When other people discipline your kids in front of you

[waitingmama]

What do you do when other people correct your children right in front of you and you do not think it is called for?

Here's the situation that prompted the question. A friend, who has a kid about the age of my oldest, is prone to telling my DD what she can't/shouldn't do when I'm standing right there. For example, at our house when my daughter is shouting she'll tell her to keep her voice down. I personally don't care if kids are making noise within reason. When DD was getting aggravated about sharing toys she stepped in and tried to lecture her about sharing (again, at our house with me standing there). This was particularly annoying because at her house all the toys her kids want to play with in the moment are "special" and off limits for my daughter. She does not watch her own kids carefully enough to stop them from grabbing toys, hitting, even breaking things.

My parenting philosophy is a lot more hands off than hers; I think even little kids can work out most of their problems without parents interjecting. If I don't like what someone else's child is doing and think something needs to be done, I address the parent as friendly as possible (i.e. "It is getting kind of loud in here. Think we should all tell the kids to quiet down?")

I've never said anything in the moment because it makes me angry and I don't want to be hateful. I've decided against getting together with her again since my daughter always ends fairly miserable when playing with her kids, which isn't like her. But should I encounter her or a similar sort again, any suggestions on what to do?

(Sorry if this isn't the best subforum for this post; I'm open to suggestions on where to move it if that is the case!)

[HappyMommy2]

Wow, I could have written this post about my neighbor!!!  I  will definitely be watching for advice.

They have the same issues where their kids don't want to share, so they fuss, and the mom puts the toy away as "special".  For everything my kids touch.  So annoying.

Sadly, I have seriously reduced contact. 

I have noticed that their kids play better at my house, so I try to steer them here. 

I also do short play dates, like 1/2 hour or 1 hour max.  Morning playdates are more successful, so we get together at 10:30 on a weekend day "for a little while before lunch".  That gives us an escape plan .... "kids getting hungry, gotta go, bye". 

I also send text messages for play dates, since they get missed half the time.  It cuts in half the time we actually have to connect, and I don't have to wonder about them wondering.  I know that is kind of lame, but we have to live next door for a long time!!

My kids LOVE the idea of playing with them.  But usually it is no fun in reality.  The older one tries to dictate that everyone watch him play, and not touch the giant batman house because my kids aren't putting the guys in the right place.  Or watch him play soccer, but he gets 9 turns and then my kid will get 9 turns.  Well of course, kids never get to 9, let alone 18!!  He wants to dictate all random rules that result in nobody else touching or doing anything. It is really bizarre.  I need to figure out some more "tools" for my son to use in order to make it fair.

When they try to discipline my child, I just jump in and scoop them up and take over.  I will not let my kids over there without me or my DH.  I can see this becoming a bigger and bigger issue as the kids get older, and with my hubby not totally on board.  He hates it too, but his way of dealing with it is to discipline their kids too.

[no5no5]

The only time I've told another child what to do is when he or she has been physically violent with my DD or with another child.  Well, and one time when the neighbor kids all ganged up on another kid and told him he (alone, out of the dozen kids present) could not get on the merry-go-round. 

I expect the same respect from my friends and the parents of DD's friends, and I get it.  It probably helps that DD shares well, is generally quiet, etc.  When we have had a problem, I've said something like, "Oh, we don't make DD share."  Or, "She is allowed to take her shoes off."  I say it in a firm tone of voice but with a smile on my face, and if anyone has ever been offended I haven't noticed.    It's exactly the same thing I do if someone tries to get her to do something she isn't allowed; "Sorry, boys, I don't want her to kiss anyone on the mouth until she's older."  Or, "We don't eat meat in our family." 

[phathui5]

I don't mind friends telling my children what to do, though the people we hang out with tend to know what my rules for my children are and don't usually overstep by telling them not to do things I would let them do.

For example, we were at a friend's house a few weeks ago and I heard another mom telling my seven year old dd to apoligize to one of the kids for something. Some people would be offended, but I was comfortable with the way the lady told dd to do it. She didn't yell at her, just said, "Go say sorry to ____ for..." It may not been what I would have done, but I think it's ok for dd to have other trusted adults give her directions.

In a sense, it fits into the "tribe" that I want for my family.

[mamazee]

It sounds like what is particularly difficult for you is that she has higher expectations of your children than her own.  I don't mind other parents telling my kids to be polite to theirs or that kind of thing when I'm there, because it's their right to make sure their children are treated properly.  But I wouldn't like it if they told my kids to share but didn't make their own kids share.  I would say something about that.  If it causes you to have fewer playdates with them, I don't think that would be much of a loss.

[pianojazzgirl]

phathui5 - I have a similar relationship with my friends.  We have a few friends that we are very close with, and sometimes we will discipline each others' kids in small matters.  We're all on the same page about it though, which it sounds like the OP and her friend are not.

I actually clicked this topic (I saw it from the main page), because I ran into this situation last night, but it was ME that disciplined the other person's kid.  It just came out of my mouth automatically.  My friend's 2 yr old boy was frustrated about something and so he turned around and pulled the cat's tail really hard.  I guess I spend so much time around little kids that the words just came shooting out of my mouth "I know your frustrated but you can't pull the cat's tail".  I apologized to his mom right afterwards (I wasn't sure how she felt about me having said that, and I felt bad for possibly overstepping).  Not sure how this relates to the OP.  I guess it's just to say that sometimes we make mistakes and it's possible another mama might discipline your kiddo out of an automatic reaction, but then feel remorse afterwards.  I guess it doesn't sound like the case in the OP, but it's a possible scenario.

[Marsupialmom]

In this situation this person would annoy me.

I do typically respect when a person tells my kids they are loud.  We have different thresholds.  If someone says something, I will find ways to keep it down. 

But when you look at the big picture I don't find her behavior acceptable on ways to correct other people's children.  There are times and places -- like the way one poster did with the cat's tail.  Or saying we have a rule you don't jump on beds please get down.  

[sunrainlife]

Omigosh...I knew I would find comfort here.  This thread is sooo relevant to my situation too.  We had a slight cousin-conflict over Thanksgiving, with my 3.5 yr old (daycare kid) being a little rougher/louder/grabby-er than his more gentle 2.5 yr old (stay at home mom) cousin. 

Reiterating what previous posters have said, its obvious that firm discipline by other adults is welcomed if my kid purposely hits, or puts other kids in harms way.  That being said, my philosophy is that 3 yr old boys are going to be a little rough with each other now and then, and I'm not going to make a big deal about every minor toddler scuffle that may occur. 

I think a key here is location.  I will restrain myself more in someone else's house (and expect the same vice versa).  In our case, we were on neutral territory (grandmas house). 

In response to the original post, I think moms need to just be aware of the intangible *vibe* of the entire situation.  Its just like a romantic relationship.  If you have to agonize over it, or try too hard, maybe its just not a fit, and you should move on to other play-dates.  You want to spend time with (and your kids to spend time with) people you enjoy and are comfortable around.  It shouldn't be so much work.

[sunrainlife]

Great point Marsupialmom,

Trying to be aware of everyone's "thresholds"....(kids and moms).

[waitingmama]

Thank you all for your responses, it helps me have a better perspective on things.

I am fine with a friend's reprimand if I am not paying attention, if someone (or some cat!) is in danger, or if my child is breaking one of their rules at their house. Like phathui5, I also don't mind a close friend doing so in really any circumstance either because those are trusted adults, as you said. We've moved this year, however, so all those friends are now states away. Perhaps this is part of the frustration, too-- with our group of friends before we all looked out for the good of all the kids and were careful of boundaries. If she were a closer friend I could also ask her to please let me know if I need to reign in my kid rather than taking it upon herself.

no5no5, I like your response about not making DD share. If I said that to this lady I think her head would pop off with surprise, but I'll be sure to try it. And HappyMommy2 your avoidance tactics are worth implementing in the near future. Thanks!

[Lillitu]

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

I actually clicked this topic (I saw it from the main page), because I ran into this situation last night, but it was ME that disciplined the other person's kid.  It just came out of my mouth automatically.  My friend's 2 yr old boy was frustrated about something and so he turned around and pulled the cat's tail really hard.  I guess I spend so much time around little kids that the words just came shooting out of my mouth "I know your frustrated but you can't pull the cat's tail".  I apologized to his mom right afterwards (I wasn't sure how she felt about me having said that, and I felt bad for possibly overstepping). 

Wow, I would have no qualms about saying that and would probably NOT apologize to the mom at all, especially if it appeared that she was not going to say anything. I believe that children are not "ours" (in the proprietary sense of the word), and that if a child does something serious (like harming another person, animal, etc) that it is my duty as a compassionate person to cultivate empathy and fairness in a child with a word or two about how that is not OK.

I have been lucky so far- all the parents that I know and have playgroup, etc with have had similar parenting philosophies as mine. When they correct my child for not sharing, being aggressive, etc (or when I correct theirs), it has not been an issue.

It seems like the OP's main issue here is the double standard- the friend doesn't correct their own children for the same issue. I personally that means that you get to have a fun talk with that parent, if you want anything to be resolved to your satisfaction.

[LessTraveledBy]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom 

In this situation this person would annoy me.

I do typically respect when a person tells my kids they are loud.  We have different thresholds.  If someone says something, I will find ways to keep it down. 

But when you look at the big picture I don't find her behavior acceptable on ways to correct other people's children.  There are times and places -- like the way one poster did with the cat's tail.  Or saying we have a rule you don't jump on beds please get down.  

Yes, this!

You know.. Some people have a very hard time noises and may not be a able to hold a conversation with any loud talking in the background. Some may even start to feel anxious. Something like this may explain a bit of the friend's reaction. She may have wanted to say something for along time, hoping you would step in, and just could not hold it in any longer. TBH, even if you are ok with loudness, I think it is polite not to be loud when there are guests over, unless it is her child that is being loudest. HOWEVER, I do think she should explain her wishes, or whatever, to you, not to your child.

However, the rest of what you said would really annoy me. (The toys being but away but, apparently, visible, etc. If something should not be played with, it needs to be put out of sight before the playdate!) However, my guess would be that this friends feels like you are too hands off. It is normally the parents of the "strong" kids (mentally and/or physically) who are ok with the kids figuring out their own solutions. Oftentimes, IMO, this can end up with one kid basically being bullied. With a daughter who was very sensitive (others' emotions were a big deal to her and she was a bit too good at putting herself in the shoes of someone else) I would be there, always. Otherwise the other kid could get away with a lot, because dd would not want to hurt the other kids feelings. (Luckily, there is a tiger inside of dd, also, but I a not comfortable with how much she often would accept from the other kid. She would often walk away instead of dishing it back.) So, yeah, we easily come to form our views based on what our own kids are like.

We have had some of these issues with grandparents. When they are demanding something I do not find important, I make it clear that it is out of respect for e.g. grandma, that a certain behavior needs to stop. Something like "Grandma does not like it when you x, so please stop." This makes it clear that I do not mind that behavior and don't think it is wrong, but we need to respect grandma's wishes. (Grandma probably does not like this... Tough, she is an adult, so she can deal...) There are certain things that to our American Grandma are disgusting and terrible behavior and to me (a Northern European) are quite ok. I then simply ask dd not to do these things in front of grandma. (E.g., as a kid with allergies, I know that sometimes the only thing that seemed to help was getting my finger wet and then sticking it in my nose. My dd does the exact same thing. Grandma thinks this is gross, a sign of terrible manners and should never happen. I know exactly why dd wants to do this and am happy she has found something that brings some relief. I find it fine, just not ok in front of grandma, as Grandma seems to suffer psychological damage if she has to see it.) ;)

Anyway, I think in your situation I probably would not get together with this person much. If she is a close friend, maybe you can meet her for a cup of coffee or something, without the children. If not.... well.... You don't need to get together just because someone has a child around the same age.

[sublimeliving]

The act of not saying anything to your friend, was unfortunately, taken as you giving her permission to discipline your child. It is never OK to overstep the boundaries of parental disciplinarian, unless serious harm to a child could result. Obviously sharing and speaking loudly doesn't seriously hurt anyone. My two cents would be to gently step in when she does this next time. Say something like, "Oh, she's my child, I'll handle it." This may take a few times, but she'll get the hint. : )

[MrsH]

How aggravating, I hate it too when other parents speak to (or about) my kids in disciplinarian ways!  Just last night we were with cousins we only see once a year.  Two 8 year old girls (one my daughter), two 5 year old boys, my 4 year old son, and a couple smaller kids.  They all played tag for awhile, then decided they wanted to play something different but failed to help my son understand this.  He thought they were still playing tag.  The kids' solution was to completely ignore him.  Completely.  So he got a little rougher and tagged a little harder.  I didn't think it was in the realm of hitting but perhaps that's because I saw the lead-up (I've learned to be very observant with these cousins!).  The 8 year old (not my daughter) cried to her mother about being hit, so mom's response was "well, you're both being hit, just go sit over there and draw.  Don't play with him anymore."  Guess what my son wanted to do... to draw.  More ignoring.  It broke my heart to see him trying for 4 minutes to get their attention, in positive, use-your-words types of ways.  At that point I stepped in and we played together for a while, re-enacting the scenario with a few matchbox cars and working through the problem together.  It's just so frustrating, clearly this mom has a different way of handling situations than I do!

In looking back on it I think it would've been ok for me to say, to the other mom, "I think he still wanted to play tag and tagged your daughter a little too roughly.  What do you think would be a good activity that could include all the children?" (or: "how about we set all the children up with coloring?").  If it had been at my house I'd have stated our house rule: "in our family, whoever wants to play can play.  Who wants to color?"  In either scenario I'd also connect with my son, as we do frequently, about more effective ways to interact with other kids. 

[Momsteader]

Well, unfortunately, she'll probably not change. You could do things where they aren't at your place and you have the ability to leave when you'd like, or not play with them any more. You could also confront her about it, but be prepared to lose the friendship over it as most people can't take that kind of feedback.

I have a my house/my rules kind of attitude about having other children over. If we're at my house, and your child is doing something inappropriate in our house, and you haven't noticed/don't care, I will say something. "Hey Max, pushing people isn't okay. Someone could get hurt." It goes the other way too, if someone is being really strict with their children at my place, I will let the mom know privately that I am okay with x and she doesn't need to worry, it's okay for them to do x here. "Sue, I don't care if they are loud. They're having fun, and it's too cold to play outside anyway!"  I feel like kids have complete freedom at my house within easy parameters and I don't interfere very often once they're playing. Everyone always wants to play at my house, and parents say their kids behave so well at my house, so must be doing something right.

I have a high tolerance for noise and chaos and I don't mind if the kids are having fun. Basically as long as they are respectful, inclusive with their play, and not destroying things--have at it! I have been known to step in other places if the above is happening with group play including my children. At the park, "Sue, it looks like the bigger kids are being too rough with your Mary. I'll be right back." Give her a moment to say something, and go. It would be along the lines of...."Hey guys remember Mary is 5 and isn't as big as you are. So be gentle." But, if I was at your house, and you didn't mind the noise, I'd not discipline your kiddo for it! I think that crosses the line! If you were at her place, and she doesn't like the noise, I'd prep the kiddos to remind them that Sue doesn't like yelling, and I'd remind them while I was there. Reminding that we need to be respectful of others homes/rules even if they are different at our house. If it didn't work....we'd not go back!

[waitingmama]

    Quote:

Originally Posted by LessTraveledBy

...However, my guess would be that this friends feels like you are too hands off. It is normally the parents of the "strong" kids (mentally and/or physically) who are ok with the kids figuring out their own solutions. Oftentimes, IMO, this can end up with one kid basically being bullied....

I don't think it is necessarily the case that parents with stronger kids are the ones to let them play as they will (good parents with wild kids are usually the ones forced to ref what's going on in my experience), and that is not the situation here. My daughter's "friend" in this case is very tall and the friend's younger sibling is the toy smashing type-- my daughter is very petite and while not mild mannered doesn't throw things, etc. Plus there are two of them! So I wouldn't say the odds, so to speak, are slated in her favor.

As many people here mentioned the double standard is the key. This woman is prone to talk about her children as "spirited" and "sharp" while other people's kids doing the same exact thing are aggressive and rude. It is hard as a mother to gain perspective sometimes, but I always try to remember that while my kids are at the center of my world they are not the center of everyone else's (though I believe all children deserve the same degree of respect from everyone all the time). To have her comments to my kid come out of this lack of perspective just makes it all the worse. Sadly she is on too much of an ego trip to make contact with her worth maintaining and things have since dissolved.

Thank you for all the comments because I've lived long enough to know the situation will arise again. Hopefully next time I'll be better prepared to deal with it.

[peaceful_mama]

I have a few simple rules when my kids get together with others, and I don't care if other people 'enforce' these things...also at other peoples' homes, I tell my kids they need to listen to the adult whose home it is.

And simply enough, if I don't like someone's way of interacting, rules, etc. I minimize contact.

Here is a HUGE one.....if my children bring a toy of theirs into a group play situation, I expect them to share it.  With EVERYONE who is old enough to play with the item appropriately.  (I'm talking in a playgroup where we know the kids)

They have the option to leave the item home, or in our vehicle.  They can take it back to our vehicle or put it out of play--for EVERYONE--at any time.

It is NOT an option to leave out 1-2 kids without giving them a chance.  (now if these kids have played with their stuff in the past, and not done well, stuff gets lost/broken, well, we'd talk about that)

  Yes, the item is their property, they do have the right to say who can use it or that nobody can use it.  But when you are in a group and you're leaving one person out, even if it's because you don't  know them and "they might break it"......well, it's bully-behavior in the making and I would want my kids to find something to do where they are comfortable including everyone who wants to play.  (I'm talking where it's a small group of kids and one child is being totally left out and upset by it.)

But, I think if it were my child doing it I woudl want to be the one to handle it, so what I would do is address the parent of the kid whose toy it is.  And well, if it's a problem....I guess that's how you find out who your friends are, because *I* would not consider it a problem if someone came to me and said "Hey, Emily is sad because Sophie brought her new markers and is only letting her brother and Janie use them."  (actually I would probably be *happy* that she's ALLOWING her brother.....LOL)