Pelvic Floor Party: Kegels are NOT invited - Page 2

[cyclamen]

While I was cleaning my kitchen I thought some more about this.

1.  The resting squat and Bowman's squat must be two parts of a full range of squatting motion.

2.  Working in a squatting position (even the resting one) is going to stretch and strengthen your glutes and hip flexors because you have to lean forward or sit more upright to work.  You can't stay curled in on yourself.  You can't use your hands to keep your body leaning on your knees.  I definitely feel stretch in my hip flexors when I squat to chop veggies on the floor, and my tailbone stretches back and lifts up when I sweep or lean forward to chop.  I must be moving more towards Bowman's squat when I do these things.

3.  Doing Bowman's squat is an important step in gaining full range of squatting motion.

4.  But if you cannot do Bowman's squat (as an everyday "working" squat vs. as a PT type posture corrective exercise with props), could it be acceptable to start working in a resting squat to increase your range of motion?  It probably depends on if you can squat without tucking your tailbone in, or not.

5.  But, I could not squat without tucking my tailbone in right after I gave birth.  (In fact, taht is why I did not squat duing pregnancy.  I could feel that the tailbone tucked squat was putting pressure on my pelvic organs.)  I only became able to squat (in the resting squat) with my tailbone up and down, after doing loadbearing squats.  At first, with my tailbone tucked, if I was carrying a load (or even not carrying a load), I felt as though I would topple over.  So I would only stay down a moment.  Then, as my glutes increased in strength, I stopped falling over.  And my tailbone began to untuck.  My "proper" squat depth increased.  My guess is this must be the more "dangerous" method of increasing range of motion vs Bowman's squat.  Hmmm.  I will assume that I got lucky or that I was inadvertently doing something correctly, but don't know what it is.

6.  Is squatting in a resting squat preferable to sitting in a chair?  It must be preferable to slouching on the sacrum.  But if you can only squat with the tailbone tucked and the whole spine curled, it must not be preferable to sitting properly, with the tailbone pulled back correctly.

[AlaaJ]

Hi everyone! I finally got around to e-mailing Katy Bowman personally to ask her about our squatting quandaries. She suggested that we list our questions specifically -- she'll be happy to reply as soon as she gets the chance. Btw, she also noted that: "The squat-kegel thing is way oversimplified -- the mechanics are much more complex and have to do a lot with gait patterns, whole body alignment, etc."

Here is one question: How effective is the "tailbone-in" squat for the pelvic floor, seeing that it seems to come so naturally to many people? (More naturally than the tailbone-out squat, anyway).

Cyclamen, your post above has three or 4 questions we could add.  

[A_Random_Phrase]

That's great! My question was the same as yours. Since it comes so naturally, it seems that it should have some health benefits. Also, how does one get to the point of not being able to squat like she says to doing it? The steps.

[AlaaJ]

A Random Phrase, I think the answer to your question about steps towards squatting is here. Is that what you are looking for?

Question:

Vaginal varicose veins (specifically those developed during pregnancy): where does squatting fit in, if at all?

Question:

My aunt saw me squat down to get something from the fridge's lower drawer and she squalled at me that, because I've given birth before, my pelvis area has already opened and is limber, no need for extra squatting to help prepare for delivery. She said too much squatting causes pre term birth. Is there any truth to that? Do first time mothers need to squat for birth prep moreso than mothers who've given birth before? 

-----

Anyone been squatting for a while now and notice anything new? All I've noticed is that it's a comfortable position to be in now and it's a lot easier to do (so long as it's less than 10 minutes -- then I start getting kind of achy and have to stand up for a few minutes before squatting again).

[cyclamen]

AlaaJ, thanks for emailing Katy.  I was thinking of doing that but have been so busy.  I look forward to hearing more of what she has to say. 

I notice that squatting in the tailbone out squat, I feel like something is "happening" - muscles working etc - if it's loadbearing - ie, I do it while my daughter naps on my back.  It seems my muscles just don't want to work hard enough without a weight.  I have been working on her techniques for stretching and doing the tailbone out squat and I finally am beginning to feel stretching in my hamstrings.  Before I never could even get them to feel the stretch, that's how stiff I was.  It's awesome!  I hope someday I'll be able to get my heels to the floor.

[A_Random_Phrase]

Alaaj, That sort of answers it. I really wanted more detailed steps but, perhaps, if I did those exercises regularly I'd be able to squat like she says is the best way to do it. It seems like she said she had a video that gave more details. Perhaps I'd need that to really grasp it.

[Mammamia33]

Hi Mamas ~  I am new to the forum, but not new to motherhood ;)  although I've only been a Mama for about 6 years now!

I had a fourth degree tear with my third baby (born 2 mths ago - he presented posterior) and as a result, I'm dealing with gas which leaks through my vagina (there's a fine "how do you do" and "nice to meet you" entry!)

I was examined by my midwife at my postpartum check up 2 weeks ago and she gave me a digital exam (through the anus - also a fine "how do you do" by the way) - and determined there was no fistula. (which I think I may need a second opinion on that)

At any rate - I've been doing what i THINK are kegels, and achieving no real noticeable results. As long as these squats won't hurt, I'd like to try. I don't want to get a repair surgery because we want at least one more child in the near future.

Has anyone been in my situation and found non-surgical treatments that have helped them? Thank you for reading!

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by Mammamia33 

Hi Mamas ~  I am new to the forum, but not new to motherhood ;)  although I've only been a Mama for about 6 years now!

I had a fourth degree tear with my third baby (born 2 mths ago - he presented posterior) and as a result, I'm dealing with gas which leaks through my vagina (there's a fine "how do you do" and "nice to meet you" entry!)

I was examined by my midwife at my postpartum check up 2 weeks ago and she gave me a digital exam (through the anus - also a fine "how do you do" by the way) - and determined there was no fistula. (which I think I may need a second opinion on that)

At any rate - I've been doing what i THINK are kegels, and achieving no real noticeable results. As long as these squats won't hurt, I'd like to try. I don't want to get a repair surgery because we want at least one more child in the near future.

Has anyone been in my situation and found non-surgical treatments that have helped them? Thank you for reading!

For minor prolapses people have really good results with Mayan Abdominal massage (googling with lead to lots of information) and acupuncture can help too. I did have the surgery ( 3 weeks post surgery) and would be happy to talk about with you.

I agree that Kegals can be really ineffective. I had REALLY been consistant at doing kegals after the birth of my kids and was shocked after I started physical therapy for my pelvic floor that I hadn't been doing them right. I was told by my doctor and PT person that if you have more severe prolapses due to pelvic floor damages squats can make the prolapses worse. This is because with weaken pelvic floor muscles and protuding organs it can be harder isolate the muscles that need strengthening. I did PT work for 3 months prior to the surgery and even with extensive therapy the prolapses were very much impeding muscle strenghening. Can't wait to start PT again now that I have the surgery done.

[CookAMH]

Subbing...I read this post months ago in preparation for my VBAC (which I achieved two weeks ago ) and I am eager to rehab my pelvic floor and correct years of tucking my tailbone once I'm healed from a few 2nd degree tears. 

[Ella-6]

Yesterday, I perused this forum Healing Birth Trauma, because I'm really ready to do that now. It was only been about a week that I have truly accepted my birth experience: compound presentation, long painful labour, manual removal of placenta etc...

Now that the emotional healing has taken place, I've been able to open up to the mental challenge of committing to the practices that will enable full physical healing. So, I started doing Kegels everyday, but... (funnily enough) intuitively wanted to strengthen my glutes too.

Yay for finding this thread!

Now it all makes sense. I love how this approach takes in a bigger picture of all the connected areas to the pelvic floor. It feels so good to be able to move forward and reclaim my health. Wishing everyone the best of success!

[AndtheStars]

Stumbled across this and wondered if anyone had asked Katy the questions, and if so what was the response?  I looked at all the pictures with interest.  I have always been able to squat to the floor with my heels flat.  Co-workers at an old job of mine used to laugh because I was always "Squatting by the bottom drawer of the filing cabinet like an old asian lady"  So since this is something that I do naturally and easily, is it having any effect?  I'm wondering if Katy clarified any of the positioning questions. 

[emthom]

I found the katysays blog during my recent pregnancy and had tried to start squatting more but if I try to do it for any length of time my feet start to fall asleep. And once I get up out of the squat my knees and lower legs are kind of sore. Plus it was hard to do with a pregnanty belly. Getting ready to TTC soon though and I want to make sure to start squatting now so I'm good at it by the time my belly gets big again. Does anyone else have problems with their legs/feet falling asleep or sore knees? Does this mean I'm doing it wrong? Thanks!

[dakipode]

I noticed this thread is sort of old but I felt compelled to discuss the pure physics of the bodily structure in a squat. People seem to think there is something magical about "the right way to squat" but in truth the physics of a squat have to do with available range of motion at the ankles, knees and hips, i.e. flexibility AND the proportions of your lower leg to your thigh to your torso and its center of mass (which obviously changes when pregnant). Having your center of mass more forward should allow you to stick your butt out more, it's all about maintaining your center of mass over your base, i.e. your feet. The challenge of this in a squat is front to back, not side to side.

The issue of having your feet turned out or not has to do with the lever length of thighs to lower leg and torso. If you look at a person squatting from the side you'll be able to see this: if their feet are pointing straight forward their butt will have to go further back if their thighs are very long in comparison to their lower leg and torso, most likely this will push the center of mass back past the heels and that's why people topple over backwards. If they turn their feet out a bit the thighs will travel forward but also sideways and the butt will not stick out as much, thus maintaining the center of mass over the base.

As to lordosis in end range of motion of a squat: I don't know of anyone who has that much hipflexion that they can avoid lordosis, i.e. letting the tailbone tuck in at the end (when sitting all the way down with your butt on your heels) is normal.

Lastly, to address the original question of whether squats are effective in rebuilding? I haven't specifically studied that. I can't say whether it is essential for everybody to be able to squat either. It makes sense to me that it sort of lines everything up to give birth from an anatomical point of view.