fasting and weight loss

[plantnerd]

I am naturally a bigger girl, my setpoint seems to be around a size 14 or so.  Have been this way all my life.  When pregnant with my son I manages to gain 80 lbs eating a normal diet.  Usually I eat one meal a day, so three was abviously too much for me.  I lost the first 50 very quickly due to stress anorexia after his birth, and have managed to peel off another 40 since (he is 1 next week).  While I am now under my pp weight I would love to lose another 30 lbs or so to be about 140.  My adult low weight was 133 after another period of stress induced anorexia after a bad breakup, and while I was a wreck I've never looked better.  Thinking back I was probably eating one meal every other day during that time.  I know this sounds extreme, but apparently I have the metabolism of a snake LOL.

My question is has anybody used fasting to kick in weight loss after a plateau?  I am on about 1200 calories a day and have stopped losing, and am considering a once a week fast day to make up the difference. I did fast last friday after pigging out on tday and getting hellacious indigestion and lost 3 lbs.  I am still nursing but my son is eating well, gaining well, and really only using the boob as comfort at this point.

I know nutritionally fasting is not considered ideal, but in human evolution fasting periods have been very normal up until recent history in our society, so I think our bodies are accustomed to hunger more so than they are constant food intake.

[ambereva]

Oh mama, my bones ache just reading this post. You need to eat MORE, not less! You are depriving your body of essential nutrients and setting yourself up for disease.

Start here: http://www.ehow.com/how_4470014_starvation-mode-trying-lose-weight.html

[plantnerd]

Originally Posted by ambereva 

Oh mama, my bones ache just reading this post. You need to eat MORE, not less! You are depriving your body of essential nutrients and setting yourself up for disease.

Start here: http://www.ehow.com/how_4470014_starvation-mode-trying-lose-weight.html

I completely understand your POV.  The complication though is the fact that on a "regular healthy diet"  I have an overweight/obese bmi, and on what is considered a starvation diet I can peel back to normal weights.  I know it doesn't add up.  I walk 3 miles a day and am an active person too.  I wonder if I have metabolic/thyroid issues?  It just seems that conventional diet and exersize doesn't work for me, I have to go extremes to lose the weight.  It sucks, let me tell you.

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by plantnerd 

Originally Posted by ambereva 

Oh mama, my bones ache just reading this post. You need to eat MORE, not less! You are depriving your body of essential nutrients and setting yourself up for disease.

Start here: http://www.ehow.com/how_4470014_starvation-mode-trying-lose-weight.html

I completely understand your POV.  The complication though is the fact that on a "regular healthy diet"  I have an overweight/obese bmi, and on what is considered a starvation diet I can peel back to normal weights.  I know it doesn't add up.  I walk 3 miles a day and am an active person too.  I wonder if I have metabolic/thyroid issues?  It just seems that conventional diet and exersize doesn't work for me, I have to go extremes to lose the weight.  It sucks, let me tell you.

It absolutely adds up, you've been eating at starvation levels for so long that your body has slowed down it's metabolic rate to preserve your life! So yes, you DO have a metabolic disorder. And the way to fix it is to start eating more so your body can heal itself and return to a normal metabolic state. You will gain a little weight at first, but once your body realizes it's not starving any more, and starts using all the nutrients to repair damaged tissues, your metabolism will pick up and you'll begin to lose weight again. 

[crunchy_mama]

I opened this expecting to endorse fasting, I do short-fasts from time to time, whenever I feel like it.  I feel they can be beneficial for some.  I also agree that fasting to some degree is somewhat appropriate evolutionary speaking.  All of that being said- I do NOT think that YOU need to be fasting.  I think your metabolism is screwed up from not enough food for far too long.  Your walking 3 miles a day and only eating 1200 calories?  That doesn't add up, you need more, not less.  You say your body is gaining on meal a day, so you need less, I would say that means you need to eat more.  I generally am supportive of whatever eating schedule- I think some do well eating often and some just daily but it is NOT working for YOU. 

I would guess that either:

1) you are just screwed up from starvation

2) you do have some metabolic/thyroid issue

3) you have a food intolerance causing inflammation and gain despite you low level calorie intake

I would focus on making sure that you are eating good quality whole foods- as little processed food as possible.  Watch out for hidden sugars or excess sugar in any form and bad fats- esp. trans fats/hyd. fats.  Lots of veggies and good quality meat(if you eat meat).  I think walking is great but I also would look into some bodyweight/weight exercises.

[Amandamanda]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mama 

I opened this expecting to endorse fasting, I do short-fasts from time to time, whenever I feel like it.  I feel they can be beneficial for some.  I also agree that fasting to some degree is somewhat appropriate evolutionary speaking.  All of that being said- I do NOT think that YOU need to be fasting.  I think your metabolism is screwed up from not enough food for far too long.  Your walking 3 miles a day and only eating 1200 calories?  That doesn't add up, you need more, not less.  You say your body is gaining on meal a day, so you need less, I would say that means you need to eat more.  I generally am supportive of whatever eating schedule- I think some do well eating often and some just daily but it is NOT working for YOU. 

I would guess that either:

1) you are just screwed up from starvation

2) you do have some metabolic/thyroid issue

3) you have a food intolerance causing inflammation and gain despite you low level calorie intake

I would focus on making sure that you are eating good quality whole foods- as little processed food as possible.  Watch out for hidden sugars or excess sugar in any form and bad fats- esp. trans fats/hyd. fats.  Lots of veggies and good quality meat(if you eat meat).  I think walking is great but I also would look into some bodyweight/weight exercises.

I spent way too much time on facebook, because I immediately looked for the like button. But yes. Yes. x 1000.

[plantnerd]

I just fail to see how this is considered starvation?  For example, yesterday I had dinner at 6, and ate 2 grilled pork chops, about 2 cups of wilted greens (organic, from my veg garden) with lemon juice, olive oil, and garlic, and a cup or so of tomato gratin (garden tomatoes, whole grain bread cubes, olive oil, garlic, basil), and 2 small glasses of red wine.  Breakfast is black coffee, water and tons of it all day.  That's honestly a good bit of food, and what I would consider well within the realm of a balanced diet, it just happens to be my only meal of the day, and a big one at that.  I'm not gaining on this, but I've stopped losing and hit the "dieting plateau".  I know my body obviously wants to be this size as it's been par for the course since my teenage years (I'm 31), but that doesn't mean I cant trim down.  If I've gone from 256 on D's birthday to 172 today without any effects to my health and a good milk supply, why would it hurt to keep going? I'm tired of my doc lecturing me about my size, I'm tired of big panties  LOL.

I appreciate ya'lls advice though, I'm just not getting it :)

[redvlagrl]

It is very hard on your body to not eat all day and then eat a huge meal in one sitting. Even if you didn't want to increase the total amount you were eating, I bet that if you spread the same food out into 3-5 meals you would lose some weight.

EAting every 2 hours or so in small amounts can keep your metabolism revved up.

I am a recovered anorexic/bulimic and i also used to believe that I just wasn't able to eat as much as normal people. It's just not true. Yes, there are some lucky people with 'thrifty genes', but for the most part you need to eat more and more regularly.

I think you might benefit from seeking some eating disorder treatment to normalize your relationship with food. I see that what you are eating is very healthy, however I would try eating the same total amount but spread through the day for a few weeks and see what happens.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by plantnerd 

I just fail to see how this is considered starvation?  For example, yesterday I had dinner at 6, and ate 2 grilled pork chops, about 2 cups of wilted greens (organic, from my veg garden) with lemon juice, olive oil, and garlic, and a cup or so of tomato gratin (garden tomatoes, whole grain bread cubes, olive oil, garlic, basil), and 2 small glasses of red wine.  Breakfast is black coffee, water and tons of it all day.  That's honestly a good bit of food, and what I would consider well within the realm of a balanced diet, it just happens to be my only meal of the day, and a big one at that.  I'm not gaining on this, but I've stopped losing and hit the "dieting plateau".  I know my body obviously wants to be this size as it's been par for the course since my teenage years (I'm 31), but that doesn't mean I cant trim down.  If I've gone from 256 on D's birthday to 172 today without any effects to my health and a good milk supply, why would it hurt to keep going? I'm tired of my doc lecturing me about my size, I'm tired of big panties  LOL.

I appreciate ya'lls advice though, I'm just not getting it :)

you may well be right, but the picture isn't clear to me.  can you give us a food diary for three or four days?  I'm reserving judgment until I see what's on it.

There is something amiss here, I'm just not entirely sure what it is.  Reading your post a few things popped into my head, but without more information it's hard to even start discussing it.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by ambereva 

You are depriving your body of essential nutrients and setting yourself up for disease.

\

I'm not sure how we can say this without knowing what is included in her diet.

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

Originally Posted by ambereva 

You are depriving your body of essential nutrients and setting yourself up for disease.

\

I'm not sure how we can say this without knowing what is included in her diet.

Because she's eating 1200 calories a day. And nursing. And, presumably, walking around doing things for at least part of every day. There's no way she is getting enough MACROnutrients (carbs, protein and fat) on that few calories, never mind micronutrients.
 

[Panserbjorne]

I know we go around and around about this, but I don't agree.

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I know we go around and around about this, but I don't agree.

Even the HCG protocol (which I consider highly misguided and dangerous) doesn't advocate eating at starvation levels for years on end.

[plantnerd]

Originally Posted by redvlagrl 

It is very hard on your body to not eat all day and then eat a huge meal in one sitting. Even if you didn't want to increase the total amount you were eating, I bet that if you spread the same food out into 3-5 meals you would lose some weight.

EAting every 2 hours or so in small amounts can keep your metabolism revved up.

I am a recovered anorexic/bulimic and i also used to believe that I just wasn't able to eat as much as normal people. It's just not true. Yes, there are some lucky people with 'thrifty genes', but for the most part you need to eat more and more regularly.

I think you might benefit from seeking some eating disorder treatment to normalize your relationship with food. I see that what you are eating is very healthy, however I would try eating the same total amount but spread through the day for a few weeks and see what happens.

This is a great idea, and possibly the best advice I've gotten on the subject.  I guess the only complication to to it is I enjoy having dinner with my family, and I enjoy cooking for them, so that is the meal I eat.  I'm a little food snobbish as well, so a handful of nuts here and a piece of fruit there just seems like a waste of taste to me when I could save those calories for a delicious meal.  I guess I could cut my dinner portions in half and save the rest to have for breakfast and lunch the next day?  I hate eating alone though, it makes me sad.

One more question on the topic---  Some people cannot lose weight by conventional means, and they have lap band or gastric bp surgery to reduce the size of their stomachs, therefore reducing their calories intake to what we would consider "starvation levels", yet only once that is done are they able ton attain a healthy weight.  Not that I would EVER do this, but if a very low calorie diet is truly harmful, and a long term low calorie diet causes weight gain, why does this work for people?
 

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by ambereva 

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I know we go around and around about this, but I don't agree.

Even the HCG protocol (which I consider highly misguided and dangerous) doesn't advocate eating at starvation levels for years on end.

this has nothing to do with the HCG protocol. 

[redvlagrl]

Originally Posted by plantnerd 
One more question on the topic---  Some people cannot lose weight by conventional means, and they have lap band or gastric bp surgery to reduce the size of their stomachs, therefore reducing their calories intake to what we would consider "starvation levels", yet only once that is done are they able ton attain a healthy weight.  Not that I would EVER do this, but if a very low calorie diet is truly harmful, and a long term low calorie diet causes weight gain, why does this work for people?

I have also wondered about this too, often when i was justifying continuing my eating disorder. The reality as i understand it is that the very low calorie diet *is* harmful to the body, however people who have the lap band surgery do so because their weight is causing worse health problems. They also have to take special supplements. It's a matter of the lesser of two evils.

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

Originally Posted by ambereva 

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

I know we go around and around about this, but I don't agree.

Even the HCG protocol (which I consider highly misguided and dangerous) doesn't advocate eating at starvation levels for years on end.

this has nothing to do with the HCG protocol. 

Right, but I know why you think it's ok to eat at starvation levels. ;)

[Panserbjorne]

well, given that I thought it was okay for years before hearing about the protocol I'm guessing you don't.  It's my years of clinical nutrition and biochemistry that helped me out there.  ;)

[ambereva]

Originally Posted by Panserbjorne 

well, given that I thought it was okay for years before hearing about the protocol I'm guessing you don't.  It's my years of clinical nutrition and biochemistry that helped me out there.  ;)

Your years of clinical nutrition and biochemistry support the idea that a non-sedentary nursing mother can meet her nutritional needs on 1200 calories a day? I'm pretty sure the OP has an eating disorder and making claims like this, and 'backing' them up with posts like this is borderline irresponsible, and certainly triggering.

Even IF a woman could meet her needs on 1200 calories, WHY?!?!? Most women, even virtually sedentary women, can eat 1500-2000 a day and lose weight. Heck, I lost 80 pounds on 2800 calories a day. NO woman should spend her life hungry. It's totally inhumane and degrading. We are worthy of feeding ourselves nourishing foods in adequate amounts. We deserve to be well nourished, we deserve to have the strength and energy to enjoy an active life. Our daughters (and sons) deserve to see us loving and caring for our bodies, not starving them into submission.

[GoBecGo]

OP Have your thyroid checked.  I was heavy for years and good exercise and not many calories and it was undx hypothyroidism.  For about 5 years weight gain was my ONLY symptom, and it was only pregnancy which unearthed it, because doctors simply didn't believe how little i ate, because hey, i was fat.  Untreated i was a UK 18, treated, 6months PP and eating whatever i want i'm a UK 16 and i would guess once i am nursing less and thus eating less i will whittle back to the UK 12-14 i was at once i got treated properly after DD1 was born.

It is possible you have severely damaged your metabolism by starving your body for so long.  If this is the case you will need to heal it, which is a L-O-N-G process.

Starving yourself might seem like a good option, and no-one can force you not to do it.  I have a bodypump instructor who was "chunky" for years.  She decided to starve it off.  For 3 years she looked INCREDIBLE.  She was running miles, getting great times and she just looked fabulous.  Then, aged 26, she had a heart attack.  Now she is still running miles, she gets BETTER times, but she is a good 25lbs heavier.  The long-term health risks of starvation are serious.  Think carefully about what harm you might do yourself for the vanity of being thinner.  BMI is not an absolute, my DP has a near-obese BMI when he's fully fit and his bodyfat is around 10%, it's just a number for evaluating a demographic, it doesn't state ANYTHING about the health of an individual person.  You don't mention how you feel only how great you look thin, so i assume you're not suffering with obesity-related morbidity.  Is it worth being a pretty corpse?