Feeding DS Neocate for the first time, bm has tanked, feeling sad - Page 2

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by mama9 

Hi, your thoughts are much appreciated!! I'll check out that link and I ordered a SNS. I had my thyroid checked many times in the past as I've always suspected I'm hypo. I had it tested again a few months ago but even though the results were normal I feel that I've always had a problem except now it's worse. I haven't had the time to research along with all of the food sensitivity research I've been doing but I did have a kinesiologist tell me around 4 months ago that I had a thyroid issue which originated at the pituitary gland and when he tested my bm on me he found that my body found it very hard to make milk.

:hug Not sure if you've seen them, but there are several thyroid threads kicking around. It's possible that you would find some help on how best to address the secondary hypo-T your kinesiologist suspects in one of them.

Originally Posted by True Blue 

Have you tried giving him goat's milk?  It's closer to breastmilk than cow's milk, and tolerated by many who can't tolerate cow milk.  It might be better than formula in many ways, especially since he is getting some breastmilk in addition.  It would be even better if you could get it fresh and raw, but I would seriously consider trying that first, before cow-based formula, IMHO.  I have a cousin who had to stop bfing and used fresh goat's milk and formula for a very young baby.

I will also point out that there are some goat's milk formulas on the market. I hesitate to suggest ever giving just another animal's milk as their nutrition is not exactly what our own infants require. The casein protein in goat's milk is *more similar* to the casein protein that human's make than the casein protein in cow's milk though so it can be more easily digestible. However, if your child reacts to all bovine type casein, you will still have problems.

Ideally though, I hope your SNS comes in soon and you're able to find a human milk donor through Eats on Feets and then a medical practitioner who is able to assist you in appropriately treating your thyroid issues.

[True Blue]

Originally Posted by lil_miss_understood 

Originally Posted by mama9 

Hi, your thoughts are much appreciated!! I'll check out that link and I ordered a SNS. I had my thyroid checked many times in the past as I've always suspected I'm hypo. I had it tested again a few months ago but even though the results were normal I feel that I've always had a problem except now it's worse. I haven't had the time to research along with all of the food sensitivity research I've been doing but I did have a kinesiologist tell me around 4 months ago that I had a thyroid issue which originated at the pituitary gland and when he tested my bm on me he found that my body found it very hard to make milk.

:hug Not sure if you've seen them, but there are several thyroid threads kicking around. It's possible that you would find some help on how best to address the secondary hypo-T your kinesiologist suspects in one of them.

Originally Posted by True Blue 

Have you tried giving him goat's milk?  It's closer to breastmilk than cow's milk, and tolerated by many who can't tolerate cow milk.  It might be better than formula in many ways, especially since he is getting some breastmilk in addition.  It would be even better if you could get it fresh and raw, but I would seriously consider trying that first, before cow-based formula, IMHO.  I have a cousin who had to stop bfing and used fresh goat's milk and formula for a very young baby.

I will also point out that there are some goat's milk formulas on the market. I hesitate to suggest ever giving just another animal's milk as their nutrition is not exactly what our own infants require. The casein protein in goat's milk is *more similar* to the casein protein that human's make than the casein protein in cow's milk though so it can be more easily digestible. However, if your child reacts to all bovine type casein, you will still have problems.

Ideally though, I hope your SNS comes in soon and you're able to find a human milk donor through Eats on Feets and then a medical practitioner who is able to assist you in appropriately treating your thyroid issues.

I agree generally that human milk would be better, but if he really has this many intolerances...it's not likely she'll find a donor who is willing to TED to donate milk, kwim?  If her baby was younger I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but at 9 mos old....many babies are almost entirely on solids at this point (not mine, but most other babies I know).  Straight goat's milk is easy to obtain at a grocery store, and it wouldn't be his only nourishment since she IS still breastfeeding.  I don't see it as any  different than him eating all kinds of solids at this stage.
 

[mama9]

Originally Posted by True Blue 

Have you tried giving him goat's milk?  It's closer to breastmilk than cow's milk, and tolerated by many who can't tolerate cow milk.  It might be better than formula in many ways, especially since he is getting some breastmilk in addition.  It would be even better if you could get it fresh and raw, but I would seriously consider trying that first, before cow-based formula, IMHO.  I have a cousin who had to stop bfing and used fresh goat's milk and formula for a very young baby.

Hi, I have been thinking about goats milk. The plan is to possibly transition over to cow's or goat's milk (raw preferably) and formula is a transitional plan (in between now and the raw milk). Of course, the main plan is to get my supply up but I'm thinking ahead. I didn't want to jump right in and trail raw milk as from what I understood (I could be way off here) is that the protein in some of the commercial formulas are partially predigested. So if he will react to dairy, I would rather trial him on the formula first and keep going with it (if it passes) whilst I research and seek out a reliable source for raw milk. I would even consider going organic (non-homogenised) pasturised dairy whilst I seek out a reliable source for raw milk.

I have in the past done pendulum testing on DS with different foods and he always failed goat's dairy and passed cow's dairy (direct but not through breast milk), so I was kind of steering away from goat's milk for that reason. I could always trial it too and see which one he does better with (if any) and if he does okay with both kind of equally, I'll go along with goats milk possibly.

[mama9]

:hug Not sure if you've seen them, but there are several thyroid threads kicking around. It's possible that you would find some help on how best to address the secondary hypo-T your kinesiologist suspects in one of them.

Yes, I must get stuck in with those!

I will also point out that there are some goat's milk formulas on the market. I hesitate to suggest ever giving just another animal's milk as their nutrition is not exactly what our own infants require. The casein protein in goat's milk is *more similar* to the casein protein that human's make than the casein protein in cow's milk though so it can be more easily digestible. However, if your child reacts to all bovine type casein, you will still have problems.

Ideally though, I hope your SNS comes in soon and you're able to find a human milk donor through Eats on Feets and then a medical practitioner who is able to assist you in appropriately treating your thyroid issues.

I agree with you totally about not just giving another animal's milk. I've already started to research how I would add ingredients/supps to get a better nutritional balance. The SNS is in the post but I'm not hopeful I'll find a milk donor as I've got a long list of foods that are off my list which I doubt anyone would have followed! At best, I'd find someone who is gluten, soy, and dairy free (he definitely can't do dairy passed through my own bm but maybe he could do it through someone else's - it is possible!). If I can find someone who is gluten free even, that would be a start and I could always trial their bm. I could at least keep searching until I do find a suitable donor and continue from there by replacing the animal milk for human milk. I have never done this before but I feel kind of guilty in case someone more in need would need the donor milk more than we do (for example, a premature baby or a sick newborn). I'm sure though they would get priority but I must go check out the EOF link and I'll let you know what I find!

I hope I can get a thorough and accurate result about my thyroid so that I can get treated because so far the doctors think I'm okay in that department.

[mama9]

I agree generally that human milk would be better, but if he really has this many intolerances...it's not likely she'll find a donor who is willing to TED to donate milk, kwim?  If her baby was younger I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but at 9 mos old....many babies are almost entirely on solids at this point (not mine, but most other babies I know).  Straight goat's milk is easy to obtain at a grocery store, and it wouldn't be his only nourishment since she IS still breastfeeding.  I don't see it as any  different than him eating all kinds of solids at this stage.

I missed this post as I was replying to  lil_miss_understood - yes, I was thinking that with all of his intolerances, it would be quite hard to find someone who could donate TED milk. It took us 9 months of continuous EDing to get my milk to where it is at (almost baseline for DS) but I don't know how much of it is to do with my own reactions getting in the way, but in any case, I'm sure donor milk is liquid gold and that there are younger more needy babes who are lining up for it. However, I'll check it out and at least I can be of help to someone else who is local and may need the hook up.

Right, straight-up animals milk is like having solid foods. I guess it all depends on how much supply I have at any given time. Right now it is up and down but never more than 50% of what it could be (my own guestimate). As I'm not pushing solids and pretty much trying out CLW, and DS is only over the past few days getting into actually swallowing some solids rather than chucking it around (lol), we are still at the EBF stage in our milk-relationship. So as bm would be his ideal main source of nutrition, especially that he is under a year old still (9 mo), I would probably try to tweak the cows/goats milk a bit, for example, add lactose, zinc, whatever it needs to try to balance it out a bit and bring it closer to the human nutritional profile. It's not the end of the world if I don't go there and just use straight-up goat's or cow's milk but I will do some research and I'll post what I find here.

mmmmm.... if he passes our dairy trial!!!

Thank you so much mamas xxx

[mama9]

I'm reading through this right now on Dr.Sears website about comparing formulas. I don't know how old it is but it is very interesting and informative.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by True Blue 

I agree generally that human milk would be better, but if he really has this many intolerances...it's not likely she'll find a donor who is willing to TED to donate milk, kwim?  If her baby was younger I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but at 9 mos old....many babies are almost entirely on solids at this point (not mine, but most other babies I know).  Straight goat's milk is easy to obtain at a grocery store, and it wouldn't be his only nourishment since she IS still breastfeeding.  I don't see it as any  different than him eating all kinds of solids at this stage.
 

Although I agree it is unlikely, it is *possible* that she will find a mother who is already doing an ED. I prefer to err on the side of hope on this matter. My putting it forth is not intended as pressure nor a guilt trip, simply a possibility for her son to continue receiving bm rather than being exposed to formula or other less valuable nutrition sources for his age. I didn't have this resource with ds2 since it has only formed in the last month or 2.

OP, I know of one mama for sure who found donor milk for her 6 month old through EoF who was on a Sears style TED, another who found DF milk and 2 others who got GF milk, so I contend that it is the place to find it, if it is to be found. I am hoping it will be as helpful for you.

[mama9]

I found the EOF UK network on Facebook so I will check it out and see! You never know. I'll find out how it is, for example, if milk is thin on the ground and only given out to special cases or if there is an abundance of donor milk going for older and less needy babies. One major issue is that DS has salicylate issues and amine issues which is improving every day with the help of supps. There are too many fruits and veggies (including some vitamin/mineral supplements, meats, fish, nuts and fats) to mention that he can't tolerate through my milk but again, this is improving all the time. So, even if I found a mama doing a TED, GF, DF, etc, we've got the food chemical sensitivities going against us regarding donors, but like I said, I could trial the donor milk first just as I would any other food. Thanks again for putting this out there.

An update - I weighed DS today and to my surprise, he put on half a kilo in two weeks. I don't know how that happened during a major nursing strike, a cold virus (him and me), my supply dropping, etc. I haven't been supplementing with a lot of formula, nor long enough to make that much of a difference in his weight, I'm sure. The solid food thing has only been a half a week or so and only a teaspoon or two here and there. Could it be my scales are wrong? I just bought them and I weighed him many times, just after a big poop and before he needed feeding, and naked. I also weighed him after a feed to see what the difference was, and again after the next feed, which was immediately after the first weigh in. I know this procedure is not entirely accurate but I was curious. But wow, over a pound in weight in two weeks....if it is true, my mama gut tells me that the difference was ME taking digestive enzymes. I only started them a couple of weeks ago. I started us both on probiotics but that's only been a few days, so not long enough to make a difference. Could it be that I'm digesting my food better and therefore he is digesting his food better?

Oh...and I trialled dairy formula last night. He didn't react as badly as I feared but he was clearly disturbed. I will post more about my thoughts on this trial. Got to settle him right now.

[lil_miss_understood]

possibly you're digesting better so have more energy (fat) and nutrients for milk for him?