Questions about family IQ dynamics, when you are a gifted wife/Mom......

[bobcat]

****EDIT---- I am going to leave my original post as I originally posted it. But I want to add a few things. First, I'd ask that you also read my two posts on page 2, and my post on page 4. They clarify some of what I didn't say in this post, that could explain a lot (my husband's ADD, the fact that I suffer from OCD and various personality disorders, etc).

Secondly, when I wrote this post, I was literally spilling my brain onto a page. I probably should have edited myself better. I probably shouldn't have used the phrase "dumb myself down," because I realize that it is offensive. I was PMS-ing when I wrote this, and wasn't using the best judgment, or the best editing skills. I was just eager to get my thoughts out of my head so I could vent them somewhere.

Even though I seem elitist and judgemental and stuck on myself, it's not as bad as this post makes it sound. I think I went overboard, because in a way, I was venting years of frustration. Have you ever vented, and it makes you sound a lot worse than you are, because you were venting the dramatic version of how it seems in your head? Anyways, years of frustration, like I said.

Given that, I do have some serious issues, so I understand the "bleh" reaction some people have to what I said. I will take ownership, that what I said is offensive.  Even re-reading it, I cringe. But please understand, I am trying to work through issues. Please be kind. Once I am a parent, I'm sure I won't feel this or that way about my kids, but I do still have fears, and obviously need help understanding different types of people. Most of my fears stem from the extreme differences between my husband and myself (which I still haven't adjusted to) coupled with my stubborn and anxiety-prone personality.

--------------------

This is actually my first post. I don't have children yet (happily married), but I've been reading in this community because we may start a family soon (or we may not), and I'm interested in learning about many of the issues talked about here (vaccines, eliminating toxins, other crunchy things).

I stumbled upon this gifted forum because I was a gifted child, and I have a lot of questions surrounding this topic. The questions are targeted towards parents who have higher IQ;'s; it seems that a lot of parents in this forum probably do.......

Basically, I grew up in a family where we all had high intelligence, all 4 of us (2 kids, 2 parents)  in the family, yet we weren't the type of smarties that had a hard time fitting in with our peers. Just the kind that process things on a higher level, and normally (almost always) have to dumb themselves down for others (something I've been doing all my life, to the point that it's pretty automatic). Around my family was one of the only places I DIDN'T have to dumb myself down. Yet, my parents were hard-working regular people, not really the "doctor/lawyer/professor/wine-tasting" type.

Just a little antecdote to give you an idea: At around 12-13 months, I was not only speaking in full sentences, but I had all my picture books memorized (pausing for page turns) and could recite them, in full sentences, not skipping a word. I was never encouraged to do this or coached, I just memorized my books because my Mom did read to me, as most parents do.

Anyways.....

I always grew up thinking I would marry someone with an IQ close to mine, and highly communicative like me. Within my family, we really enjoy a quick-moving, witty conversation, full of the kind of humor that I normally find goes right over some people's heads (the finer nuances of it). Or, leaving humor out of it, just the kind of deep philosophical discussions that others might shy away from. My husband doesn't quite fit in with my family's "highly functional" (intelligence-wise) dynamic, but we still love him, and treat him as we would anyone who isn't us, which is with respect.

My husband's intelligence seems to be pretty average. He seems to be above average in math (doing well in things like calculus, physics, etc, and scoring way above average in math on standardized testing), but when I'm just "conversing" with him, to me, he seems to be right about average, if not, a little below average, in how he communicates. Both his ability to communicate, and his willingness to follow my "complex/deep" tangents, and want to keep that kind of conversation going.

Anyways....this has left me wondering where our kids will fall. I just hate to give up the idea of that intellectually-stimulating family life in my NEW (soon to grow?) family, that I had in my old family. And I hate to admit it, but I'm a little fearful I won't be able to relate to my future kids in the ways I always expected I would (on an intellectual level). .I just think back to all the friends in high school I merely "tolerated" but was really yawning the whole time. Will I experience that same type of frustration that comes with trying to reason with someone who just "doesn't get it"? I realize children have different levels they operate on, but even as a child, my Mom and I or my Dad and I would have deep discussions about theoretical things, and it was really one of my greatest joys, to connect with them like that. I can't imagine not connecting with my future children like that, but the reality is, I can't connect with my husband like that.

At the least, I'd want them to be good communicators (sort of genetically, as in, they have the ability to meet me close to my level when we talk), but my hubby doesn't really fulfill that (it's just something we've kind of worked around). I know it begs the question, "how do you tolerate your hubby?" It's a long story. We just work as life partners, kind of in the way that opposite attract. But I don't know if I could handle 4 other mini-non-communicators, and then I'd feel soooo outnumbered.

I have this mental image of me sitting at Thanksgiving dinner with my adult children, and it feeling how I feel when I don't have anyone near my intelligence in the room/group....that kind of isolated/bored feeling (not that that is bad; I adapt to it; but I just never thought I would have to around my own family). That is how I feel when I go to Thanksgiving at my husbands' family's. Whereas with my family, I'm always finally excited to connect on a deeper level and not have to dumb myself down.

I realize the people in this forum DO have gifted children, so my worry is kind of moot for you, but I am assuming quite a few of you are gifted yourselves. I'm wondering if you ever thought of the prospect of what life would be like if you were the only "gifted" one in your new family?

I hope this isn't coming across as snobby, because that isn't me. It's just that, these are my inner-most worries, and I need someone else that understands.

Do you all have "gifted" spouses? Could I be wrong in assuming my husband's intelligence is quite lower than mine, since he IS good at math, but just a poor wordsmith? (by poor wordsmith, I mean, if you saw an essay he wrote, you'd assume his IQ was 100)

Do your children's IQ's end up being more like an average (mean) of you and your spouse's, or is it more like....some kids get the higher IQ, some get the average IQ? (It's hard to tell by looking at my parents and us, since both parents are high IQ).

I just need some advice........I hope I haven't offended anyone......thanks.

PS---I am writing this at like 3 AM, after being up way too long. It rambled a lot, so forgive me if it doesn't flow well. I went back and deleted a lot of the wordy-ness, but I realize it's still wordy.

I also want to wrap up by saying that I certainly don't think I am in any way superior to others. I am just trying to find others who can relate to where I'm coming from....i.e., what it is to be "gifted" in a world where you aren't "average" or "the norm." But the problem is, it's YOUR norm, and like all humans, we want the luxury of being understood on our level.

Edited by bobcat - 12/7/10 at 7:21pm

[physmom]

I have to wonder if my father thought the same thing before having me.  My parents both come from intelligent families but with two VERY different types of intelligence.  My mom's side is very math orientated and pretty visual-spatial.  Last time I was visiting my uncle he pulled up the family genealogy and I was just shocked about how far back my family was filled with engineers, mathematicians, etc.  We did have some judges/lawyers too but I guess there's a lot of logic in that also.  Many of my family members seem to be good artists, though, but I know they struggle with stuff like reading.  While my mom will have some crazy philosophical conversations with me I can't get her to read any of the millions of books I go through.  

On the other hand, my father's side is definitely literature and music orientated (and much more auditory-sequential).  Just to give you an idea my grandma and him used to send back and forth newspaper typos that they had found for fun.  That's a pretty big contrast to my mom who can barely spell her own name!  I don't know as much about their genealogy BUT my dad has a lot of brothers and sisters and they ALL are excellent musicians and very, very well-read.  

I'm their only child (they divorced shortly after I was born) but I'm pretty well-balanced between the two.  I would say I'm more on the visual-spatial side of things (and ended up in a math related field) BUT I'm a voracious reader and love to write and play music even if I can't spell very well. I get along with both sides of my family fairly well, although I do think I click more with my mom's side.  My dad's side is great but I was never the cheerleader/football player type and for some reason all my cousins are.  

Genetics is such a funny thing.  You really don't know what to expect.  While DD initially looked the spitting image of DH, she now is more of a mix between us (but still strongly resembles him).  I thought when it came to her milestones and early personality she was more like DH too but then my mom found an old letter from my dad when I was 18 months old and she was basically exactly like I was at that age (even down to the spitting massive amounts of half chewed food out, yuck!).  Even the parts of her that are not at all like me I have absolutely grown to love (doesn't mean our days are all roses and sunshine but we get through them).  I think it's also worth mentioning that a child's personality is NOT entirely ingrained at birth.  DH barely ever reads fiction but he was never, ever read to as a child so he doesn't have a basis for it.  DD loves all types of books (as do I) but she's been read to non-stop from birth.  These things do play a role.  

I should say, I'm not a fan of hot-housing or pushing kids to learn a certain thing, especially at a young age (it doesn't sound like you are either) but I DO think that the environment plays a role and that a loving, interesting environment will help a child to reach their full potential (whatever that might be).  I'm also sure that other moms with more than one child will come on here and tell you that every kid is different so the chance of you having four clones of your DH is pretty unlikely!  I know my half-sister and I are extremely different (although we get along well) and my mom had completely different challenges in raising the two of us.

[SubliminalDarkness]

I have two sons. They both look very similar, but my older son is mentally me to a T and my younger son is a carbon copy of my DH. But, unlike my DH, my younger son is a voracious reader as am I(and always have been). But with my older son... holy cow, it's uncanny the extent to which he is manifesting the same behaviors and mental/emotional strengths of mine. There's not been any coaching or steering or anything else, it's just what it is. And other people who are around us pick up on it quite quickly.... that DS1 is like me, and DS2 is like DH. 

I can't really speak to much on the "non-gifted" spouse thing. My DH is hard to figure out. He IS absolutely intelligent, but he is, IMO, very hampered by certain philosophical beliefs he's adopted and refuses to budge from. It's like he refuses to think past these "beliefs" he's created, and it can be frustrating to converse with him. His parents also did not encourage him in ANY way academically, and he was a very poor student. But again, while it's hard to be sure, I don't think it was because of lower intelligence or not being smart enough, it was that no one even attempted to relay to him the importance of learning and being successful, so instead he goofed around and made trouble. And that problem just festers. 

He is now a very quick learner, and he has been very successful in several careers he's had. But we're not on the same level in some things, and it just is what it is. I pursue my strengths on my own, he on his. 

[GuildJenn]

I would suggest some therapy for you before you have kids.

It sounds like your family of origin has really self-defined along one of the (several) axes of intelligence and that your history as a gifted child is leading you down a road that could be really detrimental to your own family. As someone who had a daughter who, had she survived, would have been profoundly brain-damaged I have to tell you that not only are genetics no guarantee, there are many other factors that can result in kids who do not fit a norm in either sense (general population, or the norm for your family).

Kids come out different from us as well as the same and part of being a parent is creating an environment where that is okay. It's not that you have to give up your preferred mode of living to raise kids, but you will need to be flexible to their needs - not out of tolerance or obligation but because you see the human beings they are.  It's not as hard as it sounds theoretically, but getting rid of some of your baggage now will help.

As a PP said, how your family works will impact on how your children grow, but it's not a guarantee - both my sister and I were read to and raised in a very book-rich environment from an early age (I actually started reading before age 3) and I'm a reader and she's not. That said, she is the more traditionally successful of the two of us and has much higher social intelligence, perhaps partly because she was not as defined by 'giftedness' as I was.

[Roar]

Welcome to MDC.

I agree with the suggestion of therapy. It would be a good idea to sort some of this out and get to a place where you can approach parenthood from a more mature place. While some of that can only happen through experience, there is a value in working through some of your stuff first.

While this is on the surface a gifted issue, really what you are describing is similar to what a lot of new parents have trouble sorting out. It is the same stuff that causes parents to be crushed when they have a clumsy kid when they'd been planning to raise a sports star. Or, when they have a spirited boundary pushing kid when they'd told themselves for years in the grocery store "my kid will never act like that." Or, to be crushed when they wanted a popular kid and get a quiet bookish nerd. These thought patterns can be really destructive. These expectations can hurt your kid and they can deny your family happiness. There are no guarantees in childhood. You get what you get and it can all change overnight.

For me personally some of the greatest parts of parenting have been the unexpected as it is through those experiences I have grown and deepened as a person. It has allowed me to develop beyond just that quick witted person you are describing and to grow in many ways including emotionally. The child I'm parenting is NOTHING like what I would have described ahead of time that I wanted. In pretty much every way he's different. If you'd asked me ahead of time I would have said I'd like a highly verbal, spirited, sassy, nonconformist extrovert, jock of a daughter who loved politics. Instead I got a sweet, uncoordinated, introverted boy who loves math. And, you know what, he's exactly the right kid for me.

[no5no5]

I have a few thoughts. 

My first thought is that your kids may be way smarter than you...but they're still not going to be able to converse with you at your level for years & years.  You may have a year or more in which they hold up their end of the conversation exclusively in cries and giggles.  And, in fact, they may end up being so much smarter than you that they don't have the patience to talk to you. 

The attitude that you have, that only gifted people are fun for you to talk to (and that people will always "get" you if they're gifted), does not mesh well with my experience.  And though I can identify with the frustration you felt being in school, surrounded by ND people and being forced to do schoolwork at their level, that is not something I have felt since then.  I don't feel it at the dinner table, even when I am dining with my ND friends or relatives or in-laws, and I certainly don't feel it when I am dining with a child, gifted or not.  I have also met many gifted people I find to be extremely annoying and who I'd hate to have to eat a meal with.

So will you have a good dynamic with your own children?  That's up to you and up to them.  IMO, intelligence has nothing to do with it.

Now, all that said, I can understand wanting to have children who share your traits.  I'm glad my DD is gifted, and she does fit in better with my family because of it (since DH & I are both gifted).  On the other hand, we are also both tall and so far it seems like DD won't be.  Before she was born, perhaps that would have bothered me, but after she was born nothing about her could have bothered me.  I know you don't get this yet, because you're not yet a mother, but when DD was born she could have been profoundly mentally and physically disabled, and it would not have changed one bit the love I have for her.

Finally, I have to say that unless you know your own IQ score and that of your husband, I don't think you know your relative intelligence.  And I don't think that it matters.  If you get each other and it works, why wouldn't you assume that you could make it work with your own children? 

[whatsnextmom]

How well you do with another person has more to do with personality than anything. My brother and I are both gifted and we NEVER meshed. Most of my many cousins had the label but we barely tolerate each other as we were all raised so differently. My DH is gifted and has 3 gifted sisters and he only really connects with two of them. My kids are both gifted but they don't fill my need for connection and conversation. My eldest is incredibly private and shares little. My youngest is my little buddy but his thought processes are so different from mine that we aren't often on the same page on things. Plus, they are kids (10 and 13.) They don't have the life experience to really connect with me as an equal. DH and I are magic though and yes, we are both gifted but more than that, we are truely compatible personalities and I adore him. I have, over the years, collected a wonderful group of friends, some gifted, some not and I look to them as well as DH for the different sorts of intellectual and emotional stimulation I need. It really isn't the job of our children to provide that. 

Do I ever feel out of place intellectually? Sometimes, but only when I'm with a group of people who have willfully remained ignorant... not with people who may be of average intelligence but have a healthy curiousity in the world around them.

It is normal to fear that your kids will be too much for you to handle. I had scads of dreams that my eldest would be smarter than me and I'd be unable to keep up with her. While she's certainly more accomplished than I ever was at her age, my fear that I'd be unable to parent her was totally unfounded. My youngest was different because he had several markers for a genetic disorder. My only fear was that he wouldn't survive... the fact that he might be mentally impaired was the least of my fears. He turned out to be a healthy little boy thankfully.

Edited by whatsnextmom - 12/2/10 at 10:24am

[eepster]

What I see from your post, isn't that your Dh is less intelligent than you, but that you only see one way of being intelligent.  Intelligence isn't a one dimensional thing, it is complex.  That's why IQ tests have a bunch of subsections.  

Even if intelligence were a simple thing that could be easily quantified, it also isn't 100% genetic.  Environment plays a roll also.  Environment is especially influential when it come to verbal ability (one of the reasons many admissions tests to gifted kindergartens put little or no wait to verbal ability, since it selects mostly based on socio-economic level.)

My mom spent her entire marriage claiming to be much smarter than my dad, but trust me she wasn't.  Don't get me wrong, my mom was smart and all, but really my dad's very smart too.  The thing is, my mom wasn't very good at getting other people (I suspect she may have been aspie, but was done with school before such things were looked for.)  She just was unable to understand the things dad was good at and therefore wrote them off as unimportant.

You kids will be what they will be.  Two super intelligent people, with perfect genes and provide the perfect stimulating environment, can end up with a child with an IQ below 70.  Two pretty dim people, who just park the kid in front of the TV can end up with a brilliant child.  What actually matters, is if they love, value and meet the needs of that child.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by bobcat 
 My husband doesn't quite fit in with my family's "highly functional" (intelligence-wise) dynamic, but we still love him, and treat him as we would anyone who isn't us, which is with respect.

Please read this comment and imagine what you'd think if someone said it to you. It sounds so awful that I don't even have anything constructive to say other than I actually feel sorry for your husband if he knows you feel this way. He's not your pet or the paper boy. He's your life partner.

You need to do some serious soul-searching about why you 1) feel you're so much better than every single person around you save your parents and sibling and 2) why you married someone you clearly feel is beneath you. I don't think this concern is about your future children at all but rather about how you've been set up by your parents (and maybe educators as well?) to think you're just so damned smart that no one you've ever met compares. You say that you don't feel superior, but your post certainly comes across that way.

[elus0814]

It sounds like you think of your husband as someone who's slow but that you have decided to take into your 'gifted' fold as a charity case. I can't say I have any advice other than to really think about how this attitude could affect your husband. I can't imagine that you want him to feel unintelligent or for your future children to see him as intellectually inferior to them. That could make for a difficult family dynamic. My husband and I both have high IQs with mine being just a couple points higher than his. Our children's intelligence varies, a couple are better at math and another is better at word, but we treat them all the same and try to never make one feel different. My advice would be to forget about IQ points and relax, does it really matter if your husband isn't able to join you at your next mensa meeting?

[Solanamama]

Wow gifted bobcat. After reading your post I sat mentally composing an incredibly witty and snarky response and then remembered this is not the place for snarky, but for women and mothers to provide support and understanding for each other.  Please spend some time in reflection either on your own or with a competent professional before you embark on the journey to motherhood. Believe me, once you become a mother, it is no longer all about you and how to meet your intellectual needs. It just breaks my heart to think of a child growing up in an environment where he or she is considered not good enough.

[puddle]

Don't have time for a detailed response, but wanted to throw out a couple of things that jumped out at me from your post.

You didn't state your IQ, but I suspect that maybe you and your family of origin are all profoundly gifted.  There is a big difference between profoundly gifted and moderately gifted, so if that is the case, then I can understand how you could have a harder time relating to people with average IQs.  While I can have wonderful and intellectually stimulating conversations with people of average intelligence, I do feel a disconnect with people who are below average sometimes, so perhaps that is what you feel with people who are of average intelligence if you are PG. 

You mention several times that you have to "dumb yourself down" around other people outside of your family.  You are not comfortable being yourself around anyone outside of your own family.  If you stop attempting to dumb yourself down to fit in, then you have a better chance of finding people with whom you really will fit in.  It sounds like maybe you learned to do that as a survival technique when growing up, and maybe you should try unlearning it to see how it works out?

It sounds like the biggest issue is that you have a need in your life that is unfulfilled.  You need intellectually stimulating conversation, and you are hoping that eventually your children will fulfill that need.  They may, but not for awhile, and as others have said, there are no guarantees.  I think you should work on finding a way of meeting this need in your life because unless your own needs are met, it will be much more difficult for you to meet the needs of your children.  For myself, I have a wonderful group of friends that I primarily chat online, as well as a handful of local friends that I can see in person.

Sorry so choppy--on my way out the door.  Welcome!

[marimara]

Here's another perspective. Instead of thinking of other people as gifted or not, I tend to view people through the lens of personality theory, specifically Myers Briggs (MBTI).   That being said, my daughter is a perfect combination of my type and my husbands type.  She has a little bit of me and a little bit of him, and there's a wildcard in there that is completely HER.  I am INTP, he is ISTJ, dd is INFJ (what I think now, of course children grow and change and over time this opinion of mine may change).  We are both introverts, she is undeniably an introvert.  I am intuitive, he is sensing, I'm not exactly too sure of this component just yet but I'm leaning towards N.  She's a feeler and we are not.  That's the part of her that is unique to her.  She is an individual separate from us even though she came from us.  She is Judging like her father, unlike me.  So I wanted to offer this explanation about people because simply viewing people as gifted or not gives a weak and incomplete picture.  MBTI theory certainly isn't perfect either but it is a more complete snapshot of someone's personality IMO.  What you are describing is personality and not IQ level.  I've met people with IQ's the same as mine but found them to be complete asses or they were interested in different things.  Interpersonal dynamics is about personalities.  Bottom line.

[GoBecGo]

I type this with my 4yo running in and out of the kitchen and my 6mo rolling on the floor.  BOTH of them might be more intelligent than me (i am not a genius, IQ 146, so kind of borderline with "bright").  DP is brighter than me, and in all the ways i lack (maths mainly! LOL).  XP is IQ-higher than normal, but not as high as me and he is very gifted musically (i've got receptive amusia so he's way way beyond me in that regard) and DD1 has inherited his musical abilities.  

Honestly, i would think carefully before having kids.  My DD1 is DEFINITELY as bright as me (examples, age 28months the guy came to read the electricity meter and when he told her what he was there for she fetched him a measuring tape, she is linguistically sophisticated, yesterday her step-dad told her he felt it was too dark to go out and she replied "be that as it may, i am going out to play" with a smile).  But she is NOT interesting, intellectually, to raise.  She is hard work.  She asks me questions i know the answers to.  She asks me them 300 times until she has the answer EXACTLY how she wants it, in her store of knowledge.  It is boring.  It is frustrating.  It is sometimes infuriating.  One day, when she's 20, we might be conversing on an intellectual level which would fulfill me, but if i'd had her for that reason or even with that as a consideration i would be VERY unhappy with my task of raising her and potentially setting myself up for a huge fall.  Ditto the baby.  I love my kids, truly, i would do anything for them, but they aren't stimulating or worthy intellectual peers at the moment, and i can see when they are of an age that they might be they may well be SO far beyond me that they won't have time to waste entertaining their boring mother.

PP's are correct, there is no point in having kids for you.  My intellectual needs are met across a broad number and type of people.  My partner meets some, friends meet many more, some are met on here!  And some of my friends now are very average, IQ wise, and honestly, it took parenthood for ME to mature enough to appreciate those people as they deserve.  I used to think less intellectual people were dull, but i now realise i was so busy racing off with my tangential convoluted thoughts i failed to see them for what they were - fascinating, wonderful, interesting but DIFFERENT TO ME in a way that it took me a long time to be mature enough to appreciate.

I kind of think parenthood is a great leveller, for this reason.  The tasks of parenting are mostly boring, repetitive, hard work and thankless.  It doesn't matter how many books one read (or wrote) in coming to decisions on HOW to parent, the actual task is still often a grind.  

Also, i kind of felt about XP like you do about your DH.  I realise now that a) we were a bad match because i was unwilling to accept i had intellectual needs from a partner he couldn't/wasn't meeting (my mother was less intellectual than my father and i - very intelligent, astute, practical and courageous, but not intellectual, and the weird dynamic this created made ME feel like i should be able to treat everyone as an intellectual equal and it was snobbery not to, i now realise i SHOULD be able to appreciate everyone on their individual merits, but also that if i have needs within a relationship i do myself no favours by trying to deny them), and b) because of that "he's not as smart" attitude i had i was actually unable to appreciate his many other qualities.  Don't get me wrong, we were NEVER going to be a good match, but it was no-one's fault and i tried to make it (in my head) his fault for not being smart enough, or my fault for being so demanding on that level - in fact both of those are true, but neither were anyone's fault and it got VERY messy and hurtful for us both when we behaved like they were.  I think relationship therapy might be a good step for you.

[cappuccinosmom]

I think you probably should not try guessing your husband's intelligence based on his communication style.

Personality plays a part in that too, as well as upbringing.  I've known some highly intelligent people who were extremely curmudgeonly with their words.  There's also the matter of different types of intelligence.  Perhaps social intelligence is not a forte for either you or your husband, but he's got a head for numbers and you've got an overall academic ability above most of the rest of us.

As for your kids, you'll probably get some sort of mix.  Either they'll all fall somewhere in between you and your husband, or you'll get a couple like you, and a couple like him.  If you provide a highly communicative atmosphere and model that type of communicative relationship, more than likely they'll lean more towards your style.  However, if you are looking for intellectual peers, it would be terribly unfair to burden your children with that expectation. That's not a child's job, to fulfill their parents intellectual (or emotional, or physical) needs.  Rather, it is the *parents* job to make sure the needs of a child are met so that he or she has the opportunity to develop into a functional adult who can eventually meet their own needs. 

[Freeman]

Just have a second but wanted to say quickly that educational background or extensive knowledge in an area of interest does not equal IQ. My DH and I studied very different things and have totally different careers...he doesn't have too much knowledge about what I studied; I don't have any knowledge about what he studied. If I predicted his IQ based only on what he knows about my areas of interest, it wouldn't be an accurate assessment of his IQ. Likewise, if he based my IQ on what I  know about math/engineering, I would definitely fall short. In reality, I'd be willing to bet that we have a pretty similar IQ. We've both thought for a while now that our ds is way smarter than we are...

Edited by Freeman - 12/2/10 at 12:09pm

[RiverTam]

Could I be wrong in assuming my husband's intelligence is quite lower than mine, since he IS good at math, but just a poor wordsmith? (by poor wordsmith, I mean, if you saw an essay he wrote, you'd assume his IQ was 100)

Yes. Your husband could have strong gifts in visual/spatial/math and be gifted. Some people who are strongly visual/spatially oriented prefer that method of thinking and communicating, so that they don't rely on verbal skills as much. You sound like you're highly verbal, but that's only one aspect of IQ. Y ou might want to read up on visual spatial thinkers so that you can understand him a little better.

Do your children's IQ's end up being more like an average (mean) of you and your spouse's, or is it more like....some kids get the higher IQ,

some get the average IQ? (It's hard to tell by looking at my parents and us, since both parents are high IQ).

Children tend to be within 10 IQ points of their parents.

If you're lucky, your children will have both their father's visual/spatial/math gifts and your family's verbal gifts.

Edited by RiverTam - 12/3/10 at 9:32am

[PreggieUBA2C]

Originally Posted by puddle 

Don't have time for a detailed response, but wanted to throw out a couple of things that jumped out at me from your post.

You didn't state your IQ, but I suspect that maybe you and your family of origin are all profoundly gifted.  There is a big difference between profoundly gifted and moderately gifted, so if that is the case, then I can understand how you could have a harder time relating to people with average IQs.  While I can have wonderful and intellectually stimulating conversations with people of average intelligence, I do feel a disconnect with people who are below average sometimes, so perhaps that is what you feel with people who are of average intelligence if you are PG. 

You mention several times that you have to "dumb yourself down" around other people outside of your family.  You are not comfortable being yourself around anyone outside of your own family.  If you stop attempting to dumb yourself down to fit in, then you have a better chance of finding people with whom you really will fit in.  It sounds like maybe you learned to do that as a survival technique when growing up, and maybe you should try unlearning it to see how it works out?

It sounds like the biggest issue is that you have a need in your life that is unfulfilled.  You need intellectually stimulating conversation, and you are hoping that eventually your children will fulfill that need.  They may, but not for awhile, and as others have said, there are no guarantees.  I think you should work on finding a way of meeting this need in your life because unless your own needs are met, it will be much more difficult for you to meet the needs of your children.  For myself, I have a wonderful group of friends that I primarily chat online, as well as a handful of local friends that I can see in person.

Sorry so choppy--on my way out the door.  Welcome!

Puddle, thank you posting with an assumption of the best of the OP. Regardless of whether or not one agrees with her, there is really no rational reason to respond to her with vitriol and feigned pity, veiled in aggressive rebukes, and it is really lovely that you didn't do that.

Bobcat, I do understand your concerns about your unknown future children, but I want to reiterate what pps wrote: when you birth your baby, your whole world will look different. If your baby ended up unable to speak at all, you would resent your family for not doing everything necessary to welcome her and include her in their real discussions and real life (of course it is unlikely that they wouldn't do so, given your description). Loving people will go to the proverbial ends of the earth to make the situation work. This is why we have sign language and myriad other non-typical (but truly awesome) ways to communicate with one another.

You seem like a genuine person to me from your post, so I highly doubt you would be heart-broken with NT children. They will be so important to you, that you will work the world around them if they can't work the world themselves.

Also, if you do spend some time at this forum, you will find that there are certain topics that evoke ire in disproportion to the intention of the person truly, sincerely seeking answers and experiences. Also, this forum goes through cycles it seems, and there are times when posting sensitive topics is best left until a later time. Posting really personal, difficult questions with myriad nuances and obvious need for a comprehensive discussion, rather than rash reactions, during typical higher-stress times for families, such as now, is likely to bring a mixed set of responses leaning generally in a not-so-friendly way.

It can be very difficult to express accurately what you have here, no matter how many caveats and how intricate your prefacing. I know what you are referring to, but I also think you can truly relax, unless you are expressing an underlying regret that you chose your partner, and that's okay too. If it's not truly working, then you have work to do to sort that out in whatever way is rationally best for you.

Both dp and I are PG, and our children are all immensely communicative from before birth even, but they all communicate differently. Our fourth child didn't speak until he was 18 months old, but he was absolutely understood, even by friends and strangers before that. He is so companionable, that it was unnoticeable that he wasn't speaking all that time. He turned three, three weeks ago, and yesterday, he picked up a book and said, "Do not engage this spider!!!" I replied, "No? Why not?" His response, "Because he's very dangerous and he could bite you and then you would be dead." My point is that you will already have learned how to communicate with each child long before s/he speaks, and there is no rush! And, children will live in their environment in the way that most benefits them. We like to talk here, too, and while ds4 took longer to join with spoken language, he certainly didn't lose time. But besides this, you will have so much to communicate already, that wordsmithing together would just be an incidental activity you do. My other children have all spoken understandable words beginning at two months old. It didn't make the difference though; they didn't have to speak in English because I already know what they need through far more intricate communication than language affords. Being properly attached and bonded with your babies will allow you to not only not notice if they are not wordsmiths, but if at some point you do notice that, it just won't matter.

I think if you are conscientious and self-aware, as you seem to be, you are not going to have trouble figuring this all out in real-time. Stop dumbing down socially, too. Doing so naturally prevents you from meeting people you would otherwise delight in befriending. And don't be frightened away from this forum either, but do make sure you have a very thick skin when asking for advice, and focus on the constructive parts: ignore the others because people come with all sorts of baggage. Most people do not have access to what you are describing in yourself, so they will find you and your admissions offensive. If that's not helpful to you, just ignore it, even if it hurts just a little at first. I have taken long breaks from this forum at various points, and between the end of August and January, it's not as open and friendly overall, as at other times, in my experience. That seems to be the same for the whole board with some exceptions.

Welcome. :)

ETA: I second Marimara's recommendation to look into MBTI.
 

Edited by PreggieUBA2C - 12/2/10 at 12:57pm

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C 

Puddle, thank you posting with an assumption of the best of the OP. Regardless of whether or not one agrees with her, there is really no rational reason to respond to her with vitriol and feigned pity, veiled in aggressive rebukes, and it is really lovely that you didn't do that.

Bobcat, 

Also, if you do spend some time at this forum, you will find that there are certain topics that evoke ire in disproportion to the intention of the person truly, sincerely seeking answers and experiences. Also, this forum goes through cycles it seems, and there are times when posting sensitive topics is best left until a later time. Posting really personal, difficult questions with myriad nuances and obvious need for a comprehensive discussion, rather than rash reactions, during typical higher-stress times for families, such as now, is likely to bring a mixed set of responses leaning generally in a not-so-friendly way.

I was not feigning pity in my comment that I felt for her husband. I sincerely feel sorry for someone who is with a partner who thinks he's stupid. That's exactly how her post came across. She and her family kindly put up with him. I would be devastated if I knew my husband and his family felt that way about me.

I also don't think it's fair to blame the posters for disliking what the OP said. I can admit that one of my greatest fears before my children were born was that one of them would not be above average in intellectual ability because I wasn't sure how I would handle that or alter my expectations for my children. It is something that concerned me in the way that I suppose other people worry about physical malformations. The problem that I have with the OP's world view, and the reason that I believe she should spend some serious time in thought is that she clearly believes her husband isn't her equal. That's not a good starting point for a marriage, but it certainly isn't a place from which one should want to raise children together. The second concern is that she expects her children to be her intellectual companions. As others have said, even if they're profoundly gifted, they're not going to have the depth of knowledge she has for many years, which could leave them feeling deficient because Mom is looking for some family-table conversation to fill her intellectual cup. 
 

I've never understood the dumbing myself down thing. I've opted not to have many friends rather than spend time being bored by people. I went to college at 12. No one wanted to be my friend. I was the freak. That was okay with me, but obviously the OP has social needs she hasn't be able to meet throughout her life. Hoping that her children will be able to meet them isn't a good solution. That's what I would say anytime of the year. 

[oaktreemama]

 

I have this mental image of me sitting at Thanksgiving dinner with my adult children, and it feeling how I feel when I don't have anyone near my intelligence in the room/group....that kind of isolated/bored feeling (not that that is bad; I adapt to it; but I just never thought I would have to around my own family). That is how I feel when I go to Thanksgiving at my husbands' family's. Whereas with my family, I'm always finally excited to connect on a deeper level and not have to dumb myself down.

People can be very smart but that doesn't make them fun or exciting to be around. People can be of average intelligence and be a blast to hang out with. You seem to be unaware of that. If I were you I think I would focus more on developing my own social skills rather than trying to "dumb" myself down. Enormous intelligence isn't a useful factor in starting a family if the corresponding emotional abilities are lacking.

Your feelings for your husband come across as cold and remote and that is not a place to start a family from. And as others have said more eloquently then I could-expecting your children to meet an unmet need of your own is a recipe for disaster. It is no different then the unfulfilled athlete expecting and driving his son to be a football star. Your children need to be who they are, not who you want them to be.