Penmanship for a kindergardener?

[akmbloom]

My daughter is fairly advanced in academic subjects (a little too advanced, maybe, for her class, but that's another thread) and LOVES arts - especially drawing.  Her 9-week conference at kindergarden was fine but her one area that the teacher said she needs improvement in is penmanship/writing.  This is important to me to figure out now because I really believe that facility with writing is a big part of literacy...

I'd noticed her sort of messy penmanship, and that she doesn't really hold a pen/marker correctly (she holds it really close to the tip, and without the 3-finger-grip, just sort of clutches it with 4 fingers), and I've tried a little bit to work on it with her but not consistently.  She tends to want to only write capitals, and writes some letters backwards (which she is aware of sometimes but not all the time), and often writes the letters so the shapes look pretty good but she writes them with "incorrect" strokes.  She tends to want to write quickly and doesn't care too much about doing it "right" or neatly - I remember really loving learning how to form the letters and got into calligraphy when I was older, so maybe it's partly just my own weirdness shaping how I'm thinking about this.

I guess I'm wondering a couple things -

1) how to help her correct her grip, especially because she loves drawing... do pencil grip thingies help kids this young?  and how to help her form letters correctly so she doesn't have trouble later on when they get to cursive?

2) whether she is really doing fine according to her age/development, and I'm just one of those overbearing "but my kid is gifted!" parents worrying about something not that important, or if her writing should be on a level more consistent with the rest of what she's able to do. 

what do you think?

[KCMichigan]

I would talk to the teacher about ways to help her. Depending on what the teacher is seeing a few ideas are:

pencil grips to help her keep a tripod grasp

visual cues for letter formation

hardness/thickness of pencil (it sounds odd, but really it does help some students that press really hard or light)

using alternative writing (write in shaving cream with fingers, write in the air 'invisible', pain letters, etc) helps form muscle memory

The reversals are age appropriate, as is writing in all capitals. I would try to make it fun, low stress--but start to get the muscle memory now. Once a child decided to write a certain way, it is very very hard habit to break.

Writing is one of the 'last' skills to develop. Usually it involves multiple factors: reading skills (most people need to read a word before they can write it independently so writing skills often lag a bit behind reading), fine motor skills (HUGE for K kids, some have the ability to do other tasks-but simply have not developed the fine motor skills needed for writing even if they are otherwise ready cognitively), attention span (needs to have the ability to focus on the task- this involves a lot of mental concentration since the muscle memory is not there yet).

Some kids are fantastic readers and/or great at math-- but struggle with writing. It involves different physical mechanics that are much different than reading. It is common for kids to be ahead or at grade level for reading/math and just have a hard time with writing due to the skill sets mentioned above.

Is she young or old or just in the middle for K? That can be an issue as well...since the fine motor control that is considered 'normal' for a young five year old is much different than one that is 6 or 6.5.

Most K kids have messy writing- they are still learning and depending on your school they may or may not do a lot of writing. Is your DD 'behind' in writing or is it the only area the teacher thought she could use some improvement on? 

It it seems to not be improving and/or is really behind I would consult and OT and they often have some home exercises or tools to help. They can also evaluate if it is a fine motor concern or not. (mostly it is not, but sometimes it is due to small muscle control).

[carrierwright]

Next time you're in class for open house, etc you may also glance at the other kids' work. These are all very normal parts of literacy development at the kinder level. Backwards letters persist for many until late 1st grade. Also remember that at only 9 weeks into the kinder year many children are still struggling to remember the difference b/w the letters b and d or m and n, so if she's already there she's way above the curve! (mama to a 5 and 7 year old)

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by akmbloom 

My daughter is fairly advanced in academic subjects (a little too advanced, maybe, for her class, but that's another thread) and LOVES arts - especially drawing.  Her 9-week conference at kindergarden was fine but her one area that the teacher said she needs improvement in is penmanship/writing.  This is important to me to figure out now because I really believe that facility with writing is a big part of literacy...

I'd noticed her sort of messy penmanship, and that she doesn't really hold a pen/marker correctly (she holds it really close to the tip, and without the 3-finger-grip, just sort of clutches it with 4 fingers), and I've tried a little bit to work on it with her but not consistently.  She tends to want to only write capitals, and writes some letters backwards (which she is aware of sometimes but not all the time), and often writes the letters so the shapes look pretty good but she writes them with "incorrect" strokes.  She tends to want to write quickly and doesn't care too much about doing it "right" or neatly - I remember really loving learning how to form the letters and got into calligraphy when I was older, so maybe it's partly just my own weirdness shaping how I'm thinking about this.

I guess I'm wondering a couple things -

1) how to help her correct her grip, especially because she loves drawing... do pencil grip thingies help kids this young?  and how to help her form letters correctly so she doesn't have trouble later on when they get to cursive?

2) whether she is really doing fine according to her age/development, and I'm just one of those overbearing "but my kid is gifted!" parents worrying about something not that important, or if her writing should be on a level more consistent with the rest of what she's able to do. 

what do you think?

1) I just spoke to a mom yesterday who is actually an occupational therapist, and yes, she uses the pencil grip thingies for 5 year olds.

2) Just compared to my non-gifted daughter and also based on my general knowledge

- She pretty much only wants to write capitals, and only in the last week has sort of been open to learning the lower case letters

- Mirror writing is age appropriate

- This is the typical age to work on stroke formation

I've been working with cheap workbooks and they all have these stroke formation cues (arrows) but they are awful. They are visually confusing, and there is no care as to the order the letters are presented in. If its a concern, look into specialized workbooks or maybe even get a small slate. Start with the letters that begin with a long downstroke from the top left to bottom left and then jump back up to the top again to make the next stroke, like B, D, E, F, etc. Then the habit can be set consistently. Next would be things that have the long stroke but don't jump back to the top left, like H, K and L. Last are the "center" letters like A, C, G, etc., that start from a more central point or have a primary curve. Ordering letters like that can make habits on where to start a stroke - otherwise her movements won't be as consistent, and she might not notice patterns.

Hope that helps. The summary is that your kid is definitely within age range, the things mentioned to work on are things a lot of kids this age need to work on. I personally decided for my daughter to just let her enjoy forming letters first, and now that she's developed a good familiarity, she does indeed seem more open to input on formation. Perhaps with other children, it's more important to stop a habit before it starts, but that's why we're parents, to know how our kids tick :)

[whatsnextmom]

Those physical milestones don't neccessarily line up with intellectual developments. It sounds like her "issues" are very much in the realm of normal. Many kids this age not only struggle with the pencil grip but also being able to put enough pressure on the page to write solid, strong lines. Letter reversals are perfectly normal until about 7-years-old. Using wrong strokes is normal too as most kids haven't even been formally instructed much in writing at this point (our kindies expect kids to write sentances but they don't neccessarily teach penmanship KWIM?)  If she's strong otherwise, it's likely the teacher only brought it up because it's routine to offer areas for improvement in conferences... even when the low areas are well within normal range.

Personally, both myself and my youngest are dysgraphic (and both on the gifted scale) but I think we're far more extreme than you are talking. For us, the fine motor weakness didn't stop at penmanship. Elementary was tough in that reguard for me. There was always a major mismatch between my academic levels and my penmanship levels. In middle school, I was allowed to type everything so saved there. The issue seemed to resolve itself sometime in high school when I started to learn drafting (old fashioned pencil drafting lol.) DS has had more help and understanding (plus some occupational therapy for all sorts of sensitivities.) He's been allowed to type larger projects from about 2nd grade. I found the "Handwriting Without Tears" program helpful. My eldest had used their cursive program for fun (she's very advanced in fine motors and writing in particular and wanted to learn it on her own in 1st grade.) I decided to try the printing program for DS and it did correct his strokes easily and without overwhelming him. DS is newly 10 and in 5th grade and he's starting to catch up with the other kids in this reguard.... well, at least his penmanship looks like a smart 3rd grader wrote it and not a genious kindergartener lol.

Again, from what you said though, I wouldn't put your DD in the same catergory as us. We were both NOT in the realm of normal in this one area. Your DD is making classic kindergarten mistakes. If she's having meltdowns because her work doesn't look like the other kids, I'd consider "Handwriting Without Tears." It's inexpensive and both my kids liked it. If it's not really bugging her, you might just let age handle it.

[karne]

I think the important thing is to watch the progress as the year goes on.  There is often a fair amount of difference between the beginning and end of K, and as much, if no more in the span of the grade 1 year.

My youngest is most likely dysgraphic-about to have an OT eval, but reads and does math several grade levels above his age  He sounds like the above poster's description..  My oldest is dysgraphic and had years of OT intervention.  The saving grace, to be honest, is keyboarding.

[akmbloom]

Thanks for your feedback and ideas!  She's 5 and a half - in the middle for kindergarden age...  I think I will get her some pencil grips and work on how to shape letters correctly, and implement some of your other ideas in a fun way, but not stress too much about the rest of it.  I don't think she has dysgraphia, probably, but I do want to help her form good habits now (instead of trying to correct bad habits later). 

I got her a notebook that has space for both drawing and "primary writing" ruled lines (wide-spaced lines with a dotted line in the middle), so I think we'll try to do a picture a day with captions/stories (which is fun for her, not extra work I'm forcing her to do).  I think just having more visual cues for where to place the letters is already helping.

[tazzae]

My dd's kindy teacher suggested triangle shaped pencils to encourage the three finger tripod grip  We are a waldorf family, and dd loves to color; we have these, pricey but gorgeous color and last forever (2 years and going strong!)  Here's some other triangle shaped pencils (colored and regular).

[redpajama]

My son (also 5.5, also in kindergarten) sounds a lot like your daughter--he's in an "accelerated readers" program at school, is very bright, and excels in academics, but his penmanship (which almost seems like a generous word in this case ) is pretty terrible.  I've noticed that he *can* write smaller/neater if he is really inspired (when he was trying to convince his little sister that a fairy had written her the note he was leaving her, for example, he wrote quite small), but he generally writes in largish, sloppy, capital letters.  I'm not too worried--I don't think you should be, either.  

I would focus more on correcting her grip, perhaps, than on "teaching" her proper letter formation.  If her school is anything like my son's, she probably gets plenty of writing practice in the course of her day.  

[Holland73]

I highly recommend Handwriting Without Tears.

I use it with my 2nd grade son, who has struggled with handwriting since kinder.  HWT was highly recommended to me by 3 different OTs.  It is an amazing program and I only wish school districts would make the HWT curriculum mandatory. 

As a first grade teacher, I started implementing the tools I have learned from using this program with my son into my classroom.  Our school district has no handwriting curriculum, nor does my son's school district.  In fact, I have never met a teacher who has been properly trained in handwriting instruction.  It's a huge deficit that is often overlooked. 

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by akmbloom 

My daughter is fairly advanced in academic subjects (a little too advanced, maybe, for her class, but that's another thread) and LOVES arts - especially drawing.  Her 9-week conference at kindergarden was fine but her one area that the teacher said she needs improvement in is penmanship/writing.  This is important to me to figure out now because I really believe that facility with writing is a big part of literacy...

I agree that facility with writing is an important part of literacy, but I think you need to distinguish penmanship from literacy. Ds had a fine motor delay and is actually one of the best writers in his class. He wasn't writing letters in K (because of his delay) and his 1st grade teacher despaired of his handwriting. Two years of occupational therapy helped, but he's still 'low average'. And he does really well with a keyboard, so I'm just not going to sweat it.

I'd noticed her sort of messy penmanship, and that she doesn't really hold a pen/marker correctly (she holds it really close to the tip, and without the 3-finger-grip, just sort of clutches it with 4 fingers), and I've tried a little bit to work on it with her but not consistently.  She tends to want to only write capitals, and writes some letters backwards (which she is aware of sometimes but not all the time), and often writes the letters so the shapes look pretty good but she writes them with "incorrect" strokes.  She tends to want to write quickly and doesn't care too much about doing it "right" or neatly - I remember really loving learning how to form the letters and got into calligraphy when I was older, so maybe it's partly just my own weirdness shaping how I'm thinking about this.

I guess I'm wondering a couple things -

1) how to help her correct her grip, especially because she loves drawing... do pencil grip thingies help kids this young?  and how to help her form letters correctly so she doesn't have trouble later on when they get to cursive?

The best thing for this is: Short pencils (golf pencil sized or smaller) and crayons. That forces the child into a tripod grip because it's too short for the full fist grip. The other thing I would do is fine motor work - beading, lacing, legos, painting with eye droppers, picking things up with tongs and tweezers, playdough, silly putty etc. As her finger strength increases, so will her writing stamina and ability to maintain a proper grip. Our occupational therapist cautioned against the pencil grip thingy for a young child and instead encouraged these other things.

I wouldn't worry about the letter reversal. That's pretty common even through the middle of 1st grade. Dd is left handed and wrote complete mirror image a lot when she was 5, and still reversed a ton when she was in K. She's in 1st grade now and does all of her letters right, and I think she's finally gotten the last of her numbers (5) to go the right way. She's very advanced in reading and actually pretty advanced in writing, so the letter formation seemed to be independent of that.

2) whether she is really doing fine according to her age/development, and I'm just one of those overbearing "but my kid is gifted!" parents worrying about something not that important, or if her writing should be on a level more consistent with the rest of what she's able to do.

From what you wrote, I think she is doing fine according to her development, with the exception of the grip. She really 'should' have the tripod grip by now. I suspect the teacher pointed out penmanship as something to work on because she didn't have anything else to point out! Writing often lags considerably behind reading ability (about 2 years I read somewhere), both in terms of spelling and in terms of letter formation. Really, they aren't expected to do more than write single words mostly legibly in K.

I heartily second the recommendation for Handwriting without Tears. That's the program they used in my kids' kindergarten and it's the one used by our son's occupational therapist. I just bought the first cursive book for dd (age 6) last night because she's DYING to learn cursive. I have no idea why. She's in first grade. She has no need for cursive. But hey, it kept her busy for a good 30 minutes last night and she'd started on another page this morning. She's learned cursive c, a, and now d. It really teaches proper letter formation and results in legible handwriting.

[claras_mom]

Dd1's teacher actually does a handwriting rotation every day, so that all the kids in her K-1 class can work on it. They use the classic lined paper (two solids, with the dotted line in the middle). One of the ways she talks about letter formation is to label the top line the sun (the labels are all with pictographs), the middle is a cloud, and the bottom is the grass. So all the letters need to be on the ground (the grass), most lowercase letters are below the clouds, but some reach up to the sun, etc. Another prompt (though obviously there are exceptions) is to work top to bottom--to make most letters, you start at the top.

The best thing for this is: Short pencils (golf pencil sized or smaller) and crayons. That forces the child into a tripod grip because it's too short for the full fist grip. The other thing I would do is fine motor work - beading, lacing, legos, painting with eye droppers, picking things up with tongs and tweezers, playdough, silly putty etc. As her finger strength increases, so will her writing stamina and ability to maintain a proper grip. Our occupational therapist cautioned against the pencil grip thingy for a young child and instead encouraged these other things.

Lynn, this is really helpful to me (I'd like to be able to work with dd a little at home, but in a fairly sneaky way). :


I have to say that having been assigned to the handwriting station as a parent volunteer, it can be a really hard thing for kids to focus on. Because part of it is the conception of making handwriting "clear" or even "beautiful", but really a lot of them just see the drudgery of it. Thus my feeling that sneakiness is a good way to go, in working on it.

[rabrog]

We went through the same thing with DD last year in K.  If you want to PM me, please do.  Basically we had her do fun writing things at home - lists, "recipes" (her pancake recipe requires two cups of butter so it must be good or she was channeling Paula Deen!), etc. just to get her writing more.  I didn't start to correct things until the second semester and then it would just be reversals. 

Everything you've stated is perfectly normal in her age, though I would go with a pencil grip for that issue just as a guide.  We didn't notice a big difference until this year (1st grade) and now DD is much closer to the middle of the pack with her class re: handwriting.  It's because they're doing it more, actually working on handwriting in the classroom as opposed to it being part of little things during the day. 

Jenn