Charting to Avoid / Fertility Awareness - December

[capretta]

 December 2010 

Last Month's Thread

Welcome to the December 2010 charting to avoid and fertility awareness thread. We are all at different stages in family planning and our own fertility. Some of us are very ardently Charting to Avoid (CTA); some are CTA but would be thrilled with a BFP; and we even have a few who are "whatevering" or pregnant and continue to hang out here.

If you did not post in November, you may have been deleted from the list. If you have joined recently, please double check I have your chart linked correctly. If you were mistakenly deleted, you would like to be added/removed, or you spot anything you would like me to change, please post or PM me to let me know. Remember, you must post in December if you want to be on the January list!

To those who are new, welcome! 

    Who We Are

angelxxrose (CTA 12 months)

Braan 

Eresh (currently LAM)

fnpmama 

goinggreengirl (CTA 9+ months) 
Guthu 
HulaJenn  (CTA since May 2009)
InMediasRes 

justKate  (CTA since November 2010) 
K-Mom3 
knittinanny 

librarygirl 

Maine Mama Doula
miss_honeyb  (CTA 23 cycles)

MissE 
Mom2SammyJoe (CTA 7 months)

phathui5 
RaraAvis  (CTA since 2007, except when whatevering)
Smylingeyz 

southernmommie (currently LAM)

theboysmama 
Toolip 
TrishWSU  (CTA 25 months)

Xerxella  (CTA 4 months)

 

Graduates

Pregnant! 

wholewheatchick (Dec. 2010)
OSUvet (Feb. 2011)
echospiritwarrior (Feb. 2011)
lyterae (Feb. 2011)
dex_millie (Feb. 2011)
annie2186 (April 2011)
katiedidbug (May 2011)
BarefootScientist (June 2011)
Smokering (June 2011)

AnnieA (July 2011)

shells_n_cheese (July 2011)
Baby_Cakes
MovingMomma

No Longer TTA

capretta

jeninejessica 

LionessMom 

Mummoth 

Good luck to those now TTC! 


 

 

 Summary of FAM Rules

(sympto-thermal) 

 

Pre-ovulation rules:

1) First 5 Days Rule: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had an obvious temp shift 12-16 days before.

2) Dry Day Rule: You are safe to DTD after 6PM if you have been dry all day.


Post ovulation rules:

1) Peak Day Rule: The last day of fertile mucus is called the peak day (the day before your mucus begins to dry up). You are safe to DTD on the fourth consecutive day after the peak day. If another patch of more fertile mucus appears, start your count over.

2) Temperature Shift Rule: You are safe the evening of the third consecutive day your temp is above your coverline. If your temp falls at or below the coverline during the 3 day count, begin your count again.

BOTH rules must be satisfied to be considered in your infertile phase.


How to set a coverline:

When you see a temperature shift of at least 0.2° F above the highest of the previous 6 temps, draw a line 0.1° F above that highest temp.


 

 

 Resources 

 

Books

Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler
Garden of Fertility by Katie Singer
Honoring Our Cycles (workbook) by Katie Singer
The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley
Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing by Sheila Kippley
Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon


Websites

TCOYF (Ovusoft) charting software, and brief fertility library
Fertility Friend charting software, and ttc charting guide
myfertilitycharts.com free software for ttc or tta
Garden of Fertility author Katie Singer's website
Mothering Magazine article by Katie Singer
Billings Ovulation Method info
Billings Ovulation Method Association, USA
Billings Centre, CA
Couple to Couple League (find an NFP instructor)
Creighton Model


Abbreviations

AF: Aunt Flo, menses, your period
BBT: basal body temperature
BC: birth control
BIP: basic infertile pattern
CD: cycle day
CF: cervical fluid (same as CM)
CHs: crosshairs (intersection of coverline and ovulation)
CL: coverline
CM: cervical mucus (same as CF)
CO: cervical opening
CP: cervical position
CTA: charting to avoid
CTW: charting to "whatever" (not avoiding, not preventing)
DPO: days past ovulation
DTD: do the dead (sex)
EWCM: eggwhite cervical mucus/fluid
FAM: fertility awareness method
FF: Fertility Friend (website, see above)
HBC: hormonal birth control
HTL: high temp level (0.4°F above LTL, temp rise needed to indicate O)
LAM: lactational amenorrhea method (breastfeeding as birth control)
LP: luteal phase (between ovulation and menses, average 10-16 days)
LTL: low temp level (highest of the 6 temps immediately before temp rise)
NFP: natural family planning
O: ovulation
SHOW: soft, high, open, wet (characteristics of the cervix near ovulation)
SR: seminal residue
TCOYF: Taking Charge of Your Fertility (book and website, see above)
TTA: trying to avoid
TTW: trying to whatever
other common abbreviations


 

 Happy Charting Everyone! 

Edited by capretta - 12/23/10 at 4:11am

[capretta]

In the early days of my cycle, have a busy month ahead with travel and visitors, hope I can manage to chart through the craziness.

What's everyone else up to? Who is celebrating Christmas this month? Hanukkah? Solstice? Other? What are your traditions? As atheists, we kind of celebrate everything and nothing. Our only real tradition is eating at a Chinese restaurant on Christmas day. I thought I came up with that by myself, but then I found out it's a common Jewish tradition! 

[miss_honeyb]

I'm on Day 3 of a 10-day cleanse and on CD9. It will be interesting to see what happens with this cycle! I've done this cleanse twice before and I'm pretty sure I O'd later than normal. We'll see!

We celebrate Christmas, but as Christians we try to keep the focus on Jesus and not on material craziness. No matter what you celebrate, I'm sure we all struggle with the rampant materialism and spending that's pushed this time of year! It's so hard to steer away from that and focus on the important things - for us, family time, God, making meaningful gifts for each other, participating in family traditions and serving in our community! It just makes me sick to hear/see all the "BUY BUY BUY, SPEND SPEND SPEND, YOU NEED THIS IN ORDER TO BE HAPPY" messages that are EVERYWHERE right now.    Anyway.... can you tell I feel strongly about this? 

[Mummoth]

I'm on CD20, no sign of ovulation in sight. I'm predicting it'll happen around the 14th, because I've gotten AF on Christmas morning about 6 times in the last 10 years. Seriously. WTF, Mother Nature?! What did I ever do to you?!

We're atheists who celebrate Christmas. The main focus is on spending time with family... we bake, make a gingerbread house together and make Ukrainian eggs (which is what the kids give their grandparents for presents) The kids get gifts, but I don't think we're OTT with that... my daughter really wants cake mixes and supplies to make cupcakes and my son wants a pocket knife... which I'm really not sure is a good idea. Maybe I could get him some chisels and instructions on carving wood? But judging from their requests, I think we're doing okay from the not-commercialized standpoint. The kids are doing a concert at school this year, I'm really excited about that!!

[Toolip]

thank you for the new thread!

[fnpmama]

Thanks for the new thread

We are Catholic and celebrate Christmas.  we sing in the church choir and I already am looking forward to singing at Christmas mass.  And, for the first time in 4 years I have an entire weeks vacation over the holidays (I'm a fulltime WOHM working in a health care facility that doesn't close for the holidays.).  So, we can travel to be with our families for at least a few days.  yay!   

Originally Posted by miss_honeyb 

We celebrate Christmas, but as Christians we try to keep the focus on Jesus and not on material craziness. No matter what you celebrate, I'm sure we all struggle with the rampant materialism and spending that's pushed this time of year! It's so hard to steer away from that and focus on the important things - for us, family time, God, making meaningful gifts for each other, participating in family traditions and serving in our community! It just makes me sick to hear/see all the "BUY BUY BUY, SPEND SPEND SPEND, YOU NEED THIS IN ORDER TO BE HAPPY" messages that are EVERYWHERE right now.    Anyway.... can you tell I feel strongly about this? 

 I hear you completely!  Right now the boys are still too little to get into the material craziness, but I know it is on the horizon.  i am curious what you and other's do with gift giving to keep things "unmaterialisitic"  if that is even a word...

CD 14 here with confusing temps, since I know I won't ovulate for at least 3 days...

[goinggreengirl]

I'd like to join. We CTA for nine months before getting pregnant (I swear DH's sperm lives longer than normal sperm- a fact which he seems to enjoy.) So, now I need advice on charting while breastfeeding and cosleeping. I haven't gotten my thermometer out, though I've been loosely charting menstruation and fertile cervical mucous since my cycle came back four months ago (I was really hoping for a longer break). We've just been using condoms every time though DH and I would both like to ditch those once I KNOW for a fact when I ovulated.

So, any advice on BF while charting? I don't really have to wake up fully when he wants to nurse, though a few times recently he's decided he wants to play at 4 am. Will temps be accurate?

[librarygirl]

December already! And the snow is flying here, which is wonderful, because I LOVE snow.

Day 17 and based on CM, I'd say O is soon, but my temps were all over the place last week so it's hard to judge for certain. It didn't help that I slept 3 different places last week (2 nights on a couch, too!), was vaguely ill with the sniffles, and didn't get nearly enough sleep at all. I think my insomnia has passed and I'm back at home after holiday visits with family so hopefully things will settle down now. Still a couple months from relying on charting so I'm not too concerned right now.

My family is seriously into Christmas! And not in a materialistic way, really. There are no little ones at all so it's easy to say we're only spending $10/person this year and that's it. We're more about spending time together putting up decorations, looking at Christmas lights, baking, cooking, watching Christmas movies, etc. The holiday music is on non-stop and we spend a lot of time together, talking, laughing and just enjoying. I've also got a party with my knitting group, a party for work, and a family reunion approaching, which are all wonderful fun.

I'm really looking forward to spending Christmas with my boyfriend, as we just met this year. It'll be interesting to see how our holiday traditions mesh and match up. I just need to figure out what to get him!

Hope everyone has a blessed and happy holiday season, regardless of which holidays you choose to celebrate or not!

Welcome, Emilie (goinggreengirl) ! I'm new, too!

[fnpmama]

Okay ladies I need some help with my temp this morning.  I usually wake up and temp at about 6:20am, but this morning DS2 woke me up at 4:50am.  I temped 97.4 then got up gave him his paci, put his blanket back on him, went to the bathroom and then went to bed.  I woke up the second time at 6:55 temped again got 98.2.  So, which temp  do I use?  Here is my chart using the 97.4 temp. 

But if I put in the 98.2 temp it really looks like I O'd. 

Oh and to add to the confusion yesterdays temp was taken about 40 minutes late at 7am, after waking up to comfort my son at 3am.

And I almost always O CD16 or later.

Any advice???

[capretta]

Welcome to the thread, goinggreengirl! 

Let me know if you have a chart link to add to the OP.

fnpmama: Were you sleeping for 3 hours before 4:50? If so, I would go with the earlier temp.

The TCOYF software will adjust -.10° for every 20 min before normal waking time (up to a point - after 1.5 hr or so it just marks it as "disturbed"). So that could maybe adjust the early temp to 97.8 or 97.9. If you adjusted yesterday the same way (+.10° for every 20 min late) you'd get 97.9. So it would look a little less erratic. I don't know what other's think about this adjustment, but I've noticed that my temps seem to follow this pattern. If I wake up 40 min late or 40 min early my temps are likely to be a couple tenths higher or lower than the others in the same phase.

At any rate, I've read (and seen here) that the 3 solid hours of sleep is supposed to matter more than the precise waking hour, so I would tend to side with the earlier temps taken after a longer stretch of uninterrupted sleep.

[fnpmama]

Originally Posted by capretta 

fnpmama: Were you sleeping for 3 hours before 4:50? If so, I would go with the earlier temp.

The TCOYF software will adjust -.10° for every 20 min before normal waking time (up to a point - after 1.5 hr or so it just marks it as "disturbed"). So that could maybe adjust the early temp to 97.8 or 97.9. If you adjusted yesterday the same way (+.10° for every 20 min late) you'd get 97.9. So it would look a little less erratic. I don't know what other's think about this adjustment, but I've noticed that my temps seem to follow this pattern. If I wake up 40 min late or 40 min early my temps are likely to be a couple tenths higher or lower than the others in the same phase.

At any rate, I've read (and seen here) that the 3 solid hours of sleep is supposed to matter more than the precise waking hour, so I would tend to side with the earlier temps taken after a longer stretch of uninterrupted sleep.

Thanks so much for the help.  That makes more sense.  I had gotten a pretty decent night's sleep before the earlier temp so I will use that and adjust it.  I think I like the TCOYF charting better than FF.  Maybe I will switch...

[phathui5]

Hi ladies! I've put Taking Charge of Your Fertility on hold at the library and am going to be taking this month to learn more about charting to avoid.

[angelxxrose]

Hello goinggreengirl and phathui5! 

We are Catholic and celebrate Christmas :) 

Capretta - I didn't know that was a common Jewish tradition.  We actually did that last year when we just moved to a different state and weren't able to go home for Christmas. 

Question - How "close" to ovulation do you feel comfortable having unprotected sex?  I don't O until CD 17+ but we never have unprotected sex before ovulation.  I know logically I have a safe time before O-ing but feel like the one time we have sex pre O, I will O earlier.  Feel free to tell me I am being unrealistic...sperm can only live up to 7 days in favorable conditions right?    

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

[Braann]

Hi ladies, I think I'm going to join you. My iud just fell out today and I don't think I'm going to get another! The side effects were killing me (or at least attempting to make me crazy)! I'm not really sure when to start charting, I haven't had a period in months. I had the mirena, so should I wait for a period or just start in the morning? Looking forward to getting to know you in the coming months!

[fnpmama]

Originally Posted by angelxxrose 

Question - How "close" to ovulation do you feel comfortable having unprotected sex?  I don't O until CD 17+ but we never have unprotected sex before ovulation.  I know logically I have a safe time before O-ing but feel like the one time we have sex pre O, I will O earlier.  Feel free to tell me I am being unrealistic...sperm can only live up to 7 days in favorable conditions right?    

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Well, since I have never in my charting ovulated before day 15, I feel comfortable up to day 9 of my cycle.  But that being said my second son was conceived when we were CTA so ya might not really want to list to me.  However, that was because I O'd late not early.   I thought i had O'd but really I hadn't my CM had a double peak, and my temperatures were off cuz I was still waking up to feed DS#1 in the night.. It was my first PP cycle then I as well... Anyway, I have learned some since then.   As far as after ovulation I make sure that I have 5 days of clear temp shift.  I just can't rely on CM.

Welcome Braan, goinggreengirl, & pathui5!!  I'm pretty new here, too.  but so far it has helped me feel more confident in my charting and get knowledgeable advice when I need it. 
 

[theboysmama]

well, i am back again so you can remove me from the graduates:(.

I am on cd 9 post m/c at 8 wks.

Dh is done done done so we are going to really really tta for at least 6 months and then re-visit the issue as I really reallydon't feel our family is complete.

I took a hpt this morning and it was still pos. I temped for the first time today as well and it was high at 98.0, will it drop when the hcg drops?

I shuld o 3-4ks post m/c so we will see what happens.

[Mummoth]

theboysmama~ sorry you're back, I hope your DH comes around to trying for another. 

I have a bad cold right now, so my temperatures are all over the place. FF gave me dashed-line cross hairs, though I'm pretty sure I haven't ovulated. I'm having temps that aren't fever-high, but are a full degree higher than my usual post-O temps. Would you mark that as a fever? FF disregards the temp if you say it's a fever.

Question - How "close" to ovulation do you feel comfortable having unprotected sex?

Well,  my cycle still hasn't normalized since going off the pill (over 6 months ago) so I haven't ovulated before CD28, but we still use protection every time after about CD7. I get obsessive if there's even a remote possibility that I could be pregnant, so for SO's sanity, it's better this way. 

[miss_honeyb]

Originally Posted by angelxxrose 

Question - How "close" to ovulation do you feel comfortable having unprotected sex?  I don't O until CD 17+ but we never have unprotected sex before ovulation.  I know logically I have a safe time before O-ing but feel like the one time we have sex pre O, I will O earlier.  Feel free to tell me I am being unrealistic...sperm can only live up to 7 days in favorable conditions right?    

I think the little buggers can only live 5 days in favorable conditions??? But do you have dry days pre-O? Because you are safe to DTD after 6pm if you've been dry all day! I usually have about 2 dry days after AF which are safe for unprotected sex. And I also use the rule where you take the earliest day you've ever O'd, then minus 7 and you're good to DTD up until that day. For me that's day 8. That's not a totally fool-proof rule though. (I can't remember the name of that rule...anyone??)  We've decided to use condoms when I'm in that "possibly fertile" stage and then abstain when I'm in the "danger zone".   

 

Originally Posted by theboysmama 

well, i am back again so you can remove me from the graduates:(.

I am on cd 9 post m/c at 8 wks.

Dh is done done done so we are going to really really tta for at least 6 months and then re-visit the issue as I really reallydon't feel our family is complete.

I took a hpt this morning and it was still pos. I temped for the first time today as well and it was high at 98.0, will it drop when the hcg drops?

I shuld o 3-4ks post m/c so we will see what happens.

Sorry for your loss, mama.   My angel baby was born on August 9th, 5 years ago. I'll think of you next year on that date!! I hope you and DH can reach an agreement on your family size...I know that can be very difficult.

I am still on my cleanse, Day 7 today and I'm SO sick of it. But my chart has been pretty straightforward, thankfully! I'm getting some fertile-quality CM, hopefully I'll go on to O like normal and not just hang out in limbo land because of the cleansing.

Welcome Braann, goinggreengirl and phathui5!!!! 

[capretta]

Welcome to the thread phathui5 and Braan! 

phathui5: TCOYF is great. I only wish I had read it 20 years ago!

Braan: I haven't been on HBC for many years, so I don't have any experience with how it affects charting. There is at least one other person who recently removed her mirena here though, so maybe she can chime in. If it were me, I would start charting right away, even if your cycles may be a little wonky for a while. 

theboysmama: Sorry for your loss.  Welcome back to the thread. 

miss_honeyb: What is this cleanse you are doing? What does it involve?

angelxxrose: I have also read 5 (not 7 days) under "ideal" conditions. We have yet to go without barriers before O, but we're still pretty new to CTA. Plus, we're TTC soon enough and I'd rather not have an "oops" before then.

All: As always, let me know if you'd like me to add or update a chart link in the OP.

[goinggreengirl]

I have a question- do you enter when you had sex and (on fertility friend) do you differentiate between unprotected and protected sex? For my own peace of mind, I want to chart them differently (I know condoms can fail, but at least I'll be less worried if we had sex with a condom near O than if we went natural too near O time).