4.5 Year Old Really Doesn't Like Her Britax Marathon, What Should I Get? - Page 2

[Twinklefae]

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

Completely agreed about the tether, but I do need to stress that there *is* a weight limit for the top tether, which Britax fails to inform consumer's about.  So, *technically speaking,* you shouldn't be tethering the booster past 50#.  Personally, I regret buying the Frontier for booster use past the harness.  It has been a major PITA.

If there is it is more than 65lbs - all forward facing harnessed seats in Canada are required by law to have the top tether attached. 

[Thandiwe]

In the article cited.
 

Originally Posted by devon 

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

Completely agreed about the tether, but I do need to stress that there *is* a weight limit for the top tether, which Britax fails to inform consumer's about.  So, *technically speaking,* you shouldn't be tethering the booster past 50#.

Where are you getting this information?  I don't see anything about it in our car manuals (2006 Odyssey and 2004 Corolla) or the manual for our Sunshine Kids Monterrey Booster, which you can tether/latch.  I was under the impression that you can still latch/tether a booster that allows it past the 40 lbs or whatever since the seatbelt is being used to restrain the child, and the tether is just to restrain the seat.

[Thandiwe]

Actually, the manual states you don't *have* to use the tether WHEN the booster mode is employed.  The top tether above the weight is REQUIRED in harness mode.  And I faulted the Frontier because it is a big pain.  Personally, it was a waste of money.  A lot of it too.  I regret it.  I am trying to stress this for the op, because I'd hate to see anyone else make this mistake.  They have fabulous convertibles; that's all we use.  But it was a waste of money buying the Frontier for belt positioning purposes. 

As the article linked cites, there is a weight limit for top tether, which is good to know.  OBVIOUSLY in reading the article and manual, it is more adventageous to use the top tether, but it severely limits usage of the Frontier in my van, and perhaps in other peoples vehicles. For this reason, it's a major pain and waste.  My husband is grabbing our Britax manual, so I can quote Britax regarding usage of the tether being mandatory....

And here it is.  It is important to note that it's not required by Britax in booster mode.  Page 13 of the manual, child seat features overview:  "When using the child seat in harness mode: -Britax recommends that the tether be used at all times when installing the child seat... -Always use the Versa-Tether for children weighing 65-80 lbs [weight limit for harness mode]."  Immediately prior to this are details about the seat/tether/LATCH which also do not state it is explicitly required in booster mode.  I've read the whole manual looking for this, and it never states that.  In fact, on page 36, "Booster Mode: Positioning Your Child Seat," it says: "Position forward facing only in a seating position with a lap-shoulder belt.  Use only the vehicle's lap and shoulder belt system  when securing a child in booster mode.  Never secure a child with a lap belt only in booster mode.  In booster mode, this child seat can be positioned to the vehicle seat using LATCH.  It the LATCH anchors in your vehicle prevent proper vehicle belt fit across your child you cannot use LATCH to position this seat in booster mode."  That's it; nowhere does that state it is required.  Clearly, the manual, in two different places, states that (while we all *know* it's better to use Versa Tether) it's not required in booster mode but rather in harness mode from 65-80#.

Sooooo... The point I was *trying* to make, coming right from the manual, before we got into who's right, was that it would seem as a parent reading the manual that you can use the booster without the tether.  HOWEVER, the article I cited states that dummies sustained greater brain damage than would be safe without the tether.  I, once again, stated that I can see it because the thing is so friggin' heavy.  Therefore, unless you really want a pain in the butt, don't buy it for booster mode.  I have been very limited in usage of the booster since I have to use tether when in booster mode.

Whew.

EDITED:  Here's another spot:  p. 20, General Information: "Always use the Versa-Tether for children weighing 65-80 lbs in harness mode."  No reference on the entire page to tether being required in booster mode.

Originally Posted by an_aurora 

Yes, you are correct.  

Faulting the Frontier for being used against the manufacturer's explicit instructions is not fair, IMO.  

[DahliaRW]

Is the upper tether even ALLOWED in booster mode?  LATCH is different than tether, usually, in manuals like that.

[Thandiwe]

Yes, the tether and LATCH are both allowed in booster mode, provided it doesn't interfere with the seatbelt.

 

Originally Posted by DahliaRW 

Is the upper tether even ALLOWED in booster mode?  LATCH is different than tether, usually, in manuals like that.

[Melanie_7773]

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

Sooooo... The point I was *trying* to make, coming right from the manual, before we got into who's right, was that it would seem as a parent reading the manual that you can use the booster without the tether.  HOWEVER, the article I cited states that dummies sustained greater brain damage than would be safe without the tether.  I, once again, stated that I can see it because the thing is so friggin' heavy.  Therefore, unless you really want a pain in the butt, don't buy it for booster mode.  I have been very limited in usage of the booster since I have to use tether when in booster mode.

But the Consumer Reports testing didn't address booster usage without the top tether.  They tested harnessed usage without a top tether, and booster usage with a top tether. 

"In our tests of the Britax Frontier toddler booster seat, installed with a lap belt and without the top tether, and tested with a harnessed 52-lb., 6-year-old hybrid III dummy, the dummy's head exceeded the limits for head excursion that would be allowed by the standard test. ...  When we tested the same seat with the top tether installed, and with a 3-point safety belt, the head excursions were within the limits."

(emphasis mine)

Neither of these tests conclude anything at all about the safety of the seat in booster mode without the tether.  It does suggest that the Frontier may not be safely used in harnessed mode above a car manufacturer-imposed top-tether weight limit, but that doesn't seem to be the topic of discussion here.

[Thandiwe]

Yes, perhaps you're right.  I still stand by my fact that the booster is a big pain in booster mode.  I have spent a lot of time researching *exactly* how to safely use the booster, and the manual is a pain.  Britax, and even here in the Consumer Report, don't make it any easier to figure out what is/isn't allowed.  Obviously if you have some education on carseats you know the tether is safer, but not everyone does.  I have been very disappointed with how Britax handled this entire carseat/booster combo and even their manual.  All of this just goes to prove that it's difficult to discern exactly what to do, or rather what is allowed/safe.  If I could do it again, I would not have spent the money on the Frontier (times two for us). 

I stand by Britax for their convertible carseats; they are very awesome carseats. 

 

Originally Posted by Melanie_7773 

But the Consumer Reports testing didn't address booster usage without the top tether.  They tested harnessed usage without a top tether, and booster usage with a top tether. 

"In our tests of the Britax Frontier toddler booster seat, installed with a lap belt and without the top tether, and tested with a harnessed 52-lb., 6-year-old hybrid III dummy, the dummy's head exceeded the limits for head excursion that would be allowed by the standard test. ...  When we tested the same seat with the top tether installed, and with a 3-point safety belt, the head excursions were within the limits."

(emphasis mine)

Neither of these tests conclude anything at all about the safety of the seat in booster mode without the tether.  It does suggest that the Frontier may not be safely used in harnessed mode above a car manufacturer-imposed top-tether weight limit, but that doesn't seem to be the topic of discussion here.

[an_aurora]

The Frontier just seems like an odd duck for Britax.  I haven't seen the 85 version (it's not in any stores in AK) and only briefly played with the original, but it just seemed out of place with the rest of their seats.  Hard to install, etc.  I don't doubt that it's a PITA to use!

[DahliaRW]

I actually don't see how the tether would help excursion in booster mode, since the body moves more with the 3 point belt that is not anchored to the seat.  It seems entirely different than the 5 point harness.  I would think the main function of the tether in booster mode would be to help the seat stay in position.

[Thandiwe]

Just my educated guess, but have you picked one up?  They weigh a ton.  I *think* the premise is that because the seat is such a heavy mass, it would help propel the body even further since it increases the body weight and it's a separate mass that's not secured to the seat.  By securing the booster, it seems like it would then assure that the body doesn't get propelled forward with even greater mass??  Don't know if that makes sense, but it kind of does to me.  As for the head excursion separately?  Maybe not so much.  Either way, it can't be good in an impact. 

 

Originally Posted by DahliaRW 

I actually don't see how the tether would help excursion in booster mode, since the body moves more with the 3 point belt that is not anchored to the seat.  It seems entirely different than the 5 point harness.  I would think the main function of the tether in booster mode would be to help the seat stay in position.

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

I *think* the premise is that because the seat is such a heavy mass, it would help propel the body even further since it increases the body weight and it's a separate mass that's not secured to the seat.  By securing the booster, it seems like it would then assure that the body doesn't get propelled forward with even greater mass??  

Yes, that's one theory.  It does make sense.  From what I have seen, LATCH & tether-ing a booster doesn't make that much difference safety wise, but is handy as it secures the seat when empty so it's not a projectile.
 

[Thandiwe]

As a side note, this is one issue I never realized on my own until a female state trooper pointed this out to me once checking my carseat before my firstborn arrived.  She told me to be sure anything I kept loose in my car was something I was willing to throw at my baby's face with great force.  Whew.  Really struck a nerve.  To this day, I still strap my purse, bookbag, anything down so it doesn't slap the kids in worst case scenario.  I think every parent should be told that, because sometimes you just don't think of those things.
 

Originally Posted by an_aurora 

...but is handy as it secures the seat when empty so it's not a projectile.
 

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by Thandiwe 

Just my educated guess, but have you picked one up?  They weigh a ton.  I *think* the premise is that because the seat is such a heavy mass, it would help propel the body even further since it increases the body weight and it's a separate mass that's not secured to the seat.  By securing the booster, it seems like it would then assure that the body doesn't get propelled forward with even greater mass??  Don't know if that makes sense, but it kind of does to me.  As for the head excursion separately?  Maybe not so much.  Either way, it can't be good in an impact. 

 

 

That's what I meant by holding the seat in place.  But I don't see how that would affect head excursion.  Overall body movement, yes, but I don't see how it make a difference just for the head.  And that would be my primary concern.

On a side note, I often wonder if latching a booster could actually be bad.  In the sense that you want the seat to move with the child to offer the protection of the shell around the child.  If latched, then at some point the booster stops moving and the child is probalby still moving beyond that...
 

[Thandiwe]

Oh no!  I hadn't thought about that!!  :(  One more thing to worry about.... Alas that is the one facet of the booster I was holding onto, the shell with the "true side impact protection".  Again.  Not happy with this booster for booster purposes.  I love, love, love it for the harnessed and extended harnessing features.  But one more thing to worry about for my son! :(
 

Originally Posted by DahliaRW 

On a side note, I often wonder if latching a booster could actually be bad.  In the sense that you want the seat to move with the child to offer the protection of the shell around the child.  If latched, then at some point the booster stops moving and the child is probalby still moving beyond that...