or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

unschooling food - Page 2

post #21 of 65

I think it is great to allow kids to choose their own foods, own quantities, and even own times to eat.   As a parent, at every age, I would make sure the available choices were all within the range in which I felt my child was mature enough to make healthy choices.  This means - breastmilk only for a certain period of time, then expanding to a few more options, and gradually expanding further.  Processed foods, sugar, etc I introduced much later - maybe age 4 or 5 for most things.    Having done that, I did not need to regulate a food once it was introduced.  But I regulated when to introduce it.  It made me unpopular with folks who said I was "depriving" her if I didn't let her eat cake and candy when she was 3 but I did not mind those comments.  (Would I have told them they were depriving their kids because they were already weaned?  No, I don't think so.  Anyway.)

I also share my views on foods and have no problem saying one food is more healthy than another, or explaining what different foods offer us - sometimes on RU discussion lists you will hear people loudly object to this "value system." 

post #22 of 65

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet68 View Post


I get really riled up when people try to substitute the word "unparent" for RU.

 

I've done it, myself. When the only exposure you get to RU looks a lot like unparenting, you tend to go by your first impression and make generalizations.

 

Now I sort of see it in reverse. It appears to me that some homeschoolers like to substitute the term "RU" for unparenting. That gives RU a bad name.

post #23 of 65

The OP's debate with people on a list is built, IMNSHO, on a house of cards.

 

It is a fallacy to to think we can expose our kids to everything. All of us have limited resources - be it time, money, space, etc.

 

Your children are not lacking joy because they are not eating Pringles.  Are my children lacking joy because I have not brought haggis into the house?  Own a pony?    All adults make choices on what to bring into the house - I do not have all the channels in the world, 50 cats or wall to wall bookcases.

 

In general, I think buying Pringles and refusing to let your kids eat them is not RU, I think going out to a party where Pringles are served but not letting them try a few is not RU.   I think not buying them because no one is interested them is RU.

 

I will say I do let my kids have some say in the grocery list - but that say is in proportion to our resources.  Example - my middle child likes Doritos.  I buy her some.  I do not only buy Doritos when I go to the store - I want other groceries too!  Nor do I have the space to store endless bags of Doritos.  I am not willing to run out to the store (gas, time, money) every time she wants Doritos.  If she wants to spend all her money and time on securing Doritos she can  -  so far she hasn't, lol.  But she does not get to dictate how I spend our or my resources. 

 

 

post #24 of 65

We have a Yahoo group dedicated to discussing "Unschooling Nutrition". There are some 500 unschooling families there discussing this topic.

 

Pat

post #25 of 65

Exactly!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

I want to add that unparenting and unschooling are not the same thing, in that, you can send your child to school even, but refuse to parent your child at home and you are still an unparenter. Long ago, the only unparenters were generally drug addicts and such, people who just could not handle parenting because they were too strung out and such. Now days, though, I see a lot of people who just either do not know how to parent so they don't try, or they think that being their child's friend is better being a parent (although, they usually regret this by the time the child is 16).


Yes, there are people who send their kids to school and unparent. There are also unschoolers who unparent. That doesn't mean all unschooling is unparenting. It means that dysfunction and crappy parenting exists across the board.

post #26 of 65

OP, do you aspire to be RU?  Do you truly believe that depriving you lo's of Pringles and Kool-Aid is denying them joy?  It seems to me that your heart and instincts might be leading you elsewhere. 

 

Although it may come across on some of those lists that to have embraced RU is to have reached some sort of ultra-evolved mindset in the homeschooling world, I for one believe there is validity in trusting yourself as the parent to be making decisions on behalf of your child, and that these decisions are not automatically about the need to control.  You can certainly evaluate decisions you make sure they are not knee-jerk, but you know what you know.

 

I would say to joyfully provide that paleo diet to you family.  If you encounter pringles and kool-aid which you will inevitably will, let your kids have it if they want.  Talk to them about food and all you know, why you do what you do.  Allow them to choose, but that does not mean you have to stock your house with junk or always provide them with it whenever they want.  I would also say you do not *ever* need to expose them purposely to junk food, it will just happen at some point.

 

To me, this journey has been about learning to trust myself as much as it has been about trusting my kids. 

post #27 of 65


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeresse View Post

To me, this journey has been about learning to trust myself as much as it has been about trusting my kids.

 

very well said.   Tigeresse, I have admired your candid posts on various issues, and this line just reminded me of how much I had learned from you in earlier discussions as well.  SO just popping in to mention that wave.gif

post #28 of 65

I'm not an unschooler, but I would think that there's a reasonable balance for every family. I wouldn't have time nor money to buy every person in the household exactly what they'd like to eat every second of every day. I would think having pringles and koolaid in the house or having the potential for it at a party or event and still forbidding it would be incompatible with the unschooling philosophy. But not having it in the house until it's requested and even then having it as some portion of the menu and food budget would make sense.

 

I allot funds for 1 snack food thing in the weekly food budget, like goldfish, pretzels, pirate booty. The kids need to negotiate to agree on which to have, and when it's gone, it's gone, and there's no more til the next shopping trip. I don't think these are necessarily incompatible with unschooling, since they're 6 and under and don't understand the necessity of a food budget. But I often suspect when I read unschooling posts, that they have more money and time to spend than I do on extra food and toys.

post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheery View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeresse View Post

To me, this journey has been about learning to trust myself as much as it has been about trusting my kids.

 

very well said.   Tigeresse, I have admired your candid posts on various issues, and this line just reminded me of how much I had learned from you in earlier discussions as well.  SO just popping in to mention that wave.gif

 

Why, thank you!  love.gif
 

post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

They are not talking about unschooling, they are talking about unparenting.

 

Sometimes, with these unparenters, I wonder if their child wanted to walk across a busy high way or jump off a cliff or rob a bank, if they would just sit back and let them. Seriously.



Yeah, this.  Seriously, are there NO boundaries at all?

post #31 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
 I don't care for extremism, no matter which way the pendulum is swinging.


 

yeahthat.gif

post #32 of 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaHappy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

 

Sometimes, with these unparenters, I wonder if their child wanted to walk across a busy high way or jump off a cliff or rob a bank, if they would just sit back and let them. Seriously.

Yeah, this.  Seriously, are there NO boundaries at all?

 

Now I think you are being unduly dismissive.  I do not consider myself RU, and don't even enjoy discussions solely focused on RU, but I do appreciate some of the ideas that the RU community articulates, and perhaps compared to the average I would be considered extreme.

 

The example of holding a child back from crossing a busy street, and using force if required to do so, seems to be a favourite means to justify all other manner of physical and/or verbal force to regulate children's behavoir, or "make them behave."    While I personally was not in favour of separating the Unschooling Board from the overall Learning at Home and Beyond Board, and would further resist subdivision into types of unschooling, I think that one can generally say that parents who embrace unschooling do not believe that we have to "make" our children learn, whether it is academics or behaviour.  There is a very wide spectrum of approaches, and also a lot of interplay and conflict between theory and practice, but that is part of our learning journey as well.

post #33 of 65
Quote:


Yeah, this.  Seriously, are there NO boundaries at all?


 

Until recently, I would have dismissed your response as sardonic.  This is no longer the case.  I have seen RU taken to the extreme.  I won't go into details, because I do not want to offend any Radical Unschoolers on this board.  I'd hate for someone to think I was making a generalization.  Hmmm.... how can I say this?  Well, there definitely is that line in the sand, beyond which I can no longer accept that something is healthy or safe (for all involved).  These were isolated events, though.  Most unschooling families I know are fun and engaging, with a more laid back approach to life than I can muster.

post #34 of 65


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheery View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by MamaHappy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa1970 View Post

 

Sometimes, with these unparenters, I wonder if their child wanted to walk across a busy high way or jump off a cliff or rob a bank, if they would just sit back and let them. Seriously.

Yeah, this.  Seriously, are there NO boundaries at all?

 

Now I think you are being unduly dismissive.  I do not consider myself RU, and don't even enjoy discussions solely focused on RU, but I do appreciate some of the ideas that the RU community articulates, and perhaps compared to the average I would be considered extreme.

 

The example of holding a child back from crossing a busy street, and using force if required to do so, seems to be a favourite means to justify all other manner of physical and/or verbal force to regulate children's behavoir, or "make them behave."    While I personally was not in favour of separating the Unschooling Board from the overall Learning at Home and Beyond Board, and would further resist subdivision into types of unschooling, I think that one can generally say that parents who embrace unschooling do not believe that we have to "make" our children learn, whether it is academics or behaviour.  There is a very wide spectrum of approaches, and also a lot of interplay and conflict between theory and practice, but that is part of our learning journey as well.



And I guess there, in the bolded, is exactly what I think is the point in this discussion. To me the food my child has is a health issue, and very, very important. I've struggled with health issues for most of my life due to not eating well, and I grew up eating whatever I wanted (yes, my parents did care what I ate, but the only thing my mother was concerned with was fat, so as long as low-fat it was fine. And even if it wasn't I could eat it anyway, she'd just be disappointed with me for being so weak). I really want to give my daughter a start with a healthy body. As she gets older she'll make her own choices,

 

What I mean is, for me at the moment, at least, this is a food and health issue, not a learning issue so much. I'm hoping that by modeling healthy eating she'll just pick it up, and find it normal. We'll see how that goes as she gets older. Any learning here would be as she's asking for it.

 

We don't keep sweet stuff or stuff with a long additive list at home at all, and none of us eat it. And we usually just eat the same, DD and I. But when we go out she has her own foods, until recently partly because she would be more likely to eat it if it was familiar, and partly because we preferred that she had organic food free from any extra additives. But 6 months ago she developed allergies, so now she usually has to have her own food (and I do too, as she reacts through my milk). She doesn't really know what she is allergic to (but will ask "am I allergic to this?"), so at this point she eats only what's in her lunch box or what she knows that we've brought (or something I've pointed out that she can eat, a lot of summer buffés at the moment).

post #35 of 65

There is a difference between allowing children the room to make their own decisions and actually encouraging them to do things that are dangerous or unhealthy.

 

We never kept a bunch of junk in the house, both for health reasons and for financial reasons, preferring our food budget to go towards real food. Now that my boys are older and have their own money, they buy (what I consider to be) a terrible amount of junk for themselves. Most of the teenagers I have known seem to believe they are invincible. They can't imagine ever coming down with diabetes or blocked arteries. My boys are slim and generally healthy, and don't see junk food as a problem. Oh, well.

 

However, that is a decision they have made ON THEIR OWN. I did not provide them with cases of soda and boxes of Ding-Dongs and say "have at it." I would no more do that than I would hand them a carton of cigarettes or a pan of pot-brownies.

post #36 of 65

 

Quote:
However, that is a decision they have made ON THEIR OWN. I did not provide them with cases of soda and boxes of Ding-Dongs and say "have at it." I would no more do that than I would hand them a carton of cigarettes or a pan of pot-brownies.

Right. On their own. Because at some point the parental power or control over the situation is going to be minimal or nada, as it should be. I think many so called "RU" parents come at this food thing with that in mind. Kids are people too, and people are going to make up their own minds about things. As caring parents we share and model what we believe is good and healthy, and in that we hope to pass on those views and tools to the kids. Some parents feel they do that by forbidding and withholding sugar and processed foods, and others (the camp I am in) prefer to approach it openly and let the chips (bad pun lol) fall where they may.

 

And of course parental personalities are going to play a role here too. Like my kids were way more likely to be exposed to pot brownies than to say, continual access to Kentucky Fried Chicken, because I am personally much more comfortable with the former. mischievous.gif

 

post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post

 

Right. On their own. Because at some point the parental power or control over the situation is going to be minimal or nada, as it should be. I think many so called "RU" parents come at this food thing with that in mind. Kids are people too, and people are going to make up their own minds about things. As caring parents we share and model what we believe is good and healthy, and in that we hope to pass on those views and tools to the kids. Some parents feel they do that by forbidding and withholding sugar and processed foods, and others (the camp I am in) prefer to approach it openly and let the chips (bad pun lol) fall where they may.

 

And of course parental personalities are going to play a role here too. Like my kids were way more likely to be exposed to pot brownies than to say, continual access to Kentucky Fried Chicken, because I am personally much more comfortable with the former. mischievous.gif

 


See, I think when you say "forbidding and withholding," you paint things in a very negative light. There is a difference between forbidding and withholding and just simply not providing. I don't feel that a parent is doing something bad by not buying Doritos on a regular basis, especially if it isn't in the budget. Nobody is going to die from lack of junk food.

 

There is also a difference between occasional "exposure" and "continual access." Would you (or do you) give your kids continual access to pot brownies? Like, several times a month?

 

I have never forbid my kids to eat junk, but it doesn't make up a whole lot of what we buy for the house. I simply don't have money to waste on routine stocking up of crap food. We buy chips or ice cream every so often, and nobody is allowed to hog it. That's the only rule. 

post #38 of 65

To me the food my child has is a health issue, and very, very important. 


We limit sugar, additives, refined foods. I recall an NPR issue saying something about the foods we eat as a young child hard-wire our brains for the foods we'll eat as adults. I know my brain is hard-wired to all the junk we ate as kids. I'm not sure what my mom was thinking letting us eat 5 or 6 servings of sugar and junk a day.

 

I have 3 main gripes about how I was raised 1. Family issues, 2. Unlimited crap food. 3. Unlimited television. Her unwillingness to control food and TV caused HUGE problems. I struggle to this day because of how much junk we were allowed to eat.

 

I will not subject my children to a lifelong battle with unhealthy food. Which translates into I will not subject my children to a lifelong battle with unhealth. They are experiencing life with healthy nutrition and some fun foods thrown if for, well...fun. Their brains are being wired to a healthy diet. As they get older they will choose if they want to eat more junk. That doesn't mean they are subjected to lots of junk now when they are so little and dependent.

 

Then there's the matter of brain development. The first 3 years are so important on brain building. Nutrition is a big part of that. Malnourished children pay the price for the rest of their lives.

 

Pringles and koolaid for an 8 month old? Call CPS (only slightly joking.) If that is a HUGE part of that child's diet that baby is already malnourished. That is child abuse.

post #39 of 65


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post

 

Quote:
However, that is a decision they have made ON THEIR OWN. I did not provide them with cases of soda and boxes of Ding-Dongs and say "have at it." I would no more do that than I would hand them a carton of cigarettes or a pan of pot-brownies.

Right. On their own. Because at some point the parental power or control over the situation is going to be minimal or nada, as it should be. I think many so called "RU" parents come at this food thing with that in mind. Kids are people too, and people are going to make up their own minds about things. As caring parents we share and model what we believe is good and healthy, and in that we hope to pass on those views and tools to the kids. Some parents feel they do that by forbidding and withholding sugar and processed foods, and others (the camp I am in) prefer to approach it openly and let the chips (bad pun lol) fall where they may.

 

And of course parental personalities are going to play a role here too. Like my kids were way more likely to be exposed to pot brownies than to say, continual access to Kentucky Fried Chicken, because I am personally much more comfortable with the former. mischievous.gif

 

 

I think there is plenty of room for variation between "forbidding and withholding" and "approaching it openly".  And all of these variations can come from a place of love, respect and nurturing, not necessarily from a need to control.

 

I agree kids are people.  They are little people who require the care of adults to provide them with all they need so they can do their work of learning, playing, growing.  Their minds do not work the same as adults and therefore they require a different set of responsibilities than an adult would have.  IMO they need us to provide a guiding light and to "see the big picture" for them so they can go about doing what kids do feeling safe, secure, and nurtured.  Certainly the long term goals include kids making more and more of their own choices, and that's where the savvy, in-tune parent will rely on wisdom gleaned from years of life experience, on deep knowing of their own child, and on self-trust as well as trust of the child.  JMHO.

post #40 of 65

I think it is absolutely fine to limit what you bring into the house (although older kids should be allowed to spend their money their way)

I think it is absolutely fine to limit or have no junk for babies  - an 8 month is not going to know they are eating differently form everyone else at a party anyways.

 

I think it is wrong, in general,  to limit food for older kids outside of the house.

 

I have met a few kids who are not allowed junk food over the years and it is always a huge issue.  The hyper focus on "thou shalll not eat junk" becomes huge in the minds of the kids and the parents and allows junk food far too much space in the mind. 

 

I have been a Girl guide leader for several year.  For 2 years we had a girl who was not allowed junk food - she would literally cry because other kids were having cookies but her mom said no.  My son had a friend a number of years ago who was not allowed sugar. He was not diabetic or anything - the mom simply hated sugar.  I have never seen a child clamour for sugary foods the way that one did.  

 

Junk food exists - and it is better out kids learn how to deal with it in moderation, rather than have it become forbidden fruit.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Unschooling