would you intervene? School issue - update post 18

[kathymuggle]

Hi all,

My DD is having trouble writing down stuff from the board.  Examples: spelling words, what pages are for homework, etc.  She is in immersion so all of this is in French.  It is absolutely affecting her academically, and, even more importantly, I do think she needs to learn to advocate for herself when something is not working.

I have suggested talking to the teacher or having me talk to the teacher about it - but she is adamant that I/she will not talk to the teacher.  She does not want to make a fuss, stand out, etc.  She also thinks it will not work.  She maintains she is not the only one having this problem - it is a classroom issue.  She thinks the teacher will then want to "talk to her about it", and not necessarily in a positive way,  if she points out that things are not left on the board long enough

She has an IEP for giftedness, but also for writing processing issues.  She is supposed to be given more time than others to write stuff down.  I feel like I could force the issue due to her IEP if need be - but I really do not want to do so without my DD's OK.

What would you do?  Would you intervene on a 12 yr olds behalf if they did not want you to, but you felt intervention was in order?

Kathy

[journeymom]

That's tough.  On the one hand I believe in respecting their feelings, even the "OMG please don't embarrass me" line of thought.  On the other hand they lack perspective and don't realize that it might not end up nearly as bad as they think.

She has an IEP and the teacher needs to abide by it (right? I'm not entirely clear how it works).  If it's just as simple as sending off a polite but firm reminder to her teacher then I'd do it.  

[whatsnextmom]

I'd certainly intervene if it's hurting her academically. She has and IEP that is supposed to give her more time to write things down and that should be followed plain and simple. Yes, it would be best if your DD tried to talk to the teacher about it but if she won't, well, you'll have to.

[kathymuggle]

I am afraid if I intervene against her wishes she will not come to me with issues in the future.

I know I should be held hostage on action by this fear.

Anybody have any magic words (one can dream) on how to convince a 12 yr old that either her or I talking to the teacher is a good idea?  

[whatsnextmom]

No magic words but really, if this is going to cause her to fall behind in school and thus crush her self-esteem, I think it's worth some wrath. 12-year-olds are self-conscience and they don't want to be singled out or considered different for ANY reason but to start dropping in school because a teacher isn't fulfilling her IEP? That's just pointless harm in my book.

Perhaps there is a way to talk to the teacher without your DD knowing?

[CarrieMF]

This is something you could let the teacher know without your dd ever finding out.   

[Lisa1970]

At 12, I would tell her fine, but she needs to bring her grades up. If she is old enough to make her own decision on this, fine, but it will not affect the rules in our home. See what I am saying? She may change her mind and want you to intervene if she finds she cannot turn this around. I am big on feeling that child need us to be there for them. So I would have no problem intervening. But, if she wants to try to handle things on her own, fine, as long as she successfully handles them. 

Also, if you need to intervene, it may be a good learning moment for her where she can see that she can talk things out with someone. It is possible her teacher is a monster about things, but it is possible that the teacher is not realizing your daughter is having troubles and would help.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I am afraid if I intervene against her wishes she will not come to me with issues in the future.

I know I should be held hostage on action by this fear.

Anybody have any magic words (one can dream) on how to convince a 12 yr old that either her or I talking to the teacher is a good idea?  

This is a bigger issue than just the French class work.

I understand your fears. Set up an opportunity for her to share her feelings with you so that you can reassure her.  Ask her to describe specifically what she thinks would happen if you communicated to her teacher that she's required to give your daughter more time to write down instructions.  Just listen carefully and ask for clarification. Then see if you can address her fears and reassure her. 

But she can't not do anything about it.  I agree with Lisa, either she needs to take a stab at talking to her teacher herself or she needs to let you do it.

There aren't any magic words but just keep engaged with her. Talk with her, get her to talk to you.   You know her better than we do, but don't assume she will clam up if you talk to her teacher.  But what if she does?  Will it be forever? Not likely. 

[LynnS6]

I would -- it's tricky because you don't want to embarrass her, but you do need to make sure her educational needs are met.

I would probably sit down with her and talk about how you know that she doesn't want to be embarrassed, but that you need to make sure her educational needs are being met. You can tell her that talking to the teacher is not 'optional' and work out the best way to do it. Does she want to go with you? Does she want you to do it alone? Does she want to do it alone with you following up? However you decide, I would definitely talk to the teacher about her fear of being embarrassed and let the teacher know your daughter would prefer not to be singled out.

This might also be the time to introduce her to one of my favorite concepts from my mom. My mom calls it "The Bad 10 minutes". Sometimes you need to say something or do something that you're reluctant to do, and it's hard. You spend a lot of time and energy getting psyched up to do it. The thing is, the more you put it off, the bigger it becomes in your mind. Sometimes, all you need to do is have the bad few minutes and get it over with. It's always better at the other end than you imagined it would be.

[kathymuggle]

Thanks all.

I am thinking I will talk to DD.  I will allow her to keep quiet if she can bring up her grades without intervention (if this is the path she chooses)- but if she cannot, she or I will need to talk to the teacher.   I think 6 weeks sounds like a good amount of time. 

In some ways this does loose the opportunity to role model advocacy/communication...but it does allow her the opportunity to solve it her way.  

I am going to have to talk to the teacher a bit no matter what so we can monitor things more closely (and thus I will know if she is turning in her work, doing better, etc).  At this point in time I do not have a whole picture as I  only know what DD tells me/shares with me. 

Edited to add:  Lynn - I like the 10 minute thing!  I really do think my DD is making this into a bigger deal in her head than it need be.

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/10/10 at 6:14pm

[karne]

Does your dd know that she has an IEP?  If so, has she participated at all in the conversations or planning for her educational needs?  If not, perhaps this is the time to start involving her, at least in some of the conversations, so that she has an idea that she is really the most important part of the IEP, and her feelings/wishes/input count.  It might not help the immediate problem of copying from the board, but it may begin to help her see that she has a voice in what happens with regard to her classroom experience.

Also, do you have regular parent/teacher/student conferences?  This might be a more private way for her to address her needs.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by karne 

Does your dd know that she has an IEP?  If so, has she participated at all in the conversations or planning for her educational needs?  If not, perhaps this is the time to start involving her, at least in some of the conversations, so that she has an idea that she is really the most important part of the IEP, and her feelings/wishes/input count.  It might not help the immediate problem of copying from the board, but it may begin to help her see that she has a voice in what happens with regard to her classroom experience.

Also, do you have regular parent/teacher/student conferences?  This might be a more private way for her to address her needs.

Yes, she knows she has an IEP.  She was at the meeting, but said very little.  

We do not have regular conferences.  I may initiate it, though, as I suspect her IEP is not being followed in numerous ways.

DD will not be happy with me initiating talk with her school - she very much does not want me talking to them!  I am her mother, though, and I know it is my job to make sure she is getting an appropriate education.  I wish she would participate.  Sigh.
 

[sapphire_chan]

Would it help your dd to know that her teacher is breaking the law by not following her IEP?

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan 

Would it help your dd to know that her teacher is breaking the law by not following her IEP?

Maybe.  She will think it will not matter, but by the same token she is very interested in justice so I might be able to tackle things from this POV

[CarrieMF]

  I may initiate it, though, as I suspect her IEP is not being followed in numerous ways

I would call an IEP meeting then.  You can bring this up as part of other things not being followed & then it isn't only about this 1 thing.

Is she embarrased about the IEP?  Instead of attending the meetings can she write things down & not attend them, then you can bring her up to speed on any change after.  She may be overwhelemed in the meetings & not like the attention, especially if there are alot of people in there. 

[A&A]

Have you had her vision checked lately?

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by A&A 

Have you had her vision checked lately?

 No, but I will!  Thanks for the input.

TBH I do not think this is at play, but you never know, so I will check it out.

What is probably the root is a combo of:

DD writes slowly

The instructions are in French and might very well look like Greek to my DD  (in French things are often written in a different format than in English...dates for example)

The teacher uses a lot of shorthand that she has trouble deciphering  - once again in French.  She will use  initials for books names!  (example:  A Vos Place is AVP) She uses dashes to denote pages (but it only came to me recently that DD does not know that dashes mean "to".    It makes me dizzy thinking about it

The teacher may leave stuff on the board for too little time.  DD says she does

DD may not be focusing when the teacher writes stuff on the board - it may be up for a decent amount of time, but DD is not focusing.

I have decided I will do something about this issue this week.

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/13/10 at 7:33am

[kathymuggle]

Very positive update.....

I spoke to DD after school and laid out the options.  She think ti will be better if she talk to the teacher herself and asked for a copy of the IEP.  I agreed and asked if she would be OK with me following up if it did not net the results she hoped.  She is ok with that.  We talked about timelines and she agreed to talk to the teacher before the Xmas break.

I think maybe she needed to sit with the idea for a few days (hence her initial rejection of the idea) before agreeing to it.

I am a happy camper - and fairly proud of DD!

[lorijds]

Can I point out, if the teacher doesn't know it's not enough time for your DD, how can she help her or abide by her IEP?  If she asks the class "Did everyone get that?" and dd doesn't speak up for herself, how does the teacher know?  They can't read minds.  Sometimes they guess well, sometimes they are clueless, but whatever the case, there is a responsibility of the child to advocate for herself as well (which is sounds like she is thinking about doing).

[Dar]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I think maybe she needed to sit with the idea for a few days (hence her initial rejection of the idea) before agreeing to it.

I am a happy camper - and fairly proud of DD!

Yay for both of you!

My daughter sometimes has a different response after sitting with an idea for a few days, too... I need to remember that sometimes she needs time to process. Thanks for the reminder.