Discolored teeth

[TonyaW]

My son is almost four and I recently had to stop giving him raw dairy. He has food allergies and appears intolerant to dairy with a serious intolerance to wheat/gluten. Since I stopped dairy about a month ago, I noticed the top parts of his front teeth are grayish brown. The bottom part of the teeth are white. Is this a calcium deficiency? What can I do to build up calcium if it is indeed a calcium deficiency? My chiropractor recommended rice milk but obviously that isn't very TF.  He will take some bone broth, but not overly much. I put it in what I can when I have it available.

[JMJ]

I would check out the book "Cure Tooth Decay."  There are several nutrients that work together to create healthy teeth, such as Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, Calcium, Potassium, Phosphorus, Vitamin C, and Zinc.  Your chicken and fish providers may be able to give you carcasses for cheap to free to make more bone broth.  After soaking my grains, I cook them all in bone broth, and then I make many soups with it as well.  Collard greens are also quite high in calcium.

[aihley]

Is this a lactose intolerance or a dairy allergy?  Fermentation will digest most of the lactose and provide healthful bacteria & enzymes - try some kefir, clabbered milk, or true buttermilk if you'd like to try and continue having dairy as part of his diet. 

ETA:  Proper amounts of vitamin D, A and K2 are necessary to be able to utilize the calcium in our diets - I strongly second the pp's suggestion.

[TonyaW]

I have Healing Our Children by Nagel which is pretty much the same thing as cure tooth decay. However the majority of the recommendations are butter, cheese, raw milk, fermented dairy, and shellfish. We can't do any of that right now. My son is intolerant to milk. I don't think it is lactose. I am not sure what fermented foods to put in his diet other than water kefir which I do, because he won't drink kombucha or eat strong flavored foods. Tonight we are having liver and onions with soaked rice, so we get liver regularly. We follow a TF diet, but obviously it can be improved. I am trying butter oil again to see how he does. My son is also allergic to shellfish so that is out. He eats sardines and salmon. I feel like I cannot really be TF, because my son cannot really eat the way Nagel recommends or WAPF. Obviously what I am doing now isn't enough if he is getting this discoloration in his teeth and he is so darn skinny and wants to eat all the time. He gets coconut all the time too.

[kyndmamaof4]

Greens, greens, GREENS!!! They provide lots of good stuff that you would get from grass fed milk..without the dairy problems. 

but...IMO, even if you can not eat a complete TF diet, it's not the end of the world. I think as long as you utilize as much of that information as possible, while adding in what you need to to make it work for your family you'll be just fine. It certainly isn't a Standard America Diet, ya know? You can make your own rice milk.

There are unlimited ways to get greens in your diet..lightly sauteed with garlic and your favorite healthy oil. Added to soups and mashes..We like kale, bacon, and mashed potatoes all mixed together..kind of like cull cannon. Spinach slightly wilted under a big scoop of beans and rice (we eat dark red kidneys and soaked brown rice with red wine vinegar, unrefined sea salt, and EVOO. I enjoy red onion finely minced too. All served hot on top of raw spinach. 

[Koalamom]

We are dairy and gluten free and feel that TF is possible.  I agree about greens being a great source of minerals. 

I have been stewing over the info by raw food leader David Wolfe that you don't need calcium to build calcium, and that the wrong kind can ruin your health.  So that is some food for thought.  I was bone bronth heavy since we cant do milk, but I have been cuttign that out since it wa creating alot of heqalth issues for us.  I would focus more on nettles infusions, and magnesium intake.

[TonyaW]

Oh I forgot about the nettles. Thanks for the reminder. I will have to try that again.

[cocobean]

You might check out the website www.marksdailyapple.com  He is a primal/paleo diet which is grain and mostly dairy free.  He has super information about what to eat and why.  He's probably not going to have info for your specific situation but he does follow what you're talking about.  Hope this helps!

[cyclamen]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 

We are dairy and gluten free and feel that TF is possible.  I agree about greens being a great source of minerals. 

I have been stewing over the info by raw food leader David Wolfe that you don't need calcium to build calcium, and that the wrong kind can ruin your health.  So that is some food for thought.  I was bone bronth heavy since we cant do milk, but I have been cuttign that out since it wa creating alot of heqalth issues for us.  I would focus more on nettles infusions, and magnesium intake.

What kind of issues did you all have with bone broth?

[Koalamom]

I am not 100% sure the issues we have had are from the bone broth, but it really makes sense.   I will try to shorten up the years of history.  Dh has a serious military injury, and the pain is tollerable.  He has great teeth and is very healthy other than that.  He hardly has any calcium intake, and can forget to brush his teeth if he wants and no cavities.  I on the other had am paraniod about calcium intake as I don't want to teeth to rot.  I have so mant cavities even though I eat a very strict TF diet.  Anyway, I have all the lumps pressing on my berves and have no feeling in some of my body and have had serious arthritic issues to the point to where I cant walk.   I was rerally splurging for a while and not being so TF, and I was gaining all feeling back i my body and my walking is perfect again- no arthritis issues.  Then I was worried about our calcium, and started making tons of deep bone broth, and my numbness came back, knees are hurting again, Dh was been in and out of the hospital from pain, and his military back injury is the worst in his life to the point that he can get up even.  And the kids who have lots of allergies, have been night waking, my ds especially like 10 times a night. 

I have 2 theorys-  The calcium intake is using out magnesium up, and with low mag, there are piles of issues.

Second is David Wolfes idea that calcium isn't needed to build calcium and that it is silica and magnesium.  He says that wrong calcium can build up i the body and cause health issues like heath, brain, eye, teeth, and other issues. 

Now for the first time in my life I am not focusing on calcium.  I stopped the bone broth.  It took one week and my son is sleeping through the night and he has never done that since he was born.  My neck is feeling slightly, but we will see how it goes.  I am still not 100% certain on this, but it makes sense.  All things in moderation.

OP, sorry to hyjack the thread with my sill story, but I was asked.  It really is a long story.  SometimeI should post about it in the H&H section to get feedback there...

[neverdoingitagain]

Read the 4th letter down, I think it would be of great interest to everyone on this thread( I sure thought it was!)

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-october.shtml

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by neverdoingitagain 

Read the 4th letter down, I think it would be of great interest to everyone on this thread( I sure thought it was!)

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2008-october.shtml

Awsome info!  Thanks for sharing!  (ps- I bet others in the dental thread would love to read it too.)

[TonyaW]

That is interesting info! Why then does WAP recommend so much vitamin A?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by TonyaW 

I have Healing Our Children by Nagel which is pretty much the same thing as cure tooth decay. However the majority of the recommendations are butter, cheese, raw milk, fermented dairy, and shellfish. We can't do any of that right now. My son is intolerant to milk. I don't think it is lactose. I am not sure what fermented foods to put in his diet other than water kefir which I do, because he won't drink kombucha or eat strong flavored foods. Tonight we are having liver and onions with soaked rice, so we get liver regularly. We follow a TF diet, but obviously it can be improved. I am trying butter oil again to see how he does. My son is also allergic to shellfish so that is out. He eats sardines and salmon. I feel like I cannot really be TF, because my son cannot really eat the way Nagel recommends or WAPF. Obviously what I am doing now isn't enough if he is getting this discoloration in his teeth and he is so darn skinny and wants to eat all the time. He gets coconut all the time too.

Since you're working on health problems, I'd just jump straight to cell salts.  I've seen good results in myself--my teeth have better coloration--and I've seen various things clear up for my kids.  And you may not want to consider this, or I could be totally wrong, but if you really feel he's eating a lot and still thin (and you aren't sure his activity level is the only thing to blame), maybe focus more on digestion.  It's a band-aid, but I started the kids on digestive enzymes this year and am happy for it.  It's not for everyone, and I don't know your situation well enough to say, but something to consider.

And I'd say you can eat very TF without dairy.  Honestly I use supplements too, I mean nutritional supps beyond cell salts, but combining that with the best I can do food-wise, I think that's good enough--I'm just not enough into liver to do TF without it.  And I actually think that often, when you're both trying to fix health problems AND supply the nutrients for good ongoing growth, supplements play a very helpful role.  Price's people were starting off pretty good nutritionally, that's the whole point of his work, and they ate the most nutritious stuff they could get--so how much more do we need to do to play catch-up?  Most of Price's groups didn't drink milk.  It's convenient, dairy is certainly tasty (the butter trial just failed here, so I'm feeling that one) but other foods can work--and like I said, I fill in the gaps with supplements.  I know it's not TF, but they seem to be working for us.  And eggs--do you tolerate eggs?  I love them and think they're one of the best things about our diet. 

Are pickles too strongly flavored?  For some kids they are, I know, but some kids love them when they don't like other strong-flavored stuff. 

Originally Posted by TonyaW 

That is interesting info! Why then does WAP recommend so much vitamin A?

Cannell and WAPF have had long-standing disagreements about how to interpret many studies over the years--they write amusing passionate letters back and forth periodically.  I tend to come down in the middle--I think the WAPF doesn't consider enough, or discuss, that probably most people in the US are _more_ vitamin D deficient than vitamin A deficient to start with, and that, for a variety of reasons, stand-alone vitamin D supplementation may be necessary and appropriate (and that CLO alone may worsen or at least not address D deficiency).  But I don't think that the vitamin D council sufficiently considers that studies based on the current US population reflect current eating habits--and supplementing A w/o addressing the D deficiency first, sometimes will exacerbate the D issue, but that's not looking at the optimal intake of A in the context of a nutrient-dense diet overall.  I've seen studies on vitamin D supplementation that sometimes show slight negative outcomes, but based on the health problems I read about, it looked more like a lack of magnesium to work with the D, rather than a problem with the vitamin D itself.  And perhaps the vitamin D council would recognize that, but I think they turn a blind eye to the same argument about vitamin A. 

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by tanyalynn 

Originally Posted by TonyaW 

I have Healing Our Children by Nagel which is pretty much the same thing as cure tooth decay. However the majority of the recommendations are butter, cheese, raw milk, fermented dairy, and shellfish. We can't do any of that right now. My son is intolerant to milk. I don't think it is lactose. I am not sure what fermented foods to put in his diet other than water kefir which I do, because he won't drink kombucha or eat strong flavored foods. Tonight we are having liver and onions with soaked rice, so we get liver regularly. We follow a TF diet, but obviously it can be improved. I am trying butter oil again to see how he does. My son is also allergic to shellfish so that is out. He eats sardines and salmon. I feel like I cannot really be TF, because my son cannot really eat the way Nagel recommends or WAPF. Obviously what I am doing now isn't enough if he is getting this discoloration in his teeth and he is so darn skinny and wants to eat all the time. He gets coconut all the time too.

Since you're working on health problems, I'd just jump straight to cell salts.  I've seen good results in myself--my teeth have better coloration--and I've seen various things clear up for my kids.  And you may not want to consider this, or I could be totally wrong, but if you really feel he's eating a lot and still thin (and you aren't sure his activity level is the only thing to blame), maybe focus more on digestion.  It's a band-aid, but I started the kids on digestive enzymes this year and am happy for it.  It's not for everyone, and I don't know your situation well enough to say, but something to consider.

And I'd say you can eat very TF without dairy.  Honestly I use supplements too, I mean nutritional supps beyond cell salts, but combining that with the best I can do food-wise, I think that's good enough--I'm just not enough into liver to do TF without it.  And I actually think that often, when you're both trying to fix health problems AND supply the nutrients for good ongoing growth, supplements play a very helpful role.  Price's people were starting off pretty good nutritionally, that's the whole point of his work, and they ate the most nutritious stuff they could get--so how much more do we need to do to play catch-up?  Most of Price's groups didn't drink milk.  It's convenient, dairy is certainly tasty (the butter trial just failed here, so I'm feeling that one) but other foods can work--and like I said, I fill in the gaps with supplements.  I know it's not TF, but they seem to be working for us.  And eggs--do you tolerate eggs?  I love them and think they're one of the best things about our diet. 

Are pickles too strongly flavored?  For some kids they are, I know, but some kids love them when they don't like other strong-flavored stuff. 

Originally Posted by TonyaW 

That is interesting info! Why then does WAP recommend so much vitamin A?

Cannell and WAPF have had long-standing disagreements about how to interpret many studies over the years--they write amusing passionate letters back and forth periodically.  I tend to come down in the middle--I think the WAPF doesn't consider enough, or discuss, that probably most people in the US are _more_ vitamin D deficient than vitamin A deficient to start with, and that, for a variety of reasons, stand-alone vitamin D supplementation may be necessary and appropriate (and that CLO alone may worsen or at least not address D deficiency).  But I don't think that the vitamin D council sufficiently considers that studies based on the current US population reflect current eating habits--and supplementing A w/o addressing the D deficiency first, sometimes will exacerbate the D issue, but that's not looking at the optimal intake of A in the context of a nutrient-dense diet overall.  I've seen studies on vitamin D supplementation that sometimes show slight negative outcomes, but based on the health problems I read about, it looked more like a lack of magnesium to work with the D, rather than a problem with the vitamin D itself.  And perhaps the vitamin D council would recognize that, but I think they turn a blind eye to the same argument about vitamin A. 

I use supplements as well, but food based supplements like Standard Process. What are cell salts and what brand do you use? What brand of digestive enzymes do you use? Yes, we eat eggs thank goodness.