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# The real risk of coats in car seats--could someone give me resources. - Page 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by an_auroraÂ

Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoSÂ

Ninetales- It may be a risk, but if the risk is 1 in 1, 000,000,000 then...how real is the risk?

In 2009, 76,309 people died in car crashes. Â If the population of the US is 307,006,550Â (as of July 2009), roughly 2.5% of the population of the US die in car crashes every year.

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More specifically,Â Â 1538 were under the age of 16. Â There are 74,000,000 children under the age of 16 in the US. Â Of the children under the age of 16 that died in car crashes in 2009, 909 were fully or partially ejected. Â So of the children that died in the US in car crashes, 59% were ejected (whether fully or partially). Â Â The odds are low, but definitely not one in a billion.

Um. Not a mathematician here but I think you are off by a couple of orders of magnitude. 2.5% of 300 million is 7 million NOT 76,000...my guess would be more like .025% Just saying.

Also, the odds of having a kid killed in car crash is .002% and the odds that that death is due to ejection? .00122%

1 in a Million is .0001%. So I guess we are really looking at a risk of 1 in several hundred thousand...right?
Jenne

ETA: I've been looking for the number of children who die each year from pneumonia/flu (both for personal decision making reasons and because I think it is germaine to this discussion) and think it would be interesting to see the comparison between that and ejection risk. But I haven't found any good numbers more recent than 1999 and I didn't want to compare apples and kumquats.
Edited by Jenne - 12/12/10 at 6:58pm

I certainly could be off...math is not my strong suit and I am 2 days post shoulder surgery so I'm under some heavy drugs Â :shy

Â

But yes, death is rare, but those numbers don't count the numbers of injury--just death. Â I think the number given by NHTSA is that your odds of getting in a crash are 1:16. Â Now most of those are non-severe crashes, but car crashes are common and can happen at any time (my shoulder injury was from a crash in August, when I was rear-ended by a drunk teen travelling 75mph while coming home from work at 8am!).

Oh, yes! I do not take issue with the 1:16 at all! It is just difficult (for me!) coming from a research based background to just accept what someone youtubes or blogs about as being a real risk. I *really* wish there were crash test studies that have proven or disproven this because that is evidence and not anecdote/theory based decision making.

I wish you a speedy recovery! Surgery is no fun! Get well soon...

Jenne
Edited by Jenne - 12/12/10 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by indieÂ

I mean, seriously, the OP is talking about negative 40 degrees and you all are telling her to wear thin microfleece or put a poncho on. Crazy. The risk of hypothermia is clearly higher than the theoretical (which nobody seems to be able to quantify) risk of ejection in the possibility of an accident.

Â Â In such extreme temperatures, it is vital to keep one's core warm. Â Taking off a coat in such extreme temps starts the heat loss and reduces core temp. Â I know that all posters have this child's best interests at heart, but I suspect that many do not understand what -40 degrees means. Â We are really talking about another world of cold here. Â My experience with -20 degrees (not counting wind chill!) is that within 60 seconds, the mucous in my nose hairs is frozen solid and crunches when I wipe my nose. Â My eyes sting like the dickens and weep involuntarily. Â I won't take my hat off for love or money, much less my coat. Â It can be difficult to exert myself if my mouth isn't covered (to warm the incoming air). Â In the event that I catch a chill, I am physically incapable of warming up without seriously exerting myself or going inside. Â

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A few posters suggested warming up the car in advance. Â When temperatures are this cold, there is no 'warming' up the car. Â As the OP mentioned, you're lucky if you get the car to 30 degrees... and that's after a LONG time of driving around. Â Seat warmers are such a luxury.

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I have to disagree with many of the responses. Â I would NEVER strip my children to base layers in those temps to put them in a car seat. Â I would use tons of layers and natural wool. Â Some folks don't use fleece because it is made of PET or similar plastics and treated with flame retardants. Â I would stick with natural fabrics that have low compression values, tighten those straps, and drive safely. Â The cost-benefit analysis of following 'protocol' is a wash in subzero temps.

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by JenneÂ

Also, the odds of having a kid killed in car crash is .002% and the odds that that death is due to ejection? .00122% 1 in a Million is .0001%. So I guess we are really looking at a risk of 1 in several hundred thousand...right?Jenne

And I think it's safe to assume that not all of those ejections were due to kids wearing thick coats.Â  A lot of them were probably kids who weren't restrained at all, or whose straps were too loose, not because their coats were compressed, but just because their parents were not in the habit of tightening the straps sufficiently no matter what the kids were wearing.Â  It would be interesting to know what percentage were kids who were wearing thick coats, but whose parents had tightened the straps as much as they could and were using the seat correctly - in other words, kids who died just because their coats were compressed an unexpected amount in an accident.Â  My guess is that it would be a tiny percentage, maybe none in most years (maybe none ever.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebackpacksÂ

" rel="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/yeahthat.gif">Â Â In such extreme temperatures, it is vital to keep one's core warm. Â Taking off a coat in such extreme temps starts the heat loss and reduces core temp. Â I know that all posters have this child's best interests at heart, but I suspect that many do not understand what -40 degrees means. Â We are really talking about another world of cold here. Â My experience with -20 degrees (not counting wind chill!) is that within 60 seconds, the mucous in my nose hairs is frozen solid and crunches when I wipe my nose. Â My eyes sting like the dickens and weep involuntarily. Â I won't take my hat off for love or money, much less my coat. Â It can be difficult to exert myself if my mouth isn't covered (to warm the incoming air). Â In the event that I catch a chill, I am physically incapable of warming up without seriously exerting myself or going inside. Â

Â

A few posters suggested warming up the car in advance. Â When temperatures are this cold, there is no 'warming' up the car. Â As the OP mentioned, you're lucky if you get the car to 30 degrees... and that's after a LONG time of driving around. Â Seat warmers are such a luxury.

Â

I have to disagree with many of the responses. Â I would NEVER strip my children to base layers in those temps to put them in a car seat. Â I would use tons of layers and natural wool. Â Some folks don't use fleece because it is made of PET or similar plastics and treated with flame retardants. Â I would stick with natural fabrics that have low compression values, tighten those straps, and drive safely. Â The cost-benefit analysis of following 'protocol' is a wash in subzero temps.

Hey, thanks for explaining just how cold it is. I don't think I'd ever leave my house. Car seat/coat problem solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebackpacksÂ

Quote:
Originally Posted by indieÂ

I mean, seriously, the OP is talking about negative 40 degrees and you all are telling her to wear thin microfleece or put a poncho on. Crazy. The risk of hypothermia is clearly higher than the theoretical (which nobody seems to be able to quantify) risk of ejection in the possibility of an accident.

Â Â In such extreme temperatures, it is vital to keep one's core warm. Â Taking off a coat in such extreme temps starts the heat loss and reduces core temp. Â I know that all posters have this child's best interests at heart, but I suspect that many do not understand what -40 degrees means. Â We are really talking about another world of cold here. Â My experience with -20 degrees (not counting wind chill!) is that within 60 seconds, the mucous in my nose hairs is frozen solid and crunches when I wipe my nose. Â My eyes sting like the dickens and weep involuntarily. Â I won't take my hat off for love or money, much less my coat. Â It can be difficult to exert myself if my mouth isn't covered (to warm the incoming air). Â In the event that I catch a chill, I am physically incapable of warming up without seriously exerting myself or going inside. Â

Â

A few posters suggested warming up the car in advance. Â When temperatures are this cold, there is no 'warming' up the car. Â As the OP mentioned, you're lucky if you get the car to 30 degrees... and that's after a LONG time of driving around. Â Seat warmers are such a luxury.

Â

I have to disagree with many of the responses. Â I would NEVER strip my children to base layers in those temps to put them in a car seat. Â I would use tons of layers and natural wool. Â Some folks don't use fleece because it is made of PET or similar plastics and treated with flame retardants. Â I would stick with natural fabrics that have low compression values, tighten those straps, and drive safely. Â The cost-benefit analysis of following 'protocol' is a wash in subzero temps.

i read through this entire thread and this sounds like sound advice to me. but i'm no expert. i am one of the few people who do no coats in car seats around here. i know other parents get their kids in the cars and go way faster than we do.

Â

for those in 40 below 0 temperatures i have no experience or advice. but for those in more moderate climates, like chicagoland (of which i am also a resident) and without a van or a garage or a remote starter, you could maybe try warming up a blanket (in the dryer or a plug in electric blanket) to at least make it good and hot for those first few minutes that your kiddo is in the carseat without their coat on.

Well, I have to disagree. Â It does not regularly get -40* here (I have only seen it once in the past 2 winters) but we go regularly see -20 to -30*. Â We never do coats in the car seats. Â We don't have a garage, and we don't pre-heat the car. Â It works for us. Â I certainly understand the hesitancy, but a child is not going to get hypothermia in the two minutes it takes to buckle and cover with a coat and blankets. Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by leighi123Â

You can wear long underwear, then clothes with fleece over the top - as long as you dont have to loosen the straps to put the kid in, then its ok. Â

Â

Instead of a coat, use a double layer carseat poncho on-top, or a coat on backwards (over the harness after its buckled tight), or just pile on blankets and when you get where you are going (the car will be warmed up at that point), get out of the carseat and put the coat on and then open the doors. Â

When you put the coat on after buckling them in, how do you make sure it will not come lose in an inpact? (my hypothermia concern)
Â

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by LlyraÂ

We buckle the child into the seat, and then put the heavy coat on backwards, over the buckles, tucked in around the child. The child is safe, and warm, and there's not any hypothermia risk-- the child is only out of the coat for a few seconds.

See my above question.

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyCityMomÂ

Also, note that belt webbing (like in the harness) stretches during a crash. Â Not like elastic, but surely the head-hole will be larger that it started out with. Â The force of the child's body will force the chest clip down and the "head hole" will become bigger.

Â

Think of putting the coat in a space saver bag- it will greatly decrease the volume that it takes up. Â Same goes with crash forces- they will compress the coat, the air will come out, and your harness won't be as "snug" as you once thought it was.

Â

If you have to loosen the harness to accommodate a piece of clothing, the piece of clothing is interfering and is too thick/bulky.

Â

And yes, I know it's a pain. Â I'm Â a Chicagoan and it gets cold here too !

I can definitely see how a child can fit through the straps of a carseat., how do they fit through the head whole of the coat when ejected? Or does the coat stay on them?
Â

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer's WifeÂ

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatioGardenerÂ

nak

Â

i'm trying to figure out how to keep my baby warm too.Â  when it's -40 out my car doesn't warm up to freezing even, so i need to figure out how i can strap him in then bundle him so that he stays bundled (he's an escape artist).Â  I may need blankets...

I can't even imagine (I live in the desert).Â Â  so, the car never warms up past zero the whole time you are driving?Â  Brrrr.Â

No, alot of the time my car never gets over freezing.

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by elanorhÂ

I do know of a situation where some kids were buckled in and died of hypothermia (didn't have their coats on, high school kids driving desolate winter roads in Wyoming).Â  The parents were told that the kids would have lived if they'd had their coats on to keep them warm 'til their wreck was noticed.Â  They didn't die from their injuries, but from hypothermia (coupled with broken limbs or etc. preventingÂ

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I can totally see this happening

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatioGardenerÂ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFishÂ

just wanted to add, with a younger child (older than bucket seat age though), you can get larger bunting bags. they fit on strollers and convertible carseats too. we have one, it is really warm (like a big sleeping bag) with a removable panel on the back for the straps. so i bundle my dd up in it, take her out to the car, lift off the back panel and then only have to unzip the sides a little bit to get my hands in there and do her straps up... her back is firmly against the car seat, but she stays nice and warm while getting buckled in. we live in montreal and have street parking, so heating the car up beforehand is impractical, and we occasionally have to walk far enough to our car that just a couple of blankets aren't going to protect her from the elements.

thank you, silverfish!Â  a montrealer understands the cold :)Â  would you mind posting a link for the type of bag you are talking about?

Â

and to the pp who asked about the car not warming up to zero... yup!Â Â Â  i have an older car, outside parking just like silverfish, and it gets cold .Â  i have to wear gloves to drive or my hands get so cold they hurt.Â  the heater blows cold air for a good 30 minutes.Â  Even the antifreeze freezes at times!Â  you know it's cold when you have to plug your car in.

Â

Plug in my car almost every night from now until mid Feb.

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2sorenÂ

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childpas.htm

Â

Well, there is an average of 4 deaths and 504 injuries from car accidents every day in children under 14. Â Over 1300 dead each year and 180,000 injured, some with permanent, disabling spinal injuries. Out of approximately 60 million kids under 14 in the US. Â Car-related fatalities are the leading cause of death for children in America. Â In 2002 (the most recent numbers I could find in a quick search) 21% of all kids that died that year died in car accidentsÂ http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Kids.html

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Many of these kids were not restrained properly (whether in a harness, booster, or adult seat belt). Â It is estimated that between 70 and 85% of car seats and boosters are used incorrectly. Â It takes only a casual look around your nearest children's museum parking lot to see that many of such seats are installed incorrectly, and quite often the harnesses aren't being used correctly (usually kept much too loose.) Â  As you have learned after reading other posts in this thread, wearing a thick coat under the harness makes the straps too loose, and often forces the straps down over the child's shoulders, which will make the straps virtually useless in an accident. Â Bulky clothing under the harness = not using your car seat correctly.

Â

The risk is not 1 in a billion. Â Your child is more likely to die in a car accident than from ANYTHING else. Â Not using best practice EVERY time we strap our kids in the car is quite unwise. Â It takes a little extra time, a little extra thought, but, as many others have said, there are ways to do it safely (and warmly!), even in the most extreme weather conditions. Â If we knew for a fact that our next car ride would be without incident, I suppose we wouldn't need to use a car seat at all. Â But, of course, we can never be so certain. Â We must assume that this will be the ride that ends up in an accident, and strap our kids in the way we'd want them strapped in if we knew we'd get in a bad crash. Â

Yes there are many different ways to use a carseat improperly.
Â

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebackpacksÂ

Quote:
Originally Posted by indieÂ

I mean, seriously, the OP is talking about negative 40 degrees and you all are telling her to wear thin microfleece or put a poncho on. Crazy. The risk of hypothermia is clearly higher than the theoretical (which nobody seems to be able to quantify) risk of ejection in the possibility of an accident.

Â Â In such extreme temperatures, it is vital to keep one's core warm. Â Taking off a coat in such extreme temps starts the heat loss and reduces core temp. Â I know that all posters have this child's best interests at heart, but I suspect that many do not understand what -40 degrees means. Â We are really talking about another world of cold here. Â My experience with -20 degrees (not counting wind chill!) is that within 60 seconds, the mucous in my nose hairs is frozen solid and crunches when I wipe my nose. Â My eyes sting like the dickens and weep involuntarily. Â I won't take my hat off for love or money, much less my coat. Â It can be difficult to exert myself if my mouth isn't covered (to warm the incoming air). Â In the event that I catch a chill, I am physically incapable of warming up without seriously exerting myself or going inside. Â

Â

A few posters suggested warming up the car in advance. Â When temperatures are this cold, there is no 'warming' up the car. Â As the OP mentioned, you're lucky if you get the car to 30 degrees... and that's after a LONG time of driving around. Â Seat warmers are such a luxury.

Â

I have to disagree with many of the responses. Â I would NEVER strip my children to base layers in those temps to put them in a car seat. Â I would use tons of layers and natural wool. Â Some folks don't use fleece because it is made of PET or similar plastics and treated with flame retardants. Â I would stick with natural fabrics that have low compression values, tighten those straps, and drive safely. Â The cost-benefit analysis of following 'protocol' is a wash in subzero temps.

Thank you.

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaffodilÂ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenneÂ

Also, the odds of having a kid killed in car crash is .002% and the odds that that death is due to ejection? .00122% 1 in a Million is .0001%. So I guess we are really looking at a risk of 1 in several hundred thousand...right?Jenne

And I think it's safe to assume that not all of those ejections were due to kids wearing thick coats.Â  A lot of them were probably kids who weren't restrained at all, or whose straps were too loose, not because their coats were compressed, but just because their parents were not in the habit of tightening the straps sufficiently no matter what the kids were wearing.Â  It would be interesting to know what percentage were kids who were wearing thick coats, but whose parents had tightened the straps as much as they could and were using the seat correctly - in other words, kids who died just because their coats were compressed an unexpected amount in an accident.Â  My guess is that it would be a tiny percentage, maybe none in most years (maybe none ever.)

I would like to make my decision based on facts, but none can be found.....

Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by an_auroraÂ

Well, I have to disagree. Â It does not regularly get -40* here (I have only seen it once in the past 2 winters) but we go regularly see -20 to -30*. Â We never do coats in the car seats. Â We don't have a garage, and we don't pre-heat the car. Â It works for us. Â I certainly understand the hesitancy, but a child is not going to get hypothermia in the two minutes it takes to buckle and cover with a coat and blankets. Â

I believe -30F is close to -40C.

Just to give posters an idea of our weather....here is a video of weather that is similiar to the past four days or so here. (note:this is not my city) We have either snow tires or studded tires.

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You can always get a heated throw specifically designed for use in cars. They have a power supply that plugs right into your car.

Â

Otherwise a small kids thermos with a built in straw and some hot cocoa will keep them warm while your cars engine warms up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momtoSÂ

Just to give posters an idea of our weather....here is a video of weather that is similiar to the past four days or so here. (note:this is not my city) We have either snow tires or studded tires.

Â

Â

Ah, you deal with white-outs, as well. Â You probably have an emergency kit in your car, just like us. Â We don't take chances when outside of the cities, towns, and interstates. Â When the weather is this bad, we're far more likely to end up in a snow bank, than a collision with another car. Â My biggest fears are getting stuck out of cell range and/or not being able to (re-) start the car. Â

Â

When we're just putzing around locally, though, this isn't such a big concern.

Â

For those with super cold weather... one of the coat tricks does NOT involve taking the coat off- so you could consider using that...

Â

To do it you have your child get in the carseat with the coat ON and put their arms in the harness. You unzip/button the coat, pull the harness over the zipper of the coat and buckle the straps and clips and then you can rezip the coat.Â
So the harness is actually hidden underneath the coat.

There is some bulk behind the child, but it's a good option.Â  Some coats work better for this- depending on what fabric they have around the neck.

Â

Â

I also wish there was more research or just dummy videos with this.Â  My kids have a few 'slippery' coats that I worry about.Â  They are not bulky at all, but just slippery and my dd is fairly petite.Â  Sometimes I worry she's slop right thru the harness straps.Â  It's not really a tightness issue, but when I see how that happens with a thin slippery coat it really makes sense that this could happen with a bulky winter coat.Â  I just also wish there was something more concrete to show the skeptics (like my husband).

Â

Jessica

Â

I believe -30F is close to -40C.

-40*C = -40* F :)

Â

I have seen the "coat trick" that involves unzipping and re-zipping but that takes way too long for me, and I don't like the bulk behind the child. Â I find it much easier to just take the coat of quickly and tuck it around them. Â We also have a basket of blankets near the coats in the house, and we can carry warm blankets out to the car (and take those into the store so they stay warm).

I am really having a hard time understanding this thread.Â

Â

So many people are saying "you have no idea how cold it gets here" and so on with people replying "but I live in an area that gets colder than you and I STILL make sure there is not a lot of bulk between my kid and the straps".Â  Northern Ontario here people, trust me, it gets very cold.Â  My key fob is broken so I can't use my remote start and my DH parks in he garage, not me.Â  It is doable.Â

Â

Also, for people asking for proof and statistics, i'm assuming you've read your carseat manual through?Â  Is in not proof enough when the carseat manufacturer says not to do it?Â  Not every manual does but some do.Â  Why not call the company that makes your carseat and ask what they recommend?Â  Most companies will tell you not to use bulky clothes.Â  I am working on getting this information right now.

Â

Isn't the "carseat coat trick" a happy medium for everyone?Â  It doesn't involve taking anything off at all and take maybe an extra fifteen seconds per seat.Â  Wha reason is there not to do this if there is even a slight possibility that the risks of bulky coats are real?Â  I don't really see how people can still be arguing this.

Â

Also, I don't really see how flu/pneumonia relates to this discussion at all?Â  It's not like anyone here is recommending bringing kids out in t-shirts or anything?Â  And even if they were, you catch the flu and pneumonia through viruses and/or bacteria, not the weather....

Jamie- Sorry for being unclear (and my edit was!) but DH and I have been having a discussion recently about risks and safety. That discussion was on my mind. It seems to me that overall wearing a coat (or not!) in a carseat is a relatively small risk born out by the stats on ejection from 2009. Similarly, I was looking for stats on deaths in children for flu/pnuemonia to compare with the risk of death from the various vaccines. I see how though it could be construed that I was suggesting that there is a link between not wearing a coat and flu/pnumonia. There is not.

I guess I cannot help you understand why I prefer data to speculation...even from the carseat company. Life is full of risks and I just try to understand what is a real danger and what is something that is only perceived to be a danger. Data helps with this distinction for me and for the decision making I prefer to do. I cannot speak to what other thread posters may or may not feel about data and decision making.

Obviously, this is an issue that people feel strongly about. I respect that we all have things that are near and dear to us. I guess I also don't see where people are arguing. Just giving their protocols and opinions. Isn't that how we all learn? Having lived somewhere where winter temps were regularly 20-50 below, I have much empathy with mamas trying to figure out what is best for their families. As an adult those temperatures were dangerous to me, let alone a child. (It is only logical, at 32 degrees water freezes. Blood is largely made of water. At -20 F it takes 1 *minute* of skin exposure for frostbite to begin. That means from 98.6 degrees to 32 in 60 seconds.) So, for these mamas it is really big decision to not put a coat on a child in the car.

Jenne

Right, well, I can attest to the fact that I have 3 kids, on my third winter in Alaska, and none of us has ever had frostbite ;) Â And nobody whines about the cold. Â Some mornings on the way to school DD will say "WOW it's cold mom" but that's the extent. Â If it was a huge problem with uncomfortable screaming children, I would sympathize, but so far it has not come up, and I will continue on with removing coats and recommending that others do so as well. Of course, I understand why other mamas in similar or colder/windier climates would be concerned about the cold--it's very hard to deal with.

Â

I suppose my kids would be more at risk for exposure & hypothermia when walking around the neighborhood or playing in the snow (granted we only do this if it's above -10 or so). Â I have friends in WA saying it's so cold that their kids will get hypothermia without a coat (and I giggle, I admit, as we moved from WA to AK and it seems like the tropics there!).

Well stated, Jenne. Â I am with you on this one. Â I cannot speak for others, though. Â YMMV. Â We generally make decisions based on a cost/benefit analysis after doing much research. Â Clearly, coats with high compression values are out, but this doesn't include all coats. Â Infinitesimal risks do not keep me up at night. Â For me, empirical evidence outweighs anecdotal advice... even when it is coming from the government or a car seat manufacturer. Â  Â
Â

Quote:
Originally Posted by JenneÂ

I guess I cannot help you understand why I prefer data to speculation...even from the carseat company. Life is full of risks and I just try to understand what is a real danger and what is something that is only perceived to be a danger. Data helps with this distinction for me and for the decision making I prefer to do. I cannot speak to what other thread posters may or may not feel about data and decision making.
Â

There is no real-world data for this because there is so much other misuse that goes on with car seats.Â  There is no way to tell which specific mis-uses are worse than others, so we must trust to the car seat manufacturers and gov't agencies regulations.

Â

Every manual will specify that the straps must be tight.Â  Every one, a few specifically mention coats, but the second you start loosening the straps to accomodate a coat, you are going against manufacturers directions.Â  Those straps are the only thing keeping your child from flying out the window in a collision.Â  If you are worried about the cold in the 5 seconds it takes to unzip and rezip their coat, aren't you worried about them being ejected from the vehicle in the cold?Â  Because that's the worse-case scenario to me.

Â

I get that it's hard and awkward when it's cold.Â  I have 3 kids during the day to strap in, and while we don't see the huge negative temps for long, we do get them.Â  In fact, I used to take the coats off the daycare kids and stopped because they were shivering (I think this whole thing is harder when you don't get the dress the kids from the skin out.) so switched to the coat trick so that they'd have a layer between themselves and the seat.

Â

For those of us who are techs, we are obligated to teach best practice.Â  Best practice is to never put a child in a seat with a coat on.Â  I personally buy a 'car coat' every year, (I look for a layer of fleece with a thin windbreaking layer over it) because it will fit in the harness as-is, without needing adjustment.

Â

If you choose to do otherwise, you need to do so with the full knowledge that you are going against manufacturer's recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieBÂ

Quote:
Originally Posted by blizzard_babeÂ

'K, I'm going to give it a try. We take the boys out pretty infrequently; there's not much for them to do, usually.Â

Here's one:

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