Husband thinking that C section is safer

[Franci]

Hello.

I'm here in search of a little bit of comfort and maybe data to help me out.

Yesterday night I had a huge fight with my husband over C-section.

I'm due in February and it's my second birth. First one ended in a C-section for failure to progress and CPD. For very long time I was at peace with it because I thought that the hospital staff did "their" best to go for natural but now I'm doubting things could have gone differently.

A couple months ago, my husband told my mom that he thought it would be much easier if I go for a repeated section...I got really angry.

Yesterday we were about to practise breathing (I bought the pink kit) and the conversation went again on C-section.

He thinks of himself as a very logical person, his job requires him to make decision sometimes with limited information but logically and he is very good at spotting when something doesn't make sense. He is convinced throught his readings (maybe a NYTimes article had a major role) that C-sections are much safer and the reason infant mortality in this century is much lower is because of it.

Logically for me, I told him that a reason to C sections is that births are nowadays performed in hospitals by OBs and doctors have a tendency to "fix" things and they want to plan their time, their people and their outcome. And likely it requires more skills from a doctor to handle a difficult natural birth than a C section. And my fault, I told him that insurances push for more C sections (it was my impression reading here and there, correct me if I mistaken). So, this fact gave him one more reason to think that C-section is safer.

Ultimately I said that I don't care...I just know what I want for myself and if we know women who are happily going for a repeated cesarean it's NOT me! He fails to understand why it's so important to me and I fail to explain to him why it's so important...I think this is going to be my last pregnancy. We live in Europe, in a different place where I had my first child. Here is not going to be better, worse!

So I've already the normal insecurity that can be there after a C section, plus the fact that birth here is more medicalized but what bothers me most is knowing that my husband is not there for me 100%. He told me this morning before going to work that he is going be doing what I want (and that anyway leaves me a bitter feeling) because I don't feel like him being totally on my side. Is it asking too much? He wants me to be "reasonable" this time, like I've been reasonable last time.

I believe you never know what can happen in labor...last time, the fact my water brake at beginning and I had non stop contractions from beginning to end made things much worst, it was very difficult to cope with the pain and I was struggling with repositioning the baby. Maybe that had more of a role on having a C-section that the hospital staff.

He thinks I've become a fanatic. I really believe I'm very far from it...I want him to go through the pink kit with me because I feel he would have a much better understanding of the birthing process and it's a program which you could use given your circumstances, even the not very favourable one. He would not read any book or article if I present it to him, I think I will have to sound convincing and win his logic.

Thanks for listeninig.

Francesca

[JamieCatheryn]

Here's a site reporting some of the risks with real numbers attached http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/cesareanrisks.html

Cesarean sections are lifesaving when needed, but waaayyy too risky to do for no reason! I hope he comes around and faces the real facts.

[prothyraia]

Statistics are good and you can find them easily (the World Health Organization has some reccomendations about c-section rates).  There's pretty conclusive proof that vaginal birth after c-section is safer for the mother than a routine repeat c-section.  So there's that.

From a logic standpoint, you could also add that of course c-sections reduce mortality- when they're needed.   Having major abdominal surgery, including the anesthesia, if you *don't* need it is of course not beneficial or safe. 

The option to have a c-section is wonderful, and I'm very glad I live in a time and place where I have to access to it in the event that it could save my life or that of my baby.  I mean, I feel the same way about appendectomy.  But just like I'm not signing up to have surgery to remove my appendix just because it's available, I'm not signing up for a surgery to remove my baby if she (or he) can get out perfectly well on their own.

With your husband, I might not try to convince him that your first c-section was unnecessary (if that's what you believe).  I would try something more along the lines of 'it's great this was available when we needed it but it's really safer NOT to have surgery, so of course we should TRY to do it the safer way and if we need surgery again this time, well, it will be available'.    This doesn't really get him fully on your side as a support person (do you have a doula? Might be a really good idea), but it does at least potentially convince him that scheduling a c-section before you even go into labor is NOT the safest route.

Edited to add: I'm also guessing that he may not have really come to terms with seeing you suffer through labor and failure to progress and may not want to go through that (or see you go through it) again.  If he's scared of watching you go through labor, of course a c-section will seem "easier"

[Marissamom]

Originally Posted by prothyraia 

Edited to add: I'm also guessing that he may not have really come to terms with seeing you suffer through labor and failure to progress and may not want to go through that (or see you go through it) again.  If he's scared of watching you go through labor, of course a c-section will seem "easier"

I agree, he's probably afraid you'll end up with another c-section no matter what, and doesn't want to see you "suffer" through labor just to have it end up unnecessary. 

[lyterae]

I am due in February as well, my first was a c-section for "failure to progress", due to a positioning issue I pushed for almost 4 hours before my c-section. My husband is supportive of my decision because he knows it is important to me, because we believe that a c-section is a safer birth choice,  but also because we don't want our childbearing determined by the number of surgeries I have (each pregnancy and birth is riskier with multiple cesarean births). It's a difficult decision to make, I hope you and your husband are able to discuss and be in agreement. :hug

[TanyaS]

This chart from an editorial in the Journal of Perinatal Education may be helpful.  Here is a link to the article: 

http://issuu.com/rachelj/docs/andrews_-_0011-0015-1

Included with the article, is a flowchart with the risks of multiple cesareans compared to multiple VBAC births.  Perhaps seeing the dangers of cesarean in front of him would help him understand?  Especially if he is logical, the chart should be helpful.  Until he educates himself on the real risks of cesarean births, then cannot possibly know that it is safer than VBAC.  Sometimes men may not be able to tell you specifically what is so dangerous because they are simply fearful for you and/or the child. 

[gemasita]

I think it's pretty easy to find the information that says that both mothers and babies are 2 to 3 times more likely to die from a c-section.  (Of course, they are great when needed but a good reason to plan a vaginal birth).  And as I was just explaining to my husband tonight, maternal and infant mortality have NOT decreased over the past 3 decades or so and yet the c-section rate went from 10% or so to 32%...so something's not adding up.

I think many people think c-sections are more controlled and predictable than a vaginal birth.  Of course they are - vaginal birth can be quite unpredictable.  I bet that's more what he is thinking.  But that doesn't automatically translate to safer.  For him, a controlled event probably FEELS safer than the uncertainty of a vaginal birth (how long will it be, what the "play-by-play" will end up being, etc).

This is interesting to me because I find that the husbands/male partners of my clients are almost always the only one who says, "Well, we gave it a good try," when a c-section is called.  Almost like vaginal birth is what you try first but then you "give up" on that crazy idea and go for the c-section if things aren't going well.  I wonder if it's a gender thing (control) to make them feel better because I hear husbands/male partners and male OBs say this but I rarely hear a female say this.  I just don't think this the way we (females) think about birth (in general, of course - there are always exceptions.  If females think of it this way, I assume it's also from a loss of control/fear/lack of confidence in normal birth).  I think birth is something that is hard for many men to understand and feel confident so they make themselves feel more in control or like they are helping to "do" something to solve a complicated birth by saying, "Good try everyone.  Let's switch gears and move forward with plan B."

Don't know if any of that makes sense....pregnancy fatigue coming into play tonight!

[Franci]

Thanks everybody for the replies. I'll study the links posted.
 

Originally Posted by prothyraia 

With your husband, I might not try to convince him that your first c-section was unnecessary (if that's what you believe).  I would try something more along the lines of 'it's great this was available when we needed it but it's really safer NOT to have surgery, so of course we should TRY to do it the safer way and if we need surgery again this time, well, it will be available'.    This doesn't really get him fully on your side as a support person (do you have a doula? Might be a really good idea), but it does at least potentially convince him that scheduling a c-section before you even go into labor is NOT the safest route.

Yes, I guess you are right. He is convinced that the first time around we did everything possible and he wants to know that also this time I'm going to do what is necessary to keep myself and the baby safe. He fears that for the sake of a natural birth I might do something stupid and put ourselves at danger.

He is not afraid to stand up for me in the hospital, he asked me to instruct him to watch out for stuff I don't want to be done to me (breaking water, episiotomy, etc) but I guess he just wants to be reassured.

There is only a doula around here...We met her last month. She is a nice woman and it could be helpful but again husband is not convinced. I will discuss more about it.

Yes, he is really afraid. My first labor was very painful but I got over it quickly. He handled it very well at the hospital but for days afterwards he kept saying how traumatic the experience was for him.

[MsBlack]

Seems that your husband is not really thinking here...which is understandable because he is still carrying around his trauma from your first birth.  I say, don't worry right now about the studies, or convincing him rationally.  Instead, approach it from a more personal, emotional point of view.  Let him know you see that he is still hurt from your other birth, and that you respect his feelings and would like to help.  Tell him that no decision needs to be made about this next birth til he feels more ok in general.

That said, 's/he who won't read the evidence doesn't get to rule the decision'.  Not to mention--'s/he who won't be giving birth and living lifelong with the consequences personally, doesn't get to have total decision control'. Give him understanding, love and a bit of time.  But don't let him believe that you will just bow to his fears, no matter how good a reason he has to fear birth now; and don't let him stall too much.  Ask him to make some time to talk things over--and if just hearing him out helps enough then great.  Sometimes people just need to let it out and be heard by accepting, compassionate others--and are then relatively cleared and ready to move ahead.  Sometimes it takes more...but he needs to understand that if he wants to work together toward a mutually agreeable plan, then he really has to read an article or 2 so he knows the facts--NOT just choosing out of avoidance of a trigger, not ruling the choice with bad feelings instead balanced with good evidence, not controlling the decision that after all, will not be enacted upon HIS body. 

Anyway--try to help him with his lingering trauma...which might actually help you both more than you realize now.  Start there, and you may find the rest falls into place.  Here is a link to my essay on vbac/hbac.  Even though the website is generally homebirth oriented, the vbac essay (and links) start with general cesarean, repeat CS, and vbac info/stats--you will find most there is NOT homebirth related, because there is not much research yet on hbac.

good luck!

[dejagerw]

  He is convinced throught his readings (maybe a NYTimes article had a major role) that C-sections are much safer and the reason infant mortality in this century is much lower is because of it.

A major reason infant mortality is down this century is the vast improvements that have been made in keeping premies alive.

[MsBlack]

Oops, forgot to post the link!

http://womynwisespeaks.wordpress.com/informed-choice/hbac/
 

Originally Posted by MsBlack 

Seems that your husband is not really thinking here...which is understandable because he is still carrying around his trauma from your first birth.  I say, don't worry right now about the studies, or convincing him rationally.  Instead, approach it from a more personal, emotional point of view.  Let him know you see that he is still hurt from your other birth, and that you respect his feelings and would like to help.  Tell him that no decision needs to be made about this next birth til he feels more ok in general.

That said, 's/he who won't read the evidence doesn't get to rule the decision'.  Not to mention--'s/he who won't be giving birth and living lifelong with the consequences personally, doesn't get to have total decision control'. Give him understanding, love and a bit of time.  But don't let him believe that you will just bow to his fears, no matter how good a reason he has to fear birth now; and don't let him stall too much.  Ask him to make some time to talk things over--and if just hearing him out helps enough then great.  Sometimes people just need to let it out and be heard by accepting, compassionate others--and are then relatively cleared and ready to move ahead.  Sometimes it takes more...but he needs to understand that if he wants to work together toward a mutually agreeable plan, then he really has to read an article or 2 so he knows the facts--NOT just choosing out of avoidance of a trigger, not ruling the choice with bad feelings instead balanced with good evidence, not controlling the decision that after all, will not be enacted upon HIS body. 

Anyway--try to help him with his lingering trauma...which might actually help you both more than you realize now.  Start there, and you may find the rest falls into place.  Here is a link to my essay on vbac/hbac.  Even though the website is generally homebirth oriented, the vbac essay (and links) start with general cesarean, repeat CS, and vbac info/stats--you will find most there is NOT homebirth related, because there is not much research yet on hbac.

good luck!

[Franci]

Originally Posted by MsBlack 

Anyway--try to help him with his lingering trauma...which might actually help you both more than you realize now.  Start there, and you may find the rest falls into place.  Here is a link to my essay on vbac/hbac.  Even though the website is generally homebirth oriented, the vbac essay (and links) start with general cesarean, repeat CS, and vbac info/stats--you will find most there is NOT homebirth related, because there is not much research yet on hbac.

good luck!

Thanks a lot.

We have been talking more. Funny thing is that he talks about MY birth trauma.

Major problem for me is that here if you had a CS you cannot have a HBAC (even if I could manage to convince my husband) and I'm sure I'll have to deal with an hospital environment not as flexible as in my  previous birth. So, for me it's hard to swallow that I'll have to work through the costraint of this system and I don't have another option.

Good thing is that my DH started reading more into the practical stuff of the pink kit and I'm convinced that this is going to help A LOT in him understanding the birthing process.

[Franci]

Originally Posted by dejagerw 

  He is convinced throught his readings (maybe a NYTimes article had a major role) that C-sections are much safer and the reason infant mortality in this century is much lower is because of it.

A major reason infant mortality is down this century is the vast improvements that have been made in keeping premies alive.

I haven't thought of that! And I'm a preemie myself, my mom lost 5 babies before me.

[starbyfar7]

i recommend having him watch pregnant in america. awesome documentary about the issues of csections/inductions in our country. if that doesn't atleast open his eyes a teensy bit  i dont know what will!