  But, I would still demand that they respect the choices you have made as a parent.

As for the vax...I've never heard of Tetanus being injected in the leg.  Isn't it usually injected into the shoulder?  But, yes, I would check on that and find out what he got.

I'm not in your shoes and I will not have to live with the consequences of the choices made, so I will not even give advice on that.  But, you should really, really look into housing assistance from other sources (besides government).  A lot of churches, local community outreach programs, etc have "emergency housing" for people in your situation.  It's probably better if you get out on your own as soon as possible.  I also agree with going back to school...and despite the costs of child care, most states offer "child care assistance" to help pay for child care and most schools have child care available during all school hours.

But, I have to say good for you for getting out of an abusive relationship.  That is very hard for a lot of people to do and you really do deserve a lot of kudos for that!!  I hope that everything works out well for you!!

[Arduinna]

Having BTDT when my dd was a baby, I was homeless and didn't even have a car to sleep in. I bounced around various friends ect and even stayed the night at a hotel on an emergency welfare voucher when I had no where else to go. My mom would have done the same thing your parents did to you if I had given her the opportunity. It sounds like your parents are basically blackmailing you, you can't stand up for yourself as a mother for fear they won't help you. I'm sorry but what kind a loving parent is that? I rented a room and lived on welfare for awhile after I became homeless because I refuse to put myself and my child at the whim of my passive aggressive manipulative mother. I'm really worried for you and for your kids. I hope you can work out a situation where you and your children can stay together and aren't at the mercy of your parents.

[ameliabedelia]

If you are vegetarian and they are feeding your son meat, against your wishes, that is a huge no-no.  The only time it would be a rock/hard place thing is if they eat meat and your son wants it himself and is not being forced to eat it (my youngest could never be a vegetarian, LOL).  But, I would still demand that they respect the choices you have made as a parent.

I disagree with this.  If they have 100% care of the child and are feeding and housing him (and obviously buying food for him), they can feed him whatever they want.   I assume the OP is not compensating them in any way for the food he eats.   If someone else if feeding my child on their dime, I can't imagine dictating what they can and can't feed him (short of allergies or anything like that of course).

The vax issue is a bit trickier..but honestly, if you basically have someone else taking full responsibility for your child 100% of the time...well I could see how they would feel the right to make those decisions.   Yes, they should have respected your wishes...but if you're going totally relinquish the care of your child to someone else..well that is the risk you take.

[crunchy_mommy]

Two things I want to say...

1 - You say you have "no choice." That's very disempowering. Try thinking through things in a different way -- not, "I have no choice so I'm letting my parents raise my son," but, "I am chosing to move in with my parents while I get back on my feet," and "I am choosing to overlook the meat issue because other issues are more important right now." It might seem like a silly distinction but I think it's a critical one! You may not have as many options as you'd like or the options might not be ideal, but no matter what you are making a CHOICE. You are chosing to live with your parents rather than in your car or at a shelter or on the street. You are chosing to let them make some parenting decisions for you rather than keeping it all in your control. Just because the alternatives involve risks, that doesn't diminish the fact that it's still a choice. I especially think this is important when reclaiming your life after being in an abusive relationship (and I've been there). Don't tell yourself you don't have a choice, that's doing yourself a huge disservice.

2 - Moving back in with your parents is an excellent time to sit down with them and have a clear & precise discussion regarding what's expected of each party. Will you step in as DS's primary caregiver now, or will they share that role? Will you cook meatless meals for yourself & DS or will they be feeding him? Will you handle all doctor's visits, or will that be a shared duty, and if shared, what are the limitations of their role? Will you be paying rent or back-paying once you get back on your feet? Talk all these things out & write out an informal 'contract' or point-by-point list so that everyone knows what to expect & is on the same page.

I think it's not right at all for them to go behind your back & vax him, especially if they also asked him to lie to you. That's a major issue & I would be very reluctant to leave my child in that kind of environment but I understand it may be better than the alternatives. But I also think that they may just be doing what they think is right. If they are basically raising your son, and are responsible for all his daily care as well as medical appointments etc., you are giving them the power to make those kinds of decisions for you. I would also be curious about how the vax visit came about -- did they specifically make an appointment to vax him, or did they happen to be at a routine checkup with him & the doctor suggested/pressured them into it? Because I could very easily see a grandparent taking their grandkid to a routine appointment & not refusing the shots because of intimidation/lack of knowledge/aggreeing with the pedi's suggestion/etc. Maybe they were just caught off guard so went ahead & did it? Maybe they were told it was a requirement & didn't understand they really could refuse it?

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 

If you are vegetarian and they are feeding your son meat, against your wishes, that is a huge no-no.  The only time it would be a rock/hard place thing is if they eat meat and your son wants it himself and is not being forced to eat it (my youngest could never be a vegetarian, LOL).  But, I would still demand that they respect the choices you have made as a parent.

I disagree with this.  If they have 100% care of the child and are feeding and housing him (and obviously buying food for him), they can feed him whatever they want.   I assume the OP is not compensating them in any way for the food he eats.   If someone else if feeding my child on their dime, I can't imagine dictating what they can and can't feed him (short of allergies or anything like that of course).

If you were vegetarian and you had to go out of town for 2-3 weeks, you would be ok with your parents feeding your children meat...just because they are taking full-time care of the kids, etc?  I wouldn't be.  5 hours or 1 year...if they took care of my kids, I would still expect them to respect my views/wants as a parent...

I do think the OP needs to get out of that situation.  There are so many places out there that can help.  I cannot imagine the stress you are going through with having your parents constantly going against your wishes and all...while you are pregnant.  You need to start looking in to how to make other living arrangements.

[Lisa1970]

I am not sure I am understanding this correctly, but you are not living with your son, he is living with them and you also signed over the legal right for them to make medical decisions?

There is a different type of paperwork that says in the case of an emergency, they can get medical help for him to stablize him and that is it. It is the sort of thing you sign for school and such. But, if you signed something giving them the right to do whatever they please in the medical world, and the little boy is living with them full time and you are visiting, then there really is not much you can do or say. You can get upset with them, but unless you are willing to take your son back and have him live with you, then I think you just have to let it go.

Look at it from their point of view. They are the ones raising him now. They made this decision to have him vaccinated.

I think, if this bothers you enough, you should pick up your son and keep him. Do not leave him alone with them. On the part where you signed over legal medical custody, you can reverse that. It is true that they might violate it anyway, but you can put the hospitals and doctors under notice that your parents do not have the legal right to consent to anything and if they do anything without your consent, you will come after them legally. That will get the doctors to refuse to treat him based on your parents say so.

I know I sound harsh. I don't want to sound harsh. But there are choices you have made that led to this situation. You know how babies are made and you got pregnant again. The man you got pregnant by this time is an abusive alcoholic. I doubt you had no clue of his drinking problems until you were already pregnant. My understanding is that your little boy was already not living with you by then. 

As sad as this sounds, and as much as I hate the idea of someone having to give up their baby, maybe if you gave the baby you are expecting up for adoption, through open adoption of course, maybe this would open you up to having a better chance at a life with your son where you can move to your own place and move on. He is old enough that maybe he can get in to a public preK program (most states have this free to anyone below a certain income) and you can get a job that will allow you to care for him. I know this all seems so sad and hard to take in, but just think about it. Because I am concerned that with the next baby, it will just get even harder to get any control over things. In a good open adoption, you can keep contact with the family and the baby for the years to come. 

((((hugs)))))

[yarngoddess]

Hey Mama- Just wondering how things are going? Have you checked into changing the paperwork? Have you talked more with your parents regarding this issue....and the other issues going on? Please tell me you are now living with your son, and that you are safe. I'm homeless (with my kids) at the moment- and just wanted to send you some hugs and positive vibes. Hang in there!

[ameliabedelia]

If you were vegetarian and you had to go out of town for 2-3 weeks, you would be ok with your parents feeding your children meat...just because they are taking full-time care of the kids, etc?  I wouldn't be.  5 hours or 1 year...if they took care of my kids, I would still expect them to respect my views/wants as a parent.

 There is a difference between someone "taking care" of my kids on a short-term, temporary basis and "taking care of them" on  full-time, longer-term basis.  If I were a vegetarian, and my parents took care of my kids for 5 hours, obviously I would be upset if they fed them meat.  However, if they took care of them for an entire year...well at that point they can do whatever they want.  If someone else is taking full care of my kids for an entire year, they THEY are 'parenting' them and they make the decisions.  The exception maybe being if I were contributing to the financial care of the kids.  If so, then I would still want a say.
 

2-3 weeks is kinda iffy.  It probably depends on how much of a hassle it would be for the caregivers to respect my wishes for 2-3 weeks.  If they have to cook special meals or do things drastically differently than they normally do, then no I would not expect them to keep my kids vegetarian.  Again, it also depends on if I am giving them money to offset the cost of feeding them.

I don't think it's fair to have someone else feed, house, clothe and do all the full-time parenting of your kids, and then dictate how they are raised.  If you want your kids raised a certain way, parent them yourself.

I still don't get why the OP didn't move in with her parents when her child did.  Then she could have cooked his meals, taken him to the doctor, done all the care and fed him/raised him/not-vaccinated the way she wanted

Edited by ameliabedelia - 12/5/10 at 9:32am

[NaturalBirthGoddes]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 

I still don't get why the OP didn't move in with her parents when her child did.  Then she could have cooked his meals, taken him to the doctor, done all the care and fed him/raised him/not-vaccinated the way she wanted

I believe she said that her mother wouldn't let her??  I have to go back and read the opening post, but I thought she mentioned that in there, somewhere...

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by ameliabedelia 

If you were vegetarian and you had to go out of town for 2-3 weeks, you would be ok with your parents feeding your children meat...just because they are taking full-time care of the kids, etc?  I wouldn't be.  5 hours or 1 year...if they took care of my kids, I would still expect them to respect my views/wants as a parent.

 There is a difference between someone "taking care" of my kids on a short-term, temporary basis and "taking care of them" on  full-time, longer-term basis.  If I were a vegetarian, and my parents took care of my kids for 5 hours, obviously I would be upset if they fed them meat.  However, if they took care of them for an entire year...well at that point they can do whatever they want.  If someone else is taking full care of my kids for an entire year, they THEY are 'parenting' them and they make the decisions.  The exception maybe being if I were contributing to the financial care of the kids.  If so, then I would still want a say.
 

2-3 weeks is kinda iffy.  It probably depends on how much of a hassle it would be for the caregivers to respect my wishes for 2-3 weeks.  If they have to cook special meals or do things drastically differently than they normally do, then no I would not expect them to keep my kids vegetarian.  Again, it also depends on if I am giving them money to offset the cost of feeding them.

I don't think it's fair to have someone else feed, house, clothe and do all the full-time parenting of your kids, and then dictate how they are raised.  If you want your kids raised a certain way, parent them yourself.

I still don't get why the OP didn't move in with her parents when her child did.  Then she could have cooked his meals, taken him to the doctor, done all the care and fed him/raised him/not-vaccinated the way she wanted

Or- if sleeping arrangements were the problem (if I'm remembering correctly), then why not just have her son stay the night with her parents and care for him during the day? That way she would have still been able to make the decisions about his food and medical care, because she would have been arranging it. The way I read the story is that she just kind of dropped him and left, leaving 100% of his care up to her parents. And in that case, I don't get how you get to still make the parenting decisions.