I was yelled at by ped, my 20 month old weighs 20 lbs., and was told I need to wean...PLEASE HELP! - Page 2

[Koalamom]

My ds has always been small.  He is 17 months now, and nurses all the time.  I am concerned for his weight, and I got it up well with more fatty (healthy kinds) foods, and what also helped was getting his iron up.  He was anemic too.  How is your LO's iron count?

Interesting thing is my ds is very allergic to dairy too.  After cutting it out, I realized how that was a large portion of our fat intake, and I have to put some olive oil or perhaps coconut oil in place of where I would normally put butter.  I never realized how automatic it was to put butter on everything.

I think your ped was awful, but I was recetly in your situation about the weight gain issue, and I felt the advice to help my ds gain more weight, was fine, and it was my choice to decide how to go about it.  My son just doesn't like to eat as he gets distracted very easily.  So I let him play with toys at the table while I fed him as he will just run off if I don't.  Sounds crazy I know, but way better than McD's.  My sons iron and weight have goneup enough that he is ateast over 20 lbs now and not anemic.  I just feel better about him having more weight on him so if he does throw a fit about missing a meal or gets sick and doesn't want to eat, he has some to spare. 

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Both of my kids weighed 20pds from 6months to 2yo they each only gained like 2 pds in that time frame and with dd the Dr. was fine with her weight. I didnt do wbv any more with ds after 4months.

It is very common for bfed babies to stop or nearly stop gaining weight after they get mobile. Both my kids are very normal weight now for their ages.

I would talk to the ped. about her horrible advice and if she cant act more professional then I would find a new ped. or just dont do wbv unless you intend to vax that visit so she dosnt have a chance to make you feel bad about your choice to still bfed.

[MommaLura]

I'm shocked! Recommend McDonald's really??? I would be switching peds based on that and being yelled at. First of all, he's allergic to dairy, so he's allergic to McDonald's (at least the majority). Second, you aren't getting even a portion of the nutrition needed by eating there. My ds is allergic to dairy, wheat, egg white and intolerant to much more. At three he weighs 29 lbs. Our doc was thrilled with his growth over the last year and he more than demonstrated his brilliance and activity while at our appointment (I think she really thought he was going to go through the wall, lol). Ds doesn't have a ton of foods, but he eats really well an alot. It sounds like your sweetie is eating very well and very healthy and at only 20 months I wouldn't expect a lot of food to be eaten. Remember their little tummies are the size of their fist and that's why every bite counts. Please don't wean based on such poor advice, he's still getting so much from your milk. I was told that my milk was worthless after 12 months, but I didn't listen and I bf till ds was almost 2.5 (I got pregnant and had to encourage his weaning because of a very restricted diet).

So sorry you had to go through this, mama. I know its super tough!

[hdeering]

My DD is mine through adoption. She was primarily FF, and now drinks 2 cups of milk a day or so. She's 21 months and weighs around 21 lbs. We just don't go to the doctor now that the adoption's final. :) She was born tiny and they wanted to label her FTT. She has a "friend" that's the same age and size, or a little smaller than my DD. This friend was BF. It just depends on genes and such. No amount of junk food will change it. :)

[Koalamom]

I hope my post didn't sound like I was in agrrement with the weaning and mcD's ideas.  So adding that I am only in agreement with the need to have enough weight on.  I do think that breast milk is very nutritious, but with a running around babe, sometimes they need extra calories.  Sounds liek all the foods you feed are very nutrient dense and that is what counts.  No way would my kids get fast food to gain weight. 

So a ped admits that mcdonalds makes heavyer kids.  Finally.  Now time to teach to stay away from it.

[Owen'nZoe]

Just wanted to add that head measurements are difficult to take accurately with a squirming toddler, and a difference of just a fraction of an inch can drastically change where your child falls on the charts. We had a few nervous moments at one ped visit when a 1/4 inch mis-measurement caused my son to fall off the charts completely. A quick remeasurement, and he was right back where we'd expected him to be.

[Llyra]

What I'd do-- take him to another ped, for a second opinion. And I'd do that immediately, before this other ped takes it into her head to involve child services.

First of all, any pediatrician who's recommending McDonalds is a quack.

Second of all, any pediatrician who YELLS at me has lost my respect. It's ME paying THEM to help ME with MY child. Which means that I don't get yelled at. I get reasoned discussion, with evidence to back up the doc's recommendations, and a full exploration of alternatives. That's what I'm paying for.

Third of all, seeking a second opinion is a reasonable course of action, for anybody, when they're contemplating a drastic medical intervention. And I do regard weaning a young toddler to be drastic.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. What a stressful experience to go through! I dealt with a lot of this junk when DS was a baby, because he started off small, and gained slowly. I was constantly being encouraged to wean, or at least to limit his nursing to every three hours-- like nursing less often was going to magically cause him to gain. The idea was laughable, of course, but at the time I was being made to worry so much that I almost bought into it. The same doc recommended that I get cans of Campbell's soup (which is full of MSG, mind you..) and fish out the bits of veg and meat, and feed that to DS. This was her magic solution to the problem-- feed him mushy, overprocessed canned vegetables, instead of breastmilk. FWIW, DS continues to be on the small side for his age.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue this-- some kids are just genetically small. On the other hand, sometimes slow weight gain is the first sign of a problem that needs attention-- it may be that a few tests are in order, to test for conditions that might be causing him to not absorb all of the nutrients from his food. But I don't think it sounds like a major emergency, or like he's being starved, and I certainly don't think weaning is the answer, regardless of whether there's a real problem or not.

[Toposlonoshlep]

Well, here is the update...Because I got quite a few responses with concerns over the Dr. calling CPS on me (which would be a silly thing to do...), I was really set in not closing myself off to her and explaining to her that I am not ready to wean. She recommended a blood test for lead/anemia, as well as a cardiologist visit (she heard a murmur at the last visit that she thinks is innocent, but she wants to be sure and rule it out). My concern is that the heart murmur is from anemia and potentially also responsible for slow weight gain. I didn't know that anemia could restrict growth before I posted this. Just in case, I am giving him some Floradix (which is supposed to be more bio-available than the PolyViSol I was previously giving him). I have scheduled both appointments. I told her I am not AGAINST her, but that I am defensive about breast feeding and using healthy foods to boost my kid's growth. She apologized that she came down hard on me (although she was still indignant) and told me that she has seen a lot of low-weight kids and was able to get them back on the curve. She repeated that a lot of her kids with allergies are skinny and that genetics certainly play a large part in it. She recommended we make mealtime more ceremonious and fun for him, and I think that's a great idea. Most importantly, she said that I could cut down on daytime nursing to allow him to get a taste for a variety of foods. She said to think variety, not quantity. She said she would like to see us every 2 months to monitor his growth and I agreed. Overall, I am glad I called to talk to her, because I feel as though I could work with her better without it getting "personal" like that again. Next time she gets personal, I am certainly out for good. 

I cannot thank you all enough for all of your fabulous advice and for the love. I really feel encouraged to approach this with love, patience, and instinct. You guys rock!

[hJo]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

Logic has failed when you feed your kids McDonald's to maintain their weight.

There is something wrong with that equation.

Your milk is the most calorie dense food your son eats. To take that away is failed logic.

To replace high nutrition food with low nutrition food in order to create fat (not muscle, brain, nerves, immune system, just fat) is failed logic.

Personally, I've pretty much given up on doctors. There are some great ones out there, but they seem rare enough that it's not really realistic to hold out of them. By all means find a new doc because that one treated you unprofessionally - don't forget, YOU are the customer - but from personal experience, you are going to have to draw your own conclusions about your child's health.

Do these doctors think all children were malnourished BEFORE McDonald's came along? McDonald's is a necessary part of a healthy child's diet, to keep up with their weight requirements? Our ped suggested feeding our kid as much ice cream as she wanted. Because you all know that ice cream is better for my child, both short term and long term, than breastmilk. And before we had ice cream, kids were just starving to death on their diets of pastured meat, organic vegetables, stone milled grains, cheese, etc.

I agree 100%. We use a naturopath for our toddler, but choose not to have the well-toddler visits because I can see that he is obviously thriving, brilliant, and even though some days he wants to live on his GoRaw chippies and hemp milk, he clearly not lacking in energy, stamina, etc. I see no reason to compare children to an average covering such broad developmental range. Breastfed babies can be very slow weight gainers. Our special little guy was also pretty tiny at term birth - 6 lbs 12.5 oz... and only 20 lbs from 10 mo. - 18 mo.; he went from appearing stocky & compact to lean like his dad. Only recently, has he put on 4 additional pounds. He's also never been sick with anything breast milk, homeopathy, or hydrotherapy can't handle (ear infection, diaper rash, cold), so no need to visit a doctor...or stuff him with the milk of another species. :)

If your Ped is under the impression that maintaining a specific arbitrary weight at the expense of nutrition is necessary, then she has no idea (like many medical professionals) how the fuel one puts into the body is actually metabolized. Sure garbage will maintain weight (aka: inflammation) as the liver and other organs are stressed and strained to process the junk, setting the child up for cancer, diabetes, obesity, etc. Brilliant. Sounds like a perhaps getting treated like garbage by someone who is at best incompetent would be Great a reason for taking your business elsewhere! No reason to spend the day crying over someone for who's services you are Paying. ugh! 

HUGS!!!

[Cutie Patootie]

I'm curious about what she said in regards to her most ridiculous "mcdonalds" statement.

[Toposlonoshlep]

Originally Posted by Cutie Patootie 

I'm curious about what she said in regards to her most ridiculous "mcdonalds" statement.

I didn't bring that up this time...Thought it best to just let that dissipate into the void...

[akind1]

DS is probably on the same track as yours, he has just turned a year, and not quite 19 lbs . . He has been 18lbs for the last couple months, and is slowly gaining the ounces. He was born at 6 14 oz. head measurements are really hard to obtain accurately also I think. OTOH, he is like 85th % for height.  We haven't seen the ped since the 4 month WBV since we don't vax and no one has contacted us to schedule more appt's. He seems to be on track for everything. We don't seem to have any food allergies or sensitivities.

Just wanted to let you know you aren't alone! Keep up the BF'ing! I do offer solids first during the day, and nurse primarily before and after nap times. DS seems ok with this (except the days I am in the office and he reverse cycles a bit) Sounds like you have a good game plan for the future. IMO, I like doctors for diagnositics. It is how you choose to treat what you find that matters.

[laohaire]

I'm just throwing my experience out there, because this hits upon the one thing I wish I had done differently with my DD.

My DD is small. She's around the 3rd percentile for weight. Sorry, I don't remember what percentile for height but it might be 40th. She's 5 years old now.

She was a healthy nurser. And she didn't take to solid food as quickly as I thought. By 13 months I was worried. But not because I really felt she was malnourished, but I was just worried because she was "supposed" to be eating food. I talked to the pediatrician, who as I mentioned before recommended ice cream. I was annoyed and didn't even consider his advice. (And don't regret it). He didn't say anything about nursing, possibly because it didn't even occur to him that we were still nursing, I don't think he even asked. I sought out advice from a nutritionist, hoping a nutritionist would know better than to think ice cream met a growing child's needs and set good eating habits for life. And in fact, she did not recommend junk food, though she said we could try reducing nursing to see if she would eat more. I didn't feel comfortable with that, either - I wanted her to nurse all she needed but I just wanted her to eat food too!

We did not restrict her nursing, and I'm happy about that. But the regret I have is that we were really focused on food, and I think we created some problems with that. We started offering her foods of low nutritional value in hopes that she would eat it (like Kraft macaroni and cheese). And basically we made her life one giant smorgasboard - "how about a strawberry? an olive? feta cheese?" etc. Anything she might have the urge to eat, we would serve.

Now she's 5 and a pain in the neck. She will say she wants something, we'll serve it up and she'll eat 2 bites and say she's all done. Yup, that's all our fault. Don't let it happen to you. (I think I'd have this under some control already but I also have a husband, and he is still concerned about her eating, so ...).

If I did it again, I would:

• Look at the child. Look healthy? Milestones being hit? Eyes bright? Active? I am NOT the sort to pooh-pooh issues and say "oh, everything is FIIIINE." It may be fine, but look first. Unfortunately, I don't trust doctors anymore (though I still keep giving them chances, and then I kick myself), so I really think it's down to you. I haven't read anything that you posted that concerned me, but I haven't even seen the child - you're the mom, it's up to you and your husband.
• If child is fine... then relax! Re-evaluate from time to time, but don't do as I did and set up panicky food issues. Offer your child what you eat, all mealtimes and snacktimes. Don't stand on your hand like I did. Don't start offering inferior foods in desperation like I did.

And, it's totally your choice, but I don't think reducing daytime nursing is constructive. Nursing is not the enemy. There is no urgency (except in cases where there is an obvious pathology) to get the child away from breastmilk and on to solid food. Trust the child's body to know when they are ready to take that step. His body wants to nurse. If allergies are involved, so much the better that he have all the breastmilk he wants. If caloric density is a concern, so much the better. If nutrition is a concern, so much the better. There is no better substance on earth for your son than your milk. No McDonald's, Campbell's Soup, ice cream can even touch your milk. Not even fresh organic vegetables and pastured meat can exceed your milk. Your milk is the gold standard. The rest will come in time. If your child had serious problems, they would be obvious to you.

Anyway, I don't like to tell a mama what to do, and I hope my advice didn't come on too strong, but it just kind of hit upon the mistakes I made myself. My 5 year old is healthy and fine, the only problem is she's a pain in the neck about food. Mea culpa.

[jecombs]

Glad things are going better for you!

I just wanted to bring up one more possibility...  texture aversion?  I have a friend who's son had texture aversion and would not eat many foods.  Some OT helped get him on-track with his eating and get his weight to a more comfortable level.

[fyrwmn]

hugs mama! i've been there...dd was 16lbs and ds1 was 19.? lbs at a year. both are on the taller side as well, especially dd. she just had her 5yr drs appt and is finally 40lbs. with dd, her dr had a fit, made us keep a food journal for a month, etc. she also was not very knowledgeable about bfing. we have a new dr now for the kids, just good luck because the last dr left the practice, and she is much better. the office still uses the formula fed charts which show the kids being very low %, yet they stack up around 50th percentile on the who charts. you know your lo better than the dr...if he is meeting milestones, progressing, is healthy, then i would keep doing what you're doing. i don't understand why they think stopping bfing is the answer.

[tjlucca]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

Logic has failed when you feed your kids McDonald's to maintain their weight.

There is something wrong with that equation.

Your milk is the most calorie dense food your son eats. To take that away is failed logic.

To replace high nutrition food with low nutrition food in order to create fat (not muscle, brain, nerves, immune system, just fat) is failed logic.

Personally, I've pretty much given up on doctors. There are some great ones out there, but they seem rare enough that it's not really realistic to hold out of them. By all means find a new doc because that one treated you unprofessionally - don't forget, YOU are the customer - but from personal experience, you are going to have to draw your own conclusions about your child's health.

Do these doctors think all children were malnourished BEFORE McDonald's came along? McDonald's is a necessary part of a healthy child's diet, to keep up with their weight requirements? Our ped suggested feeding our kid as much ice cream as she wanted. Because you all know that ice cream is better for my child, both short term and long term, than breastmilk. And before we had ice cream, kids were just starving to death on their diets of pastured meat, organic vegetables, stone milled grains, cheese, etc.

Time to start asking around for a BF supportive PED. Also, we only go to the doctor if someone is really sick. DD is five and super healthy (we eat a very healthy whole food diet), she has not been to the doctor since she was a baby. She gets common colds from time to time, but has never had an infection or any mayor illness, so we don't go. My perception is that doctors are for sick people. Naturalpaths, chiropractors, nutritionists are support people for maintaining wellness, IMHO. I trust my instincts with DD. I stay with her if she is sick, do rounds of herbs and probiotics and watch for worsening signs that tell me we need to see a doctor. Trust your instincts Mama.  Your DS sounds fine. If you do want to see a PED regularly, find one that supports your values. So sorry you had a rough day, Mama!

[Nicky99]

I don't know when you posted this, but I hope that you continued breastfeeding.  My son was at the 5th and 10th percentile for weight and height and has a baby at the 2nd and 5th percentile.  I was told my milk was not enough, not good enough ect.  My son is now six and now over the 25th percentile for weight and height.  He is eating more than enough.

Sounds like your son has a well balanced diet and supplementing by breastmilk is the best gift you can give him especially when he has a lactose allergy.

[OliveJewel]

Originally Posted by laohaire 

I'm just throwing my experience out there, because this hits upon the one thing I wish I had done differently with my DD.

My DD is small. She's around the 3rd percentile for weight. Sorry, I don't remember what percentile for height but it might be 40th. She's 5 years old now.

She was a healthy nurser. And she didn't take to solid food as quickly as I thought. By 13 months I was worried. But not because I really felt she was malnourished, but I was just worried because she was "supposed" to be eating food. I talked to the pediatrician, who as I mentioned before recommended ice cream. I was annoyed and didn't even consider his advice. (And don't regret it). He didn't say anything about nursing, possibly because it didn't even occur to him that we were still nursing, I don't think he even asked. I sought out advice from a nutritionist, hoping a nutritionist would know better than to think ice cream met a growing child's needs and set good eating habits for life. And in fact, she did not recommend junk food, though she said we could try reducing nursing to see if she would eat more. I didn't feel comfortable with that, either - I wanted her to nurse all she needed but I just wanted her to eat food too!

We did not restrict her nursing, and I'm happy about that. But the regret I have is that we were really focused on food, and I think we created some problems with that. We started offering her foods of low nutritional value in hopes that she would eat it (like Kraft macaroni and cheese). And basically we made her life one giant smorgasboard - "how about a strawberry? an olive? feta cheese?" etc. Anything she might have the urge to eat, we would serve.

Now she's 5 and a pain in the neck. She will say she wants something, we'll serve it up and she'll eat 2 bites and say she's all done. Yup, that's all our fault. Don't let it happen to you. (I think I'd have this under some control already but I also have a husband, and he is still concerned about her eating, so ...).

If I did it again, I would:

• Look at the child. Look healthy? Milestones being hit? Eyes bright? Active? I am NOT the sort to pooh-pooh issues and say "oh, everything is FIIIINE." It may be fine, but look first. Unfortunately, I don't trust doctors anymore (though I still keep giving them chances, and then I kick myself), so I really think it's down to you. I haven't read anything that you posted that concerned me, but I haven't even seen the child - you're the mom, it's up to you and your husband.
• If child is fine... then relax! Re-evaluate from time to time, but don't do as I did and set up panicky food issues. Offer your child what you eat, all mealtimes and snacktimes. Don't stand on your hand like I did. Don't start offering inferior foods in desperation like I did.

And, it's totally your choice, but I don't think reducing daytime nursing is constructive. Nursing is not the enemy. There is no urgency (except in cases where there is an obvious pathology) to get the child away from breastmilk and on to solid food. Trust the child's body to know when they are ready to take that step. His body wants to nurse. If allergies are involved, so much the better that he have all the breastmilk he wants. If caloric density is a concern, so much the better. If nutrition is a concern, so much the better. There is no better substance on earth for your son than your milk. No McDonald's, Campbell's Soup, ice cream can even touch your milk. Not even fresh organic vegetables and pastured meat can exceed your milk. Your milk is the gold standard. The rest will come in time. If your child had serious problems, they would be obvious to you.

Anyway, I don't like to tell a mama what to do, and I hope my advice didn't come on too strong, but it just kind of hit upon the mistakes I made myself. My 5 year old is healthy and fine, the only problem is she's a pain in the neck about food. Mea culpa.

Same thing here.  My boys (6 and 2) are tall and skinny.  Because of my oldest's extreme pickiness, DH and DM would try to bribe him with certain foods and so we have a similar situation as you.  I used to take the 2yo to a pediatrician, but when the doc started pushing iron around 6 months and saying that his weight was falling off the curve I gave that up.  I had heard stories from my MIL about DH being super skinny as a kid and "never eating" so I am not worried about it with my own kids.  DH is definitely not skinny anymore, but still remains picky, so I think that my kids either have it in their genes or are picking it up from their dad.  Since DH has coddled oldest DS's pickyness, I just let him handle feeding DS if DS is refusing to eat.

OP, I am happy that you have found a resolution with your ped.  It sounds like something that you will look back on in the future and think, "Why was I so worried about that?"  Especially since you describe your son's mind as being so healthy, he is probably just small.  Our naturopath told us that vegetarian kids are smaller than non-vegetarian kids, and when you add breastfeeding into that, no way are they going to fit on the McDonalds/formula-fed curve.