So confused by budgeting/personal finance-- Updated! - Page 2

[heatherdeg]

First, CONGRATULATIONS.  You have conquered SUCH a tremendous task!!!!!!
 

Originally Posted by texmati 

 

I never thought that I would be in this position, but once a year conversations at tax time about how we are doing are simply not enough. Hopefully in a few months time we'll be back on track again.

I think this is the most important thing you've written here.  What you've discovered here is life-changing.  And that your husband is receptive and working WITH you is H U G E.  You guys have the best odds of success...  GOOD FOR YOU!!!  My husband VERY much had the same "she's way better at the money than I am" mentality, too.  I seriously have no clue why he thought this.  Especially since at one point (many years ago) I was begging him to be involved because I recognized that I had a serious spending problem with no accountability and it was doing us in financially.  He still didn't step in.  I'm very methodical about what money is going where--my issues are different than your dh's issues.  I think that some people just get it in their heads that their spouse has some kind of knowledge that they don't have and therefore, there's nothing for you to offer.  In my husband's case, he definitely felt he didn't have nearly any experience to contribute any worthwhile input into our money.  What he didn't realize was that just his own upbringing and beliefs around money--or "how things were done" in his family (which were drastically different than mine) DID matter.  They were worthwhile things to consider and think about and wonder if they might be worthwhile ideas to implement in our family.  He said that I'd lived on my own and managed my money for years before him.  I pointed out to him that much of what I knew and he didn't had to do with being a high school graduate with a car payment I didn't ask for and trying to make ends meet--not building wealth.  Hello?  I pointed out to him the differences in our families NOW (his being far better off than mine).  I'm finally over being really bitter about him doing this for so long.  But maybe your husband is like I am, and only knows money the way he's doing it.  He sounds very open to working WITH you, so maybe you can bring some clarity to the tracking where he might have some insights in another area.  It sounds like you have a great opportunity for teamwork there.

I find it confusing to have a lot of accounts if there's no really good systems of tracing the transfers.  But if you can set it up so that you have a good way to tracking all of it, great.

As for where the money comes from for whatever, I think that really depends on how you're using all of these accounts.  In my household, we would have been accumulating money in a separate account for a vehicle purchase (we're about to embark on the "starting to save for the next vehicle" endeavor now).  We might have to transfer that lump sum into our "monthly expenses" account when we go to purchase the vehicle because we might have stuck it in a CD or something and we need to write a check, but we wouldn't keep the money co-mingled.  But that's just me.
 

And it's the seemingly non-negotiable stuff that makes the difference with what you can or can't manage that IS negotiable.  You didn't pay it any mind because it wasn't optional, but now that you're seeing that BECAUSE it's not optional and it's costing as much as it is, there are other things within your control that you probably won't do for a while.

Also, it sounds like you may have had an "exceptional" year.  Be sure to identify what's a one-time thing that hit you this year (sounds like a few big ones this past year) and what's ongoing.  Also be sure to figure out how you're going to accommodate those one-offs if/when they happen again.  A vehicle is going to happen at some point even if it's 10 years from now.  If you start working on it now, it will be far more painless than waiting 5 years. Medical bills are another story.  In our house, we have a lot of "sinking funds"--places where money accumulates for those one-offs (expected and unexpected).  We also have some scenarios that we don't do sinking funds for and just know that our emergency money is there for that.  These are decisions you guys need to consider.  I wonder if getting those figured out and worked into your budget might make you more at ease about staying home.  For me, knowing we wouldn't be blindsided by most things was a huge security factor.

Your situation sounds so hopeful!  I'm so happy for you!!!

[GirlBoyGirl]

I have my checking at PNC and their Virtual Wallet is soooo awesome. I love it! There are so many organizational tools on there but one great thing is that it will categorize your spending (you can change the category it assigns if you want to) so you can see where your money goes.

[sunnysandiegan]

You are doing GREAT!

[texmati]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

First, CONGRATULATIONS.  You have conquered SUCH a tremendous task!!!!!!
 

Originally Posted by texmati 

 

I never thought that I would be in this position, but once a year conversations at tax time about how we are doing are simply not enough. Hopefully in a few months time we'll be back on track again.

I think this is the most important thing you've written here.  What you've discovered here is life-changing.  And that your husband is receptive and working WITH you is H U G E.  You guys have the best odds of success...  GOOD FOR YOU!!!  My husband VERY much had the same "she's way better at the money than I am" mentality, too.  I seriously have no clue why he thought this.  Especially since at one point (many years ago) I was begging him to be involved because I recognized that I had a serious spending problem with no accountability and it was doing us in financially.  He still didn't step in.  I'm very methodical about what money is going where--my issues are different than your dh's issues.  I think that some people just get it in their heads that their spouse has some kind of knowledge that they don't have and therefore, there's nothing for you to offer.  In my husband's case, he definitely felt he didn't have nearly any experience to contribute any worthwhile input into our money.  What he didn't realize was that just his own upbringing and beliefs around money--or "how things were done" in his family (which were drastically different than mine) DID matter.  They were worthwhile things to consider and think about and wonder if they might be worthwhile ideas to implement in our family.  He said that I'd lived on my own and managed my money for years before him.  I pointed out to him that much of what I knew and he didn't had to do with being a high school graduate with a car payment I didn't ask for and trying to make ends meet--not building wealth.  Hello?  I pointed out to him the differences in our families NOW (his being far better off than mine).  I'm finally over being really bitter about him doing this for so long.  But maybe your husband is like I am, and only knows money the way he's doing it.  He sounds very open to working WITH you, so maybe you can bring some clarity to the tracking where he might have some insights in another area.  It sounds like you have a great opportunity for teamwork there.

Thanks heather, and sunny! to be honest, I don't feel great about it-- it's a little worrysome and stressful, but I just keep reminding myself that we are in the exact same spot as two weeks ago-- just that we *know* now.

ITA, DH is totally open to working on it together, and it was fun to have an excuse to sit down and work on something together. I feel bad for just sticking him with all this (the day to day bill stuff) for the past few years. Heather, I hope your DH comes around soon! it's a lot on one person's shoulders, especially if the decisions aren't easy ones.

I *absolutely* felt that DH knew something I didn't... well, because he did. We got married at 24 and he'd been on his own since he was 16. He had a car, apartment, insurance, his own bank account, etc. I had a job, my bank account, and a mandate frommy dad to max out all my retirement accounts since I was living at home. I learned about mortgages and taxes and retirement, since they were new to both of us, but day to day budgeting and bill paying, I left to him, since I just sort of moved in with him. I wish he had insisted (and I had listened) a bit more that we do all this together even though we were doing pretty well until this year.

Reflecting, I just have known something was wrong-- this year our exhaustion level has been through the roof, and we've drastically increased how much we are willing to pay for convineince. At the same time, our childcare cost has risen steadily over the past year we needed more hours and more help around the house.

I find it confusing to have a lot of accounts if there's no really good systems of tracing the transfers.  But if you can set it up so that you have a good way to tracking all of it, great.

As for where the money comes from for whatever, I think that really depends on how you're using all of these accounts.  In my household, we would have been accumulating money in a separate account for a vehicle purchase (we're about to embark on the "starting to save for the next vehicle" endeavor now).  We might have to transfer that lump sum into our "monthly expenses" account when we go to purchase the vehicle because we might have stuck it in a CD or something and we need to write a check, but we wouldn't keep the money co-mingled.  But that's just me.
 

And it's the seemingly non-negotiable stuff that makes the difference with what you can or can't manage that IS negotiable.  You didn't pay it any mind because it wasn't optional, but now that you're seeing that BECAUSE it's not optional and it's costing as much as it is, there are other things within your control that you probably won't do for a while.

Also, it sounds like you may have had an "exceptional" year.  Be sure to identify what's a one-time thing that hit you this year (sounds like a few big ones this past year) and what's ongoing.  Also be sure to figure out how you're going to accommodate those one-offs if/when they happen again.  A vehicle is going to happen at some point even if it's 10 years from now.  If you start working on it now, it will be far more painless than waiting 5 years. Medical bills are another story.  In our house, we have a lot of "sinking funds"--places where money accumulates for those one-offs (expected and unexpected).  We also have some scenarios that we don't do sinking funds for and just know that our emergency money is there for that.  These are decisions you guys need to consider.  I wonder if getting those figured out and worked into your budget might make you more at ease about staying home.  For me, knowing we wouldn't be blindsided by most things was a huge security factor.

Your situation sounds so hopeful!  I'm so happy for you!!!

ITA, having so many accounts is confusing. I'm not ready to ask DH to change anything, but definitely want to limit and discuss all this tranfering business before it happens.

I do agree that this year was tough... I think we could easily cut back and get things back to normal if I continued to work next year. My heart is just not in it anymore-- I've had one foot out the door for months now-- it's hard to accept it might not be possible. Or that it would come at the expense of retirement savings and paying off the mortgage early.

We def need to think about how to handle the 'savings' that are in the account now. I definitely don't want to use them for expenses that should come out of our monthly budget. That being said... it makes me feel like however much we save, I won't ever be able to sah, since sah-ing cuts our income so much.

[heatherdeg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by texmati 

Thanks heather, and sunny! to be honest, I don't feel great about it-- it's a little worrysome and stressful, but I just keep reminding myself that we are in the exact same spot as two weeks ago-- just that we *know* now.

ITA, DH is totally open to working on it together, and it was fun to have an excuse to sit down and work on something together. I feel bad for just sticking him with all this (the day to day bill stuff) for the past few years. Heather, I hope your DH comes around soon! it's a lot on one person's shoulders, especially if the decisions aren't easy ones.

My dh has absolutely come around.  He's so NOT where I would love for him to be and it's been a long, nasty road to get there (at one point, he promised for the umpteenth time he'd deal with the money and in my anger and determination to ensure he finally did, I refused to look over his shoulder even though I saw past due notices come in and our credit scores dip... not smart).  He has actually been doing it all for a while now and we've set up a new "system" where every two weeks, we have a "money date" where we go through what's come in and gone out in the last two weeks and what needs to happen in the next 2, 4 and 8-ish weeks.  We always discussed big stuff, but now we're discussing the mundane stuff, too.

Originally Posted by texmati 

I *absolutely* felt that DH knew something I didn't... well, because he did. We got married at 24 and he'd been on his own since he was 16. He had a car, apartment, insurance, his own bank account, etc. I had a job, my bank account, and a mandate frommy dad to max out all my retirement accounts since I was living at home. I learned about mortgages and taxes and retirement, since they were new to both of us, but day to day budgeting and bill paying, I left to him, since I just sort of moved in with him. 

EXACTLY our history except that I knew a ton about real estate and mortgages because it was what my family (all of them in some way, shape or form) did... so all the more did my husband think that I was the better person to handle the money.  And he was happy to hand it over.

Originally Posted by texmati 

ITA, having so many accounts is confusing. I'm not ready to ask DH to change anything, but definitely want to limit and discuss all this tranfering business before it happens.

I do agree that this year was tough... I think we could easily cut back and get things back to normal if I continued to work next year. My heart is just not in it anymore-- I've had one foot out the door for months now-- it's hard to accept it might not be possible. Or that it would come at the expense of retirement savings and paying off the mortgage early.

We def need to think about how to handle the 'savings' that are in the account now. I definitely don't want to use them for expenses that should come out of our monthly budget. That being said... it makes me feel like however much we save, I won't ever be able to sah, since sah-ing cuts our income so much.

I don't think you need to change the number of accounts you have if it works for you.  We don't have as many, but we do have two checkings and three savings (two of them are the kids).  But there's a really clear definition of what each holds and a good system for tracking transfers.  That's really all you need.

As for what staying home equates to financially, this is a HUGELY debatable thing.  You will find as many people that say "Stay home with your kids and pay off the mortgage in it's time" as you will say "Working now is the more financially responsible thing to do for your kids".  We opted for the former and I have been home with my kids.  You'd be surprised how life works itself out for you to meet your goals if you have them ever-present (literally--like on post-its on your bathroom mirror and fridge :)  ).  If you can actually make ends meet on one income, have enough savings in an emergency fund to carry you for 8-ish months if he loses his job, your monthly budget includes sinking funds for the stuff you KNOW you will have to pay (car insurance, legal renewal fees, repairs, gifts, clothing) and you can at least contribute enough to your 401k to get any matching/free money, then you're not in the worst possible shape.  I don't think you could make enough money to be miserable.  

[texmati]

As for what staying home equates to financially, this is a HUGELY debatable thing.  You will find as many people that say "Stay home with your kids and pay off the mortgage in it's time" as you will say "Working now is the more financially responsible thing to do for your kids".  We opted for the former and I have been home with my kids.  You'd be surprised how life works itself out for you to meet your goals if you have them ever-present (literally--like on post-its on your bathroom mirror and fridge :)  ).  If you can actually make ends meet on one income, have enough savings in an emergency fund to carry you for 8-ish months if he loses his job, your monthly budget includes sinking funds for the stuff you KNOW you will have to pay (car insurance, legal renewal fees, repairs, gifts, clothing) and you can at least contribute enough to your 401k to get any matching/free money, then you're not in the worst possible shape.  I don't think you could make enough money to be miserable.  

And that's the million dollar question! well... I don't make million dollars, but ykwim. We do have an EF, thank god, and now I'm working on trying to get a budget together on just dh's income.

I waffle about where I'll be most miserable all the time (at work or at home). I've been pregnant for most of DS's life, so I feel like I don't know what it's like to be physically ok and be a mom at the same time. Days like today, I'm so thankful to be able to take a 'sick day', or go into work and rest. At the same time, i feel like my family is being neglected *and* my work is being neglected. And part of me just wants to shake things up.  I want to feel proud of myself again. Hopefully we can make this work. I feel like I could do good for my family by being at home.

[texmati]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

My dh has absolutely come around.  He's so NOT where I would love for him to be and it's been a long, nasty road to get there (at one point, he promised for the umpteenth time he'd deal with the money and in my anger and determination to ensure he finally did, I refused to look over his shoulder even though I saw past due notices come in and our credit scores dip... not smart).  He has actually been doing it all for a while now and we've set up a new "system" where every two weeks, we have a "money date" where we go through what's come in and gone out in the last two weeks and what needs to happen in the next 2, 4 and 8-ish weeks.  We always discussed big stuff, but now we're discussing the mundane stuff, too.

That's wonderful that your dh has come around! It's amazing how much of personal finances are tied to emotion in a marriage. having a money 'date' sounds so constructive!

EXACTLY our history except that I knew a ton about real estate and mortgages because it was what my family (all of them in some way, shape or form) did... so all the more did my husband think that I was the better person to handle the money.  And he was happy to hand it over.

I sound very much like your husband... (I don't know what that says about me). Hopefully, dh and I can start having 'money dates'. I don't know if i'll ever feel confident completely taking over the bill paying on my own. If Dh handed it to me even today, I"m sure I'd fall flat on my face.

I don't think you need to change the number of accounts you have if it works for you.  We don't have as many, but we do have two checkings and three savings (two of them are the kids).  But there's a really clear definition of what each holds and a good system for tracking transfers.  That's really all you need.

I agree. And they aren't all bank accounts, but in quicken, all credit, retirement, savings and checking accounts show up as 'accounts'. So far dh and I have toggen to the point where we understand better what happened this past year. We haven't really gotten into discussions about what to do now and in the future. But I feel i understand so much more now about how to *practically* do a budget and track spending.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by texmati 

And that's the million dollar question! well... I don't make million dollars, but ykwim. We do have an EF, thank god, and now I'm working on trying to get a budget together on just dh's income.

I waffle about where I'll be most miserable all the time (at work or at home). I've been pregnant for most of DS's life, so I feel like I don't know what it's like to be physically ok and be a mom at the same time. Days like today, I'm so thankful to be able to take a 'sick day', or go into work and rest. At the same time, i feel like my family is being neglected *and* my work is being neglected. And part of me just wants to shake things up.  I want to feel proud of myself again. Hopefully we can make this work. I feel like I could do good for my family by being at home.

Well, I hear ya--'cause I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but sometimes being home all the time just sucks.  :(  Visit the SAHM forum once in a while.  I'm grateful and I wouldn't have it any other way, but it took me a few YEARS to adjust to life that was 180* from life as I knew it.  I never realized how much more a job review or a finished project or a solve corporate problem was "instant gratification" and/or "instant self-esteem booster" by comparison.

I guess part of the question becomes: how do you feel about your work?  Do you have a job that doesn't really require a lot of background and might be easy to be out of for a while and get right back into? Are you working as part of a career that you're nurturing, growing and love?  Is it in an industry where you COULD take a year or more off and potentially go back--albeit possibly at a lower level than you're at now?  IS there a lower level?  that's kind of the case with what I was doing.  I was managing IT projects and doing business process re-engineering in compliance-bound environments.  I haven't worked in that arena consistently for... (thinking) 8 years.  I had one 8-week stint RIGHT when I got pregnant (and had to go on disability due to the pregnancy) back in 2003, and I did a 3mo consulting assignment in 2006 as a project coordinator (a step down from what I was).  If I went back now, I would have to either be a project coordinator or possibly just a tech writer... but I would be in a spot where I could work my way up again--likely pretty quick (as in 2-ish years).  I keep up my project management certification in case that happens.  Is your situation similar at all?  Where you could feel like you had something to go back to if you didn't like being at home?

[texmati]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

Originally Posted by texmati 

And that's the million dollar question! well... I don't make million dollars, but ykwim. We do have an EF, thank god, and now I'm working on trying to get a budget together on just dh's income.

I waffle about where I'll be most miserable all the time (at work or at home). I've been pregnant for most of DS's life, so I feel like I don't know what it's like to be physically ok and be a mom at the same time. Days like today, I'm so thankful to be able to take a 'sick day', or go into work and rest. At the same time, i feel like my family is being neglected *and* my work is being neglected. And part of me just wants to shake things up.  I want to feel proud of myself again. Hopefully we can make this work. I feel like I could do good for my family by being at home.

Well, I hear ya--'cause I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but sometimes being home all the time just sucks.  :(  Visit the SAHM forum once in a while.  I'm grateful and I wouldn't have it any other way, but it took me a few YEARS to adjust to life that was 180* from life as I knew it.  I never realized how much more a job review or a finished project or a solve corporate problem was "instant gratification" and/or "instant self-esteem booster" by comparison.

I guess part of the question becomes: how do you feel about your work?  Do you have a job that doesn't really require a lot of background and might be easy to be out of for a while and get right back into? Are you working as part of a career that you're nurturing, growing and love?  Is it in an industry where you COULD take a year or more off and potentially go back--albeit possibly at a lower level than you're at now?  IS there a lower level?  that's kind of the case with what I was doing.  I was managing IT projects and doing business process re-engineering in compliance-bound environments.  I haven't worked in that arena consistently for... (thinking) 8 years.  I had one 8-week stint RIGHT when I got pregnant (and had to go on disability due to the pregnancy) back in 2003, and I did a 3mo consulting assignment in 2006 as a project coordinator (a step down from what I was).  If I went back now, I would have to either be a project coordinator or possibly just a tech writer... but I would be in a spot where I could work my way up again--likely pretty quick (as in 2-ish years).  I keep up my project management certification in case that happens.  Is your situation similar at all?  Where you could feel like you had something to go back to if you didn't like being at home?

My job is similar to IT. I'm just a tech writer. I work for a smallish company and haven't 'moved up' so to speak in the  last 6 years (I started work there out of college). Although somedays I enjoy it, and remember enjoying my projects, I really want to get away from it most of the time. The best thing about my job is flexibility-- I go in at 10 and leave at 5 every day. But really, I'm getting sick of the best thing about my job being that I can suck at it and still keep it. Jobs in my field are hard to come by, but I'm young(ish) and willing to do nearly anything. I will need to give some thought about the career/job I want regardless whether I stay at home or not. At the same time, if I *have* to work, I'd rather be here than working retail, yk?

In truth, my worst fear is that I'll suck at being a mom, and my son would be better off with a sitter. Our current nanny is so good with our son. He plays for her, he'll eat for her, and he goes to sleep without rocking for her. She is an endless well of patience while after 30 minutes of him this evening I was ready to throw in the towel. I don't know how I'll SAH with two, if I can't do one.

Edited by texmati - 12/14/10 at 9:04pm

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by texmati 

In truth, my worst fear is that I'll suck at being a mom, and my son would be better off with a sitter. Our current nanny is so good with our son. He plays for her, he'll eat for her, and he goes to sleep without rocking for her. She is an endless well of patience while after 30 minutes of him this evening I was ready to throw in the towel. I don't know how I'll SAH with two, if I can't do one.

She has him for a limited period of time each day.  It makes a MONUMENTAL difference when you know they're going home and you'll get several hours (if not days) of a break.  As a parent, former foster parent, and occasional sitter--I promise you it makes a difference.  You, on the other hand, haven't been in the position to really try out a whole bunch of things and see how he deals with different things during the day--little stupid stuff.  You'd figure it out.  HIGHLY UNLIKELY that your child could be better off with anyone else.  Ever.  My dh is a lot like you.  The ONLY difference (seriously--he is in every way, shape and form an equal opportunity parent capable of doing just about everything I can for/with the kids--which makes up for taking so long to jump on the finances! LOL!) is that I spend more time with them and therefore I know all the stupid little things to work around, or that keep things running smoothly, etc.  It frustrates him sometimes.  

And honestly, I think you have a great shot at going back.  You write.  It's do-able from home, for one.  And you can transition to other kinds of writing.  I'm actually about to embark on that now.  I actually like writing, though.  I mean, I like it now that I'm not doing it for a living (when I lost my job in 2001, I was a tech writer as an 8mo consulting assignment to carry us).

Would your job let you drop to part-time or stay on full-time but do part-time at home (the writing, of course--obviously you'd be in-office for SME interviews, meetings, etc.)?  I know the tech writing jobs are scarce at the moment: I have a friend who's a recruiter plus I'm watching dh get stuck writing documentation he'd never be doing, but they don't want to pay for a writer.  :(

[texmati]

Originally Posted by heatherdeg 

Originally Posted by texmati 

In truth, my worst fear is that I'll suck at being a mom, and my son would be better off with a sitter. Our current nanny is so good with our son. He plays for her, he'll eat for her, and he goes to sleep without rocking for her. She is an endless well of patience while after 30 minutes of him this evening I was ready to throw in the towel. I don't know how I'll SAH with two, if I can't do one.

She has him for a limited period of time each day.  It makes a MONUMENTAL difference when you know they're going home and you'll get several hours (if not days) of a break.  As a parent, former foster parent, and occasional sitter--I promise you it makes a difference.  You, on the other hand, haven't been in the position to really try out a whole bunch of things and see how he deals with different things during the day--little stupid stuff.  You'd figure it out.  HIGHLY UNLIKELY that your child could be better off with anyone else.  Ever.  My dh is a lot like you.  The ONLY difference (seriously--he is in every way, shape and form an equal opportunity parent capable of doing just about everything I can for/with the kids--which makes up for taking so long to jump on the finances! LOL!) is that I spend more time with them and therefore I know all the stupid little things to work around, or that keep things running smoothly, etc.  It frustrates him sometimes.  

And honestly, I think you have a great shot at going back.  You write.  It's do-able from home, for one.  And you can transition to other kinds of writing.  I'm actually about to embark on that now.  I actually like writing, though.  I mean, I like it now that I'm not doing it for a living (when I lost my job in 2001, I was a tech writer as an 8mo consulting assignment to carry us).

Would your job let you drop to part-time or stay on full-time but do part-time at home (the writing, of course--obviously you'd be in-office for SME interviews, meetings, etc.)?  I know the tech writing jobs are scarce at the moment: I have a friend who's a recruiter plus I'm watching dh get stuck writing documentation he'd never be doing, but they don't want to pay for a writer.  :(

I sure hope you are right... she's been a sahm for 20 years, so she has a lot of experience with kids. My DH insists it's all learned/learnable. I've already asked about working from home part time, but no-go. I was actually shocked that I was denied. I believe it would be completely doable. Before I quit, I'll ask about going part time, but truthfully I don't think they'll go for it.

I know this sounds awful, but I just simply don't have much experience being at home *alone* with ds. My husband works from home, and does 2 hours on his own with ds on weekdays. Also, it took me 3 mos to recover from my section, and then I was pregnant again at 7 months. I feel like I've been 'ill' my son's whole life. I never got the hang of being really confident in taking care of him.  I know it sounds like an ideal situation with DH wah, but I still feel that we are drowning.

Dh's take is to try it out for more than just a week, at a time when I'm not puking and in pain, and if it doesnt work out, I'll find another job. I don' t know how he's so confident.

Not that any of this has to do with money... but i guess, in some ways, it does.