Untreatable breastfeeding pain, but no plans to stop nursing--anyone else? - Page 5

[gemasita]

I am seeing a doctor Monday for depression.  I think all of this is finally taking its toll on me too.  We have a lot of financial stress right now.  I tried to keep another baby in my home but I just couldn't handle it.  There's not much I can do, work-wise, without being able to pump.  I have the same excruciating pain while pumping so it's not just DS's latch.  I really think my nipples are traumatized and damaged.  I still can't take a shower without pain, or towel off without pain.

hiking - I'm sorry for all the pain you went through.  But thank you for sharing your story.  That is really something else that you were able to stick with it.  My DH has been super supportive too.  I am hoping that I don't get bit in the future!  I might just die.

[hikingfortruth]

Originally Posted by gemasita 

I am seeing a doctor Monday for depression.  I think all of this is finally taking its toll on me too.  We have a lot of financial stress right now.  I tried to keep another baby in my home but I just couldn't handle it.  There's not much I can do, work-wise, without being able to pump.  I have the same excruciating pain while pumping so it's not just DS's latch.  I really think my nipples are traumatized and damaged.  I still can't take a shower without pain, or towel off without pain.

hiking - I'm sorry for all the pain you went through.  But thank you for sharing your story.  That is really something else that you were able to stick with it.  My DH has been super supportive too.  I am hoping that I don't get bit in the future!  I might just die.

I remember the first time I could face the shower again.  What a joy!  My nipples were so traumatized.  I seriously recommend a bone/muscle/cartilege ointment.  It started working for me immediately and the baby can get it in his/her mouth when they feed because it's just herbs.  My right nipple was swollen for so long and is still more sensitive than the left, but it's way better and healed. 

I hated thinking about teething.  It was so hard.  I just finally had to stay in the moment and not worry about the future.  It was just too much to handle.   I'll be sending positive vibes your way.  It is a hard place to be in.  The one thing I never imagined that came along with a baby was the nursing troubles. 

[gemasita]

So that ointment really worked?  I do think I'm having nerve pain in my nipples.  Because the pump feels the same as nursing.

[hikingfortruth]

Yeah, it worked like magic.  I applied it after nursing every time and sometimes in between nursings when sensitive.  The ointment plus some sun exposure everyday sped the healing like crazy.  It was http://www.drchristophers.com/ointments/complete-tissue-bone-2-ointment.php  exactly.  I tried a lot and this was the only one that worked.  There's a scary FDA mandatory warning, but comfrey is really safe in my opinion and my baby had no issues whatsoever from getting a bit in her mouth.  You can wipe it off if worried, I guess. 

[aphel]

Welcome new moms, and sorry you've found yourself in this position.

Gemasita, I think it's really interesting, the idea of long term nerve damage, it certainly would explain your pain during pumping. And I am so, so, so, sorry that you feel all of this has brought you to the brink of depression. But I so, so, so get it. I think I nearly broke from the frustration of it all, especially in the beginning. Let us know how if you end up seeing the neuro, and check back in otherwise as well.

Hikingfortruth, I'm glad you've found some relief! I also have one nipple that is more problematic than the other. Unfortunately, that side is the side that DD prefers, and it produces the most milk . . . . go figure.

An update on me - I had stayed away from this thread for a while because I really believed that out troubles were coming to an end. S's mouth has continued to get bigger, and had made such a huge difference in her latch. HUGE difference. And I finally was able to beat the thrush. But then it came back. And we beat it again. And now its BACK. There is some sort of repository of evil-never-will-die candida spores in this house, that lie in wait for me, ready to jump out and land straight on my nipples the moment that I'm finally starting to feel like things are turning around.

Anyone else still reading this? I'd love to hear how everyone is doing.

[hikingfortruth]

aphel- One of my friends struggles with thrush just like you.  She's always experiencing flare ups and nothing has really worked to cure it yet.  I'm so sorry that you have to experience that.  May good vibes rest on your nipples now and forever!

[Alenushka]

I had amazingly strong needle like pain  at letdown every time I nurse with my first child. Vasospasm

I have Raynaud's Syndrome it is usually in my hands but it was explained to me that this can manifest in nipples as well.

I did what I do for my hands. I kept my breast warm by keeping room temp warm when I nursed/  It got a bit less severs.  It was almost zero with my second son.

Here:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html

[gemasita]

Well, I went to the neurologist yesterday.  It was SO worth the trip, even though I was there for four hours.  That doctor was wonderful...and very smart.  She first pricked all around my breasts to find where the line of delineation with the sensitivity was.  I guess that told her what nerves were involved.  And then something about the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems...I didn't catch all of that.  She said it was definitely nerve pain.  She even had an explanation for why I get shooting pains when I take a deep breath and had me hold my breath and get this, my pain lessened.  She also put lidocaine on my nipples to show me that the nerves involved were deeper than skin level.  When she put the lidocaine on, I had NO change in my pain level.

So she said it was like my nipples were having a migraine headache, which I guess is vasodilation.  She said there's not any research on this and she's just starting to try and understand it (she took pictures and was going to write it up for a journal).  She prescribed me propanolol, a beta blocker, and Cymbalta, because I guess it works on the part of the brain that involves these nerves.  She said to give it 3 weeks or so and if this doesn't work, she will know what to try next.  She said she is not going to let me continue to be in pain.  I have hope for the first time since DS was born.  I hope I get relief soon!

[aphel]

Woot Gemasita!

I'm so happy for you! Keep us updated, I want to know how this turns out for you!

(So many exclamation points, but so called for!)

[K'sMama]

((HUGS)) to all the mamas dealing with nursing pain.  My first was born in 2006 and we had serious issues from the beginning - bad latch, poor suck and after a few days excruciating pain for me every time DD latched on.  I was eventually diagnosed with Raynauds and started medication which helped the pain to some degree.  THings started getting better around 4 months but the pain never went away entirely.  It was tough and definitely caused bonding issues.  I stuck it out for two years, but was honestly relieved when it was all over with.  My second was born a little over a year after I weaned my first and that breastfeeding relationship has been absolutely amazing!  We had a good latch from the beginning and never any pain.  That year break from nursing was enough time to heal the nerve damage that had been done.  Just wanted to post to let everyone know that it won't always be this bad and that successive nursing relationships won't necessarily have that same level of pain involved.

((HUGS)) to all and good luck.

[cww]

Hi everyone,

I've been following this thread off and on for several months, and thought I'd join in now. 

gemasita - I'm so glad to hear that you've found a reasonable explanation at last!!  I really hope that treatment works, and soon!. :)

I've posted about our issues in other threads, but the gist is that our daughter is almost 5 months old, and had an undiagnosed posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie that finally got corrected at about 3 months by a pediatric dentist who uses a laser to do revisions.  We had strong burning/searing pain while feeding from the first moment she latched on after birth, which progressed to a constant excruciating burning feeling all the time.  I also ended up with constant vasospasms (during and in between feedings) and painful letdowns.  After seeing two lactation consultants to no avail, I started using a nipple shield at about 10 days, and wasn't able to get off it again until our daughter had the tongue tie procedure.  (In the meantime, I got treated for yeast repeatedly, for an unusual bacterial infection that showed up in a nipple culture, and took drugs for vasospasm).  The first week our daughter gained weight well, but after that, we had to pump and supplement to keep her weight gain up - after the tongue tie procedure, she immediately gained a pound over several weeks.  She was feeding for 1-1.5h before the procedure and I could never tell when she stopped "feeding effectively" because it all sounded the same - after the procedure, I was finally able to feed her without the nipple shield, I could audibly hear her gulping milk, and she now can eat in less than 10 minutes sometimes (but never takes more than 15-20 min to eat). 

The pain got better right away after the procedure, but it was still there at a lower level, and it has persisted for the last 2 months.  I can tell now that it is from nipple trauma b/c my nipple comes out in the shape of a lipstick or a wedge with a white line across the tip after she is done feeding.  The good and hopeful news is that it is bearable now (sometimes not even very noticeable), and if it never goes away, I don't think it will harm our nursing relationship (unlike in the early days, where it hurt so badly that I hated feeding her, and dreaded it so much - and when she was grumpy and hungry all the time b/c she could never get enough milk!), but I am still hoping that it will either gradually go away on its own, or that we'll be able to cure the pain for good.  We've tried some suck training exercises recommended by an LC, but it just seems to make her angry, and I don't feel like it is really doing anything - I certainly don't notice that it helps the pain when she nurses immediately afterward.  I guess I do want to say that even if the pain never goes away completely, it does seem that if it at least recedes enough, the nursing relationship can still be enjoyable - I feel that this is where we are right now.  It's possible that the pain has gradually improved, but I just can't tell b/c it's too hard to compare. 

For those of you struggling with yeast, I thought I might mention a few things - no idea if they are relevant to your situations, but just in case they might help...

I had bad yeast issues for years (unrelated to BF, since our daughter is our first child) - I took drugs and herbs for years and was on diets free of all natural and added sugars for a year, and while all of those things helped a little to temporarily beat back the yeast, for me there was an underlying issue that prevented any of it from permanently curing my issues.  I went for about 5 years with an undiagnosed case of mercury poisoning, and when I was finally diagnosed and treated for that, the yeast gradually went away (and now I don't have yeast issues much anymore, even with the hormones of pregnancy and BFing) - the treatment itself caused flare-ups, and my recovery wasn't a straight line, so it wasn't always clear that I was getting better, but a year later I was much, much better.  Mercury poisoning itself isn't really treatable while BFing or pregnant (and the most accurate tests - challenge tests using urine, for example - aren't safe during pregnancy or BFing b/c they can release heavy metals into your system if you have high levels), but for those of you with recurrent yeast issues - if I were in your shoes, I'd try to find a doctor who would test me for heavy metal poisoning after I was done BFing just to see if that could be an issue.  Or maybe there is some other underlying condition that could be making your system more prone to yeast infections?  I don't know that my experience is relevant to anyone else, but I found that for myself - the body's underlying tendency is to heal and recover, so if some treatment helped, but then the infection just came back, it seemed to me to indicate that there was an underlying problem making my body's default state to be the infection rather than for it's default state for it to be healthy, and that once that underlying issue was really gone and my body had time to heal on its own, yeast and other issues went away on their own without treatment.  Just my experience.  Maybe also if one could see an alternative practitioner who specializes in things like heavy metal poisoning and yeast issues, they might be able to do some kinds of effective treatments even while BFing.  Anyway, best of luck to everyone struggling with this stuff - I know it can be really nasty and painful. 

I hope everyone else on here finds solutions to their pain issues, or that they just improve gradually on their own!  It is good, though, to have some sympathetic company, when one is struggling with pain and difficulties, so I'm grateful for this thread...

[gemasita]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I had amazingly strong needle like pain  at letdown every time I nurse with my first child. Vasospasm

I have a cramp on the side of my right breast during letdown.  A cramp!  Can't I have something happen without pain?

[gemasita]

I just wanted to post an update.

After being on Cymbalta and propanolol (twice a day) for about 3 weeks, I wasn't having any relief.  Called the nurse and she said to go up to three/day on the propanolol and to give the Cymbalta another week or two to take full effect.  In that two weeks, I DID have relief!  I noticed that I don't cringe when DS latches on!  And I can sleep while nursing pretty well!  The nurse called again and I told her I wasn't pain-free but doing MUCH better!  She said I could also try Delsym (cough medicine) twice a day and that might help some too.  She said it would be subtle but it helps with "wind-up pain," like coughing is also a "wind-up" type of reaction.  I just started that yesterday.  Anyway, my nipples just feel very sensitive now, but much better than before.  So, things are looking up!

[cww]

gemasita, I was so glad to see your update!  I hope things continue to go well with the treatment - that is such good news. :)