Peanuts at church - Page 2

[mbbinsc]

I am glad that this thread is getting back to the OP request for help with her church. 

We were very active in our church prior to my DDs food allergies.  Two months after we had been to the ER due to exposure to peanut butter my older DS had Vacation Bible school.  They had lunch with family after the morning activity.  I came with DD in tow to be with DS.  We could not stay in the room due to the lunch menu being self made PBJs.  That started my quest to get my church to be more understanding.  It did not happen so we tried a different church which had a preschool associated with it.  They were on top of the food allergies with all caregivers trained in use of epipen and food allergy action plans in place.  My DH was not happy there and since i still stayed with DD, it was OK with me to try to go back to our old church.  Well in the couple years that we were away, they started a preschool.  Now all the caregivers are trained.  My DD went to vacation bible school, where they had 4 epipen carrying kids in her class.  The snack menu was safe for all.

Church is very important to our family but we still don't participate like before.  We have to miss dinner activity due to the menu (gotta to love a good shrimp boil!).  Like PP, I have been more isolated in order to keep DD safe.  But I can tell you I am a much more spiritual person and pray so much more due to DD's food allergies.  Every bite she takes.

[mama1803]

To CSAs the mother of a child with an anaphalytic allergy to peanuts I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said!

[lil_miss_understood]

Bolding mine. As you see, sbgrace is the mother whose child was given Chex mix with nuts picked out. As you can also see, she says she never left him alone again until he was old enough to understand his allergies.

I will also point out that the OP is concerned about the children from the SS "sharing" their nut-laden SS snack with her toddler while her back is turned for a second, which is very possible. She is not asking that people not eat nuts before coming. She's not even assuming that there won't be peanut butter on every surface from people eating PB&J sandwiches on the way to church. She is not "abandoning" her nut-allergic child to "fend for herself", or even with the assistance of an adult who does- or does not- get it, as some posters seem to think. The fact of the matter is that people try to feed our children while our back is turned. I can understand how it would be somewhat reassuring to know that if she is distracted for 2 seconds and grabs food from another child or "finds" a piece of food on the floor that it *probably* doesn't contain nuts (although it still might, the chances would be lower, even if only a little). She is not asking this of strangers at the mall. She is asking this of people in her community who presumably actually give a crap about her child.

I don't believe that "nut free zones" create false security. I'm pretty sure that every parent (whether step, adoptive, bio or whatever) whose child has a severe nut allergy is perfectly aware of the less than 100% compliance of people who don't "get it" and/or don't have to live it every day.

I think that she is overwhelmed with this new diagnosis and is asking for assistance on how best to deal with it in this particular public setting, rather than attacks on her character and parenting for being concerned for the well being of her child. And she certainly doesn't seem at all angry to me.

:hug OP I do not have a child with an anaphylactic allergy, but I might try to meet with the pastor to discuss this issue in person. I might try asking for an announcement in the newsletter that a very young member of the congregation has been diagnosed with a life threatening allergy to peanuts, as well as requesting that no peanut/nut snacks be served in the SS for the time being. I think I would also make it clear to the pastor that you assume full responsibility for your child's well-being but you would appreciate his, and the church's, assistance in your attempts to keep your child safe and you are concerned about the children from the SS sharing their snacks with your toddler. I might also discuss the importance of hand washing before and after snacks, even if they *seem* to be "safe" snacks. And I might also present them with a list of appropriate snacks, if they are willing to work with you on this matter.

I hope that there is a satisfactory resolution for you.

Originally Posted by sbgrace 

We went everywhere with my son until I was sure that he was old enough to understand not to eat anything anyone gave him and not to put his hands in his mouth. I can't see leaving a child personally unless I knew the SS teacher, etc. knew how and when to use an epi pen (without hesitation).

This is partly because I left once and came back to my son sitting with a plate of "chex mix" they told him had no nuts (they knew of his allergy and had been told no food without my permission). The other kids had nuts in their mixes. I asked. They picked out the nuts. I never left him alone again until he was much older.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask a church not to serve peanut/tree nut products in class. Why do kids need snacks at church anyway--let alone candy bars? However, I do think there is always risk because any given child may have just finished a pb sandwich in the car on the way to church.

[changingseasons]

So since the child is not my bio-child, I can't understand?  I swear the bias against foster/step/adoptive moms is unreal.

Whoa. I certainly can't speak for the pp, but I read her post to mean that people caring for your child don't understand- meaning a nursery/daycare worker.

I do absolutely agree that education is key, but I think by putting a nut-free policy in place educating staff on what that means is important to do together. By just educating and still serving products with nuts, you WILL have issues with cross-contamination. I guarantee you that every week, at least one kid is going to go touch a toy (or the doorknob, or something) after eating their candy bar, before washing their hands. If you educate AND go nut-free, then you only have a possibility of cross-contamination. Really, REALLY big difference in my world, where my child is sensitive enough that touching a toy, hours after it was touched with allergen-coated fingers, will cause hives.

[changingseasons]

perfect example is the chex mix.  That is the stuff you deal with all the time. According to the poster the adults knew the child had a peanut allergy but they still thought it was OK to pick out the nuts.  And the poster had no qualms about leaving her child. I see this with many moms.  They have no problem letting their child play in nut free play area, give them free reign in nut free classrooms/buildings with out doing any due diligence. Then they are shock when their child suddenly has as a severe reaction and they are not prepared.

Ummmm.... can I just point out that if this had been a nut-free area, there wouldn't have BEEN any nuts to pick out? And also that the people caring for her children HAD been educated about the nut allergy, and still didn't get it- which is EXACTLY the situation that would have been avoided had there been a nut-free rule. You can't just educate, or just ban things. They work best if done together.

Can a nut ban help limit exposure? Of course but I still don't agree with it. It is a false sense of security.

So are you saying that the nut ban at your child's school gives you a sense of security, even though your child has had allergic reactions there? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your answer will be, "of course not! I know better than to think that my child is 100% safe anywhere without appropriate supervision and education!" So why then, would you just assume that the rest of the allergy community would be so stupid or naive to assume their child is 100% safe with a nut ban? Maybe you've seen examples of that type of careless attitude, but I can ASSURE you that is a small minority of allergy moms, if any. I've certainly never met one who assumed that their child couldn't have an allergic reaction in a nut-free area.

[love2mother]

Moderators- I agree, please do not remove this post, as with the exception of ONE person, every one has made some really valid and important points here which support the OP! It's too bad  the thread has come to this. 

OP- if you would like to send me a private message, I would be happy to share with you a tactfully written letter you could submit to your church regarding peanut allergy/classroom food safety. 

Edited by love2mother - 12/4/10 at 2:25pm

[HollyBearsMom]

I think I have more than explained why I don't agree with them.  I have also said I am not against them.  And as I stated before I feel that it is a knee jerk reaction parents have when their child is first diagnosed.  If as much energy was put into education, proper food handling and good hygiene practices a nut ban would be considerably more effective and if fact wouldn't even be necessary.

A child who can not protect themselves ,such as a toddler, will not necessarily be any safer because nuts are banned in a particular room or building. I have witnessed it myself on numerous occasions.

Do I fight against a nut ban? No, but I have never asked for one either and I don't sign petitions to get a nut ban instituted.  I choose instead to educate those around me and who are involved in our lives and most importantly educate my child. By the age of 2-2.5 she knew to say no to food not given to her by family and/or bring it me to me first.

Surprisingly its the children that "get it" more often than the adults. I go into my child's classroom at that the start of each year and talk about what a peanut allergy means. I use a hands on approach and we practice how wash our hands, how to clean a table, talk about sharing. For the younger set Arthur's "Binky Goes Nuts" s really great.

I have evidenced these type of sessions being so much more effective than a ban.  I actually had one mom tell me that her child requested keeping wipes in the car.  It seems that she always ate peanut butter toast on the way to school and was worried that it would still be on her hands when she got to school. The same mom said "it never occurred to her" and frankly she didn't think the ban really meant that much, it was more a CYA for the school. She said she never even checked package ingredients when she sent snack/treats to school.  

But if it makes you feel better to have nuts banned everywhere have it. And I still wont agree.

[sbgrace]

**I've removed a number of posts from this thread. I think this is an important issue and hope this thread can remain on the board. Please make sure your posts remain within the User Agreement. Report problem posts and please avoid taking direct issue with another member in your posts. Thank you!**

[sbgrace]

I wanted to clarify something. First, I'm the chex mix mom and not the OP. My son had not had his first anaphylaxis at that point or I'm sure my paranoid self would never have left the room. However, he did have allergies and the church had been told no food except what I approved or brought in directly. They had been working within that for years so I trusted them. He actually didn't eat the mix because he at that point did have some understanding. However, I felt it was still risky as the adults had told him when he asked that he had a nut free mix. My son is a cautious kid and older and I completely trust him now not to eat anything someone gives him. The average young child though I just can't see leaving when you're dealing with anaphylaxis. Of course my son was 5.5 I think when he had his first anaphylaxis. I gave him the food that had the trace because I trusted the person who made it...learned from that too...thankfully not at the price of my son's life. I did not leave him alone without a sitter that I knew both knew how and when to give an epi without any hesitation. Even then, only at my home that I knew was nut free.

Most kids who die of anaphylaxis will die in a care setting (schools most commonly...) and they will die because those in charge delayed epi administration. I agree education is important.

I think the take home to that is that if your child is unfortunate enough to have this type of allergy you have to make sure those carrying for that child are very aware of signs of anaphylaxis and the need to give the epi pen (properly) and call 911 right away.

Another issue is that very young children (under five or so especially) aren't going to have the awareness necessary to tell someone they are having weird symptoms.

My point for the OP is that I would definitely talk to those in charge about your child and I would anticipate that they would not want to have peanuts in the setting. I can't imagine anyone would want to unnecessarily risk a child dying and, to me, peanut butter cups are an entirely unnecessary risk. I wouldn't, though, leave my young anaphylactic child anyway. Any child could walk in with peanut residue and I would not expect those caring for my child to be able to recognize an event and respond appropriately within time. That's still a fear of mine as my child ages and does more things independently like scouts. It scares me. He might not be able to do his own epi pen after all!

[MrsJewelsRae]

Thank you!  (and thanks especially to lil miss understood!).  I had not realized this thread had taken off, our dog was hit by a car last week and died :(  so I have been really distracted.

Anyhow, to the posters who suggested that a peanut free policy creates a false sense of security- I can guarantee you that a mom of an anaphylactic allergic child never feels secure, tyvm.  I am not ignorant on this and have done a lot of research, this is not about me being able to drop my kid off and leave his well being completely in the hands of another person so I can go on my merry way.  It's like wearing a seat-belt- it makes driving a little safer, you don't expect it will protect you from getting into an accident, but you wear one because it lowers your risk of injury if there is an accident.  It's about lowering his RISK!  The more he is exposed to his allergens the worse they become.  I know a child who is so allergic to peanuts now that it is AIRBORNE!!! I cannot risk that for my son.  And btw, not that you cared to read my post carefully, but I am a homeschool mother, I support peanut bans in schools, or specific classes with peanut allergic children, but I will not send mine to one- I cannot trust every child and every parent (although we chose to homeschool long before knowing about the allergy, the allergy would have had us choosing to homeschool for his safety).   I supported peanut bans in schools 10 years ago before I even HAD kids, because it was a no-brainer.  It means a child can go to school and be just that little bit safer.  Obviously, he still needs to be taught not to ever accept food from another child, not to take food w/o confirming the person knows he is deathly allergic.  My child is 2, he doesn't even talk yet, he cannot yet grasp the concept of not accepting candy from other kids.  And I never ONCE suggested that I was angry.  In fact, I asked for help in being POLITE!!  BTW, the peanut laden treats that the kids are getting are like those you would give out at Halloween, each child gets one at the end of SS, but some kids rip into them right away.  I am not asking for much when I request that these treats be kept to the variety of peanut free stuff which is easily available!  Seriously, it's not going to kill you to refrain from eating peanut butter for an hour and a half once a week!  Thankfully, most of my fellow brothers and sisters at church were very receptive and supportive.

So, I sent a little email out to the 3 elders of our church and they are going to make an announcement at church.  I wanted to clarify, I do not leave my child unattended at all, I do watch him almost hawk like, but in a crowded room all it takes is my back being turned for a few seconds for a kid to share a p/b treat with him!  Last week I literally turned my back for a few seconds to grab a Kleenex from about 2 feet away when a little girl handed a cookie to my son.  She didn't know any better, but if it had been a peanut butter cookie it could have meant his death! 

They are getting rid of all the treats with p/b and only giving out peanut free stuff from now on.  And this is not just for my kid's benefit.  We take in children for Sunday School outreach from some very bad homes, I have no doubt some of these kids are abused and neglected, in and out of foster homes, etc.  There could be some with peanut allergies that their parents are too drunk or stoned or careless to remember to tell us, these kids deserve protection too.  And I will continue to not rely on others' judgement as to what to feed my child, all treats will be passed by me first before he is given anything. 

[lil_miss_understood]

I'm sorry for your loss, MrsJewelsRae. I hope your family is coping with the loss of your beloved pet as well as can be expected.

I'm glad that your church community is proving to be supportive.

[momofmine]

Just found a great video that might be helpful for other kids or adults to watch to learn about food allergies.  This is really good:

http://www.childrensmemorial.org/media.aspx?media=126

Also, for those who ask about or teach people about hand washing in groups that you participate in, what do you normally tell people?  What do you suggest as gudielines for handwashing?  Wash hands when you come in?  After eating food?  

I was in a children's museum once when we went up to an exhibit that the children could guide a little remote truck with a controller, and the kids there, with their mom, were happily munching away on a snack mix in plastic baggies, as they were putting their hands all over the controller.  Never mind the fact that RIGHT ABOVE the thing on the wall was a sign that said NO FOOD IN EXHIBIT AREAS.  I explained to the mom that my child has a peanut allergy, etc, just in a respectful, requesting way, and she was so apologetic.  I then went to the museum staff and they wiped it down.  But that's just why we have to be vigilant.  If we hadn't SEEN those kids there, if they had done what they did, then walked away before we ever walked up to the exhibit, my child would have walked right up there and put his fingers all over it.  

[momofmine]

I am editing to add to my above post.  I just read the different perspectives on whether or not it's appropriate to make an area peanut-free, and I just wanted to say that I totally agree with the PPs who said that, yes, of course, we all understand that does not automatically mean safety.  Case in point is the example I gave above.  However, it absolutely reduces the risk.  It would be foolish to think anything else.  And when you are talking about a toddler, who may not even be able to verbalize, even to you, any weird feelings like an itch in the back of their throat, etc, then anything that can be done to reduce the risk is worth whatever it takes.  I also basically never left my child alone at that age unless he was with his dad or my mother-in-law, or with a trusted babysitter trained in all manner of emergency plans, and the babysitter was only in my peanut-free home.  And she washed her hands when she first arrived.  At that age, the issue is just different than an adult, or even an older child who can at least understand more (and I am talking like 11 or 12 and up)..

[gilamama]

as a family we do not , thank G!D struggle with ana reactions but i wanted to share stories about my 2 dift dd's personalities and how that affects them.  my dd1 is 7 a real "good girl"  she now knows how tor ead labels on packages for allergy warnings and ingredients herself.  always asked if there was wheat or dairy (and she also used to be off soy corn sugar)  in something, raelly never ate anything from anyone but us.  my dd2 (who is celiac and almost 5) is much more of an "air" type person, floating in her immagination not the most down to earth grounded  etc...  on 2 occations she has eaten wheat no 3 actually in the past year.  once she asked her friend if her sandwhich had gluten in it.  the girl said no and she took a bite.  another time chocolate cake that a dift 4 y.o told her it had no gluten in it and another time crackers b/c a boy told her to eat them (i think he was just being polite).  we live in an intentional community and my dd goes off alone with friends alot and this is normal and safe here so she is unsupervised outside with other kids often.  she is just not the kind of kid who you can tell her once and she listens,  fear tactics dont work with her even if i tell her stories abt how she was thowing up and diarhea for a month when she was younger and was exposed (now she is much stronger and that kind of reaction hasnt happened).  she is curious and she wants to taste and she wants to fit in. 

It is much easier to have a kid with allergies like my dd1, and maybe your son will be.

But your ana kid or his friends could be like my dd2 (sweet but a little spacey in some ways) or your kids friends might with good intentions be like her friends.   If your son asks the friend instead of the parent if the pretzels have nuts in them the kid will obviously say no.  there are no nuts in pretzels just like there is not gluten in a sandwich, there is jelly in the sandwich, but we all know that pretzels are probably produced or pacaged somewhere with nuts and a even though her mother didnt spread gluten on the bread it is in the sandwich.

wishing you the best on your journeys.