Ds' kindy teacher "slandered" him in front of an audience of 60.

[darien]

Ok, so it's not actually that bad, but I'm still angry.

I teach at my ds' school.  This week, we went on a field trip to see a children's adaptation of "The Nutcracker."  My class and I were seated a few rows behind ds' kindergarten class.  About halfway through the 45 minute show, he started wiggling around in his chair and singing to himself.  Not good behavior, but he wasn't exactly running screaming through the aisles!  He was definitely not the only kid making noise or not sitting still, either. 

His teacher got up and made him move.  She took him to an empty section a few rows behind us, and sat there with him.  As far as I know, he behaved for the rest of the show.

After we all loaded back onto the bus, before we got on the road, ds' teacher stood up, and from 5 rows ahead called back to me.  She said that she had talked to ds about being respectful during the show and not ruining other people's enjoyment.  But, he "just didn't care at all;" he only "cared about his own wants."  She chuckled and shook her head, like she was sharing any old anecdote with a colleague instead of embarassing me and my kid in front of 60 people I have to see every day.

Why on earth would she think I needed or wanted to hear that, let alone the dozens of students, teachers, and parents on the bus?  Realistically, given the noise level on the bus, not that many people heard what she said, BUT STILL!

I would talk to her about it if I thought it would make a difference, but it won't.  She's a good person and teacher, and I like her, actually.  But, she seriously has NO ability to see others' points of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong.  The best I could expect is one of those "apologies" that sounds like "I'm sorry you were offended by that perfectly reasonable thing I did, Oversensitive Mom of a Problem Child."

The truth is, my ds is a thorn in her side.  I don't deny it.  But I don't think a teacher should air any kid's failings like that!  It's unprofessional, and unkind.

Thanks for listening to my vent.

[Niamh]

She shouldn't have called to you from five seats away. That was really unprofessional. You like her, and you've said that your child can be a thorn in her side, so I'd approach her about it as a friend. Something along the lines of "I really didn't appreciate it when you called out my son's behavior in front of everybody. It was embarrassing." Obviously rephrase it for you ;) but something friendly but letting her know as you would a friend that you didn't appreciate it. That wasn't cool.

[Smithie]

Totally unprofessional and unkind on the teacher's part.

But if you are aware that your DS is a constant problem for her, then your focus needs to be on your disappointment with him and the embarrassment that HE caused you by misbehaving during the performance. Don't deflect your frustration. He did wrong and you saw him do wrong, and it does him no favors to get a pass on that because his teacher is a tactless wonder. It's not your job to form HER character.

[Needle in the Hay]

It's also possible he wasn't really doing anything worse than some of the other kids (do people seriously think that a 5 year-old wiggling in his seat and softly singing during a children's Nutcracker performance is misbehavior that warrants disappointment with him??) but he is the troublemaker in her eyes so it's his behavior that always gets called out. It would concern me greatly that he is considered a thorn in her side.

ETA: her comment on the bus is a problem too of course. It was ridiculous and she doesn't sound like a very reasonable person if you don't think she'd get why that wasn't a good thing to do. It's just that I would be a little worried about what she's saying to him on a daily basis.

[mattemma04]

Originally Posted by darien 

The truth is, my ds is a thorn in her side.  I don't deny it.  But I don't think a teacher should air any kid's failings like that!  It's unprofessional, and unkind.

Thanks for listening to my vent.

Your are right that it won't change her ways,but it will make YOU feel better to stand up for your child and say something to the teacher.Being a PITA does not give the teacher the right to do that to your child.She is setting the tone for how others will view your child,because  I bet she talks about him to other teachers. It was inappropriate on her part and I would tell her.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay 

It's also possible he wasn't really doing anything worse than some of the other kids (do people seriously think that a 5 year-old wiggling in his seat and softly singing during a children's Nutcracker performance is misbehavior that warrants disappointment with him??) but he is the troublemaker in her eyes so it's his behavior that always gets called out. It would concern me greatly that he is considered a thorn in her side.

ETA: her comment on the bus is a problem too of course. It was ridiculous and she doesn't sound like a very reasonable person if you don't think she'd get why that wasn't a good thing to do. It's just that I would be a little worried about what she's saying to him on a daily basis.

I agree. The Nutcracker can be difficult for any young child to sit through, even if they are interested; this year I'm leaving ds home and just taking dd.

Last year my ds was the "trouble maker." Though his behavior was frequently worse than wiggling, my dh sat in on a couple of classes and noticed that ds was always the first one called out even though there were other children exhibiting the same behavior.

[sapphire_chan]

If you don't think she responded appropriately to being called out for unprofessional behavior, then you need to report both instances of unprofessional behavior (the first act, and failure to respond to your concerns about the first act) to her supervisor(s).

(And, as a kid I could tell that some kids got called out sooner than others.)

[HipGal]

I would be upset, too. I don't know how someone can teach Kindergarten and not understand what is perfectly normal behavior for a Kindergartener! It isn't like he was hurting anyone or yelling out "This is so boring!" or jumping up on stage. ;)  Also, she should know that Kindergarteners all "care about their own wants".

I would let her know that you felt it was inappropriate and if she wants to talk to you about your child, she should request a conference with you and speak about it in private. I totally know a few people like that (who would never admit she did something wrong and can not see other's point of view). You are going to have to be pretty direct, or she isn't going to "get it". But you can also say some positive things about her/her teaching to keep the mood more positive.

It is possible that she was embarrassed when it happened and wanted to show that it wasn't her fault by "explaining" it to you.

Personally I think it is a lot to ask a Kindergartener to sit through the Nutcracker, unless he/she is really into dance. We have had field trips to plays, but they are plays where the actors are *really* over the top and funny and keep the kids' attention.

[melissa17s]

I would agree with others that this teacher was unprofessional.  I would certainly tell her not to address problems with your child while you are working or in group settings.  Make clear that you would like to know what is happening, but not in a way that humiliates your child and under minds your authority infront of students.  To me, it is like she has a similar problem to your ds, she can not sit still and wait for appropriate moment to share information with her peers.  If she does not understand, I would talk to administration.  

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

If you don't think she responded appropriately to being called out for unprofessional behavior, then you need to report both instances of unprofessional behavior (the first act, and failure to respond to your concerns about the first act) to her supervisor(s).

(And, as a kid I could tell that some kids got called out sooner than others.)

I think this could be a good idea if you don't think that it is going to make the working conditions to tense.  I worked at my dd's daycare for almost a year and it was awful because there was a very bad assistant teacher and the supervisor would not take my concerns seriously once I started working there.  Towards the end of my time there my dd told me one of her teachers had hit her and when I asked her where she pointed to her back, just above her butt.  When I called to ask them to look into it my supervisor threatened my job.  He didn't even look into the incident but the teacher quit and went full time at her other job the next day.  After that I got a new job and brought my complaints to his supervisor.  I think that standing up for our kids is important, but if you aren't in a position where you can leave or where you think you will be taken seriously you may want to avoid going to your supervisor even though she did do something really inappropriate.

[Lisa1970]

For a long time, I have been upset with the teachers and such for all the issues with my son. Afterall, it is way easier to find reasons to be upset with them instead of him. Fact is, my son has problems. I love him and I can love him all I want, but his behavior is not going to change at all while I sit back and find reasons to be upset with the teacher instead. See what I am saying?

I even find relatives doing this. Once I got on the ball and started having consequences for my son more, then relatives would complain that my poor innocent son does not deserve ..whatever it was, time out, loss of priveledge, extra chores, etc.....it was just me. Either I failed in some way, or the teacher did, or whatever. I realize how this has caused all the more troubles in my son's life. 

I am under the impression from what you have said is that the teacher did not say anything that others could not clearly see with their own eyes. Maybe it could have been handled better by talking to you about it later, but I am not so sure, from the way you said it (maybe I am just not getting it) that she was really slandering him (especially since the definition of slander includes it being untrue) but rather just explaining away what had happened. Maybe the teacher does not feel supported by you in the home? I mean, how did you react to what happened after the show? Did you go home and talk about that bad teacher? Or did you remove a priviledge from your son and talk to him about his behavior should be better and he needs to do what the teacher says? Also, I will role play what we should do when it seems appropriate. 

Good luck! Hope things go better.

[sapphire_chan]

If the OP's judgment was that her son behaved no differently than the other students in his class, then I hope to goodness she didn't punish him.

If the teacher only as a problem with one kid doing a behavior, then the behavior is not actually a problem.

And, regardless, it was wildly inappropriate to discuss discipline issues in a public forum.

[Smithie]

"For a long time, I have been upset with the teachers and such for all the issues with my son. Afterall, it is way easier to find reasons to be upset with them instead of him. Fact is, my son has problems. I love him and I can love him all I want, but his behavior is not going to change at all while I sit back and find reasons to be upset with the teacher instead. See what I am saying?"



My son knows that I love him. He also knows that if he disobeys a teach/coach/adult and I hear about it or witness it, the focus of the discussion at home will be on HIS bad judgement, not on whether the authority figure in question is a perfect human being whose instructions are always absolutely fair.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Smithie 

"For a long time, I have been upset with the teachers and such for all the issues with my son. Afterall, it is way easier to find reasons to be upset with them instead of him. Fact is, my son has problems. I love him and I can love him all I want, but his behavior is not going to change at all while I sit back and find reasons to be upset with the teacher instead. See what I am saying?"


My son knows that I love him. He also knows that if he disobeys a teach/coach/adult and I hear about it or witness it, the focus of the discussion at home will be on HIS bad judgement, not on whether the authority figure in question is a perfect human being whose instructions are always absolutely fair.

Her son's bad judgment? The teacher:

• took a class of 5yo's to a place where they were expected to be perfectly still and quiet for 45min
• singled out the OP's son, out of all the bored and wiggly 5yo's, for being a normal bored and wiggly 5yo
• then talked about him negatively to his mother in front of a bus full of his classmates and her colleagues

Yes, the OP's son wasn't observing theater etiquette, but he's 5. Why should the OP remove a privilege because the teacher's expectations were not age appropriate? My son behaved similarly when I took him to the NC; I "talked to ds about being respectful during the show and not ruining other people's enjoyment," then let matter drop, and will not be taking him (or dh who was just as bored but quiet and less wiggly) this year.

My son had significant behavioral issues in K, and 99% of the time we backed up the teacher/school, but there was one time where we felt they behaved inappropriately and had to tell ds that he had done the right thing and that we would back him up. We don't have the expectation that teachers are always perfect or fair, but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes and when they do we should ignore them.

I don't necessarily think the teacher did anything wrong in having the Op's sit with her even if he wasn't the only wiggly one, but it is not appropriate to "discuss" by shouting about a child's behavior in public even if everyone is aware of what happened. Also, the teacher didn't just say that he was wiggly, she essentially broadcast her opinion that he was a selfish child who doesn't care about others.

Edited by Emmeline II - 12/7/10 at 7:28am

[sapphire_chan]

Also, where on earth did the OP's ds disobey the teacher????

(Setting aside for the moment the evils of insisting on blind obedience to authority without regard for judgment or sense.)

[Ellie'sMom]

OP, I wonder how much of her reaction was dictated by his being the son of a colleague? Could she feel self-conscious about not preventing his behavior? Her response to you on the bus sounds a little defensive to me, like "I did all I could, but... "  

You said that you all are friends, and also that he is a thorn in her side. It seems to me that could set up an odd dynamic.

[FedUpMom]

From the OP:

***

She's a good person and teacher, and I like her, actually.  But, she seriously has NO ability to see others' points of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong.

***

How can she be a good teacher if she can't see another point of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong?  That's not my idea of a good teacher.

[ecoteat]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom 

From the OP:

***

She's a good person and teacher, and I like her, actually.  But, she seriously has NO ability to see others' points of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong.

***

How can she be a good teacher if she can't see another point of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong?  That's not my idea of a good teacher.

You have no idea what this teacher is like day to day. She may have been off base during this field trip, but no one could possibly make a judgement call about her effectiveness as a teacher based on this discussion.

OP, my dd will (probably) be in K at the school I teach at next year, and your story is what I worry most about--that her teachers won't be able to distinguish between my parent-of-a-student hat and my teacher hat. The biggest problem I see from your post is that the K teacher talked to you about your kid while you had your teacher hat on. That is not cool. In my school we have 5 teachers with their kids in the building and we all work very hard to keep the parent role separate from the teacher role. We tell their kids (especially the middle schoolers) that the other kids don't have the luxury of having their mom down the hall all day to cover their butts when they need it! If you do say anything to her about it, I think the point should be that you are not available to discuss your child, even in casual conversation in passing, while you are responsible for your own students. She can schedule a meeting or make a phone call like she would with any other parent.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by ecoteat 

Originally Posted by FedUpMom 

From the OP:

***

She's a good person and teacher, and I like her, actually.  But, she seriously has NO ability to see others' points of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong.

***

How can she be a good teacher if she can't see another point of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong?  That's not my idea of a good teacher.

You have no idea what this teacher is like day to day. She may have been off base during this field trip, but no one could possibly make a judgement call about her effectiveness as a teacher based on this discussion.

But she wasn't evaluating the teacher's effectiveness based on the discussion about the field trip, she based that opinion on the OP's assertion about the teacher's overall personality:

"she seriously has NO ability to see others' points of view, or contemplate that she might have been wrong." 
 

[darien]

OP again (finally). 

I got up the courage to tell ds' teacher that I was upset about the incident.  She actually was embarassed, and apologized.  She said that she has impulse contol issues, and that her mouth got ahead of her brain.

I understand that, and I accepted her apology.  That doesn't change my concern that she has a low opinion of ds, though.  I'm certainly keeping an eye on that.