~*•~*•~ December Dating Thread ~•*~•*~ season of giving... but let's give of ourselves wisely! - Page 3

[Devaya]

Phoenix-Mama, I want to thank you for what you said about realising it's okay to be an adult woman with needs and desires too as well as a mother...I think I was trying to be really stoical about the whole no-sex-and-no-affection-or-real-adult-intimacy thing out of some misplaced sense of duty. Well, the fact is in the 16 months since I split from my ex I have had a few involvements, only one of them serious but more than one that touched my heart and could have gone somewhere - but was ended by the other person. And it's been such a rollercoaster, and I'm realising now that things are developing with LCG that my heart is actually quite wounded, but it's not going to get any LESS wounded by just staying away from men for a long time and avoiding the whole scene...treading carefully, yes, and listening to my heart and being alert to signs of deal-breakers, definitely, as you say. And Butterflymom, yes, I enjoy your posts! Good to hear you are enjoying the moment with Cucumber, wherever it leads.

I had a lovely weekend with LCG. We did a few of my favourite things together: dancing, eating out, walking in nature - it was just so full. And we can talk so much but also be silent together. We ended up getting intimate... which I had thought might happen but was still a little surprised that it's all really happening. I felt like I never wanted the night and day to end, and I've been thinking about him pretty nonstop since then. I can be so 'Buddhist' up to a point in the rest of my life, but when it comes to men... sheesh! Not much control over the thought process there, it's just too delicious thinking about them. I am still quite concerned about the massive age gap between us and all that that means, but I am hesitant of passing up on something with so much potential because of something like that - esp since 90 % of it is future-related fear, fear of what others will think, and not really about the heart and the here and now of what's real and really between us. I was feeling v vulnerable today and we chatted and he is feeling the same, we both have had our hearts broken a lot. He'd said to me he was feeling scared as he got closer to me, even if that was what he wanted. So I feel like we are on the same page. It's kind of unbearable right now that he lives an hour and a half away!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

I have a date coming up on Saturday... 

YAY!!!!!  I'm SO glad to see you on here, taking care of yourself, and realizing that YES you are more than just a mother!  I think the rest of your post is great, and I hope you have a GREAT time!!!!!  (but yes, do take it slow and be cautious.  I'm terrified to start dating, but I want to - once I'm done with the bar exam and have a job and am more settled.....I think I'm just too scared and I'm putting i toff lol!) 

I might start reading this thread, and feeling out the idea of dating - I feel very intimidated by it, and really don't want a repeat of last time.  I guess I also worry that men won't necessarily be understanding of the fact that my ds comes FIRST and always will - how do people navigate that when dating???  Like I said, I'm just starting to think about dating, and am not doing anything right now that would result in a date, but I guess I just don't really know how dating as a mom really works.

[Zeta]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 
and there are some that think a woman with young children shouldn't be thinking of dating at all... so I hope I don't get flamed here. 

whoah, girlfriend you came to the right thread.  This is a safe place for people to come and talk about their inklings, mistakes, passions, ponderings, and dramas around being mamas AND dating/ thinking about dating/ lamenting dating/ etc etc!!!  This is where you can talk to the girls.

[JohnnysGirl]

So.....'Jane Austen' style dating for me. I am enjoying the attentions, but until a serious offer is on the table, I don't need to take any of it so seriously....

All my single ladies? All my single ladies..... All my single ladies? All my single ladies....!

If he liked it, then he shoulda put a ring on it.

Oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh.....!

[Phoenix~Mama]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

I have a date coming up on Saturday... 

YAY!!!!!  I'm SO glad to see you on here, taking care of yourself, and realizing that YES you are more than just a mother!  I think the rest of your post is great, and I hope you have a GREAT time!!!!!  (but yes, do take it slow and be cautious.  I'm terrified to start dating, but I want to - once I'm done with the bar exam and have a job and am more settled.....I think I'm just too scared and I'm putting i toff lol!) 

I might start reading this thread, and feeling out the idea of dating - I feel very intimidated by it, and really don't want a repeat of last time.  I guess I also worry that men won't necessarily be understanding of the fact that my ds comes FIRST and always will - how do people navigate that when dating???  Like I said, I'm just starting to think about dating, and am not doing anything right now that would result in a date, but I guess I just don't really know how dating as a mom really works.

For me, I've been putting it right out there that my children come first and my whole dating schedule revolves around just every other Sat. when their Dad has them.  There has been one guy willing to wait the two weeks to meet me.  lol  So for me, I won't even give the guy a time of day if he doesn't understand I'm a Mom and my kids do come first... we are a package deal.  And if anything is going to transpire to more, they obviously need to get that.

Originally Posted by Butterflymom 

So.....'Jane Austen' style dating for me. I am enjoying the attentions, but until a serious offer is on the table, I don't need to take any of it so seriously....

All my single ladies? All my single ladies..... All my single ladies? All my single ladies....!

If he liked it, then he shoulda put a ring on it.

Oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh.....!

LOL!  Love it!!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Phoenix~Mama 

For me, I've been putting it right out there that my children come first and my whole dating schedule revolves around just every other Sat. when their Dad has them.  There has been one guy willing to wait the two weeks to meet me.  lol  So for me, I won't even give the guy a time of day if he doesn't understand I'm a Mom and my kids do come first... we are a package deal.  And if anything is going to transpire to more, they obviously need to get that.

 

*sigh*  Yeah, I just also feel like maybe that puts in a more vulnerably position to attract abusive guys though maybe??  I don't know, anyone have any BTDT experience going from an abusive relationship, to being a single mom, to dating again and actually scoring good, solid, NICE guys??  How did you do it?  How did you weed out the creepy's and the weirdos and the red flags?  I know what to look for, I just don't want to miss them, yk?  I missed the red flags last time, and looking back I was just plain stupid - how do I avoid that when I do start dating again??

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 
*sigh*  Yeah, I just also feel like maybe that puts in a more vulnerably position to attract abusive guys though maybe??  I don't know, anyone have any BTDT experience going from an abusive relationship, to being a single mom, to dating again and actually scoring good, solid, NICE guys??  How did you do it?  How did you weed out the creepy's and the weirdos and the red flags?  I know what to look for, I just don't want to miss them, yk?  I missed the red flags last time, and looking back I was just plain stupid - how do I avoid that when I do start dating again??

Don't mistake immaturity, narcisism, personality disorder, a short temper and unreasonable behavior for passion, confidence, or 'spark'.  Or make excuses for disappointments and non-reliable behavior.  Wait for a sweetheart who is willing to embrace you and your family in tiny, baby-steps sorts of ways that resembles being a very good and true friend who loves to be there for you, with the romance being added in to the equation in measured, increasing-sized doses.  Good, solid, nice guys will patiently navigate this process and understand that dating a single mama involves a bit more than a fancy-free bachelorette.  Weed them out in this way.  When you have specific questions about how to do that in day-to-day actual practice, come back here and ask!  We'll be here!
 

[Ione]

Also, if you ever find yourself wondering:

• Am I being unreasonable?
• Maybe I should make more of an effort (to do XYZ thing you don't want to do but he wants you to do)?
• If he really likes me, why doesn't he do XYZ? 
• If he really likes me, why did he do XYZ?

or ever find yourself second-guessing your instincts,

or ever make an excuse for his behavior or words to yourself or someone else (defending him, talking yourself out of being upset at something he's said/done/failed to do),

or if you ever feel like he is more interested in your kid(s) than you--even if you can't put your finger on what's making you feel that way--or more "into" the fact that you're a "mom" than into the fact that you are a "woman"...

They are all either red or yellow flags. Actually, 99% of the time they will be big wonkin' red flags. Either that there's something wrong with him, or that you and he just aren't compatible. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Thanks Butterfly and Ione - it's helpful to hear that its possible, and there are actual red flags that will show up!  I'm guessing it will be a little easier to spot to b/c I won't be able to move in with anyone until things are super serious - my ds's dad was my roommate 2nd semester of law school and things got complicated fast.  I think if we hadn't been living together I wouldn't have gotten as involved as I did.  Well, live and learn.

And Butterfly, I will DEFINITELY be on here once I start dating, asking all kinds of questions!!

[JohnnysGirl]

Ok, so Cucumber came by to visit last night and I practiced (now live & in person) my new MO of sitting back and seeing what he does, rather than just taking the bull by the horns, or grabbing the steering wheel and leading, or dominating the show, or whatever other euphamism you can come up with.  Receptive, available, present, but not pushing.  I want to see if he will eventually understand that I kind of already put everything into this that I possibly can in terms of emotional energy and expression and communicating intent, etc..... and that now it's his turn to either meet me half-way or realize that we are simply not compatible for a serious romantic partnership.  I'll give it time, ....hopefully he can shirk all this irritating ambiguity and ambivalence before Valentine's Day.  If he and I are really going to be sweethearts, I want it to be clear by then that we work and that it's going somewhere solid.  That's two months.  I think it's fair because by then he will have had seven months.  That's long enough to figure out if he is in fact starting to fall in love with me, and to decide if he loves the thought that things could work out with him + me & my children & so on....  Not that I need any of those things to happen (an 'i love you' or plans for blending lives) but I need it to be clear that things are going in that direction and that he's very emotionally connected to me and that we are growing closer and learning each other better every day, which is all leading towards something. I'm not sure it will happen with him, or could (I do know I'm done trying to squeeze it out of him), but I'm also very far away from counting him out of the running.

Volleyball & I will hang out this weekend (that'll be the third time).  He's still a huge question mark for any type of potential romantic candidate, but a decidedly nice guy.  And ....he has a lot going for him I must say.   He is pretty focused on attachment parenting and aligned beliefs of pregnancy/birthing/breastfeeding, which was a major shocker (considering his age, gender, culture, and the statistical likelihood of that being the case).  He used to be in a relationship with a midwife, and he's done extensive reading and pondering of these subjects which are very important to me, so that's kind of awesome.  He's also seemingly emotionally available and a romantic, in similar ways that I am.  He is focused, even at his young (28) age, on the type of family he wants and finding the right woman to create that.  He thinks my children seem amazing and doesn't let that stop him for a second in terms of being interested in exploring things with me to see if we could be a match.  I dunno, he's very different from Cucumber.  Very, very different.  I'm going to spend more time with him, to get to know him better, before I can even say that I am considering becoming an item with him.  He isn't looking to date casually, he is focused on finding a solid, committed relationship.  I guess this saga will resolve quickly, as neither he or I want to dally half-way with the possibility forever.   In that way he's different from Cucumber, because I could see Cucumber happily casually hanging out for years on end.  Volleyball hopes to find the woman for him, and then start that whole NFL/AP family life stuff.  He's ready and he knows what he wants.  I'd even go as far as to accuse him of having babyfever.  Cucumber is...an island.  He operates totally self-sufficiently and would never really need anyone in his life.  While he thinks it sounds nice to have a family someday, the fact that he's focused on work and his band for 7 years without really looking for a girlfriend or having any desire for family life and now he's 34 and still feels like it could be 'someday' in the distant future shows that he is open to that, but it's not a huge priority.  It's not a lifelong dream.  His reluctance to date a single mom or see my children also bodes relatively poorly for him being potentially a really hands-on 'family man' kind of guy.  Which is important to me.  
 

I want another baby or two.  In the next 5 years.  And not a conventional family model which is typical for these parts, but a NFL/AP (possibly even homeschooling) one.  So, these things matter.  I want to conceive a child with someone who is over-the-moon thrilled, happiest-thing-ever, when he finds out.  I don't know if Cucumber's emotional pendula even swings that far in that direction.  Or maybe he just hasn't learned to show it, yet.  But after 34 years of emotional illiteracy, and near-total paralysis when it comes to expression, is it realistic to think he can change?

Ok, done blabbering. :)

[Phoenix~Mama]

Hmmm, Butterfly lots of stuff for you to ponder through.  But I think your last sentence kind of tells you something.  "But after 34 years of emotional illiteracy, and near-total paralysis when it comes to expression, is it realistic to think he can change?"  Most people do not change.

I'm getting nervous about my date.  I've had such a good few weeks, and yesterday was bad and had me jaded emotionally.  So far, hmm, need a clever name, we shall call him Tech, comes across as this super down to Earth, free spirited fun loving bachelor guy.  And I keep wondering, "what in the world would someone like him want to deal with someone like me and all my baggage? I should cancel and not get involved because I'm just going to end up hurt."

From some poking around some single Mom dating sites... I have found that this "push him away" mechanism is common in single moms starting to date.  How do you deal with it and just let things ride and give chances?  How do you protect your heart?

[Ione]

Perhaps I'm just cynical, but...

IMO, the question should never be: Can he change?...

The question needs to be: Is he giving me what I want and need from him right this very minute?

If the answer is "no," then the question becomes: Is what he's giving me really enough for right now and moving forward?

For right now? 

If it's not, move on. If it is "for now" then just know that he may be "Mr. Right Now" but he's not "Mr. Right"...

Moving forward? 

In other words is what he has actually, really, truly, concretely offered and done and given (and I'm not talking about presents, but of himself) and said sufficient to give up "enough"?

Do I want to settle?

If the answer's 'no', then he either gets put in "Mr. Right Now" status or you move on.

If the answer's 'yes' then go forward knowing he will not change, you are settling, and go forward carefully with your eyes wide open to what you're giving up and whether or not you realistically can give it up forever. Because the expectation has to be that you are giving it up forever.

Sure, people can and do change. But you can't ever build a healthy relationship on the premise that someone will change. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Ione 

Perhaps I'm just cynical, but...

IMO, the question should never be: Can he change?...

The question needs to be: Is he giving me what I want and need from him right this very minute?

If the answer is "no," then the question becomes: Is what he's giving me really enough for right now and moving forward?

For right now?

If it's not, move on. If it is "for now" then just know that he may be "Mr. Right Now" but he's not "Mr. Right"...

Moving forward?

In other words is what he has actually, really, truly, concretely offered and done and given (and I'm not talking about presents, but of himself) and said sufficient to give up "enough"?

Do I want to settle?

If the answer's 'no', then he either gets put in "Mr. Right Now" status or you move on.

If the answer's 'yes' then go forward knowing he will not change, you are settling, and go forward carefully with your eyes wide open to what you're giving up and whether or not you realistically can give it up forever. Because the expectation has to be that you are giving it up forever.

Sure, people can and do change. But you can't ever build a healthy relationship on the premise that someone will change. 

So very insightful.  Butterfly, I agree that if its not working, its not working - why drag it out and pretend to be something you're not?  (which may not be whats happening, but it sounds like you are trying to take a step back when thats not your style - which sounds like pretending to be something you aren't, and you should  never have to do that)

[JohnnysGirl]

I think Volleyball might be out of the running.  He & I had a meeting time (for a 5th get together to hang out) which we were sending text messages back and forth leading up to, for, say 8 hours during the 12 hours preceeding the approximate meeting time.  Then suddenly the messages just ceased, and for the next 4 hours, radio silence, and then.... it became quite clear that our meeting time had come and gone and we were not going to meet.  Weird, right?!  Why not just say, "something came up, have to catch you next time" or some other such simple white lie so that someone isn't hanging with their plans up in the air and confused as to if (and then, why) plans have changed?  So very, very rude.  Why put so much effort and interest into four get togethers and then drop the ball so spectacularly on the fifth?  Seems like a lot of wasted time and energy, to me, and if I were a guy who just wasn't that interested or whatever, I wouldn't have even bothered for the first few, and certainly wouldn't have feigned fervent enthusiasm for the fifth until just a few hours before and then vanish without even a white lie excuse and just ignore messages.  Makes me wonder if he's actually ok, or if his phone got stolen or something of the like. *shrug*

[Freedom~Mama]

So...after a year of being single I finally get to post in this thread!!!  I met someone...I actually joined POF and I thought that I wouldn't find someone on there and that it would just be a lot of weirdos, and there was but then this one guy messaged me (I will call him Guitar Boy) and we hit it off.  That was about 3 weeks ago and we talked on the phone a lot and decided to get together this past Friday night to meet in person.  Let's just say that Guitar Boy and I have a very romantic time and I really really like him!!!  We are taking things slow because we both have kids and are just going with the flow and seeing how things go.  We talk on the phone and text often and that helps since we can't see eachother that much.  I am seeing him sometime this week though and I can't wait!  He just is such a nice guy and has so many amazing qualities!

[4 in 2005]

That is great Freedom_Momma!

[JohnnysGirl]

That is awesome, Freedom Mama! 

Volleyball called and called and when I finally answered he was sorry and had a long story about how there was some crisis with people in his life that evening that we were tentatively supposed to get together and he felt too occupied to even let me know that it was no longer possible.  He is very sorry, and then we had a long talk about whether we should continue, and what the situation was.  He really wants to continue to see each other, but take things slow and cautiously, but enjoy the chemistry and the fact that we have a great time together.  I agreed that it sounds like a good plan.

Cucumber says after giving things a lot of thought, he's afraid that he just isn't hard wired to fall passionately in love and deliver what it seems like I need from a partnership, and confesses that he's starting to wonder if he isn't holding me back from finding that with someone a bit more compatible in the romantic sense.  He doesn't know if he's capable of getting that emotionally entangled and experiencing romance as intensively as I seem to be able to, and is tired of seeing it bother me, and feeling guilty about that.  We didn't come to any conclusions about discontinuing the romantic portion of our relationship and just being good friends, or what, but the dialogue is now open and we're going to think about it and continue discussing.....  

Meh.  Not the Christmas romance I would have wanted, but that's ok.  

[Phoenix~Mama]

Freedom Mama, that is so awesome!!!  :D  So good to hear you are out enjoying yourself!  You totally deserve it.  :D

Butterfly, I totally respect the way you are able to talk to the men and discuss your needs and what you will and will not settle for.  So awesome!  :) 

My date fell through.  :(  Tech guy was working on his house and took a nasty spill and fractured his knee cap.  He felt horrible and was texting me from the ER telling me how he owes me a huge IOU for a great night out.  I told him not to worry about it. 

I'm still a little bummed because our schedules are so hard to sync up, but he is still texting and calling and says we definitely have to figure something out because he really wants to meet me.

My Mom is still giving me all kinds of crap about it as she really disagrees that I should be dating yet at all.  She thinks I should wait at least a year.  I don't understand the point of putting some arbritary time on something.  I feel I'm ready.  I'm not her.  :shrug

[LorenaAZ]

I've been missing for a few days....but for good reason.  :)   Ends up the "no call no show" that I interpreted from "cyclist" was a misunderstanding.  We are actually exclusively seeing each other now.  It feels so weird to me to go from Mama-mode to woman/gf-mode!!   It is especially strange when I have to do both at once.  But it seems to be getting easier and I am feeling more relaxed about it.  This is my first relationship after getting divorced and being single for about a year and a half.  Cyclist and I met back in August of this year and we really hit it off from the get go.  My head is still kinda spinning.....most notably, we've blended incredibly well, I told my ex husband about cyclist a few days ago, cyclist met my ex husband last night, and many other things I can't think of right now.  :)

Gosh, I remember reading a post from one of the mamas here about being in the moment and enjoying just holding her friend and smelling his hair......I can totally relate.  We've been spending time together almost daily.  Even though we have connected deeply, we have both agreed to wait a while before we do the deed.......which can be so difficult at times when we try to stay in the moment (and with my new ovulating cycles driving my libido to out-of-reach heights.....lol)     I feel like I am in love; and it is scary as hell but oh-so-wonderful!  

However.....I don't want to get too eager about this.  I have been very selective for the past year and a half, but somehow still feel like there might be something better out there.  I don't know if that is a bad sign right there, or if that's just me not wanting to let go of my single life.  I really feel like I thoroughly enjoyed my time being single, growing, dating, cultivating friendships.  Cyclist and I talked about this a bit and we are very supportive of our other relationships (friends, etc.), so we shall see how this unfolds.  In the meantime...we will enjoy each day as it comes.  <3

[Devaya]

LorenaAZ, I know what you mean about not wanting to get too eager (and RESPECT for holding out on the 'deed' so far - I haven't managed that!) I'm very excited - and nervous - b/c by some miracle I am somehow going to be spending Christmas eve, most of christmas day, and boxing day with LCG! Originally I was going to be stuck on my own in my flat while DS has christmas with his dad, (as my ex had to work christmas eve and early on the 27th, so I wouldn't be able to go elsewhere and get back in time to pick DS up, esp with the snow-related transport hold ups we get in this country). but we managed to work out childcare with his aunt and uncle (who he's used to staying over with) so that I can also have a Christmas. I'm not having the 'family dinner' with LCG, it's way too early for that, we are just hanging out at his place for the weekend basically and he will go to his family dinner and I'm totally fine with having some chill time at his (lovely) place while he does that. I'm not good with being with people concentratedly for long periods, so I'm actuallly quite glad. Looking forward to lots of walks in the snow, long baths and nice meals together...and more!

We've been speaking on the phone most days and are continuing to be very open and honest with each other about how we feel and what's coming up for us. He said he really wants to spend a lot of one on one time with me at this stage while we figure out 'what we want from each other', and incorporate DS more at a later stage 'if we get serious' (although he's met him once and has invited us both to lunch at his with some other friends on New years Day). So at first I was like, Hhmmph, but when I thought about it it made sense....I want us to get to know each other properly, and I do that best when I'm in 'non Mom mode' - also he said he wants me 'to himself' which is kind of cool. I've seen how he is with my son and I'm confident that that will work when it comes down to it, but it doesn't make sense to start hanging out in a way that will be like a family, until we are sure we are a long term item. I think this weekend will be interesting and revealing...

I am quite scared of 'losing myself' and its been good (although we've really been longing to see each other) to have the past two weeks apart bc of living in different cities. We have made plans to see each other one weekend next month (as the other weekends are taken up with work on both of our sides and childcare on my side) and a couple of weeknights he is going to come down on the night DS is with his dad, and stay over. I like that he is planning things out with me! I like him a lot... anyway, mush mush!

Edited by Devaya - 12/23/10 at 10:47am