Banning computer play for 16 yr old? - Page 2

[alittlesandy]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn 

Originally Posted by mamaofthree 

ok, this is coming from a homeschooling mom who does not believe in testing... BUT since when is it wrong, if you believe in testing, to expect a child who has said he is studying and doing the work and getting it (per him) to do well on a test. that is sort of what a test is, to test your knowledge. why do we need to have them know all that is going to be on a test, anything could be on it, hence it is a test. i never understood that logic. when i took tests in HS and college i assumed that it could be over any and all the stuff i was taking the class on and studied for it. i didn't expect the teacher to spoon feed me all the info that would be on the test. maybe part of his issue is he doesn't know how to study, some methods are more effective then others. and if you have troubles studying learning how to study is really helpful.

h

To me it's more the randomness of the sudden test + consequences of no video games that would impact on the relationship, motivation, etc. I wasn't suggesting "spoon feeding" it and I'm not sure where you got that impression.

I prefer a learning environment -and- a family home where the expectations for everyone are clear and consistent. Otherwise I think some people have a tendency to give up trying & communication breaks down.

I agree. This was how my parents did things. There were no clear, respectful expectations laid down when things were good and everyone was getting along. Then, when I was violating completely unspoken expectations, my mother would "crack down" and take everything away in a fit of anger. This would cause me to withdraw, and yes, lie to her. However, I don't know what to do when the vicious cycle is already in place and the trust is already broken. Like I said, I think initially that expectations need to be set and clarified before there is conflict, resentment, and anger. After that, it just feels like retaliation.

[sapphire_chan]

From what you've described, I think the best thing for him would be a class at a local college. I'd see if there's a slot that fits into his schedule so you can pick him up from school and drop him off at the class so there's no time to get out of the "I'm doing school now" mindset.

Don't worry about getting it into his early days, because he can just take more free time on those days if it comes up.

[sapphire_chan]

Personally, I can't work by myself out of a book when I'm at home. I have to go to a library or coffee house or the like. Best of all is a place where there are lots of other people studying.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree 

ok, this is coming from a homeschooling mom who does not believe in testing... BUT since when is it wrong, if you believe in testing, to expect a child who has said he is studying and doing the work and getting it (per him) to do well on a test. that is sort of what a test is, to test your knowledge. why do we need to have them know all that is going to be on a test, anything could be on it, hence it is a test. i never understood that logic. when i took tests in HS and college i assumed that it could be over any and all the stuff i was taking the class on and studied for it. i didn't expect the teacher to spoon feed me all the info that would be on the test. maybe part of his issue is he doesn't know how to study, some methods are more effective then others. and if you have troubles studying learning how to study is really helpful.

h

I think the problem (one of many, really) in the op's situation is that it's random. If you test, you do give some indication of when and what material (generally) is covered. A teacher doesn't just walk in and say, "hey, we're having a test on these 4 chapters tomorrow. I'm not sure if we've covered them, but we'll have the test anyway." I don't see where the OP was clear with her son. Just asking "are you doing your math" isn't a clear expectation.

OP, I don't understand what you're trying to do with the extra math book to be honest. I am an unapologetic math nerd. I was on the math team, did theorems for fun in my spare time, etc. I would've balked if my mom had decided to just buy a book and force me to read it as "extra" math. It seriously would have ticked me off, so I don't think your son blowing it off is all that odd. 

If you're really concerned about his math progression, getting a tutor or signing him up for a class with his input seem to be better choices. Just choosing a math book and expecting him to work from it at some undetermined pace for an undetermined reason doesn't seem that it would work (and obviously isn't). 

[lilyka]

there is no way I could work out of a math book.  regardless of how interesting it looked.  Neither could my kids.  and regardless of how brilliant or not they are when I would leave them to do school work on their own it would NEVER get done.  

I really think (still)  your best best is that he get a job and tutor.  A tutor could help him with any subjects he struggles with (although it doesn't sound like he is struggling at all so I really don't understand the problem.) and teach him effective studying skill.  It was my biggest pet peeve that my teachers and parents would tell me to "study".  to this day I do not know what that means or how to do it.  Fortunately I am just smart and managed to get by without actually studying for anything too diligently.  

Also find out what chores he would interested in doing.  I find it more effective with my teens to just list the jobs and ask them which ones they want to do.  My 14 year old offered to shovel all winer (we have a lot and a half, corner lot with double garage.  its a duplex with two approaches.  its a lot of shoveling and has to be done before school) if she didn't have to wash another dish.  I did not hesitate to take her up on that.  My 10 year old has a thing for laundry and lawn mowing.  And so long as she is willing to do it it is all hers.  I have chores I HATE (shoveling) and am more than happy to divy stuff up according to what every one likes so long as they can do an adequate job of everything else.

[Lisa1970]

I did not simply walk in one day and tell him there was a test on chapter 4. I told him when he was supposed to be doing chapter 1 and would check with him often and ask him if he needed any help and so on. Then chapter 2 and so on. He had a bookmark in the book in mid book and when I opened it and started to read from it outloud in front of him and he said that he had only read to that page but not that actual page. That is when I realized he was not telling the truth. I told him then that there would be a test on the book where it was anything through chapter 4. The "test" was simply the problems from the actual book, one page from the book. 

I never forced him to have the book. I never forced him to claim he wanted to major in computer science. I never forced any of that on him. That was ALL his doing. I suggested he consider something in art since he is so good at that but he insists on computer science. 

But the taking away the computer is not a punishment so much as it is removing the distraction. Frankly, I just don't think that someone who lies, skips his schoolwork (both in school and out) also needs to spend hours each day on the computer playing computer games.

I removed the computer from his room and returned it to the dining room and he is on restriction from it until further notice. He has a specific list of things he must accomplish before he can get it back. This includes his teachers all signing off that he has done 100% of his school work and keeping up with his chores. His room must be cleaned up too (he lost some of his school work under stuff he had in his room). 
 

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom 

Originally Posted by mamaofthree 

ok, this is coming from a homeschooling mom who does not believe in testing... BUT since when is it wrong, if you believe in testing, to expect a child who has said he is studying and doing the work and getting it (per him) to do well on a test. that is sort of what a test is, to test your knowledge. why do we need to have them know all that is going to be on a test, anything could be on it, hence it is a test. i never understood that logic. when i took tests in HS and college i assumed that it could be over any and all the stuff i was taking the class on and studied for it. i didn't expect the teacher to spoon feed me all the info that would be on the test. maybe part of his issue is he doesn't know how to study, some methods are more effective then others. and if you have troubles studying learning how to study is really helpful.

h

I think the problem (one of many, really) in the op's situation is that it's random. If you test, you do give some indication of when and what material (generally) is covered. A teacher doesn't just walk in and say, "hey, we're having a test on these 4 chapters tomorrow. I'm not sure if we've covered them, but we'll have the test anyway." I don't see where the OP was clear with her son. Just asking "are you doing your math" isn't a clear expectation.

OP, I don't understand what you're trying to do with the extra math book to be honest. I am an unapologetic math nerd. I was on the math team, did theorems for fun in my spare time, etc. I would've balked if my mom had decided to just buy a book and force me to read it as "extra" math. It seriously would have ticked me off, so I don't think your son blowing it off is all that odd. 

If you're really concerned about his math progression, getting a tutor or signing him up for a class with his input seem to be better choices. Just choosing a math book and expecting him to work from it at some undetermined pace for an undetermined reason doesn't seem that it would work (and obviously isn't). 

[littlest birds]

My dd actually is expected to do her schoolwork in common rooms, not in her bedroom which is extremely private.  She had consistently said she was working on or had worked on things and it turned out that she went back to bed or telephoned her friends.

Why not test when someone has given every appearance of doing the material?  Especially if it turns out that the kid had been lying, why is it wrong to check in some way?  I've never used a test in that situation but I have often found out in some other way that dd has pretended to be working independently but wasn't.  Is a "test" inherently invasive or something?  Because it seems to me just a way to ask useful questions.

I still think you should simply set times of day when the computer should be put up in your sight in a public part of the house because that time is designated for schoolwork.  Also, you may want him to be closer to you and look more carefully at his work more often.  Ask him for a commitment to the time, place, and work he will complete.  Why not allow computer use when he's finished but not make any kind of punishment out of it?  This is just setting up a structure that matches his maturity and self-control at this time.