Is it possible to gifted with language and normal with everything else?

[pranava]

I keep lurking around here, and have asked a few questions but then find myself saying "oh no, you're reading to much into it.  Kids develop at different rates.  Everyone else will catch up." 

DS, 20 months, seems to be way ahead verbally.  I wouldn't know since he is my first, but so many people go on and on about it.  I thought all kids were like him.  Today one of the daycare teachers said she pulled up a chair to a table so DS could have a snack. She said "I'll put your chair here."  He said "I want the chair over there." while pointing to the other side of the table.  He says sentences with this level of complexity all the time.  A few weeks ago at 19 months he told me, "I see the rainbow up high in the sky.  I wanna touch it"  We were inside sitting at the table so I don't know what he saw.  The daycare teacher went on to say that I really needed to consider moving him to another daycare before he gets too much older because they just aren't set up to give him what he needs. 

But, he doesn't seem to be particullary advanced in any other way.  He can do a shape sorter and tell me what color or shape things are, can count to 10 but only recongnizes quantity to two, and is starting to identify some letters but only when he feels like it.  But he won't scribble for very long, hasn't drawn a line or circle, won't do a puzzle(he can tell me where the pieces go if I ask but has no real interest), and doesn't want to play with anyone but adults yet.  He's seems like a talkative normal to me.

He's just really into talking and books.  Anyone have a little one that was really verbally advanced, but didn't end up gifted?  Did the other kids catch up?

[JollyGG]

Children who are globally gifted are really rare. Though there are kids who are, and some parents of kids who are globally gifted who hang out here. But it is really common for gifted kids to be asynchrounous. What that means is that they are advanced in some areas but not all. Or some kids are advanced in all areas but not to the same degree.

Asynchrounous development can one of the biggest challenges of having a gifted kid. So what do you do with the 1st grader with 4th grade math skills but without the reading and writing skills to move to a fourth grade math program? Or what do you do with the gifted reader who doesn't have the writing skills to communicate those skills in a traditional classroom setting?

There are many gifted kids out there who are advanced in a few subjects and are at age level (or sometimes even behind) in others.

My son is very gifted in language and spoke clearly and early. He started reading early. He loves foreign languages and is currently learning Chinese. But he is at age level in writing, and while he is a bit ahead in Math, he's nowhere near as far ahead as he is in reading.

[LynnS6]

What does the daycare think your son needs that he's not getting there? No matter how gifted he is, early childhood education should focus on play and social skills for the under 3 crowd, and only very limited (or no) academics before formal schooling. There's a difference between a 4 year old wanting to read, picking it up with some help from their parents and a 4 year old in a preschool program that focuses on sight words and doing worksheets. I'd never put my child in one like that!

OK, so my rant over, yes, it's perfectly possible for a child to be gifted in language and not so in other areas. Our ds is gifted in reading and verbal skills (99th percentile) and "only" above average for math (scores ranged from 95th percentile for "problem solving and data interpretation to 86th percentile for "concepts and estimation" to 70th percentile for math computation). His writing is also advanced, but not as advanced as his reading. I suspect that as he gets older, he'll have the potential be a dynamite writer because he has a logical mind, and eye for detail and a real ear for language. He's just not that interested in math or science, though and I don't see him being gifted in this area. His motor skills, FWIW, range from slightly below average to abysmal (as in he needed 2 years of occupational therapy to get within the range of typically developing).

Reading your post, I'd say your son's verbal skills are considerably advanced, but his 'math' and visual-spatial skills aren't all that far behind. I don't know how many 20 month olds can do shape sorters (ds couldn't at that age, dd could, I think), and this is the wrong forum to ask! Counting to 10 at age 20 month is actually advanced -- though this might be verbal rather than 'math'.

But asynchronous development is pretty common in gifted kids -- sometimes the asynchrony is between intellectual and emotional skills (my 6 year old!) and sometimes between different intellectual areas.

A good place to get a sense of whether or not your child is 'ahead' is the PBS Development Tracker.

[whatsnextmom]

Plenty of gifted kids don't start out particularly academic. Neither of mine were in the preschool years. My eldest was very advanced verbally but DS was a late talker (though when he started was using vocabulary most adults don't use.) Honestly, they really just wanted to play as toddlers and preschoolers. They had wild and intensive imaginations. They didn't recite the alphabet or count. They didn't purposely add and subtract. They loved developmental preschool and never really needed anything different.They loved books but they wanted to be read too as opposed to trying to read on their own. They both had atypical interests and had a vast and unusual knowledge base for their age. When they DID decide to start reading, they became fluent in a few weeks. When they DID take interest in math, they zoomed through years worth of curriculum in a month. Both ended up testing in the 99.9th percentile when the school tested them for the gifted program.

I can't say whether your little one is gifted or not but I can say that mine weren't academic until 5 for DD and 4 for DS. In fact, many of their friends were way ahead until kindergarten when mine leapt ahead. It doesn't really matter whether you KNOW he's gifted or not though. Just keep giving him what he seems to need at every stage of his development and you'll all be just fine!

[crunchy_mommy]

My DS (22mos) also has a huge vocabulary & complex sentences (but also lots of simple sentences...) but he doesn't talk much to anyone outside our family, though we still get comments on how well/how much he speaks (makes no sense since he hardly says a word to others???? lol) He can count/identify numbers past 10 & quantity to 3 or 4 I guess (depends on his mood?) He lost interest in his shape sorter but can easily sort all 16 shapes & he loves doing puzzles, even ones that seem like they should be too hard for him. He loves coloring & draws circles & "moons" & "triangles" though those 2 bear less resemblance to what they actually are lol. He knows the alphabet & most of the sounds the letters make & LOVES books. I do think my DS may be gifted (and your DS sounds it too), but definitely moreso in the language area than anything else. He seems a little behind in gross motor skills but I think this could be tied to possible sensory issues... and emotionally/socially he seems far behind IMO. He also nurses more than a newborn & hardly eats table food. So I feel like he's all over the place in areas besides cognitive skills.

What I've found most helpful for DS is TONS of new experiences. I have a mental chart of what's going on in my community & try to bring him somewhere new or do something different with him every day. He just loves it & really blossoms... he otherwise tends to get bored so easily. If that sounds something like your DS, maybe you could find a daycare that is less 'routine' -- somewhere that does lots of field trips etc. and new activities day to day. Also I could see a nature-based daycare (focused on outdoors or farming or whatever, if there's something like that in your area) working really well for a kid like this... or a nanny (perhaps a mom with her own kid or two) who could take him lots of places & provide the variety he may crave. Just a thought. :) I agree with the pp that there's no need to focus on academic skills at such an early age, and I would run fast from any place that centered around that kind of learning. But I also think your DS may get bored if he is going to the same place to play with the same toys with the same kids and do the same activities day after day (or maybe not, but I know my DS would!!) 

Anyway, yeah, I think other kids can & may catch up but your DS may always be verbally advanced & I've read on here that early language skills, in particular, are highly correlated to giftedness as the kids get older.

[pranava]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

What I've found most helpful for DS is TONS of new experiences. I have a mental chart of what's going on in my community & try to bring him somewhere new or do something different with him every day. He just loves it & really blossoms... he otherwise tends to get bored so easily. If that sounds something like your DS, maybe you could find a daycare that is less 'routine' -- somewhere that does lots of field trips etc. and new activities day to day. Also I could see a nature-based daycare (focused on outdoors or farming or whatever, if there's something like that in your area) working really well for a kid like this... or a nanny (perhaps a mom with her own kid or two) who could take him lots of places & provide the variety he may crave. Just a thought. :) I agree with the pp that there's no need to focus on academic skills at such an early age, and I would run fast from any place that centered around that kind of learning. But I also think your DS may get bored if he is going to the same place to play with the same toys with the same kids and do the same activities day after day (or maybe not, but I know my DS would!!) 

Thanks crunchy_mommy!  That's a wonderful idea.  I definitely don't want him doing worksheets - he couldn't anyway, but I didn't think of his daycare being routine to the point of boring.  I guess that should have been common sense for me, but it's so hard to think sometimes when you have a toddler and are communting to a full time job    I know the schedule is very strict and the staff is often consumed with the more rowdy kids in the crowd.  I doubt they even have time to read him a book when he brings it to them.  He would definitely learn more if he had a change of scenery every once in awhile. 

[kai28]

It's totally possible to be asynchronous. From what limited reading I've done, it seems common.

I'm interested in seeing how your DS develops. My DS will be 20months this week, so our kids are very close in age. He's only saying 4-5 word sentences, but he's got a 1,000+ word vocabulary. He's been doing shape sorters for a year now, the past 6 months without help. He likes to categorize things verbally and physically. He builds vehicles out of duplos that actually resemble what he says they are (helicopter, plane, space shuttle, rocket, bulldozer, etc). He draws the same things, without help and they look like what he says they are. Also circles, squares, triangles, stars, a few letters (A, X, M), Etc. He recognizes some letters, but not all.

But... He only counts to 13. Because that's the longest staircase we have. He's trying to count backwards from 10 (think: space shuttle launch countdown), but he can't. Counting objects he can only get to 5 or 6 on a good day. His sentences aren't nearly as long or as complicated as your son's.

As far as daycare is concerned, maybe he's getting bored? I don't really know much about daycare, but maybe he's quickly tiring of the play activities and toys? I know my DS gets really stir crazy, which is why we spend a lot of time outside. Maybe a daycare facility with a wider range of ages or more kids would be more stimulating?

I agree about things being play based for the preschool crowd. I myself am having a hard time find age-appropriate, safe toys for my DS. he's into space ships, rockets, planets (including ours). They don't really make age appropriate stuff like that for kids his age. Same with books. Realistic looking space shuttle books are all huge with a little TOO much info.

We'll be trying the library again - story hour might be something you could do with your DS and your baby. Our Childrens dept is walled off from the rest of the library and they don't care about noise, and my DS can't run away.

Another thought might be to team up with another mom with a kid roughly DS's age (or slightly older). I have a couple of friends with 3 year olds. One friend also has a 4 month old. When we go out we both watch both of our kids. She wears the baby in a sling and we manage to cover all the bases. Baby wearing might make keeping up with a toddler a lot easier. DS could go in the stroller and the baby can be snug against your body under your coat.

Good luck!

[ellemenope]

Originally Posted by pranava 

He's just really into talking and books.  Anyone have a little one that was really verbally advanced, but didn't end up gifted?  Did the other kids catch up?

DD is verbally advanced while not necessarily developing that way across the board.  I am sorry I have not responded sooner but we are in the process of unpacking our house, so every single spare second I have has been going towards figuring out where something is.

DD was also speaking like your DS is now at 18 months.  She went from about 50 words uttered here and there to speaking in complete sentences almost overnight drawing from thousands of words she just started saying out of the blue.  Before this verbal explosion she seemed to differ from other babes in that she was much calmer, more mindful,  more empathetic, had a longer attention span, and seemed to understand more of what you said.  FWIW, the older she gets and the more kids I watch develop the odder her development is looking back on it.  Not only have DD's same-aged peers still not had a language explosion like DD (now almost 2.5) had, but they still are not speaking like she did at 18 months.

Yes, DD is really into books and talking like your DS.  A lot of it I do think is personality and temperament.  Like I said, she has always been so calm and mindful.  She wanted to listen to books.  Between 12 and 18 months we were reading her 45 books a day at least, and not simple little board books, either.  So, of course it makes sense she might have a larger vocabulary.  Also, I am starting to believe that she takes after DH and is a strong aural learner.  She seems to learn effortlessly from jsut listening.   She also has this advanced ability to parse language.  No word is too large for her to grasp.  No phrasing too complex.  It is worth mentioning that DH and I are both great language learner. We have both leared five foreign languages between us, and were both once employed as linguists, (however I am almost exclusively a visual learner.)

 

Now, while DD loves to rote-count up to 20 and back down from 10, and throw out words like forty-six, hundreds, and thousands, she cannot actually count things over 3.  While she can scribble something and announce that angles within the scribbles are similar to a sea turtle or a kite after the fact, she still cannot purposefully draw a smiley face.  While she could identify a hexagon at 18 months, she still has a hard time actually putting the shapes in the holes, and the same with puzzles.  And, while she loves listening to music, can tell you what style a song is, maybe even who is singing it, can pick out specific instruments, and memorize songs, she does not like singing, and so far has not been able to carry a tune.

 

I will say that while most of her strengths seem to stem from a good ear and perhaps inherited language ability, they translate into so much.  And, this is where I have no answers for you yet.  For while it is so easy to talk about something and seemingly teach her these advanced concepts, it is hard to tell how much she is learning, and if there is more going on than just "she is good at language."

 

And, finally, the more and more I am around kids the more I realize that all kids have strengths and weaknesses.  DD is no social genius, and I have met many kids who seem remarkable in that area.  I have also met some really athletic kiddos.  Also, DD has always been so reserved and cautious, so when I see kids run around the playground with just pure joy on their faces, I am just always amazed by that.  And, when I here stories of kids climbing on top of counters and breaking into child-proof locks, it blows my mind.

 

As far as daycare, that seems like such an odd comment your provider made.  I am a SAHM.  We lead a pretty boring life.  Sometimes I wonder if DD would benefit from the social aspect of daycare or possibly the mental stimulation of a montessori, but I too would recommend a good play based daycare with multi-age rooms for your DS.   For me, these pre-school years are so special, and learning should be done through play.  We have yet to expose DD to learning toys or videos.  We have just relied on books and using our imaginations, and DD has learned SO much.

[mckittre]

I don't know what it means, but my 22 month old is also extremely verbal and into books, while seeming pretty normal in other areas.  He talks in long and complicated sentences with most pieces of grammar correct (except he still switches "I" and "you"), and can express basically anything he wants to.  He also loves to memorize books when we read them to him (and wants far more books read in a day than we're willing to do).  It's certainly useful to be able to communicate easily, but there's such a range of normal in language development, I'm not sure it means anything.  Strangers and friends remark to me how smart he is when he talks to them in sentences about things like the antlers on the stuffed moose and the tusks on the walrus, but it makes me uncomfortable when they do.  I suspect many kids who can't speak as well still understand as much. 

[physmom]

I've enjoyed reading this thread to hear all the cute stories even though it seems like more and more DD is going in the direction of math (who knows, maybe she'll change, she's not even two yet so she's keeping her options open ;) ).  One thing that I did find interesting was the difference between speaking about concepts and understanding them.  So, for instance, kids that can count to whatever number but can't necessarily recognize the numbers or enumerate.  I never really thought about that as a verbal skill but DD has a friend who is very verbal (both parents are verbal and I know one is verbally gifted at least, not sure about the other)  who can do the counting just like people describe without enumerating.  

I'm not trying to pick on ellemenope but hers what she said her jumped out at me:
"Now, while DD loves to rote-count up to 20 and back down from 10, and throw out words like forty-six, hundreds, and thousands, she cannot actually count things over 3.  While she can scribble something and announce that angles within the scribbles are similar to a sea turtle or a kite after the fact, she still cannot purposefully draw a smiley face.  While she could identify a hexagon at 18 months, she still has a hard time actually putting the shapes in the holes, and the same with puzzles.  And, while she loves listening to music, can tell you what style a song is, maybe even who is singing it, can pick out specific instruments, and memorize songs, she does not like singing, and so far has not been able to carry a tune."

DD's always been the opposite (or maybe better put her verbal skills are not as asychronous compared to her other skills).  For instance, she'll paint something that looks like a dinosaur and then label it as such (not a masterpiece by any means but with 4 feet, a tail and a head).  She does sometimes skip numbers when counting (oddly only in English not in her second language?) but she's always made the connection between written and spoken numbers and also at least tries to actually count objects (again, might not be completely accurate due to numbers either being out of sequence or skipping them) but she'll get her finger there and count all the objects until she runs out of them.  

Today we were playing with playdough and we had made a bunch of little balls that she was enjoying counting them and putting them in and out of the containers.  Anyways, I showed her how you could divide the balls in half and make two little balls out of a bigger one.  She was absolutely fascinated by that and continuely asked for me to do that over and over again.  Then on her own free will she handed me three small balls and told me to make a bigger ball out of it.  However, when it came to verbalizing alongside the activity she'll either repeat fragments of what I said so I heard a lot of "cut in half" from her today instead of something like "Can you cut the ball in half".  I guess what I'm trying to get at is she knows enough to get me to do what she wants but isn't speaking in fluent, complete sentences all the time at this point.  

It's really interesting to see the way different children learn at this age and I'm very curious to know if they continue in the same manner as they age or not! 

[rightkindofme]

My daughter is 2.5 but speaks like an average to slightly above average 5 year old.  She has friends who are a little bit older than her (like 3-5 weeks older) who cannot speak as well now as she did at 15 months.  However she is not even close to globally gifted.  Her physical skills are dead average to a hair behind.  I make zero effort to push the alphabet or numbers so I'm occasionally surprised at the fact that she recognizes so many.  She can sight read a few words but only because she has a ridiculous memory (just like her father) and Dick and Jane books are big favorites.  She can't/won't do puzzles.  Her hand eye coordination is abysmal (much like me, really) and she is a total klutz.  She's already been in an arm cast just from dropping to the floor during a tantrum.   Loved explaining that to the ER doctor. 

Given that I am highly gifted and my husband is profoundly gifted I will actually be kind of surprised if either of our kids escape being gifted in at least some way.  And we are both very asynchronous.

[Surfacing]

Subbing to come back and read as dd1 is gifted verbally but average in other ways.