Getting a 3 1/2 year old to go to bed

[lillymonster]

I don't know if this goes into Nighttime Parenting or here, my child has no issue once she is asleep (although she started sleeping through the night at age 3) I just can't get her to sleep. Normally I am a person who thinks kids will sleep when they are tired, my child is clearly tired, yet she won't go to bed, well now, until after 11:30 at night. Then she will sometimes wake up at 8, sometimes 11:30. She stopped napping when she was 2, and my attempts at getting her to nap when she sleeps only 8 hours at night have failed.

I have tried routines, books, tv, calming games, getting her ready for bed earlier. She will put on pajamas at 8, heck it's 5, and she asked for pajamas on already! but getting her to fall asleep, I can't figure out.

I am not concerned about me needing the sleep, I have insomnia anyway : )  but for her, today at 1:30 she did nothing but cry and whine for 2 hours. She is tired.

I was thinking of trying melatonin, but I am worried that will set her up for getting used to it? Is there anything else I can try.  She has never been sick and I have never given her drugs or supplements (aside from iron and vit D) and she is 3 1/2, so I am not taking this lightly, but I can't figure out how to get her on a schedule. Something is clearly off with her.

FWIW, she had bad reflux and intolerances as a baby and never slept well until actually she weaned when I got pregnant, she had turned 3), and I don't know if that just got her used to sleeping weirdly or what.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Wittyone]

Around that age my son started falling asleep to reading books with my husband (he would only nurse to sleep with me!).  Something about lying still in a calm, dim room and getting into the stories helped him transition to sleep.  I think they would read several books.  He finally weaned a little after he turned 4 and now we can read a book and he'll roll over and go to sleep - I thought I would never see the day that happened!  When he was younger and really wound up I'd give him some Rescue Remedy or Calms Forte, sometimes it would help him unwind.  I also try to be consistent with bedtime timing when I am home, but I know my husband is more lax on timing so I can't say that's been particularly key for us.  Good luck, I know how frustrating it is when you just want them to GO TO SLEEP ALREADY...and they just won't!

[mamadelbosque]

Around 2 yrs we realized that DS1 could and would fall asleep perfectly fine by himself. But me, or DH, or whoever being in there was a distraction that kept him awake. We learned to read a couple stories then give hugs and kisses goodnight and then leave the room. He'd whine for a minute or three, then roll over and go to sleep. But if we stayed in there untill he was asleep it could take *HOURS* - he would clearly be tired, but would just keep moving to keep himself awake to talk to us, or hear more stories, or whatever. 

[cappuccinosmom]

My 3.5 yo has the benefit of two older brothers who are already used to going to bed.  They share a room and he just goes along with them.

What has worked for us is that we have a set-in-stone time to start getting ready for bed.  And then it's jammies, tooth brushing, and their beloved grandpa reading to them. He reads great books to them, and they really look forward to that time of day.  After he's done reading, I tuck them in, say goodnight, and put on a story on CD.  They also have either a lava lamp or Christmas lights on.  I have no idea when they actually fall asleep, but if I check on them around 9, they're almost always out.  I keep a baby monitor on to make sure they're not actually having parties up there, but it's never been a problem.

[lillymonster]

Thanks everyone, but I have tried all this. This is the only kid I know that books hyper her up...she loves to read so much that I could spend days and days reading to her and she wouldn't stop, so books are bad right before bed. I honestly think there is something wrong, since she does have SPD and a lot of anxiety for an almost 4 year old, on top of food allergies and such, I just wonder if there is something else going on. The only way I got her to sleep last night is that ALL the lights had to be on in the room and the fan and after being rocked very fast by her daddy, and then she closed her eyes and feel asleep. Weird. It hit me last night that there has to be something more going on. I think she needs some kind of movement before bed.

[jecombs]

 Is your DD my DD's twin?  Because they sound exactly alike. 

My DD never slept well as an infant.  It wasn't allergies that kept her up, though, it was ear infections.  She also has some anxiety issues.  She has always had a very hard time falling asleep and the more tired she is, the more hyper she becomes.  It got to the point where she wasn't falling asleep until 11 PM and then she would be awake by 6 or 6:30 AM and not take a nap.  Her behavior was horrible because she was so sleep-deprived.  Her "sleep self-esteem" was in the toilet.  She was convinced that she could not fall asleep and she would cry and cry about it every night.

The only thing that has helped us is liquid Melatonin.  DD gets .5 ml per night, which is a very small dose.  It helps her relax enough to fall asleep.  Now she is feeling more confident about her ability to fall asleep and has started taking naps again!  She is also a lot easier to handle and get along with because she is well-rested.

I have also had her evaluated by and Occupational Therapist for sensory issues.  So far we have discovered that DD's system needs a lot of sensory input to maintain it's equilibrium.  Now we are starting to figure out how to give her what she needs to function optimally.  My hope is that we will be able to discontinue the Melatonin in a couple of months, after things have evened-out with the sensory stuff.

[lillymonster]

Originally Posted by jecombs 

 Is your DD my DD's twin?  Because they sound exactly alike. 

My DD never slept well as an infant.  It wasn't allergies that kept her up, though, it was ear infections.  She also has some anxiety issues.  She has always had a very hard time falling asleep and the more tired she is, the more hyper she becomes.  It got to the point where she wasn't falling asleep until 11 PM and then she would be awake by 6 or 6:30 AM and not take a nap.  Her behavior was horrible because she was so sleep-deprived.  Her "sleep self-esteem" was in the toilet.  She was convinced that she could not fall asleep and she would cry and cry about it every night.

That is exactly what DD does! I'll ask her to lay down and "talk" and she will start to cry - "I can't fall asleep, I don't know how" then she will cry so hard she starts to cough, then she freaks out she is coughing and "can't stop", so I started trying to get her to breath to calm down by blowing on a piece of paper, but now that is the ONLY way I can get her to calm down. So if I have no paper handy, then she freaks out even more. Last night I gave her water to get her to stop coughing and she spilled a drop on her hand, and then started crying she couldn't get it off and she still felt it.

Thanks, I try the melatonin. I know we need to deal with the sensory issues, but I haven't had a lot of luck with OT, so I need to do the hunt again. I just want to regulate her, once I think I get her in a cycle, then I can wean her off. As it is, she has no natural rhythm for bedtime or wake up, it's all over the place.

[kcparker]

Oh, we use finger "candles" to blow on when DS1 is upset. I hold up my fingers, and they flicker and go out, but then if he still needs to breathe more, they pop back up again. We also talk a lot about breathing out our extra energy, or breathing in calm, whether or not it's sleeping time. You could also try some guided relaxation exercises, either progressive body relaxation or just telling her to shut her eyes and you will guide her through a visualization of _____ (warm, soft light flowing over her body, a flower that changes colors, going for a unicorn ride, whatever will make her feel calm and safe). Have you thought about something wacky like having her sleep in a hammock, something that is more coccoon-like and also gives her gentle motion? My younger son likes to fall asleep being held in-arms and bounced on a yoga ball. Maybe if she does need the motion, this would be a good option, though I am sure she weighs a good bit more than he does.

[lillymonster]

Originally Posted by kcparker 

Oh, we use finger "candles" to blow on when DS1 is upset. I hold up my fingers, and they flicker and go out, but then if he still needs to breathe more, they pop back up again. We also talk a lot about breathing out our extra energy, or breathing in calm, whether or not it's sleeping time. You could also try some guided relaxation exercises, either progressive body relaxation or just telling her to shut her eyes and you will guide her through a visualization of _____ (warm, soft light flowing over her body, a flower that changes colors, going for a unicorn ride, whatever will make her feel calm and safe). Have you thought about something wacky like having her sleep in a hammock, something that is more coccoon-like and also gives her gentle motion? My younger son likes to fall asleep being held in-arms and bounced on a yoga ball. Maybe if she does need the motion, this would be a good option, though I am sure she weighs a good bit more than he does.

I have tried doing as much as I can with movement, but now I am 8 months pregnant and she is 33 pounds, so I can't lift her. But I'll look into the hammock idea, that may be helpful.

[lookatreestar]

the hammock idea sounds cool and kinda out of the box. i don't know if it is safe for kiddos but my mom takes tryptophan to help her sleep.

my dd is close in age to yours (she is april 7th) but she still nurses to sleep 90% of the time so that's all i got 

[AGF]

1) one of those clip fans on the bed (even during the winter) the air flow on her face and the sound helped a friends kid to "turn off" her thoughts to help her sleep

and 2) A white noise machine?

The hammock sounds good to me too!