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Sexual Curiousity: What is Normal for 5-y-old?! - Page 5

post #81 of 154
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcparker View Post

Has he asked you questions about sex and gender differences, reproduction, where did I come from, and of that sort of stuff? Can he articulate his motivations for pulling his pants down and wanting little girls to do the same?

 

In response to your question, he has said, "I am curious!" as his explanation for why this has happened.  He often laughs about it ("We saw each others' penises!") and acts like it's a funny thing.  Honestly, I don't think there's anything sexual about it, in the sense of wanting to be involved in a sexual or arousing act.  My son isn't even sexual with himself as far as touching himself.  It's not like he's obsessed with sexuality or stimulation.  All of his discussion about "private areas" revolves around joking about it and laughing about it and shaking his booty around, like other kids do.  He only showed shame about it when he had been told a few times NOT to be pulling his pants down and still did it, yet he didn't keep it a secret from me.  I think if he hadn't been told a few times not to do this, he would've just been laughing and saying "I saw her private area!!!"

 

Now you could say that the fact he's done this when he's been told not to shows a problem or obsession, but like others mentioned (e.g. "I tell my son not to hit his brother, but he still does it anyway"), I also tell him not to do a lot of things that he still does!  Isn't that part of being five?  

 

There's also been a lot of talk at school amongst the other boys with them saying things to each other like "kiss my butt" and "smell my butt" (clothed, putting their butts in each others' faces and laughing).  It's very clear to me that in his mind and the other kids who are saying these things that this is 1) funny, and 2) disgusting.  It seems like very typical boy stuff to me.  None of this has been initiated by my son, but by the other kids at school.

 

I agree with what some of the other posters have said, that just because he's had other issues, I personally don't think that this means that ALL of his behavior is abnormal.  I did talk about this in detail with his therapist today (when my son wasn't there), and she said she thought this was VERY normal for this age, even asking another child to touch his butt hole, which my son said didn't happen.  My son's therapist said fascination with genitals and even anuses is very normal for this age, and that just because he asked someone to touch that area doesn't mean it's sexual.  She did say that since he seems to be having issues with keeping his hands to himself and his pants on (even though she said what he's doing is completely normal, even if touching was involved, which it hasn't been yet), that he shouldn't be taken to an play area where I can't see him, which is a conclusion I have already reached. 

 

Honestly, I believe him, as I have seen this other little girl (my friend's daughter) blatantly lie to her mom MANY times.  I have witnessed incidents where she wasn't just misinterpreting what happened, but flat out lying about it,  My son has only lied to me once or twice.  He rarely lies.  So this makes it very hard for me to completely believe what my friend's daughter said, since she seems to have a significant issue with lying.

 

Now, all of this said, it's not like I am just saying, "This is all completely fine and normal," but I don't think he's a few years away from becoming a sexual predator, as some seem to have suggested.  I think his behavior seems like normal curiosity and silliness.  BUT I am still going to make sure that aside from school (which I can't monitor, and that bugs me) I won't put him into situations where he might be tempted to continue this behavior.  I will have to make sure I can always see what he's doing.  This means we can no longer go to our favorite place for him to play, which will be a huge loss for us (especially for me as a single mom, as I could sit there and work on my laptop while he played), but I don't want this to become a compulsive behavior.  This means I won't be able to take him to the gym childcare center so I can work out, as they don't supervise the children there as closely as they could, and there are some play structures there that would also allow him to be hidden.  I am not sure if he'd try this with a child he just met, as this has only happened with kids he knows, but I want to be careful.  I don't think he has a serious problem, but I don't want anything to develop into a serious problem, so I am going to remove him from the opportunity to be involved in these activities, except for school, which I don't have control over.  I have talked about this with his teacher and the principal, but there are times when he might be alone with other kids, like in the bathroom. 

 

I have ordered a bunch of books about the human body and keeping your private areas private also, so hopefully that will help with his curiosity.

 


 

post #82 of 154
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Brendan View Post

If other kids are showing him 'habbits' like that there may be some issue going with their people that are in their family like if some kid talks about mouth on penis he is getting that from somewhere or penis in butts .

This is a good general rule, but it's not always true. DS2 comes up with this stuff completely on his own. If you heard/saw him in these discussions, there would be no question. I've also heard him make suggestions to touch his butthole (and I don't think it was actually confirmed that OP's ds said that). This is because he knows that it's not okay to talk like that, and he knows it gets a reaction. He has no conception of it in the sexual sense at all. He has said similar things about kissing his penis...and it's no different than when he talks about kissing his elbow or his nose or his ear or whatever.

 

Even the generally accepted red flags about sexual abuse issues aren't always red flags. I


StormBride:

 

I agree with you that at this age, sometimes kids (especially boys, it seems) say things to get a rise out of you.  My son has never said "Kiss my butthole" or something like that to me, but I could see him saying it simply because he KNOWS that's something that you don't do, and that it's a little gross.  He's really into the gross out factor.  I don't think it's sexual for him.  I think he's trying to be controversial.

post #83 of 154
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by anne1140 View Post

I know your son is not doing exactly what I described above, but the pulling a girl's pants down concerns me. For those who think it's not a problem, how would you feel if you were that girl? She should have the right, no matter her age or the age of the instigator, to feel safe and not have that happen to her. It doesn't matter what the reason was that he did it. The result is still the same. The girl could feel humiliated either way. Yes, even at 5. 

 

So that's where I stand on it. I have a boy this year who is overly infatuated with his penis, and to an extent, I think it's normal, but I do have a problem with him chasing other boys around the bathroom with his pants down (he has done this), because he is involving other boys who tell him pretty clearly not to do it. 

 

I am not about shaming sexuality at all, but I am about teaching respect for others and proper boundaries. 


I COMPLETELY and TOTALLY agree with this.  I don't think it's ok for him to pull down others' pants or force them to do anything.  I think he was trying to do this to be funny, but I don't think that makes it ok!  Just like it's not funny if he punches someone on the arm and says it's "play fighting, not real fighting" or anything else.  Just because you think something's funny doesn't mean the other person does, and some behaviors are just not acceptable.  I am 100% in agreement with you on teaching respect for others' boundaries.

 

As far as I know, there has only been one incident of doing something without the other person's consent, though the incident with my friend's daughter remains murky for reasons I've already explained, including her penchant for lying.

post #84 of 154
Thread Starter 

I think the Miss Noodles wasn't saying it was ok to "put your hand in there."  I think she was saying it's normal to do a "you show me yours, I'll show you mine" sort of thing.  When force is involved, that's a totally different thing, and I don't think that's what she was saying at all.  She specifically said "wanting to look at other kids."
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by missnoodlesmom View Post

Is wanting to look at other kids really that far off from figuring out your own body?  I don't understand why child masterbation is "okay" but wondering what is going on in someone else's pants isn't.  Kids love to classify and figure things out - this seems within that realm to me.  That and a combination of getting such a big reaction from Mom when anything about his weiner comes up.  It just seems pretty ridiculous that most of you think it's such an awful thing.  


Wow.  So b/c a child is curious about whats going on in someone elses pants its ok to put their hand in there?  I think a better way to address that would be some books on the human anatomy, written in an age appropriate manner.

 

For a child to touch themselves is ok b/c they will stop when it starts making them uncomfortable, and they have control over their own genitals that way.  To be ok with a child putting their hands down someone elses pants, teaches the other child that they don't have the right to bodily autonomy - which they do.  Children need to be able to have boundaries just like adults do.

post #85 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisou View Post

View Post


I COMPLETELY and TOTALLY agree with this.  I don't think it's ok for him to pull down others' pants or force them to do anything.  I think he was trying to do this to be funny, but I don't think that makes it ok!  Just like it's not funny if he punches someone on the arm and says it's "play fighting, not real fighting" or anything else.  Just because you think something's funny doesn't mean the other person does, and some behaviors are just not acceptable.  I am 100% in agreement with you on teaching respect for others' boundaries.

 

As far as I know, there has only been one incident of doing something without the other person's consent, though the incident with my friend's daughter remains murky for reasons I've already explained, including her penchant for lying.



Do you understand that this child was sexually assaulted? Her genitals were exposed, without her consent, by force. Even if that is the only time it happened against someone's will, it is unacceptable.

post #86 of 154

all living things are sexual. we have genitals from birth. sexual beings, sexual nature, etc. and that's ok. you guide the kids along down the path of our culture and they learn restraint. no big deal. : )

 

op, i think you are handing this fine. having a levelheaded parent is a great blessing.

post #87 of 154
Thread Starter 

I agree that it's not ok to pull down someone's pants, but I think calling it a "sexual assault" is WAY beyond what is called for here.  He is FIVE YEARS OLD, not 10, not 15.  He has no idea what sex is, and he's just doing something that he thinks is funny.  Inappropriate?  YES.  But I think calling a five year old boy pulling down another child's pants a sexual assault is not accurate in any way. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisou View Post

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I COMPLETELY and TOTALLY agree with this.  I don't think it's ok for him to pull down others' pants or force them to do anything.  I think he was trying to do this to be funny, but I don't think that makes it ok!  Just like it's not funny if he punches someone on the arm and says it's "play fighting, not real fighting" or anything else.  Just because you think something's funny doesn't mean the other person does, and some behaviors are just not acceptable.  I am 100% in agreement with you on teaching respect for others' boundaries.

 

As far as I know, there has only been one incident of doing something without the other person's consent, though the incident with my friend's daughter remains murky for reasons I've already explained, including her penchant for lying.



Do you understand that this child was sexually assaulted? Her genitals were exposed, without her consent, by force. Even if that is the only time it happened against someone's will, it is unacceptable.

post #88 of 154

Neither of my boys ever engaged in any kind of sex play.  I did when I was that age but I'm pretty sure I was molested really young and cant remember it. 

post #89 of 154


It doesn't matter what he thought, it matters what happened to her. It was by force, and against her will and it involved her genitals. Please see this from the victim's perspective. I understand that you feel the need to defend your child, but this is very very serious and he is continuing to act out, in-spite of therapy, I think it is time to consult another therapist.

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bisou View Post

I agree that it's not ok to pull down someone's pants, but I think calling it a "sexual assault" is WAY beyond what is called for here.  He is FIVE YEARS OLD, not 10, not 15.  He has no idea what sex is, and he's just doing something that he thinks is funny.  Inappropriate?  YES.  But I think calling a five year old boy pulling down another child's pants a sexual assault is not accurate in any way.
 

post #90 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~PurityLake~ View Post

If I were your friend, I would have cut off all contact between my daughter and your son, as well.



same here.  my friend has a son that has engaged with some pretty sexual activities with kids younger than him.  her son is in therapy now but I don't want my son around him at all.  so they haven't seen each other in almost a year. 

post #91 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisou View Post

View Post


I COMPLETELY and TOTALLY agree with this.  I don't think it's ok for him to pull down others' pants or force them to do anything.  I think he was trying to do this to be funny, but I don't think that makes it ok!  Just like it's not funny if he punches someone on the arm and says it's "play fighting, not real fighting" or anything else.  Just because you think something's funny doesn't mean the other person does, and some behaviors are just not acceptable.  I am 100% in agreement with you on teaching respect for others' boundaries.

 

As far as I know, there has only been one incident of doing something without the other person's consent, though the incident with my friend's daughter remains murky for reasons I've already explained, including her penchant for lying.



Do you understand that this child was sexually assaulted? Her genitals were exposed, without her consent, by force. Even if that is the only time it happened against someone's will, it is unacceptable.

Did he actually do it against her will? Did he sneak up on her and pull her pants down? Did he ask and she said 'no' and he did it anyway? I guess I missed that he did this against her will. I thought I read the OP specifically say that he asked the girl to pull her pants down.

 

Any which way you cut it, I do agree it's kind of a stretch to be labeling a 5 year old as a sexual assailant. If he actually did pull down another child's pants  against their will (and I would consider that to mean that the child said no and he did it forcefully, OR that he ran up and pulled their pants down without asking) then the problem still remains that this is disrespectful. He needs a good lesson in boundaries. He doesn't need to be added to the sexual predator list. Sheesh.

 

As a child I remember kids doing this A LOT!!! It was a very popular game. Some kids would dare another kid to run and pull down so and so's pants. They would work up the courage to do it and then everyone would have a good laugh. It was mean. But it wasn't a sexual assault in the context that some people here are referring to it. I even remember one incident in first grade where the teacher left the classroom for a minute. There was a boy who 'liked' me and him and his friends chased me around the room and held me down and 'kissed my privates' as the other kids were chanting it. My pants were on. It all happened in all of 3 seconds. It was traumatizing in the moment and it was mean. He should have gotten in trouble for it but I never told anyone. Looking back at it, though, I still wouldn't refer to it as sexual assault. Maybe someone else in my position would, but I didn't even remember it until just now. I don't think he was a bad kid, and I don't think what happened was beyond the realm of normal for a bunch of 6 year olds left to their own devices in a classroom. Almost the entire class participated and not one kid seemed to think it was weird. This kid is now a well adjusted man and perfectly normal from what I can tell. He wasn't a predator in the making. He was just a kid.
 

post #92 of 154
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MammaB21 View Post

Did he actually do it against her will? Did he sneak up on her and pull her pants down? Did he ask and she said 'no' and he did it anyway? I guess I missed that he did this against her will. I thought I read the OP specifically say that he asked the girl to pull her pants down.

 

Any which way you cut it, I do agree it's kind of a stretch to be labeling a 5 year old as a sexual assailant. If he actually did pull down another child's pants  against their will (and I would consider that to mean that the child said no and he did it forcefully, OR that he ran up and pulled their pants down without asking) then the problem still remains that this is disrespectful. He needs a good lesson in boundaries. He doesn't need to be added to the sexual predator list. Sheesh.

 

As a child I remember kids doing this A LOT!!! It was a very popular game. Some kids would dare another kid to run and pull down so and so's pants. They would work up the courage to do it and then everyone would have a good laugh. It was mean. But it wasn't a sexual assault in the context that some people here are referring to it. I even remember one incident in first grade where the teacher left the classroom for a minute. There was a boy who 'liked' me and him and his friends chased me around the room and held me down and 'kissed my privates' as the other kids were chanting it. My pants were on. It all happened in all of 3 seconds. It was traumatizing in the moment and it was mean. He should have gotten in trouble for it but I never told anyone. Looking back at it, though, I still wouldn't refer to it as sexual assault. Maybe someone else in my position would, but I didn't even remember it until just now. I don't think he was a bad kid, and I don't think what happened was beyond the realm of normal for a bunch of 6 year olds left to their own devices in a classroom. Almost the entire class participated and not one kid seemed to think it was weird. This kid is now a well adjusted man and perfectly normal from what I can tell. He wasn't a predator in the making. He was just a kid.
 


There was one incident at school where he pulled another girl's pants down, but I don't think she said no.  I think it was just a quick pulling down of pants.  I haven't asked him in a lot of detail about that incident, but I made it very clear that it is NOT ok to pull down someone else's pants. 

 

This also happened to me at least two or three times in school (having someone pull down my pants), and while it was VERY embarrassing, I didn't feel traumatized by the incident.  It was just another one of those things that kids often do.  I was way more upset the time a boy took my shoes and threw them off the school bus! 

 

In the incident with my friend's daughter, he ASKED her to pull down her pants, and she did so.  According to him, she did so willingly and was laughing about it. 

post #93 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post

I don't think I'm a big prude and I sure do my best to encourage healthy views of sexuality in our household.  We all share one bathroom, so we all see eachother often enough around here (just as a frame of reference for you).

 

I don't know if the boy is acting out abuse or if he's just being a silly boy.  I DO know that the one boy that age whose mother knew he had done an "exploration" with a little girl at daycare was open with me about it BEFORE we had an incident and we didn't leave our kids unsupervised for quite a number of months after it happened.  Well, even now a year or two later I don't send the kids upstairs alone together because I know my daughter and the boy and for sexual and behavioral reasons it just doesn't seem wise.  I don't hold anything against the kid, we're still good friends, BUT I was INFORMED and we MONITORED.  The OP didn't do that right away.  I can see how that would be upsetting.

 

Tjej

 

I don't get this. I don't see where the OP wasn't completely forthcoming about what happened and tried to set boundaries and work through it with her friend. If you're insinuating that she should have 'warned' her friend BEFORE anything happened, I'll have to respectfully but firmly disagree with that tactic. Think of it this way, if your child hit one of their siblings in a heated moment, would you forever 'warn' all of your play dates that your child is a 'hitter' for the sake of full disclosure? It's extremely unfair to that child to be labeled as something, no matter how many times it happens. I sure wouldn't want to call up my friend and disclose every little negative thing my child had done before getting our kids together. THEIR KIDS!!! They mess up. It's how they learn. It's our job to guide them, not shut them down and back them into a lifelong label at age 5.

 

We've all agreed that what the OP's son did was out of line and that action needs to be dealt with. But honestly, what should she do that she isn't already doing? She's talked to her son about why it's disrespectful and not nice to pressure other kids. She has asked him questions to try and get to the bottom of why he's doing it. She has brought him to counseling and talked with his therapist about this. She has talked to the school and asked the teacher to keep an extra eye on things. What else would you all suggest she do?

 

post #94 of 154
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MammaB21 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post

I don't think I'm a big prude and I sure do my best to encourage healthy views of sexuality in our household.  We all share one bathroom, so we all see eachother often enough around here (just as a frame of reference for you).

 

I don't know if the boy is acting out abuse or if he's just being a silly boy.  I DO know that the one boy that age whose mother knew he had done an "exploration" with a little girl at daycare was open with me about it BEFORE we had an incident and we didn't leave our kids unsupervised for quite a number of months after it happened.  Well, even now a year or two later I don't send the kids upstairs alone together because I know my daughter and the boy and for sexual and behavioral reasons it just doesn't seem wise.  I don't hold anything against the kid, we're still good friends, BUT I was INFORMED and we MONITORED.  The OP didn't do that right away.  I can see how that would be upsetting.

 

Tjej

 

I don't get this. I don't see where the OP wasn't completely forthcoming about what happened and tried to set boundaries and work through it with her friend. If you're insinuating that she should have 'warned' her friend BEFORE anything happened, I'll have to respectfully but firmly disagree with that tactic. Think of it this way, if your child hit one of their siblings in a heated moment, would you forever 'warn' all of your play dates that your child is a 'hitter' for the sake of full disclosure? It's extremely unfair to that child to be labeled as something, no matter how many times it happens. I sure wouldn't want to call up my friend and disclose every little negative thing my child had done before getting our kids together. THEIR KIDS!!! They mess up. It's how they learn. It's our job to guide them, not shut them down and back them into a lifelong label at age 5.

 

We've all agreed that what the OP's son did was out of line and that action needs to be dealt with. But honestly, what should she do that she isn't already doing? She's talked to her son about why it's disrespectful and not nice to pressure other kids. She has asked him questions to try and get to the bottom of why he's doing it. She has brought him to counseling and talked with his therapist about this. She has talked to the school and asked the teacher to keep an extra eye on things. What else would you all suggest she do?

 


Tjej:  If you're going to go with that line of logic, my friend ALSO didn't inform me that her daughter had been involved in these sorts of interactions multiple times with multiple kids at school over a two year period, to the point that the principal and counselors and multiple people were involved in trying to get it to stop.  There were even investigations going on about this at her school!  It sounds quite serious.  My friend's daughter already had problems with this same issue, and I wasn't notified either. 

 

Honestly, in thinking about the situation, I think her daughter already knew she wasn't supposed to be engaging in this kind of behavior, she has a propensity towards lying (which I have personally witnessed), and I think it's very possible that she fabricated this story in order to excuse her own participation in the activities. 

 

If my son really did what he said he did, which was asked her nicely to pull down her pants and he pulled down his own pants, I guess I don't see what's so abnormal about this.  Do I want to just say, "This is normal, no big whup"?  NO.  Do I want him to continue because it's "normal"?  NO.  But some of the comments that have been made, like he's steps away from being a sexual offender and that he committed a sexual assault (I guess against the girl in his class whose pants he pulled down), I think that's ridiculous.

 

That said, I think it would be stupid not to closely monitor this situation and not to prevent him from being in situations where this could happen again.  Better safe than sorry, I think.

 

 

 

 

post #95 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MammaB21 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post

I don't think I'm a big prude and I sure do my best to encourage healthy views of sexuality in our household.  We all share one bathroom, so we all see eachother often enough around here (just as a frame of reference for you).

 

I don't know if the boy is acting out abuse or if he's just being a silly boy.  I DO know that the one boy that age whose mother knew he had done an "exploration" with a little girl at daycare was open with me about it BEFORE we had an incident and we didn't leave our kids unsupervised for quite a number of months after it happened.  Well, even now a year or two later I don't send the kids upstairs alone together because I know my daughter and the boy and for sexual and behavioral reasons it just doesn't seem wise.  I don't hold anything against the kid, we're still good friends, BUT I was INFORMED and we MONITORED.  The OP didn't do that right away.  I can see how that would be upsetting.

 

Tjej

 

I don't get this. I don't see where the OP wasn't completely forthcoming about what happened and tried to set boundaries and work through it with her friend. If you're insinuating that she should have 'warned' her friend BEFORE anything happened, I'll have to respectfully but firmly disagree with that tactic. Think of it this way, if your child hit one of their siblings in a heated moment, would you forever 'warn' all of your play dates that your child is a 'hitter' for the sake of full disclosure? It's extremely unfair to that child to be labeled as something, no matter how many times it happens. I sure wouldn't want to call up my friend and disclose every little negative thing my child had done before getting our kids together. THEIR KIDS!!! They mess up. It's how they learn. It's our job to guide them, not shut them down and back them into a lifelong label at age 5.

 

We've all agreed that what the OP's son did was out of line and that action needs to be dealt with. But honestly, what should she do that she isn't already doing? She's talked to her son about why it's disrespectful and not nice to pressure other kids. She has asked him questions to try and get to the bottom of why he's doing it. She has brought him to counseling and talked with his therapist about this. She has talked to the school and asked the teacher to keep an extra eye on things. What else would you all suggest she do?

 



If my child had hit kids a number of times recently, you bet I would tell my friend - especially if my kid and hers might be out of eyesight (I likely might not allow them out of sight because of it).  No, I wouldn't talk about it if my kid hit his sister once recently, but I think we all know there is a big difference between kids 1x lashing out at a sibling and repeated behavior with peers.

 

It sounds like the OP is taking the necessary steps now and is monitoring her son.  Sounds good.  I still totally get why her friend would be upset, and if the OP doesn't get it, then it will be hard for them to work it out.

 

Tjej 

post #96 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by MammaB21 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjej View Post

I don't think I'm a big prude and I sure do my best to encourage healthy views of sexuality in our household.  We all share one bathroom, so we all see eachother often enough around here (just as a frame of reference for you).

 

I don't know if the boy is acting out abuse or if he's just being a silly boy.  I DO know that the one boy that age whose mother knew he had done an "exploration" with a little girl at daycare was open with me about it BEFORE we had an incident and we didn't leave our kids unsupervised for quite a number of months after it happened.  Well, even now a year or two later I don't send the kids upstairs alone together because I know my daughter and the boy and for sexual and behavioral reasons it just doesn't seem wise.  I don't hold anything against the kid, we're still good friends, BUT I was INFORMED and we MONITORED.  The OP didn't do that right away.  I can see how that would be upsetting.

 

Tjej

 

I don't get this. I don't see where the OP wasn't completely forthcoming about what happened and tried to set boundaries and work through it with her friend. If you're insinuating that she should have 'warned' her friend BEFORE anything happened, I'll have to respectfully but firmly disagree with that tactic. Think of it this way, if your child hit one of their siblings in a heated moment, would you forever 'warn' all of your play dates that your child is a 'hitter' for the sake of full disclosure? It's extremely unfair to that child to be labeled as something, no matter how many times it happens. I sure wouldn't want to call up my friend and disclose every little negative thing my child had done before getting our kids together. THEIR KIDS!!! They mess up. It's how they learn. It's our job to guide them, not shut them down and back them into a lifelong label at age 5.

 

We've all agreed that what the OP's son did was out of line and that action needs to be dealt with. But honestly, what should she do that she isn't already doing? She's talked to her son about why it's disrespectful and not nice to pressure other kids. She has asked him questions to try and get to the bottom of why he's doing it. She has brought him to counseling and talked with his therapist about this. She has talked to the school and asked the teacher to keep an extra eye on things. What else would you all suggest she do?

 



If my child had hit kids a number of times recently,



Would you consider 3-4 times (a couple of which may have been hearsay or fabrications) in the past 2-3 years 'recently'. Because that's basically what the OP was dealing with. I think she offered up the history for full disclosure for a proper answer to her question on this thread. It's not like all of these things happened one right after another, though.

 

My daughter and my nephew get together once a week, and every week we have at least one instance where a kid comes running in saying so and so hit so and so, or cousin pulled my hair, threw that toy at me etc. That doesn't mean I 'warn' all of our other play dates that there is a potential for DD to hit their kid. I think all kids carry that potential and I feel equally about genital curiosity. Any time I get my daughter together with a peer I'm taking the risk of the kids fighting or exploring or getting into something they shouldn't.

post #97 of 154


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post


It doesn't matter what he thought, it matters what happened to her. It was by force, and against her will and it involved her genitals. Please see this from the victim's perspective.


 

When you look at it from the victim's perspective, it seems really hard to justify calling it "sexual assault" when a 5 year old pulls down another 5 year old's pants.  Most 5 year olds don't connect their genitals to sex.  Many of them still have no idea there is such a thing as sex.  I'm pretty sure most 5 year old girls who get their pants pulled down are not going to have feelings anything like the feelings of a teenager or adult who is sexually assaulted.  They're more likely to think, "How embarassing!" or "How annoying!" or "Stupid boy, I'll pull his pants down!" or maybe even think it's kind of funny.

 

I'm not saying it's just harmless fun when a kid pulls down another kid's pants.  I'm just saying I think it's going way too far to call it "sexual assault" when the kids involved aren't old enough to think of it in sexual terms.

post #98 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post


It doesn't matter what he thought, it matters what happened to her. It was by force, and against her will and it involved her genitals. Please see this from the victim's perspective.


 

When you look at it from the victim's perspective, it seems really hard to justify calling it "sexual assault" when a 5 year old pulls down another 5 year old's pants.  Most 5 year olds don't connect their genitals to sex.  Many of them still have no idea there is such a thing as sex.  I'm pretty sure most 5 year old girls who get their pants pulled down are not going to have feelings anything like the feelings of a teenager or adult who is sexually assaulted.  They're more likely to think, "How embarassing!" or "How annoying!" or "Stupid boy, I'll pull his pants down!" or maybe even think it's kind of funny.

 

I'm not saying it's just harmless fun when a kid pulls down another kid's pants.  I'm just saying I think it's going way too far to call it "sexual assault" when the kids involved aren't old enough to think of it in sexual terms.



Except in this situation the child DOES have a history of sexual abuse, so he is already sexualized and at high risk of acting out sexually....which it seems that he is already doing.

post #99 of 154


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post


It doesn't matter what he thought, it matters what happened to her. It was by force, and against her will and it involved her genitals. Please see this from the victim's perspective.


 

When you look at it from the victim's perspective, it seems really hard to justify calling it "sexual assault" when a 5 year old pulls down another 5 year old's pants.  Most 5 year olds don't connect their genitals to sex.  Many of them still have no idea there is such a thing as sex.  I'm pretty sure most 5 year old girls who get their pants pulled down are not going to have feelings anything like the feelings of a teenager or adult who is sexually assaulted.  They're more likely to think, "How embarassing!" or "How annoying!" or "Stupid boy, I'll pull his pants down!" or maybe even think it's kind of funny.

 

I'm not saying it's just harmless fun when a kid pulls down another kid's pants.  I'm just saying I think it's going way too far to call it "sexual assault" when the kids involved aren't old enough to think of it in sexual terms.



Except in this situation the child DOES have a history of sexual abuse, so he is already sexualized and at high risk of acting out sexually....which it seems that he is already doing.


Actually, the way the OP described the abuse, it involved injuries to the genitals, but didn't appear to be sexual. 

post #100 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairejour View Post


It doesn't matter what he thought, it matters what happened to her. It was by force, and against her will and it involved her genitals. Please see this from the victim's perspective. I understand that you feel the need to defend your child, but this is very very serious and he is continuing to act out, in-spite of therapy, I think it is time to consult another therapist.

  


Agrred.  new therapist for sure.
 

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