My Ped won't see my daughter now

[SaraCMommy]

We have hit the 6 month limit my DD Ped's office gave us. After days of research over several months and reading the package information on vaccinations that somehow never get to the parent, a letter which removed the legal gibberish of I am endangering my child and I know it form to give my doctor, and was really confident when I walked through the door.

The doctor and nurses are more skilled than trained special forces teams as they had me in this little box for over an hour. First it was I am endangering her health so I spouted off the risks. The countered it with how the benefit outweighed the risk and presented this book for me too look over on each vaccination. They must of left me alone for 15 to 20 minutes to sweat me out or something and with my DD getting fussy from being cooped up. The nurse enters and asks "which vaccinations are you getting today?" I said I don't want them. Then the doctor comes in again and presents me a alternative schedule from Dr Sears, and said well you have missed the 2nd month already so we will give her those with the 4 month. Kind of defeating the alternative schedule I thought. I told her I really don't want to give her any shots because of prior reaction in myself and family members and the history of Lupus and other auto immune diseases and I don't believe in harming my child with toxic substances or injecting her with animal cells. "What do you mean? and where do you get your information?" I said I read the papers that you should be giving parents from the manufacturer  instead of your own typed version. I also mentioned Catholic paper where specific vaccines should not be used because of the use of fetus or fetus origin. Another doctor came in and told me he is Catholic and to use religion as an excuse not to be vaccinated is "hooey" I was then informed they would no longer see my child because of their practice. Now with two doctors in the room and nurses I felt compelled to give her something. So I agreed to the alternative schedule and choose the rotavirus and HIB as the least dangerous given the papers they had given me and I regret the decision to this day. For 3 weeks she had a low grade fever and would not sleep very well which they claimed was sleep regression. I found out later that HIB is suspected with Type 1 diabetes in children. They also refused to accept my form which they said they could not take. I tried to cross out the accusatory statements and the nurse took it from me and said I could not alter this form. I did it anyways when they walked out of the room with my folder to give to the front desk.

She is now 6 months and I know if I go they will be just as forceful and then tell me she can't come there anymore. We are Tricare Prime but the hospital on post has no openings and I have yet to find a no-vax friendly doctor off post. I have been ridiculed by another military mom for endangering her child and that people like me should live on an isolated island.

Sorry for this book, but what do I do with the doctor and these mothers? HELP

[RomanGoddess]

Is there any reason that your baby needs to see a doctor?  Is it just for baby well-checks?

[Marnica]

Im so sorry you were bullied into doing something you are not comfortable with. There is no worse feeling. Personally i would run away from this practice as fast and far as I could. You cannot have a trusting, respectful relationship with these people who have basically belittled your personal reasons for not wanting to vaccinate. I hear that other options are not readily avaliable, but WBV are simply designed around vaccinations. There is no reason a healthy baby needs to go to a doctor. I would keep trying to find another doctor, evenually you will. You may need to travel a bit, but it would be well worth the inconvenience. Have you considered going to a ND?

[ammiga]

We stopped doing well baby visits. There really was no point. I had my kids checked for hip problems early on (I'm sure this was done at the 2 and 4 month appts for your child), and that was all they needed. We deal with sniffles, coughs, and fevers at home with healthy diets, sleep, and breastfeeding. If your kids need a doctor for something, try a family practitioner.

[mattemma04]

Keep looking for a doctor.I have an 8 and 11yo and our doctor NEVER made me feel like a fool for not giving vaccines.Yearly he would forget until he checked the file,but never once made me feel bad or asked if I changed my mind.

I would recommend you request a copy of the medical files and move on.No doctor will care for your child if there is a vaccine related complication.More than likely they will deny vaccines are the cause and insist you continue.Only vaccinate when and how you want too.

[LisaSedai]

That is a HORRIBLE practice. A patient should never be bullied and intimidated into getting medical treatment. I would never go back there.I hope you can find another doctor- have you tried any family practice Drs?  I don't discuss my child's vax status in real life. I don't want to get into the drama. You'll never convince a vaxing parent that they are potentially harming their child. They believe what the CDC, the drug companies and the doctors are telling them.

[bookwormommy]

  That sounds awful. 

Ditto with  previous poster on trying a family doctor or an ND, if you need to have one.  Try your tribal area to see if anyone near you knows of someone good. 

My DD didn't see a doctor (after her newborn exam) until she was 3 1/2.  Since we weren't vaccinating, and she was clearly healthy and thriving, I didn't see a need to take her. 

[goinggreengirl]

I am so sorry! How awful. If it's just for WBV- you really don't need to go. My son is 8 months and he's only been to two appointments- the first one to establish him as a patient and the second as a follow up after an ER visit. Thankfully, the office just asks about vaccinations each time and don't say anything else when I say we aren't doing any.

If she needs to see a doctor- look for a family practice doctor. I've heard they are better about no vaxing. Good luck. I hope your daughter feels better soon too.

[nia82]

That is horrible! We found a family practioner who couldn't care less whether we do shots, some or all, he thinks it's up to the parents who obviously did their research. That being said, they will fire you. Don't go back in there as they will bully you, that is unnecessary. Call them, tell them you don't want any vaccines and if they won't see your daughter then, that you need a written letter for Tricare. Tricare has to find you a doctor that will see you. Don't focus on peds, look for FPs (family practioners). If nobody in town wants to take you, they have to see you on base. You can PM me if you want to for more help and support mama... I have had several Tricare fights and won!

[caned & able]

I would report this practice, minus the vaccines, to their professional licensing/overseer board for harassment.  That is uncalled for.  It may be SOP for parents like you.

Find a family practitioner or an alternative health practitioner of some kind who is willing to be your go-to doctor. 

Editted to ask if you paid for that poor treatment?

Edited by caned & able - 12/2/10 at 3:36pm

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by nia82 

Don't go back in there as they will bully you, that is unnecessary. Call them, tell them you don't want any vaccines and if they won't see your daughter then, that you need a written letter for Tricare. Tricare has to find you a doctor that will see you. Don't focus on peds, look for FPs (family practioners). If nobody in town wants to take you, they have to see you on base. You can PM me if you want to for more help and support mama... I have had several Tricare fights and won!

Also, remember that it is ok to just get up and walk out! "My baby is here for a physical exam, we will not be vaccinating. If you will not conduct the exam I am leaving and will notify Tricare that you refused to perform services and attempted to coerce me into allowing treatment I had already refused."

[AprilM]

Reading your post made me very angry. We went through something similar here, only we didn't get bullied to give the vaxes, the ped's office sent us a letter of dismissal after I refused to sign the bad mommy form...you know the one that states you are knowingly harming your child if you don't give the recommended vaxes. I think I signed it once, before I realized that it was incriminating me and it could come back to bite me in the #$%.  They wouldn't let us alter the form either.....BUT did you know that on the AAP website, you can find that very same form, and if you read the attachment, it states CLEARLY that you CAN alter the form depending on the needs of your patient. (directing toward the physician)

The pediatric vaccine schedule is what is "hooey"! I don't know how some pediatricians sleep at night injecting these innocent tiny little babies and kids with viruses, bacteria, animal kidneys, human fetuses, thimerisol, aluminum, formeldehyde, antibiotics, etc. It's truly criminal. And I haven't a clue how people (doctors, parents, policy makers, the CDC, the FDA) can't see the correlation between the increasing autoimmune epidemic (autism, lupus, diabetes, allergies, leukemia, cancer, ect) we are seeing in children (and adults alike) and the aggressive childhood immunization schedule and yearly flu shot.

And to the mom who called you irresponsible for endangering the life of her child, I say....if you believe so much in your vaccinations, then that statement doesn't even make sense! How can your child contract a disease if he/she has been vaccinated against it? And if you don't believe that the vaccine has protected your child, then why would you allow your poor baby to be injected with disease and toxins? And if she just doesn't know any better and is just following the recommendation of her doctors, then I say 'shame on her' for not doing her homework and for endangering the life of her child! Sorry, but parents who claim that parents who don't vaccinate their kids are irresponsible are one of my biggest pet peaves because in fact, it is the other way around.

I agree with the poster who said you just can't convince a parent who has been allowing their child to receive vaccines that vaccines cause harm. They don't want to listen, because if they embrace the fact that vaccines not only do not work like they are thought to, but in many cases cause brain damage and chronic disease, then they have to embrace the fact that they have allowed their child's immune systems to be assaulted. I do not openly talk about my son's vax status either, unless it is a situation where someone wants to know what I have discovered in my 3 years of vaccine research. (which so far no one with a child has even bothered to ask me) Funny though, friends and family who don't have any children ask me about it.

The cold hard truth is vaccines have NOT been proven safe or effective. We are taught that "vaccine preventable" diseases were eradicated through mass vaccination, but if you look at the available statistics (provided by the government no less), you get a very different picture. In fact, in many cases, like with the polio and smallpox vaccines, there was a steady decline of the disease BEFORE the vaccine was introduced, and sharp increases of the diseases following mass vaccination, meaning the vaccines were actually CAUSING the disease they were designed to prevent. And it doesn't stop with those 2 vaccines. For example, lots of parents report a regression in their child's development following the MMR shot with an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis shortly to follow. Anyone find it ironic that autism looks almost identical to subacute sclerosing panencephalitis?

Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a rare chronic, progressive encephalitis that affects primarily children and young adults, caused by a persistent infection of immune resistant measles virus (which can be a result of a mutation of the virus itself). (encephalitis is swelling of the brain)

Symptoms of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis include but are not limited to, abnormal behavior, irritability, intellectual deterioration, memory loss, involuntary movement, and seizures (in the form of myoclonic spasms) resulting in the person experiencing further mental deterioration, inability to walk, speech impairment with poor comprehension, difficulty swallowing (dysphagia) and in some cases blindness.

Just an interesting observation. The measles vaccine is a live virus, and it has been shown to live long term in the tissue of it's host.

The same observation can be found in the case of the flu shot/flu mist. Anyone ever come down with 'flu like symptoms' after a flu shot?

My husband got a tetanus shot years ago and was in bed for a week afterward esperiencing flu like symptoms and muscle spasms. (symptoms of tetanus) .....and with tetanus, how can they say the vaccine gives you immunity when having the actual disease doesn't give you immunity?

Ok, I digress.....sorry this is so long, this topic just infuriates me, and I want to know why doctors don't know the extent of which vaccines can harm. I say RUN don't walk as far as possible from this ped's office, find a family doctor (preferably an osteopath, as they work with whole body healing) and even more preferably a naturopathic doctor if you can afford it. I also recommend monthly chiropractic adjustments to keep your immune system functioning optimally, and keep reading the MDC forums.

Good luck to you! Be strong and remember, you are your child's rock. If you can get past the ridicule of others and the condescending tone of misinformed doctors, you can rise above the contraversy and be confident in the health care decisions you make for you and your family.

 

[dakotablue]

I didn't take DS to the ped from 2 months until 12 months. We switched to a FP, NP. much better though he wants us to do DTaP, which we are not, but I did look at it again because I trust him. I did do two shots, and I called and had them write his reaction on his chart. There is no reason that a reasonable Doc wouldn't take family history into account when thinking of delaying or not doing shots...Outside of the intimidation which...yeah The pushing aside of documented reasons to not vax due to danger that is actually recognized by most docs is annoying.

I'd try to find someone new...

[Otto]

Originally Posted by AprilM 

.....and with tetanus, how can they say the vaccine gives you immunity when having the actual disease doesn't give you immunity?

A logical consequence of this argument is that TiG doesn't work, either.

[SaraCMommy]

I called a few places all said they enforce CDC recommended schedule so I finally went to the Tricare office and told them I need a doctor on post. The lady inquired why and I told them the ped and I did not see eye to eye on vaccination schedule. She looked at me confused and I reiterated, I don't want vaccinations on his schedule so my DD can see him after 6 months. She told me that she would be in the system tomorrow and I informed her I was just diagnosed with a pretty vicious upper respiratory infection and she is showing symptoms and my on post doc said if she does to bring her to a doctor asap. So they gave me some urgent care places but when I called my husband he told me to walk the 100 yards to the emergency room and I was sick and she was sick and it was 30 degrees outside.

ER doctor was fantastic, asked me if she was up to date on her shots and I said no. She inquired and said it was not up to her to tell me if I should, when I should or why I should get vaccinations. She did inform me if we were to pcs overseas she would be required to get some vaccinations but that doesn apply to us right now. They perscribed her antibiotics and cough suppressant and then sent us on our merry way.

I did post a basic hey my kid is not being immunized so let me know if you dont want her around yours and ps dont flame me. So far I only had to delete the topic once and stress the no drama. Another homeschool mother is also not vax her child, and a mother asked me why I wasn't and ended up feeling guilty that she didn't reserch vaccinations before letting her doctors give her daughter hers. I told her that the decision is hers and her husbands alone and be ready from attacks on all sides. I also told her she needs to do her own research so she can be informed not told, as it has taken me many months 6+ to come to my decision.

Flu mist should not be used with asthmatics!! My DH was violently ill within 10 hours of his and they later told him he shouldn't of gotten it.

As for peoples opinions, one lady agreed she knew that immunizations might not fully protect a child. If that is the case and you don't know your child is protected from being a say measles carrier and you take your child who caught the virus to day care are you not just as a "bad parent" as the non-vax kid. Well no I took steps to immunize my child, but how do you know your protected, oh thats right you blindly trust the pharmacutical industry and the doctors they bribe tell you that your child is, even with you still knowing just because they were given a shot doesn't mean they were immunized.

It is nice to mee you here, I feel I have been free to speak my mind without being told I am a bad parent or endangering my childs life.

[AprilM]

A logical consequence of this argument is that TiG doesn't work, either.

Right.

Antibodies alone do not necessarily mean immunity. TiG, for those of you who don't already know is tetanus immune globulin, which is a concentrate of antibodies produced against tetanus toxin by immunized people. From what I understand, if you suspect tetanus, you can have the antibodies injected into the local area where the wound is.

Like the theory of vaccination induced immunity, TiG works off the theory that if you harbor enough antibody against a specific pathogen, you have acquired immunity. However, this theory is flawed in that it does not consider how our bodies are designed to fight off viruses and bacteria. Our body's first lines of defense are the mucous membranes and saliva in our nose and mouth. These areas of our body contain secretory IgA (Immunoglobulin A), which is an antibody that plays a critical role in immunity, and is our body's natural line of defense. IgA helps protect against viral infection, agglutinate (to clump) bacteria, neutralize microbial (bacteria capable of producing disease) toxins, and decrease attachment of pathogens to mucosal (mucous membrane) surfaces.

It can be found in our mucous secretions, saliva, tears, colostrum, urinary tract, gastrointestinal tract, prostate, and in the respiratory tract. Under normal circumstances, a virus or bacteria would encounter this secretory IgA BEFORE entering into the bloodstream, whereas in the case of vaccination, the virus/bacteria is injected directly into the bloodstream, bypassing the important primary line of defense, possibly making it difficult for our bodies to expell the virus or bacteria, thus harboring the toxins within our cells creating chronic sickness and disease.

Another important factor to consider when injecting viruses directly into the bloodstream is the harmful effect that high levels of blood serum antibodies can cause. When there are too many antibodies in our bloodstream, and they have nothing real to attack (as natural exposure would give them), they look for molecules with amino acid sequences that most closely represent the virus they were designed to attack. When they find similar molecules, they start attacking. (This is how vaccines induce autoimmune disorders) Your body starts attacking itself. This is called Molecular Mimicry. (Your molecules MIMIC those of a virus, so depending on which molecules the antibodies attack determines which autoimmune disorder you will develop)

And with the use of adjuvents in the vaccines (substances that are used to rev up antibody production....such as aluminum and thimerisol), your body is producing way more antibodies than it ever would under normal circumstances, often causing deadly amounts of self attacking antibodies.

[pregnant@40]

Ok, personally I am on the pro-vaccine side of the argument, but I think the way these practitioners treated you was horrible. They absolutely cannot bully you into their services, that's very disgraceful. I don't know where you live, but have you considered a naturopathic physician? There are practitioners who would support your position & respect your autonomy.

[Ellien C]

What pregnant@40 said. It's disgraceful the way they treated you. Left you in a room to "sweat it out?" Get up and walk OUT! Is there any reason you are telling ppl your child is not vaccinated? I don't think anyone needs to know that.

(and I was also pregnant at 40!)

[elus0814]

We're military as well, my husband is an officer and we don't vax. I have a couple questions for you that may help, can you pm me if you'd like discuss further?

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by AprilM 

And to the mom who called you irresponsible for endangering the life of her child, I say....if you believe so much in your vaccinations, then that statement doesn't even make sense! 

Read up on how viruses mutate. This argument actually *does* make sense from a biological perspective. We are delayed vax, and I don't have a problem with my kids being around others who aren't vaxed. Still there are risks because of mutations, and if everyone either were or weren't vaccinated it would be easier.