FAM is killing my sex life

[InMediasRes]

..along with a few other things, I suppose, but this is NOT HELPING.

My youngest is 20mo, I've had 6 cycles total since her birth, started back up about 13mo. Things seem to be getting mostly back to normal as far as length goes, but I have EWCM from like day 7 all the way until a few days before my next period. DD is still nursing regularly, I usually go a full 6 hours at night without nursing. We have almost no safe days at all, and I HATE HATE HATE condoms.

I did two cycles temping, then this last one I didn't do it because there was so much sleep disturbance from my DD that I couldn't ever get anything accurate. Even when I do temp, the temps don't line up at all with my CM - I have EW well beyond the temp peak. My CP also is all over the place and doesn't really line up with anything.

We absolutely do not want any more children right now. I've got two and I am emotionally tapped out and, for the moment, it's all my relationship with DH can handle too. We are being extra extra careful, which essentially means that we are DTD about once every 3 weeks at this point, when I would much prefer every day or every other day. My libido is crazy high these days (DH is not keeping up with me, which is part of the problem).

He feels put off by the fact that I don't want to do BCP, I feel put off by the fact that he won't trust this method, although I don't know why he would since we can't ever get anything reliable out of it and we already have two unplanned kids from being misinformed (and naive, I suppose).

I am looking into hypothyroidism, which TCOYF says is a possibility with really long mucus cycles, but I also have very low BBT, around 96 F at the beginning of my cycles. I have no other symptoms though.

I'm hoping someone more experienced can help me out here.

[Funny Face]

Wish I could help but mostly here to offer a :hug.

We've done FAM for the last 5.5 years and had 3 out of 4 surprise pregnancies. I had really long cycles with most of the days EWCM and it was maddening. I was vigilant, methodical... obsessed with my signals and charting and we still got pregnant about every 12 months. 

After my last pregnancy I started having O pain and that made my life sooooo much easier, I at least knew when we were past our fertile period... and we still go pregnant not having had sex within 7 days before I O'd.  Ds was just 14 months. 

We'd basically have sex the day my period ended or twice within that 24 hours and not again until a week after I O'd- three weeks later. Sucked.

We just got a V because it just didn't work for us and we tried everything we could think of. I can't take hormonal BC, we absolutely hate condoms and the withdrawal didn't work for us as I'm currently pregnant.

So I feel your frustration!

[InMediasRes]

So glad someone else has had the same problem. We have considered vasectomy, but we're not sure we're done yet. I feel tapped out now, but I'm 25 and DH is 28. We feel like we've got a lot of life left and might have room for someone else later.

I don't really know what to do about it. I tried a round of the mini-pill and it made me crazy. I know how fertile I am and doing JUST BCP and nothing else scares me. And I can't do that anyway since DD is nursing...

Sigh.

[Eeyore35]

What about an IUD? or another barrier method during your fertile time? I don't really recommend spermicide, It is easy, but i got pregnant using it. I hear ya on hating condoms...so do I.

If you don't want any hormones, there is an IUD without them. I don't need brith control, but if I did, I think that's what I'd do.

[elisheva]

Thank you for posting about this. I, too, am currently pregnant after thinking my fertile days had passed three days after the EWCM stopped. When I woke up the next morning to EWCM, I knew I was in trouble. :) 

I'm done after 4 kids, however, and what we're going to do for birth control is a constant topic (though we're having extra sex now to make up for the sex we won't be having after this baby is born!). For religious reasons, condoms and vasectomy are out for us. We've been using a diaphragm with spermicidal foam but they aren't making diaphragms available in Canada any longer and I've subsequently read that there are parabens in most spermicidal gels or foams.

Options we are considering:

IUD - we are both uncomfortable with the idea of an IUD as it's my understanding that it just doesn't allow a fertilized egg to implant. Without getting into what exactly a fertilized egg means/doesn't mean, the idea makes me uncomfortable. If anyone can tell me that an IUD works differently, I'm all ears. I'm assuming you can't use an IUD with hormones during breastfeeding?

BCP - was totally against this, but I'm reconsidering. I wouldn't take the mini-pill so I'd need to find something to use while bfding, but it is a serious contender for after that. 

Ugh. OP, I feel for all of us. My TSH was tested on Friday and I'm waiting for the results but my "symptoms" (random EWCM throughout my cycle and even now that I'm pregnant and low BBT during period - 96.7 ish - sound similar).

[Toolip]

IUD - we are both uncomfortable with the idea of an IUD as it's my understanding that it just doesn't allow a fertilized egg to implant. Without getting into what exactly a fertilized egg means/doesn't mean, the idea makes me uncomfortable. If anyone can tell me that an IUD works differently, I'm all ears. I'm assuming you can't use an IUD with hormones during breastfeeding?

the copper in the iud is toxic to sperm, so it is also has a spermicide effect.
 

[copper.kettle]

Just reiterating what toolip said.  Preventing implantation is NOT what makes the IUD effective, this is a common misunderstanding.  It is spermicidal.  Hope that helps!

[elisheva]

Well, the copper rules it out anyway. My ears react to just about any metal besides gold I can only imagine placing metal inside my body :( Thanks for clarifying!
 

Originally Posted by Toolip 

IUD - we are both uncomfortable with the idea of an IUD as it's my understanding that it just doesn't allow a fertilized egg to implant. Without getting into what exactly a fertilized egg means/doesn't mean, the idea makes me uncomfortable. If anyone can tell me that an IUD works differently, I'm all ears. I'm assuming you can't use an IUD with hormones during breastfeeding?

the copper in the iud is toxic to sperm, so it is also has a spermicide effect.
 

[GoBecGo]

the body is supposed to react to the copper, the extra killer cells in the uterus in inflammation reaction to the copper is what kills the sperm off.  It basically sets up an inflammatory response (like that of a healing wound) which is very inhospitable to foreign matter, be it sperm or the IUD itself.

The mirena contains no copper, releases a very low dose of progestogen which is the same as the minipill (but only 10% of the amount makes it into your bloodstream with the mirena vs the minipill.  It usually prevents ovulation and prevents the thickening of the uterine lining, and can thicken cm to make it hard for sperm to swim through.

I had mirena after dd1 and have a copper iud now.  For us they are The Answer.  Reversible, safe (especially copper which has been used for a long long time now) and suitable for us.

[InMediasRes]

I'm just not sure on the IUD. I've heard so many horror stories, and unless I knew that it was completely impossible for an egg to fertilize and get knocked out of there, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I also have problems with metal in my ears, so I don't think the copper one would work for me.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by InMediasRes 

I'm just not sure on the IUD. I've heard so many horror stories, and unless I knew that it was completely impossible for an egg to fertilize and get knocked out of there, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I also have problems with metal in my ears, so I don't think the copper one would work for me.

Respectfully, there is no way to know that a fertilised egg isn't going to happen and not make it to pregnancy with ANY method, including FAM (since fertilisation often occurs with either very old egg or very old sperm with FAM oopsies that significantly increases the chance of loss).  

[InMediasRes]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

Originally Posted by InMediasRes 

I'm just not sure on the IUD. I've heard so many horror stories, and unless I knew that it was completely impossible for an egg to fertilize and get knocked out of there, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I also have problems with metal in my ears, so I don't think the copper one would work for me.

Respectfully, there is no way to know that a fertilised egg isn't going to happen and not make it to pregnancy with ANY method, including FAM (since fertilisation often occurs with either very old egg or very old sperm with FAM oopsies that significantly increases the chance of loss).  

Yes, but with FAM, nothing is being done to actively prevent an egg from implanting and becoming a viable pregnancy. I realize that this is somewhat of a semantics/political/moral issue and that not everyone feels the same way, but I personally don't like the idea of an otherwise normal pregnancy being prevented in any way other than not being fertilized in the first place.

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by InMediasRes 

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

Originally Posted by InMediasRes 

I'm just not sure on the IUD. I've heard so many horror stories, and unless I knew that it was completely impossible for an egg to fertilize and get knocked out of there, I wouldn't be comfortable with it. I also have problems with metal in my ears, so I don't think the copper one would work for me.

Respectfully, there is no way to know that a fertilised egg isn't going to happen and not make it to pregnancy with ANY method, including FAM (since fertilisation often occurs with either very old egg or very old sperm with FAM oopsies that significantly increases the chance of loss).  

Yes, but with FAM, nothing is being done to actively prevent an egg from implanting and becoming a viable pregnancy. I realize that this is somewhat of a semantics/political/moral issue and that not everyone feels the same way, but I personally don't like the idea of an otherwise normal pregnancy being prevented in any way other than not being fertilized in the first place.

Yes, you're right, it must be a semantics problem.  I have had 2 losses using FAM and both times i felt deep regret that it was very likely my delaying conception so that it was possible but unlikely to result in a successful implantation and pregnancy.  I suppose though, i have also had 2 other losses, when actively ttc, and once it was H1N1, once unexplained.  I guess for me LOTS of things, many/most totally unrelated to contraceptive intent, can interfere in the way you describe.  I totally get that for some people the coil seems like a more obvious factor and to be avoided though.

[goldenwillow]

Man... I can't stand condoms either and IUD's they are out of the question due to my body purging them (three of 'em prior to DS).  Birth control pills are a no go... still nursing and honestly... they make me crazy! 

Been reading on vas and tubal options... they don't seem any better! 

The mere thought of getting pregnant again is what is killing our sex life (for me.. DH wouldn't mind more) but that is seeming to be better these days.  Trying to chart my cycle now since it just decided to grace me with it's presence (DS is 16 months). 

I am still not convinced on the charting/temp way of going about it. 

Sigh...

[ameliabedelia]

I use OPT along with charting mucous and I find it makes things a lot clearer.  I get them off the internet for between 55-80 cents each.  Obviously, just because you are having EWCM your entire cycle, doesn't mean you are fertile that whole time.   I start using the OPT around day 10 and take one test a day until I get a positive result  (then I take it for an additional 2-3 days to make sure it is negative again).  Then I know that I'm infertile again by 4-5 days after the + OPK test (from + OPK to O is 1-2 days) and then fertility ends 2-3 days after O.

I would also suggest reading Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition since having EWCM in the luteal phase is not "normal" and could mean a nutritional deficiency or hypothyroidism or something. 

[lolablitz]

I'm 32 weeks preg w our 2nd and have been trying to figure out what we're going to do too and stumbled on this thread. I'm also uncomfortable with BCM that don't allow the fertilized egg to implant (abortifacients). I just learned today that spermicides also have low-level abortifacient agents in them, so they're out for us. All IUDs -hormonal and copper- are abortifacient - and much more so than BCP (which are also abortifacient). Sooooo.... we're super fertile and I don't think DH will be on board with NFP again since that's where our happy surprise came from :) I think we'll just stick to condoms until we decide we're done. I'm 30 and DH is 27, so that might not be too too far off. Oh and when we're ready, he wants to get a vasectomy. Everything I've read seems to reiterate that they are the safest, most reliable long-term solution to avoiding pregnancy. I still need to come to terms with this and my faith though, but that's a whole 'nother story :)

[Mom2SammyJoe]

What about a diaphragm? Neither or us can feel it while DTD, and it can be inserted hours before the act rather than right in the middle of things like condom usage. I chart, and we use the D on fertile or questionable days. There are even ways to make natural spermicide with aloe vera and lemon juice. I am with you on the abortifacient properties of an IUD or BCP. While that is not their main mechanism of action, it is one listed. (I learned this by reading the fine print in the BCP package. I didn't know, and I was a nurse at an OB-GYN office.) No one will say the methods are abortifacients, but FOR ME, that is what preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg is.

Taken from:
http://www.mirena-us.com/faqs/index.jsp#25

 

"Mirena slowly releases very small amounts of the hormone levonorgestrel directly into your uterus.

There is no single explanation for how Mirena works. Mirena may:

• Thicken cervical mucus to prevent sperm from entering your uterus
• Inhibit sperm from reaching or fertilizing your egg
• Make the lining of your uterus thin

Mirena may stop the release of your egg from your ovary, but this is not the way it works in most cases. Most likely the above actions work together to prevent pregnancy. Like other forms of birth control, Mirena is not 100% effective."

A thin uterine lining does not usually allow for successful implantation of a fertilized egg. I don't know if this info clarifies any of the about comments, but this is what the company says regarding their product. Like someone else says, it's semantics.

I hope you find the right BC for your family. I understand having your hands full with two, but not being sure if this is it. And I envy your libido!

[GoBecGo]

Ah!  This was a "lightbulb" post for me Mommy2SammyJo!  I always think of pregnancy beginning at implantation and not conception (since conception isn't an absolute or diagnosable unless implantation also occurs)!  Which is why for me an abortifacient has to actually disrupt a pregnancy, not just prevent implantation.  I think that's why medical staff don't consider BCP, IUD etc. as abortifacient, because pregnancy has to be established for it to be aborted, so from the medical standpoint it's prevention rather than disruption.

I totally get it now!  Of course if conception is the starting point in one's belief these things aren't an option at all! I feel like a total thickie for not getting it until now!!!  :)

I would really urge people to look at the Persona Monitor.  It makes FAM easier (no temping or anything), more scientific (which appeals to men who don't trust women's intuition) and is really almost as reliable as condoms (96% i believe).

[Oubli]

Copper IUD is toxic to not just sperm but it's toxic to eggs as well. By the time the egg and sperm make it to the fallopian tube (where fertilization is suppose to take place) they are BOTH incapable of fertilization because of the high amounts of copper in the luminal fluid in the uterus and tubes.

The experiment (I've done this and so should anyone wanting an copper IUD) - Take one REAL copper penny (1946–1962 for 95% copper) place in petri dish with a contribution from your significant other (my husband happily participated) and look at underneath with one cheap microscope (childnre's microscopes from Toys'R'Us are strong enough to see sperm). If you notice that after a couple of hours - none of the sperm are moving!

http://iud-divas.livejournal.com/

IUD Divas for more info.

Also back in the 70's when copper IUDs first came out - they were not using enough copper. Hence fertilized eggs were found in rabbit experiments. It is now known that to prevent fertilized eggs a copper IUD must have at least 300mm square of exposed copper! The onyl copper IUD now availble in the US has 380 mm square of exposed copper.

BTW, I love my copper IUD, the high sex drive it allows me and being worry free about pregnancy. I think many women would be much happier with the birth control if they had easy access to the copper IUD.

[jodi5]

I agree the monitor is really helpful and can make you more confident about what is happening.  You can also use the clear blue fertility monitor made by the same company as Persona and follow the algorithm by Marquette.  I combine temping with Marquette and so far think it is really helpful.

http://nfp.marquette.edu/

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

Ah!  This was a "lightbulb" post for me Mommy2SammyJo!  I always think of pregnancy beginning at implantation and not conception (since conception isn't an absolute or diagnosable unless implantation also occurs)!  Which is why for me an abortifacient has to actually disrupt a pregnancy, not just prevent implantation.  I think that's why medical staff don't consider BCP, IUD etc. as abortifacient, because pregnancy has to be established for it to be aborted, so from the medical standpoint it's prevention rather than disruption.

I totally get it now!  Of course if conception is the starting point in one's belief these things aren't an option at all! I feel like a total thickie for not getting it until now!!!  :)

I would really urge people to look at the Persona Monitor.  It makes FAM easier (no temping or anything), more scientific (which appeals to men who don't trust women's intuition) and is really almost as reliable as condoms (96% i believe).